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New Audio Bitstream updates are incoming for the Xbox One S

S

Samurai G0SU

Member
EDIT:
Albert Penello said:
I didn't say soon, I don't want people to infer soon. I don't know the exact date. This is how things get started :)

I know it's not a HW limitation. I know it's something the team is looking into and they are considering.

When it comes is another matter entirely, and has a lot to do with the vast catalog of features customers are asking for. So like I said, we have heard the request, we are evaluating it, and when it happens it will get announced as part of the preview program cadence like other software updates. Follow Ybarra on twitter he will jump on this I'm sure when it's ready.

Do I think it's going to happen? I do. When, I really don't know and I'm not trying to hint or infer anything about that at all.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...


I didn't see much talk about this, but we now have someone at MS directly talking about Audio Support. More specifically with bitstream. This has been a topic on multiple websites, regarding the audio output the current Xbox One sends. The Full interview is discussed in a different thread, but I want to shed light on this as people might still believe there will be no support at all regarding the audio output of the Xbox One.

Source - Albert Penello Interview with DF

Digital Foundry: From a software perspective, can you outline what 4K and HDR media support we can expect from Xbox One S on day one and what else may be in the pipeline?

Albert Penello: Beyond what we announced at E3, there is nothing new I can talk about now. But you should expect to see a number of media apps and games announced shortly. In addition, I know some fans have asked for new audio functionality including bitstream support and we're evaluating that as a possible feature in a future update.
Click to expand...

I then asked the man himself to elaborate more on this: POST

Samurai G0SU said:
HI Albert,

Thank you for chiming in on this thread to provide more information. I have a question regarding the interview you did with DF.

Actually a couple questions...

Can you provide more details about the bitstream support you mentioned? Will this mean direct bitstream, so Dolby-HD, DTS-HD, DTS-X and Dolby Atmos would be sent to the reciever to decode?

I also hope, that you mentioning this today, means it's a top feature request being worked on right now by the team.
Click to expand...

His Reply:

Albert Penello said:
If it wasn't something we were considering strongly, I would not have mentioned it. :)

It's really more a question of "when" then "if", but I've learned my lesson in trying to predict the future with certainty.

Mostly I wanted to address that it's a request that we have heard, and let people know there is no HW limitation. It's a software update and now it goes into the large bucket of feature requests that the team has to prioritize.
Click to expand...

So, the update is in the pipeline. Him directly mentioning it may shed light on the frequency we may recieve it. Hopefully, it is released soon and tested by the preview members. I'm no audiophile, but i know i would really appreciate if the xbox one supported those HD audio codecs. More specifically Dolby Atmos.

So with that in mind. Does that change anyone's mind in picking up the Xbox One S as a UHD blu-ray/streaming machine? I know i heard some people say they won't because it won't support the new audio codecs. But with this information, are you jumping back and will you now pick up one?

-----TANGENT-----

Dolby_Atmos_logo.jpg

Want to learn more about Dolby Atmos at home? Click -> HERE

Current list of Dolby Atmos Blu-Ray/Streaming titles that have been released: LINK
 
Q

Quotient

Member
Why the demand for bitstream? I assume the xbox one can handle the decode and sending a pcm stream to the reciever.
 
G

grendelrt

Member
Quotient said:
Why the demand for bitstream? I assume the xbox one can handle the decode and sending a pcm stream to the reciever.
Click to expand...

Dolby Atmos and DTSX both require bitstream to send metadata to the reciever. So currently they are incompatible and you can only send the cut down information that doesnt include overhead support.
 
S

suddenlyissoon

Member
Quotient said:
Why the demand for bitstream? I assume the xbox one can handle the decode and sending a pcm stream to the reciever.
Click to expand...

As grendelrt said, it's not really a priority until you get higher than 7.1. The fact that it has UHD video which targets Atmos & DTS:X means it should be a priority. It's sort of like only supporting 2.4ghz wireless when 5ghz is available.
 
S

Samurai G0SU

Member
Quotient said:
Why the demand for bitstream? I assume the xbox one can handle the decode and sending a pcm stream to the reciever.
Click to expand...

