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Had to Shut Down a Co-Worker on the Subject of Slavery

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Let me tell you about it because it's been bothering me all week.

I'm a System Admin at a local hospital in SC and I got ambushed into a political conversation that ended on the subject of slavery... and I had to end it there.

So earlier this week I was ambushed by a wiring contractor here at the hospital. He busted in my office and said "Let's talk politics!" It's pretty laid back here, so talking about politics isn't frowned upon. My boss loves debating and discussing politics as does a lot of other people here.

Well, when the contractor came in to talk, I was busy working on a project. I told him as much but he said, "I have a solution for our health care problem." I rolled my eyes but I had to know what he thought. It basically boiled down to taking the taxes from home owners and flooding it into a national health care system. We argued about it for 30 minutes why this wouldn't work until his real points started coming across.

He said he honestly believes the government shouldn't mandate healthcare, but I argued that the prices of health care in the US are astronomical and most poor people and minorities needed a leg up to get the healthcare they needed. Insurance companies are in it for the money, it's a gamble for them. They need to be told to cover people who need it and not at an exorbitant price. His response is life isn't fair.


Then, out of nowhere, he started talking about slavery!

Contractor: You know, the indentured servants were slaves too. They had it pretty bad.
Me: They weren't slaves. Weren't even close.
Contractor: Are you serious? They couldn't vote, they were discriminated against, they had to do work for free.
Me: Did they breed them to make super slaves?
Contractor: Huh?
Me: Slave owners would take the biggest male slave and the biggest female slave and breed them together to make super slaves.
Contractor: (((Silence)))
My coworkers: (((silence)))
Me: Indentured servants weren't slaves. They weren't stolen from their homes. They weren't split up from their families, never to see them again. Once they served their time, they're done.

He left after that because we had a meeting. But he didn't have anything to say after that. It bothers me that people really believe this shit. They love revisionist history.

I'm one of few black people in the group by the way. So imagine how fun this is for me.
 

Eidan

Member
Where the hell is this narrative about indentured servitude being equal to slavery coming from. I mean, the US education system fails in many ways, but that was a difference that was well made when I was a kid. Is it some alt-right YouTube fuckery?
 
D

Deleted member 17706

Unconfirmed Member
Where the hell is this narrative about indentured servitude being equal to slavery coming from. I mean, the US education system fails in many ways, but that was a difference that was well made when I was a kid. Is it some alt-right YouTube fuckery?

I'm 31 and I remember idiots parroting some version of it even when I was a kid. How the Irish were slaves, too! As if having your freedom limited in exchange for something was the same as being stolen from your home and dragged across the Atlantic, robbed of your language, family, friends, and culture, only to be sold into a life of brutal forced labor with no end or hope in sight.
 

tirminyl

Member
Where the hell is this narrative about indentured servitude being equal to slavery coming from. I mean, the US education system fails in many ways, but that was a difference that was well made when I was a kid. Is it some alt-right YouTube fuckery?

It's either not talked about or severely downplayed to where people argue that "they didn't have it bad" or they were "immigrants looking for jobs".

If you don't teach it, you won't know it.
 

SL128

Member
Slavery doesn't have to be chattel slavery to be slavery.

Don't downplay the evils of slavery just because it's not the worst form of slavery.
 

norm9

Member
Indentured servitude sucked bUT slavery is on a whole another level.

Eta- strict workplaces aren't great, but lax professional standards at the office leads to nonsense like this. This is why I try to keep quiet at work.
 

Infinite

Member
Where the hell is this narrative about indentured servitude being equal to slavery coming from. I mean, the US education system fails in many ways, but that was a difference that was well made when I was a kid. Is it some alt-right YouTube fuckery?
People been saying stuff like this before alt-right gamergate mother fuckers came to be. It's basically an extension of "the Irish had it rough too!" And my favorite "but Africans was apart of the transatlantic slave trade too!"
 

ShyMel

Member
Where the hell is this narrative about indentured servitude being equal to slavery coming from. I mean, the US education system fails in many ways, but that was a difference that was well made when I was a kid. Is it some alt-right YouTube fuckery?

Well considering there is that one history book that calls slaves immigrant workers or something, I am unfortunately not surprised that many schools did not properly explain the difference between indentured servants and slaves.

Sorry to hear that happened to you OP. I just can't understand why someone would think slavery is something okay to bring up at a job in that way.
 

