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From Stage to Screen: How fast do conference games release? (PS4, Xbox One)

Introduction

With E3 not many weeks away, of course there's talk about what new games will be announced there, and which ones we'll see return from last year. The lengthy development times and repeated public showcases of games this generation have been discussed at length on GAF.

Which made me curious. Exactly how long has it been taking games to come out after they're presented? Several major points appear to be generally agreed upon:


  • Some games seem to be revealed too early, as evidenced by CG trailers when gameplay isn't ready
  • Games get shown for multiple years before they actually come out
  • The AAA blockbusters are especially prone to lengthy dev time
  • Sony is worse about announcing early than Microsoft or Nintendo
All that certainly matches my personal impressions. But I haven't seen any solid measurements to support them, so I decided to collect the data myself. I chose to focus on PS4 and Xbox One. I think Nintendo's business trajectory has been too different to be comparable: numerous Direct videos instead of conferences, a much greater emphasis on handheld products, and of course a generational transition from one console to another. I apologize for their non-inclusion (though I'd love to see the results if someone else were to examine them).

Method

I watched the unedited streams of every major conference for PS4 and Xbox One from 2013 through 2016. This included the reveal events, as well as all keynotes from E3, Gamescom, Paris Games Week, Tokyo Game Show, and the PlayStation Experience. I counted each title shown, the first time they appeared.

For these purposes, "shown" means displayed footage with an associated title. This includes videos showing multiple games one after the other, but does not include sizzle reels (i.e. intercut dramatic shots of unlabeled games, assembled into a single trailer with a hype soundtrack). I also didn't count logos presented without video, or mentions by a speaker with nothing onscreen.

By "the first time they appeared", I don't mean only new game announcements. Even if a title is already known about before being shown at a conference, they're still part of the time lag between initial formal presentation and final release. However, if the same game appeared on both Microsoft and Sony's stages, I only counted the first showing.

Results

Here are the results of my survey (all data as of May 1, 2017). The top row for each platform lists the total number of titles shown, followed by the counts and percentages that have released, are still being worked on, or have been officially canceled. The second row is the data we were looking for: the average, median, modal, and maximum intervals between presentation and release (or cancellation).

msoftally2jqv.png

sonyallr4syn.png


Immediately, one fact leaps out: Microsoft has a longer average interval to release than Sony, not shorter. This is a completely counterintuitive result, directly contradictory to what I expected (and I suspect, what most others would expect). And it's not just a few long-term titles dragging the average up: Microsoft's median and modal intervals are also higher.

It's important to note that the real intervals between presentation and release will be longer than listed above. That's because recently-shown games can only have short gaps, even though in the fullness of time they may release long after being presented (e.g. The Last of Us Part II currently has a 5 month interval, though its final value will be much higher). Since Sony presents so many more games, this effect will be bigger for them. Could that explain the weird results?

No, it can't. I chopped off two years of conferences, pretending that E3 2015 was the last time either platform presented any games. This did reduce the gap (and as predicted raise both values), but Sony still remained lower:14.87 months versus Microsoft's 15.49 months. Persistently, for years, Xbox One games take longer to come out on average, the midpoint of its release intervals is longer than PS4's, and its most common interval is more than twice as long as PS4's.

How can the mismatch between these facts and public opinion be explained? Well, I have more data and analysis to share. But I don't want to just infodump and cut off discussion before it even begins. Plus, there could easily be things I haven't thought of which you'll hit on.

So there's a start, GAF. I'd love to hear your comments and questions.
 

wapplew

Member
MS started the short stage to screen approach last year, maybe we'll need a few more years to get the real result.
Below and Cuphead skew MS average score for sure.
 

Toki767

Member
I was always curious about this.

General consensus has always been, for some reason, the complete opposite.

I do think what helps Sony's average is the sheer amount of indie/Japanese games that rarely miss their targets and often get shown when there are 6 months or so left till release.

I don't know whether it's fair or not, but a better comparison may just be first party titles.
 
D

Deleted member 465307

Unconfirmed Member
Could you post your data with all the games and their time to release? Perhaps putting them in a Google Sheets file? One theory I have is that more of Sony's biggest titles take a long time to release after being shown so people remember them, while it's more of Xbox's smaller titles that take their time.

I like your idea that it could have to do with the sheer volume of titles. I seem to recall Sony having a few "we're announcing and releasing it now" moments.
 

F4r0_Atak

Member
What games on the Sony side were canceled?

