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FullMetalx117 · Sep 14, 2017

This is not a thread discussing the massive crime on humanity Germany is responsible for.

It's more so about the technological and military accomplishments of Germany during this time. Somehow, Germany alone was able to conquer majority of Europe. The country was able to hold it's own against U.K., France, USSR, AND the United States for sometime.

How?! The fact that the Germans were enraged, disgruntled, and unified surely played a part. But the Germans legitimately had some excellent scientists. They created some of the most powerful and durable tanks at the time along with other weapons. They even managed to create synthetic oil to power its war machine, since the country has no oil reserves.

Thankfully the good guys one in the end, but still its difficult to believe that a lone country was able to hold its own against 4 major world powers at the time.

Keasar · Sep 14, 2017

They did build a favourite weapon of mine.

The Schwerer Gustav 80 cm railway artillery:

7449c90282af82afd659c34c337b3144--schwerer-gustav-railway-gun.jpg

It's stupidly huge.
It requires a stupid amount of manpower.
It's stupidly slow to fire.
It requires you to build a special stupid railway system to move the damn thing.
It stupidly had negative war effort impact when comparing what it actually managed to it's cost of running.

They built two.

And I love it.

MysteryQuesadilla · Sep 14, 2017

I did a study on the battle of Stalingrad recently. While the German war machine at that time was indeed impressive for a country of their size, that lack of oil reserves and steady supply spelled doom for their operational reach. Their feared Panzer and Tiger tanks were also petrol fueled which by and larger were not as efficient as diesel engines.

nhlducks35 · Sep 14, 2017

Their outfits were great too

Thanks Hugo Boss

Soldiussnaku · Sep 14, 2017

I always found their experiments in rocket engineering and progress with the tech in planes absolutely fascinating and pretty interesting.

Sure the purpose for the tech is and always will be horrifying and the application awful, but the sheer speed of the technological progression in 5-10 years absolutely phenomenal.

GurgleBot20 · Sep 14, 2017

"Incredible meaning large or immense, we use it in the pejorative sense!"

Kill3r7 · Sep 14, 2017

Same can be said about WWI.

Breads · Sep 14, 2017

Let's not make a thread about nazis and preface it by saying it isnt about nazis.

Quixzlizx · Sep 14, 2017

1. Germany didn't fight alone.
2. Germany was exploiting the resources of conquered countries, and there were also plenty of collaborators and allies within those countries eager to help out.
3. France was taken out before the US and USSR were even involved.

So I would say it's very misleading to say that Germany was fighting off the Allies single-handedly.

Zukkoyaki · Sep 14, 2017

War and military conflict are awful but the science side of it all in general has always been fascinating.

BigAT · Sep 14, 2017

GurgleBot20 said:
"Incredible meaning large or immense, we use it in the pejorative sense!"

This is a good post.

Poohblaster · Sep 14, 2017

Germany's atomic research project was way behind the United States Manhattan Project. However, their rocket research was years ahead of everyone else.

ClosingADoor · Sep 14, 2017

To some extend, yes. But it was also the stupidity of the Allies at the start that made it possible. Had they moved into Germany while the Polish invasion was going for example, history might have looked a lot different.

German tanks were impressive, but also inflexible. They had so many models and different types, that they couldn't keep up with replacement parts to keep them running. The Soviets just made a few, but everything was interchangeable, so your tank could get fixed way quicker and they could make a ton more then Germany.

Them being able to hold out as long as they did was also because the big two (USSR and US) stayed out at the start, and then needed their time to ramp up production and move everything in place. Once that got going, it was game over for the nazi's already, just a matter of time.

always crazy bacon · Sep 14, 2017

Breads said:
Let's not make a thread about nazis and preface it by saying it isnt about nazis.

It's not. It's about the tech they created.

bahamut zero · Sep 14, 2017

We should talk about medical advancements we have to thank the nazis for, that would be a fun discussion.

Madness · Sep 14, 2017

Thankfully the good guys one in the end

Yeah those good guys like the Soviet Union and the United States...

Nazi Germany was a world superpower at the time. You would expect them to be ahead in terms of things like that. Same way the Soviet Union and the US took charge when they became superpowers and did things ahead of others.

Also, Nazi Germany was unique in that it was situated perfectly to develop and conquer like that because of how rapid the change was. Imagine if right after WWII ended,the US became fascist and totalitarian controlled. Who would stop them if they wanted to dominate the globe? Using nuclear weapons to take over nations, exploit workers, etc.

Occam · Sep 14, 2017

Breads said:
Let's not make a thread about nazis and preface it by saying it isnt about nazis.