It does, and sends a signal received as multi channel.(using 7.1 uncompressed) However, if you are playing a Dolby atmos blu-ray, the atmos channels are not being used.


JaggedSac said:
Saying "soon" is a bit presumptuous.
Click to expand...

Given his reply on the importance and strong feelings, i wouldn't have included soon.
 
A

Adam M

Member
MS missed the opportunity to sell a decent uhd Blu ray player out of the box for a low price. Av forums are already freaked out and not buying it
 
H

Herp Derpington

Member
Yeah it's interesting they didn't already have this in the pipeline. It's not just useful for Atmos, etc. but for people wanting it for regular BD too. I'm assuming this is a licensing issue or something? Is there money that needs to change hands for this to happen that MS hasn't wanted to do?
 
I

inpHilltr8r

Member
This stuff is almost always down to prioritised use of limited resources. In this case most likely system programmers familiar with audio protocols. Hey, at least it's "when" not "if".
 
Q

Quotient

Member
grendelrt said:
Dolby Atmos and DTSX both require bitstream to send metadata to the reciever. So currently they are incompatible and you can only send the cut down information that doesnt include overhead support.
Click to expand...

suddenlyissoon said:
As grendelrt said, it's not really a priority until you get higher than 7.1. The fact that it has UHD video which targets Atmos & DTS:X means it should be a priority. It's sort of like only supporting 2.4ghz wireless when 5ghz is available.
Click to expand...

Samurai G0SU said:
It does, and sends a signal received as multi channel.(using 7.1 uncompressed) However, if you are playing a Dolby atmos blu-ray, the atmos channels are not being used.
Click to expand...

Oh. Thanks for the responses.
 
L

Lima

Member
Wonder if the will include an UHD sticker on the box then as they can't right now because bitstream of Atmos etc. is necessary for the full UHD standard.
 
3

3rdamention

Member
I cannot believe this isn't available still on Xbox One, and isn't ready at launch for One S..it's crazy....

PS3 even had bitstream, lol...


I guess it's a waiting game now, since it's in the "bucket" of all the other software requests...


As someone who has an Atmos setup, this would drive me crazy...and I don't get where the OP got that it is coming "soon", looks like there is zero timetable for this...
 
DeepEnigma

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
Side effects of rushing to get a product out, advertising features, without the product being full featured out of the box.

At least it is eventually coming.
 
B

brawly

Member
Hm, there's already 'bitstream out' if you select optical cable. Although then you have to choose DTS or Dolby Digital.
 
R

Ricerocket

Member
A bullet point feature in selling hardware is considered a drop in the bucket of feature requests? That's an interestingly odd thing to do.

Also nowhere does he say soon.
 
U

ukas

Member
DeepEnigma said:
Side effects of rushing to get a product out, advertising features, without the product being full featured out of the box.

At least it is eventually coming.
Click to expand...

I thought bitstream was supposed to be coming since the original one launched? I'm not being sarcastic either.
 
SEGAvangelist

SEGAvangelist

Gold Member
ukas said:
I thought bitstream was supposed to be coming since the original one launched? I'm not being sarcastic either.
Click to expand...

Bitstream already exists, but only for Dolby Digital 5.1 and DTS 5.1. It currently doesn't exist for everything else, though.
 
S

Samurai G0SU

Member
TheChewyWaffles said:
Oh come on OP, nowhere does Albert say "soon"
Click to expand...

Albert's intention and emphasis implies "soon" rather than next year. Soon is subjective and was okay as part of the title IMO.

If you feel this to be offensive, please PM a MOD and alter the title so it provides a clearer picture of the additional information and extra emphasis of importance he said in his reply to me. Also to even mention this feature in the interview, out of the bucket of items they currently have, kind of shows it is a top priority and will release soon.

Am i being too optomistic about a direct response to the hd audio codec issue?