I am wondering the same question... :/

EDIT:

Last time I checked, these projects were announced at Sony's previous E3s but they were never properly cancelled...

• Deep Down
• Agent
• ?
• ?
 

F4r0_Atak

Member
At which point the thread will derail into a discussion of whether certain games are first party...

In the Sony First-Party thread, we came up with this:

• If the game is developed and/or published by SIE, it's first-party whether or not the game was developed by 3rd (2nd?) party studio like Insomniac Games or From Software.
• If the game is developed and/or published by another studio/publisher, it's third-party. (e.g. Dragon Quest Builders)
 

Phamit

Member
You analysis includes every Multiplatform title and from my understanding people think about First Party or exclusive titles, when they talk about Sony Conferences and the games that take a long time to release
 
What games on the Sony side were canceled?

I can't think of any other than possibly the Modern Zombie Taxi and Deep Down. However both have not officially been confirmed as cancelled yet.

Sony did drop publishing rights of a few games such as What Remains of Edith Finch, Rime, and Wattam but they are still coming out. Funomena is publishing 2 former Sony Santa Monica games(What Remains of Edith Finch & Wattam) so their is still a chance they might be publishing Modern Zombie Taxi as well which was a external Sony Santa Monica game too.
 

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
Good thread. Someone posted a list of games from Sony's e3 conference last year and all but three of the have been released. Pretty good.
 

Kieli

Member
Excellent work, OP.

The findings definitely fly contrary to my assumption. I had always been against announcing games too early, even if it's blockbuster titles like FFVII/Re and KH3. That just might be a Squeenix issue from the titles I listed, though.
 

GHG

Gold Member
Great post OP. Any chance you can publish the raw data including the list of games used for the study?
 
What games on the Sony side were canceled?
I am wondering the same question... :/
I would like to know that too
Games shown first at Sony conferences that have been canceled:
Lily Bergamot (Grasshopper Manufacture, rebooted as Let It Die)
Wonder Flick (Level-5 small-scale RPG, came out elsewhere but PS4 port canceled)
Hollowpoint (Ruffian indie shooter, still appears on their website but is "on hiatus" since late 2015 so I just called it canceled; may have been forked into their current indie shooter Fragmental. Ruffian is also assisting on Crackdown 3)
Zodiac: Orcanon Odyssey (Kabojo indie RPG came out on mobile, but PS4 port evidently canceled)

I do think what helps Sony's average is the sheer amount of indie/Japanese games that rarely miss their targets and often get shown when there are 6 months or so left till release.
Actually, the details are interesting here too. Notoriously, the exact meaning of "indie" is hard to pin down...but let's assume that I can basically correctly assess the production value of a game (at least, my categorization shouldn't be too far off). Now, let's remove all the indies from the stats I posted. Here's the result:

msoftmajor0jjwn.png

sonymajorpws6h.png



Compare to the initial stats, and you'll see that with only major games included, both platforms' intervals have gotten lower, not higher. Indie games are more likely to slip and see long delays than AAA games. This is another finding that I believe runs counter to common belief.
 
Could you post your data with all the games and their time to release?
Great post OP. Any chance you can publish the raw data including the list of games used for the study?
411 games. I hope he'll share when they were first announced (not where, cause it would be too long).
I am not going to share the raw data. All of it is publicly available, simply by watching the conferences which are posted online in their entirety. Anyone could compile the same list...but anyone didn't, I did. As with academic work, I feel that doing research in primary sources tacitly grants proprietary usage of the fruits of that labor.

I do understand the need to trust that I'm not simply inventing numbers, though. So I'm happy to answer any specific questions people have, provided they're more narrow than "tell me everything". Also, to help assure you that I've been careful and systematic about my data collection, here's a shot of (a portion of) the spreadsheet.

greybluraquun.png
 
Aww, do Nintendo too!

I'm curious for this as well, ever since that 2013 Mega Direct to try and save the WiiU their reveal to release time frame for everything after that has been less than a year for most of their games. SM3DW only had 5 months from reveal before it hit shelves. Arms is going to be 5 months as well.
 
Games shown first at Sony conferences that have been canceled:
Lily Bergamot (Grasshopper Manufacture, rebooted as Let It Die)
Wonder Flick (Level-5 small-scale RPG, came out elsewhere but PS4 port canceled)
Hollowpoint (Ruffian indie shooter, still appears on their website but is "on hiatus" since late 2015 so I just called it canceled; may have been forked into their current indie shooter Fragmental. Ruffian is also assisting on Crackdown 3)
Zodiac: Orcanon Odyssey (Kabojo indie RPG came out on mobile, but PS4 port evidently canceled)
Hmm.