Alucrid

Banned
Where the hell is this narrative about indentured servitude being equal to slavery coming from. I mean, the US education system fails in many ways, but that was a difference that was well made when I was a kid. Is it some alt-right YouTube fuckery?

it lets them dismiss the past history of slavery in america while lessening whatever guilt they feel about it
 
Where the hell is this narrative about indentured servitude being equal to slavery coming from. I mean, the US education system fails in many ways, but that was a difference that was well made when I was a kid. Is it some alt-right YouTube fuckery?

There is a LOT of revisionist history coming from southern whites who want to excuse what the confederacy did.

The indentured servant business is right up there with the concept that the confederacy was fighting for "states rights" and not to keep enslaving people by any means necessary.
 

Boke1879

Member
Yea when I was in school. there was a distinct difference taught between the two.

This dude probably knew better but you know these types of people are. They want to try and "downplay" and aspect. "Well you guys weren't the only slaves."
 

Armaros

Member
There is a LOT of revisionist history coming from southern whites who want to excuse what the confederacy did.

The indentured servant business is right up there with the concept that the confederacy was fighting for "states rights" and not to keep enslaving people by any means necessary.

Especially when you considering the actual Confederate Consitition that forced all joining states to keep Slavery legal forever.

Such States Rights.
 

Bronx-Man

Banned
I was taught in school that indenture servitutude is something you can get out of when your debt's been paid, slavery is some shit you could never get out of.
 
I would put a sign on my desk that said, "No time for bigots".

D7RidvF.png


But ya, I take the same approach you did when people say ignorant shit at work. Not up for discussion, just blast them with fact and walk away.
 
Well, in a strict sense many institutions and forms of indentured servitude are a form of slavery, and thus is often one of the most commonly referred to in historical contexts. So when say, a Roman or Greek source refers to a 'slave', they may be referring to what we'd consider an indentured servant, rather than someone enslaved from a war.

Where this breaks down on your coworker's end is in assuming that because indentured servitude can be slavery, it automatically was, and therefore, can be equated in condition to all other forms of slavery. Anyone with any sense of the nature of chattel slavery in the context of the United States of America realises that this is not the case. Whatever someone in indentured servitude may have faced, and whatever the reasons for being in such servituse, they almost invariably still had better prospects than someone with a higher melanin count.

Edit:
Where the hell is this narrative about indentured servitude being equal to slavery coming from. I mean, the US education system fails in many ways, but that was a difference that was well made when I was a kid. Is it some alt-right YouTube fuckery?

Often it results from an attempt to try and downplay the suffering faced by Africans in the Americas by rendering it into a common history, simultaneously diminishing current hardships as a result of the conditions they were placed under. Ie, if white people were 'slaves' too (in only the broader sense, rather than the nature of their servitude and social standing), then black people have less right to complain of the discrimination they face.
 

Derwind

Member
Talking politics where I work is just asking for stupidity and ignorance.

You start to realize how backwards people are concerning race, sex, gender...ect.

Not even worth the stress.

I have a coworker & supervisor (I believe) that are both facing a lawsuit for accusations harrasment in the workplace & accusations of racism.

So yeah, talking about anything outside of the weather is not worth it, even then you have crazies that deny climate change right then and there.
 

Gattsu25

Banned
Where the hell is this narrative about indentured servitude being equal to slavery coming from. I mean, the US education system fails in many ways, but that was a difference that was well made when I was a kid. Is it some alt-right YouTube fuckery?
Was he a Bioshock Infinite player? That game seemed to have botched the subject by equating their struggles and is probably the first time a lot of Americans even became aware of indentured servants.
 

ZOONAMI

Junior Member
Where the hell is this narrative about indentured servitude being equal to slavery coming from. I mean, the US education system fails in many ways, but that was a difference that was well made when I was a kid. Is it some alt-right YouTube fuckery?

It's a preposterous reprehensible statement that they think is somehow an argument along the lines "white people were slaves too. It must not have been all that bad."
 
Indentured servitude was slavery, look up the indian indeture system and the way they were treated in South Africa. The only reason why that shit was "voluntary" was because the people accepting were living in poverty anyways and many of the companies they signed up with straight up lied. Anti-slave organisations were fighting for it to be abolished.

Not sure exactly why there needs to be a competition between the two, they are both crimes against humanity.
 
D

Deleted member 17706

Unconfirmed Member
Slavery doesn't have to be chattel slavery to be slavery.