EDIT: I PM'd a mod and updated the title. :)
 
J

justsomeguy

Member
Adam M said:
MS missed the opportunity to sell a decent uhd Blu ray player out of the box for a low price. Av forums are already freaked out and not buying it
Click to expand...
And as soon as support is confirmed they'll freak back in and buy it, it's still the cheapest option. So glad to see this publicly semi-announced
 
hikarutilmitt

hikarutilmitt

Member
brawly said:
Hm, there's already 'bitstream out' if you select optical cable. Although then you have to choose DTS or Dolby Digital.
Click to expand...

This is quite different. Optical can only bitstream lossy compression or LPCM2.0 due to it technically still being an analog connection that doesn't support the DRM requirements (though with newer formats it finally hit a point where the bandwidth isn't enough).

This is talking about bitstreaming over HDMI to get newer audio codecs to work.
 
Theonik

Theonik

Member
hikarutilmitt said:
This is quite different. Optical can only bitstream lossy compression or LPCM2.0 due to it technically still being an analog connection that doesn't support the DRM requirements (though with newer formats it finally hit a point where the bandwidth isn't enough).

This is talking about bitstreaming over HDMI to get newer audio codecs to work.
Click to expand...
Optical and Coax are both digital links. Not Analog. TOSLINK in its original implementation doesn't have enough bandwidth to do more than 96/24 LPCM stereo sound. You can do DD and DTS digital of course. You can get more bandwidth by increasing the cable clock.

Later optical links do just that but it's not standard, if the industry wished they could also implement DRM over optical as it is supported in SACD playback already.

There isn't really much motivation though since HDMI has taken over.

XanaviF30 said:
A fail for MS. I'm going to wait for Oppo to release their UHD BDP.
Click to expand...
I don't see how this competes with a potential player by Oppo. I'm actually in the same camp with waiting for decent players to come out so it all depends on when MS releases it or not. If decent players hit before that then there isn't that much point. But I don't see it as an either or situation. It's a temp solution.
 
A

Albert Penello

Member
I didn't say soon, I don't want people to infer soon. I don't know the exact date. This is how things get started :)

I know it's not a HW limitation. I know it's something the team is looking into and they are considering.

When it comes is another matter entirely, and has a lot to do with the vast catalog of features customers are asking for. So like I said, we have heard the request, we are evaluating it, and when it happens it will get announced as part of the preview program cadence like other software updates. Follow Ybarra on twitter he will jump on this I'm sure when it's ready.

Do I think it's going to happen? I do. When, I really don't know and I'm not trying to hint or infer anything about that at all.
 
A

Adam M

Member
justsomeguy said:
And as soon as support is confirmed they'll freak back in and buy it, it's still the cheapest option. So glad to see this publicly semi-announced
Click to expand...

I guess yeah. Somebody at the blu-ray.com forum said that the picture quality is as good as with the Samsung 4K player. So only the lossless audio is missing, if MS fix this in 2 months then they are still cool.
I'm about to pick a 4K player and I don't have Xbox at all so I really want this to be good :)
 
T

The Wraith

Member
Does that mean Overwatch will get Atmos support for Headphones like on the PC if Blizzard patches it in? That would be fucking sweet!
 
S

Stinkles

Clothed, sober, cooperative
Adam M said:
I guess yeah. Somebody at the blu-ray.com forum said that the picture quality is as good as with the Samsung 4K player. So only the lossless audio is missing, if MS fix this in 2 months then they are still cool.
I'm about to pick a 4K player and I don't have Xbox at all so I really want this to be good :)
Click to expand...

Giant Caveat: I work at MS

But...

I couldn't imagine myself getting a standalone player unless it was like, some kind of Oppo deluxe thing. I'm a mild AV enthusiast. The lfexibility, price and extensibility of the Xbone S kinda blew my mind. Even as a corporate drone/shill.

I got mine from Amazon last night and did a bunch of testing on HDR and pic quality - Mad Max and this thing: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01DX0NCY4/?tag=neogaf0e-20

I really wanted to get a 1:1 4K digital "film" to get a look at the native experience (if someone has a good reccomendation, let me know), but both of the above were pretty fantastic references. HDR is just blwoing my mind - I think people think about it like, "oh the contrast and depth of color is going to be great" - but the real benefit, IMO, is that there's way more information in the image - the fidelity of a brass plaque on the train is increased because the color gamut is showing you more detail, not from resolution but from "real world" spectra.