I'm not sure if I'd put the onus of any of these upon Sony. Also I disagree with the notion of counting a reboot as a cancellation. That's like calling FF Versus XIII a cancelled game.
 
There are a few reasons I can think of:

1. You said you limited the titles for PS4 and Xbox One, but some PS4 games are developed across generations or has long hiatus between sequels. For example, The Last Guardian is originally a PS3 title, which has a ridiculous long gap between announcement and launch if you count the PS3 days.

2. There's the fact that many Sony E3 titles are games that are leaked or expected long before the announcement. Not only did SquareEnix tease the idea of Final Fantasy VII remake long before it's first E3 announcement, the fans are begging for it even long before. Same thing happened to Shenmu 3.

3. Many Sony games are remaster or remake of their PS3 versions. It's easier and less time consuming to do.

4. People often disregard smaller games announcements. People always said Microsoft only has Halo, Gears and Forza and these games always arrive on time. However, these huge on schedule releases eclipse other smaller titles Microsoft Published, and Microsoft tends to pick indie studios which are really small and need lots of time to finish their work(Ori, Inside...). Yet they love to announce the partnership as soon as they have a deal.
 

Paz

Member
Microsoft tends to pick indie studios which are really small and need lots of time to finish their work(Ori, Inside...). Yet they love to announce the partnership as soon as they have a deal.

Ah yes Inside, made by that tiny indie studio with a budget and team so large and capable they bought the source code to Unity and re-wrote parts of the engine.
 

David___

Banned
Good idea for a thread.

Since you went through most of their conferences is it possible to post the data when looking at first party projects only?
 
You said you limited the titles for PS4 and Xbox One, but some PS4 games are developed across generations or has long hiatus between sequels. For example, The Last Guardian is originally a PS3 title, which has a ridiculous long gap between announcement and launch if you count the PS3 days.
The Last Guardian, FF XV, and Until Dawn are the instances of this. Though I feel the multiple complete restarts on Nioh make it not apply, let's be generous and grant that title as well. Even adding in the combined 25 extra years (!) of development only takes Sony to an average of 14.08 months, versus Microsoft's 14.54.

2. There's the fact that many Sony E3 titles are games that are leaked or expected long before the announcement. Not only did SquareEnix tease the idea of Final Fantasy VII remake long before it's first E3 announcement, the fans are begging for it even long before. Same thing happened to Shenmu 3.
I can't view this as a meaningful point. Gamers were longing for Halo 5 since Halo 4 came out, Gears of War 4 since before Judgement came out, etc. Anticipation isn't confined to one side, and I see no way to accurately measure it for every single title.

3. Many Sony games are remaster or remake of their PS3 versions. It's easier and less time consuming to do.
There are 24 remasters/remakes in the Sony list (though only 8 are from PS3, the rest are older originals). If we remove them entirely, alongside also adding all the time from your point 1, we'd bring Sony's average to 15.01 months. This is finally above Microsoft...but it doesn't take into account that Ryse was originally announced for 360, or for the 3 Microsoft remaster/remakes, which would mildly raise their average. So at best we essentially have parity, which doesn't match the asserted big difference between the two platform holders.

4. People often disregard smaller games announcements. People always said Microsoft only has Halo, Gears and Forza and these games always arrive on time. However, these huge on schedule releases eclipse other smaller titles Microsoft Published, and Microsoft tends to pick indie studios which are really small and need lots of time to finish their work(Ori, Inside...). Yet they love to announce the partnership as soon as they have a deal.
As noted earlier in the thread, removing indies makes both Microsoft and Sony's numbers better, and the averages are essentially the same.
 
I really wish there were more games that capitalized on the hype of E3 and released shortly after (Within a 3 month window). I really don't know why more first party titles don't. Gauging interest and refining? Doesn't seem like the average release window typically gives enough time to drastically re-configure titles.
 

wapplew

Member
I really wish there were more games that capitalized on the hype of E3 and released shortly after (Within a 3 month window). I really don't know why more first party titles don't. Gauging interest and refining? Doesn't seem like the average release window typically gives enough time to drastically re-configure titles.

Hard to pull off short hype cycle unless you are popular IP.
Gamer need to get a firm grasp on what will they get with their $60, longer hype cycle will help that.
 
Good thread and great data analysis as always (you do great work in the NPD threads as well)!