Don't downplay the evils of slavery just because it's not the worst form of slavery.

Nothing wrong with talking about the evils of indentured servitude, but the guy started out by directly comparing it to African slavery.
 

SL128

Member
I was taught in school that indenture servitutude is something you can get out of when your debt's been paid, slavery is some shit you could never get out of.
In reality, indentured servants were almost never paid well enough to buy freedom. The point of the system was to have de facto slaves. Being less repugnant than chattel slavery doesn't make the system less repugnant.
Nothing wrong with talking about the evils of indentured servitude, but the guy started out by directly comparing it to African slavery.
The guy was probably ignorant and unaware, but chattel slavery probably would have developed differently without the existence of indentured servitude.
 
I used to get variants of this in middle school. I got marked off for concluding that immigrant laborers in the North had it better off than the slaves. I guess I didn't appreciate the value of enslaved people getting free food and lodging.

A huge chunk of Southerners decided to frame themselves as the true victims.
 
Yea when I was in school. there was a distinct difference taught between the two.

This dude probably knew better but you know these types of people are. They want to try and "downplay" and aspect. "Well you guys weren't the only slaves."

This is exactly what it is. An attempt to turn the struggles of Black Americans into some kind of moral failing.

Push back on this shit whenever you see it, give no quarter. Nazis are supposedly the epitome of evil and Hitler was Satan, but somehow the US enslaving and killing blacks for 300 years straight, and virtually completely exterminating native Americans is "not that bad" and confederates were just misunderstood schlubs fighting for their home states.

Fuck you, your great grandpa buregard wasn't misunderstood, grandpa buregard was war criminal trash.
 
Many forms of indentured servitude were unjust and evil by our standards, but the American system of slavery was probably one of the worst systems of slavery in the world especially by the 19th century when it was made illegal to get out of it or to free your slaves.

I don't get how you arguing against your coworker's idea of single payer health care turned into a discussion on slavery.
 
Indentured servitude was slavery, look up the indian indeture system and the way they were treated in South Africa. The only reason why that shit was "voluntary" was because the people accepting were living in poverty anyways and many of the companies they signed up with straight up lied. Anti-slave organisations were fighting for it to be abolished.

Not sure exactly why there needs to be a competition between the two, they are both crimes against humanity.
Not in the context of the discussion OP was having with his co-worker.
 

Aaron

Member
First you should have told him that the whole reason society exists is life isn't fair, and he's being supported in countless ways while denying similar support to others.
 

Breads

Banned
Where the hell is this narrative about indentured servitude being equal to slavery coming from. I mean, the US education system fails in many ways, but that was a difference that was well made when I was a kid. Is it some alt-right YouTube fuckery?

Alt education.
 

Bronx-Man

Banned
Was he a Bioshock Infinite player? That game seemed to have botched the subject by equating their struggles and is probably the first time a lot of Americans even became aware of indentured servants.
There's a lot of things about race that Bioshock Infinite botches.
 

Gattsu25

Banned
Yea when I was in school. there was a distinct difference taught between the two.

This dude probably knew better but you know these types of people are. They want to try and "downplay" and aspect. "Well you guys weren't the only slaves."

I went to school in the north (Long Island) and down south (Florida) and neither mentioned indentured servants.

The school I went to in the south (Sebastian River High School) didn't even teach about slavery. Like, the word "slavery" literally wasn't even in the index at the back of the American History textbook.
 
Just an aside but the whole "super slaves" thing is actually a huge aspect of White Supremacist propaganda and is scientifically inaccurate. Slave owners did attempt to do this but human biology doesn't work that way, we're not horses.

The reason why the myth that slavery resulted in stronger African Americans is propagated by White Supremacy is to continue the spread of the idea that slavery was mutually beneficial and AAs owe their athletic dominance to these practices. Jimmy the Greek was fired primarily because saying this is not just racist it's also factually incorrect.
 

EBE

Member
i dont think the selective breeding thing is necessarily true. ive not read of any instances in the colonial latin american context to suggest this was very widespread. in fact, there do not appear to have been any (or rather many) restrictions on who slaves could wed or have sex with. i dont believe there was a strong ethic of eugenic breeding in either the latin or north american context.
 
Just an aside but the whole "super slaves" thing is actually a huge aspect of White Supremacist propaganda and is scientifically inaccurate. Slave owners did attempt to do this but human biology doesn't work that way, we're not horses.