Running it on new Sony 65 inch 4K set (with HDR).

XanaviF30 said:
A fail for MS. I'm going to wait for Oppo to release their UHD BDP.
Click to expand...

I don't know how you came to that conclusion based on the thread title. Like, I 100% get that it would have been ideal to have it now, and 100% agree you can categorize that as a miss, but it's coming, so I'm confused by your chronology and price point comparison.
 
A

Adam M

Member
Albert Penello said:
I didn't say soon, I don't want people to infer soon. I don't know the exact date. This is how things get started :)

I know it's not a HW limitation. I know it's something the team is looking into and they are considering.

When it comes is another matter entirely, and has a lot to do with the vast catalog of features customers are asking for. So like I said, we have heard the request, we are evaluating it, and when it happens it will get announced as part of the preview program cadence like other software updates. Follow Ybarra on twitter he will jump on this I'm sure when it's ready.

Do I think it's going to happen? I do. When, I really don't know and I'm not trying to hint or infer anything about that at all.
Click to expand...

MS promoted the console as a fully featured 4K Blu-ray player (at least in the interviews) so it should be capable to give us lossless audio because what's the point of watching a nice picture with not good audio :)

Stinkles said:
Giant Caveat: I work at MS

But...

I couldn't imagine myself getting a standalone player unless it was like, some kind of Oppo deluxe thing. I'm a mild AV enthusiast. The lfexibility, price and extensibility of the Xbone S kinda blew my mind. Even as a corporate drone/shill.

I got mine from Amazon last night and did a bunch of testing on HDR and pic quality - Mad Max and this thing: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01DX0NCY4/?tag=neogaf0e-20

I really wanted to get a 1:1 4K digital "film" to get a look at the native experience (if someone has a good reccomendation, let me know), but both of the above were pretty fantastic references. HDR is just blwoing my mind - I think people think about it like, "oh the contrast and depth of color is going to be great" - but the real benefit, IMO, is that there's way more information in the image - the fidelity of a brass plaque on the train is increased because the color gamut is showing you more detail, not from resolution but from "real world" spectra.

Running it on new Sony 65 inch 4K set (with HDR).



I don't know how you came to that conclusion based on the thread title. Like, I 100% get that it would have been ideal to have it now, and 100% agree you can categorize that as a miss, but it's coming, so I'm confused by your chronology and price point comparison.
Click to expand...

I also like quality stuff and I know as well that the stand alone player is better but this Xbox One S is a really good deal but the lack of lossless audio is a turn off :/

Don't even mention Oppo, they will never make low end player only high end so if their 4K player will hit the market it will be a high end and I don't wanna spend $1000+ for a player :D
 
S

Samurai G0SU

Member
Albert Penello said:
I didn't say soon, I don't want people to infer soon. I don't know the exact date. This is how things get started :)

I know it's not a HW limitation. I know it's something the team is looking into and they are considering.

When it comes is another matter entirely, and has a lot to do with the vast catalog of features customers are asking for. So like I said, we have heard the request, we are evaluating it, and when it happens it will get announced as part of the preview program cadence like other software updates. Follow Ybarra on twitter he will jump on this I'm sure when it's ready.

Do I think it's going to happen? I do. When, I really don't know and I'm not trying to hint or infer anything about that at all.
Click to expand...

I added this into the OP, ill message a MOD to change the title.

Soon is too strong of a word :( ...
 
NeOak

NeOak

Member
Stinkles said:
I really wanted to get a 1:1 4K digital "film" to get a look at the native experience (if someone has a good reccomendation, let me know), but both of the above were pretty fantastic references. HDR is just blwoing my mind - I think people think about it like, "oh the contrast and depth of color is going to be great" - but the real benefit, IMO, is that there's way more information in the image - the fidelity of a brass plaque on the train is increased because the color gamut is showing you more detail, not from resolution but from "real world" spectra.
Click to expand...