This does run contrary to what I think many believe and I do think that was due to a select few titles impacting the perception of the whole.
 
Oh man this is tje perfect thresf to ask this. Sorry if it was asked before, but it is a question I have had before.

When Apple or Samsung unveik a piece of hardware they are usually available pretty soon. A week a month maybe. Why do you think they don't adopt this on video games?

The Switch kind of did this as release was 2 months from unveiling and it was succesful, but wouldn't it be cool if a great gane was announced and then it came put the next week.

I feel the right game would sell like crazy if done that way.
 
Amazing job OP.

Seriously this is too good just to post on GAF. You should have tried to publish it on some website to get some cash for all that hard work
 
Are you including 3rd party games shown?

That would skew the results a lot.

And, are remasters and re-releases usually presented in conferences? That would also skew the results...
 
I have made changes to the Sony numbers posted, as there were some hidden rows of duplicate games that were mistakenly being included. I apologize for any confusion, but removing these 7 titles hasn't materially affected any of the conclusions posted so far.

I don't know whether it's fair or not, but a better comparison may just be first party titles.
You analysis includes every Multiplatform title and from my understanding people think about First Party or exclusive titles, when they talk about Sony Conferences and the games that take a long time to release
Since you went through most of their conferences is it possible to post the data when looking at first party projects only?
Are you including 3rd party games shown?

That would skew the results a lot.
Here's what the comparison looks like, when only considering first-party, non-indie games.

msoftfpt7ss0.png

sonyfpiusa9.png



Here is the total list of games included.
Code:
Bloodborne
Crackdown 3
Days Gone
Dead Rising 3
Death Stranding
Detroit: Become Human
Disney Fantasia Music Evolved
Dreams
Driveclub
Fable Legends
Farpoint
Forza Horizon 2
Forza Horizon 3
Forza Motorsport 5
Forza Motorsport 6
Gears of War 4
God of War
Gran Turismo Sport
Gravity Rush 2
Gravity Rush Remastered
Halo 5: Guardians
Halo Wars 2
Halo: TMCC
Horizon: Zero Dawn
inFamous: First Light
inFamous: Second Son
Killer Instinct
Killzone: Shadow Fall
Knack
Knack 2
Little Big Planet 3
Marvel vs. Capcom Infinite
MLB 15: The Show
MLB The Show 16
MLB The Show 17
New Everybody's Golf
No Man's Sky
Phantom Dust
Project Spark
Quantum Break
Rare Replay
Ratchet & Clank
ReCore
Rez Infinite
RIGS: Mechanized Combat League
Ryse
Scalebound
Screamride
Sea of Thieves
Shangheist
Spiderman
Starblood Arena
State of Decay 2
Street Fighter V
Sunset Overdrive
Tearaway Unfolded
The Last Guardian
The Last of Us Part II
The Last of Us Remastered
The Order: 1886
Ultra Street Fighter IV
Uncharted 4
Uncharted: The Lost Legacy
Until Dawn
WiLD
Wipeout Omega Collection

And, are remasters and re-releases usually presented in conferences? That would also skew the results...
This was already addressed in an earlier post. Sony has shown many more remasters (24 versus Microsoft's 3), but removing them doesn't change the overall result. Sony's average interval would rise to about 14 months, still half a month shorter than Microsoft's.

I really wish there were more games that capitalized on the hype of E3 and released shortly after (Within a 3 month window). I really don't know why more first party titles don't.
Keep in mind that the three months after E3 aren't a very high-selling period in general. So you would have the challenge of whipping up excitement during a relative lull, in addition to the effort to cause enough hype in a short period.
 
Just the difference in games announced overall is an interesting number in and of itself.

274/130 ≈ 2.1

Jan 1st of this year Sony said they had sold 53.4 million PS4s. EA said recently that PS4 and XBO combined were at 79 million at the end of 2016. That puts XBO sell-through at the beginning of this year at 25.6 million.

53.4/25.6 ≈ 2.1

Coincidence?
 

iFirez

Member
If you're counting third party games like Below and Deep Down, aren't those games outside the control of the platform holders?

Why is this thread the place I'm learning that Below has been cancelled? I just had to read the official Wiki page... I am so sad now :(
 
Kotaku do fun pieces every year where they go look back at least years conferences and see how much was BS.
Google them, they've done it for about half a decade now.
I think they're called 'one year layer's or something similar.
 

watdaeff4

Member
Interesting work OP.

Just reading through your methods would you include what we got for Death Stranding as "shown?" As that is very unlikely to be in-game footage.
 
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