The reason why the myth that slavery resulted in stronger African Americans is propagated by White Supremacy is to continue the spread of the idea that slavery was mutually beneficial and AAs owe their athletic dominance to these practices. Jimmy the Greek was fired primarily because saying this is not just racist it's also factually incorrect.

i dont think the selective breeding thing is necessarily true. ive not read of any instances in the colonial latin american context to suggest this was very widespread. in fact, there do not appear to have been any (or rather many) restrictions on who slaves could wed or have sex with. i dont believe there was a strong ethic of eugenic breeding in either the latin or north american context.

It's a tricky thing.

After all, for the bulk of time that slavery existed in the Americas, eugenics wasn't even an idea, because genetics itself didn't exist as branch of science, let alone pseudo-science. Sure, similar to the cattle that chattel slavery is named for, some slaveowners believed their slaves could be 'bred' for superiority, but it was more an individual thing than a widespread practice.

On the marriage front, a lot of that was 'on paper' vs 'in reality'. In many instances, no, there weren't laws against slaves marrying who they wanted, so long as their owners permitted it. In most instances the slaveowner wouldn't care because hey, free slaves, don't have to buy more from the market, but if a slave wanted to marry a free white person, you can almost certainly bet the slaveowner - nevermind wider society - would object.
 

TheTurboFD

Member
I don't ever discuss politics at work as it never ends well. One of the other admins in my company tried discussing how the moon landing was fake. I got up and left as I know this wasn't going to go anywhere lol.
 
People been saying stuff like this before alt-right gamergate mother fuckers came to be. It's basically an extension of "the Irish had it rough too!" And my favorite "but Africans was apart of the transatlantic slave trade too!"

It's the "All Lives Matter" thing, taking "shitty thing that happened to one group to squelch defense of a group that got it even worse". Has this side effect of making any mention of the former shitty thing be tied up in bigotry. :\
 

HStallion

Now what's the next step in your master plan?
Where the hell is this narrative about indentured servitude being equal to slavery coming from. I mean, the US education system fails in many ways, but that was a difference that was well made when I was a kid. Is it some alt-right YouTube fuckery?

Certain White Folk are trying to play the oppression Olympics and want a handicap to catch up with everyone else.
 

Boney

Banned
Well, in a strict sense many institutions and forms of indentured servitude are a form of slavery, and thus is often one of the most commonly referred to in historical contexts. So when say, a Roman or Greek source refers to a 'slave', they may be referring to what we'd consider an indentured servant, rather than someone enslaved from a war.

Where this breaks down on your coworker's end is in assuming that because indentured servitude can be slavery, it automatically was, and therefore, can be equated in condition to all other forms of slavery. Anyone with any sense of the nature of chattel slavery in the context of the United States of America realises that this is not the case. Whatever someone in indentured servitude may have faced, and whatever the reasons for being in such servituse, they almost invariably still had better prospects than someone with a higher melanin count.

Edit:

Often it results from an attempt to try and downplay the suffering faced by Africans in the Americas by rendering it into a common history, simultaneously diminishing current hardships as a result of the conditions they were placed under. Ie, if white people were 'slaves' too (in only the broader sense, rather than the nature of their servitude and social standing), then black people have less right to complain of the discrimination they face.
Right on the money on all accounts. Today we still have slave wages and debt peonage but there's important historical conditions that make slavery have specific characteristics to it, being one of or the most brutal form of slavery in the past 500 years or so
 
It's the "All Lives Matter" thing, taking "shitty thing that happened to one group to squelch defense of a group that got it even worse". Has this side effect of making any mention of the former shitty thing be tied up in bigotry. :

Yep, because it links a specific instance to a more abstract idea, and assuming all things under that abstract must be equal. Challenging that assertion of equal circumstances is seen as a challenge on a supposedly obvious truth, therefore the specific instance they brought in under the abstract must not be true at all.
 
Wasn't "slavery" in ancient Rome closer to indentured servitude than what we would consider slavery in that it wasn't based on race, you could be freed (and once you were freed, there wasn't much social stigma), and a lot of times it was based on owing a debt?
 
Public schools teach that stuff. They say it's not slavery because they were free to go but, worked for free. But, what Africans went through was straight slavery. I had gotten into a conversation about this recently. I never liked the idea of indentured servitude and the servants in the images were always African. Always seemed like another lie.
 
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