I think http://realorfake4k.com can help with a list of true 4K movies.
 
G

garbagejuicer

Neo Member
Adam M said:
MS promoted the console as a fully featured 4K Blu-ray player (at least in the interviews) so it should be capable to give us lossless audio because what's the point of watching a nice picture with not good audio :)



I also like quality stuff and I know as well that the stand alone player is better but this Xbox One S is a really good deal but the lack of lossless audio is a turn off :/
Click to expand...

It does output lossless audio. Uncompressed 5.1/7.1 is lossless audio.

Dolby TrueHD/DTS Master are proprietary versions of lossless audio that save space on the disc. The X1 is decoding the stream and outputting the signal to your receiver. If the X1 could bitstream, the decoding would be handled by your receiver instead. The result is exactly the same, with the exception of Dolby Atmos and DTS:X.

I am the only person besides my Dad that I've ever known to have a 7.1/7.2 setup. The amount of people that not only have a 4k TV, but also have a 4K/Atmos/DTSX capable receiver, and then also have a 9.2 or above speaker setup has to be minuscule. They need to add bitstream, but it shouldn't be a deal breaker for the majority of people.
 
F

family_guy

Member
The system is 3 years old and they couldn't have done this before? I don't take his statement as a certainty of anything.
 
A

Adam M

Member
garbagejuicer said:
It does output lossless audio. Uncompressed 5.1/7.1 is lossless audio.

Dolby TrueHD/DTS Master are proprietary versions of lossless audio that save space on the disc. The X1 is decoding the stream and outputting the signal to your receiver. If the X1 could bitstream, the decoding would be handled by your receiver instead. The result is exactly the same, with the exception of Dolby Atmos and DTS:X.

I am the only person besides my Dad that I've ever known to have a 7.1/7.2 setup. The amount of people that not only have a 4k TV, but also have a 4K/Atmos/DTSX capable receiver, and then also have a 9.2 or above speaker setup has to be minuscule. They need to add bitstream, but it shouldn't be a deal breaker for the majority of people.
Click to expand...
Ah, then it's cool and I'm in :D all I need is lossless audio, thanks the reply
 
C

coolbrys

Member
garbagejuicer said:
It does output lossless audio. Uncompressed 5.1/7.1 is lossless audio.

Dolby TrueHD/DTS Master are proprietary versions of lossless audio that save space on the disc. The X1 is decoding the stream and outputting the signal to your receiver. If the X1 could bitstream, the decoding would be handled by your receiver instead. The result is exactly the same, with the exception of Dolby Atmos and DTS:X.

I am the only person besides my Dad that I've ever known to have a 7.1/7.2 setup. The amount of people that not only have a 4k TV, but also have a 4K/Atmos/DTSX capable receiver, and then also have a 9.2 or above speaker setup has to be minuscule. They need to add bitstream, but it shouldn't be a deal breaker for the majority of people.
Click to expand...

I would say I'm the most technologically inclined out of all my friends and family, and I have a similar experience - I know no one with 7.1. I myself can only use 5.1 due to how the room is set up. I fully understand those who need Atmos/DTSX passing up on the X1-S, but for the vast majority of us, this isn't a huge deal. It would be nice as I've been eyeing Atmos recently, but I have to upgrade my reciever and get more speakers first, which will take me a while. I hope consumers educate themselves on the differences and see that the X1-S is an amazing deal for what it is. I'm sure loving having my UHD player being built into my main TV box, as I run everything through my Xbox. It's really nice!
 
C

CharlesDangus

Member
Stinkles said:
Giant Caveat: I work at MS

But...

I couldn't imagine myself getting a standalone player unless it was like, some kind of Oppo deluxe thing. I'm a mild AV enthusiast. The lfexibility, price and extensibility of the Xbone S kinda blew my mind. Even as a corporate drone/shill.

I got mine from Amazon last night and did a bunch of testing on HDR and pic quality - Mad Max and this thing: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01DX0NCY4/?tag=neogaf0e-20

I really wanted to get a 1:1 4K digital "film" to get a look at the native experience (if someone has a good reccomendation, let me know), but both of the above were pretty fantastic references. HDR is just blwoing my mind - I think people think about it like, "oh the contrast and depth of color is going to be great" - but the real benefit, IMO, is that there's way more information in the image - the fidelity of a brass plaque on the train is increased because the color gamut is showing you more detail, not from resolution but from "real world" spectra.

Running it on new Sony 65 inch 4K set (with HDR).



I don't know how you came to that conclusion based on the thread title. Like, I 100% get that it would have been ideal to have it now, and 100% agree you can categorize that as a miss, but it's coming, so I'm confused by your chronology and price point comparison.
Click to expand...


Do you mean "digital film" as in shot with digital cinema cameras or as in a digital copy that comes as close to the fidelity of an exhibition print as possible?
 
S

sector4

Member
Damn, I just bought a 5.1.4 set up on the weekend, I don't know why but I assumed the XB1 would support Atmos, I thought it would have been a part of the 4K Blu Ray spec.

Is there currently a 4K player that supports Atmos?
 
J

jstevenson

Sailor Stevenson
First thing - Stinkles and others are right. HDR is a game changer when it comes to 4K. The combination of that extra resolution, and the increased color gamut, is a big enough jump to warrant it.

If you've picked up an Xbox S and you have an HDR set, get the Revenant UHD and your mind will be blown.

Once bitstream audio is added, you'll be in really good shape. The only major issue facing the Xbox One S, is that it only has one HDMI out. A large majority of receivers on the market won't support 4K / HDR (also, watch your cables... older HDMI cables may not support if it's 4K/HDR + audio).

Stand alone players (well the one that's out, but other near term ones) - get around this by having an HDMI out just for audio. So you can send the audio to the receiver and the image directly to the TV set.

If you don't have that type of receiver anyway, you're going to end up sending your Xbox One S audio via optical and in whatever format optical supports while your 4K/HDR video goes straight to the display.

It's kind of a tricky point on all the hardware side - HDR supporting TVs, receivers, and content are all in a bit of flux (I know I'm not quite ready to replace my high-end receiver until the right 4k/HDR options are better established on the audio end). So just keep those factors in mind when evaluating.
 
G

garbagejuicer

Neo Member
sector4 said:
Damn, I just bought a 5.1.4 set up on the weekend, I don't know why but I assumed the XB1 would support Atmos, I thought it would have been a part of the 4K Blu Ray spec.

Is there currently a 4K player that supports Atmos?
Click to expand...

I would say remember its the receiver that needs to support Atmos, not the player. The Atmos data is matrixed into the regular TrueHD stream, much like Pro Logic II was encoded into a stereo signal back in the day. Your receiver will then decode the stream and direct the audio based on whichever speaker setup you have.

All you need is a player that will send the raw audio signal to your receiver, which to be honest has been a standard feature for Bluray players for awhile. The last time I remember it being an issue was the first HD-DVD players...
 
C

CharlesDangus

Member
Ironically the material that will gain the most out of a UHD remaster is stuff that was shot long before the dawn of 4K digital cinematography, especially material with limited or no use of CGI. The UHD BD Ghostbusters releases are supposed to be great, Labyrinth is getting a UHD release in September. A lot of recent standard BD releases were accompanied by new 4K remasters of the original elements for posterity and a better quality downsample to 1080p, so there should be much less work involved to push out UHD discs (other than mixing for HDR etc.). Here's to hoping that a UHD BD drive in a mass market device pushes adoption of the format.


As an aside I think it's hilarious that we could potentially see mind blowing 4K remasters of the original unaltered Star Wars trilogy while George Lucas with all his forward technological thinking filmed episodes 2 and 3 entirely with primitive 1080p digital cinema cameras.
 
X

Xion86

Member
This is great to hear, finally some upgrade on the audio front. Good stuff!!
It's funny as this was the one thing I was complaining about with the Xbox One S to my friend, the fact that it's lacking in this area but claims to be a Blu-Ray / UHD player.
 
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