The scientists who served the regime weren't nazis for the most part, and were educated before the nazis came to power.

The more you know.

RinsFury · Sep 14, 2017

I've frequently read that the Soviet tanks were actually a far better design. The NAZI tanks were too heavy, over-engineered, and prone to breaking down.

HariKari · Sep 14, 2017

FullMetalx117 said:
They created some of the most powerful and durable tanks at the time along with other weapons.

So durable they were often abandoned on the side of the road and scuttled whenever moved because they were over-engineered, unreliable, and expensive to produce.

Wars are economic in nature. Germany could have done a lot more with smarter decisions about allocating resources.

frontovik · Sep 14, 2017

Fortunately for the Allied/Soviet cause, their tanks weren't up par against the Soviet T34 until the war reached a climax at Kursk.

Daffy Duck · Sep 14, 2017

The Nazi engineers and scientists were nuts, Hitler was also a mad man.

I watched a program about Nazi mage structures and the stuff they had going on was mind bending for the time.

Woorloog · Sep 14, 2017

ClosingADoor said:
German tanks were impressive, but also inflexible. They had so many models and different types, that they couldn't keep up with replacement parts to keep them running. The Soviets just made a few, but everything was interchangeable, so your tank could get fixed way quicker and they could make a ton more then Germany.

There's also that German system of manufacturing was idiotic. Allies typically waited until there were enough changes planned to make shutting down a production line down for retooling, whereas Germans wasted time implementing new stuff as they came up with that. Very inefficient production.

And let's not forget that Germans wasted resources for things of marginal use, if that. Their rocket projects, while advanced, were largely useless. For example, the V2's production killed more people than the weapon itself.

Buzzman · Sep 14, 2017

In tanks they were anything but. The T-34 and even the french Char B1 tank were technologically superior. They managed to overcome them by superior tactics and doctrine of course.

ClosingADoor · Sep 14, 2017

Madness said:
Yeah those good guys like the Soviet Union and the United States...

Nazi Germany was a world superpower at the time. You would expect them to be ahead in terms of things like that. Same way the Soviet Union and the US took charge when they became superpowers and did things ahead of others.

Also, Nazi Germany was unique in that it was situated perfectly to develop and conquer like that because of how rapid the change was. Imagine if right after WWII ended,the US became fascist and totalitarian controlled. Who would stop them if they wanted to dominate the globe? Using nuclear weapons to take over nations, exploit workers, etc.

Not really. Nazi Germany had little colonies, and thus also not many resources, their economy was fucked for a long time after World War 1, which actually lead to the rise of the nazi's.

They mostly had a good start in World War 2 because their biggest enemy (USSR) made a deal to split Poland, letting them have free reign in the east. Then France fell quickly due to some superior tactics from the Germans. After that, what else did they really do except hold out for a bit against the UK and then getting fucked once the US and USSR joined in.

Bakercat · Sep 14, 2017

They also did a lot of psychological studies on people that lead to many breakthroughs of understanding how humans learn, think, and behave. The only problem is that to get these they did a lot of inhuman treatment which lead to having guidelines and rules on how to treat people in psychological studies today. Not many psych graduates like to mention this detail for obvious reasons...

heyf00L · Sep 14, 2017

They also made the first fighter jet, but for a number of reasons they didn't make many.

Dubbedinenglish · Sep 14, 2017

It's a bit two fold. The willful ignorance to the German build up by major European powers exasperated this. The British were behind the times with air power and ground forces (their Navy was still modern) and France made the mistake of trusting the Maginot Line and geography as a buffer not accounting for advancements in tracked vehicles in aircraft.

Early war the air power was the widest gulf the Nazis had. The BF-109 was a marvel at the onset of the war. Long range, high speed, durable, aluminum body and frame. Allies were still manned by largely by wood frames and using small caliber rounds compared to cannons mounted on German planes. Germans also as the Stuka which was the best dive bomber of the war until the Soviets made the IL-2.

Even beyond the mechanical innovation, Germans advanced strategy and tactics. They took combined arms warfare and the famous Blitz (which is still used today) combined air, mechanized infantry and armor to overwhelm forces.

Late war when Hitler was throwing shit against the wall to get something to work they almost had the super weapon they needed. The Stg. 44 was the first automatic assault rifle using a smaller caliber than battle rifles but larger than sub machine guns. If they had access to better metal, I think they could've turned the tide on the ground.

sibarraz · Sep 14, 2017

So in the end, nazis success was more thanks to the innovation in military tactics rather than the technology

Also, why the nazis designed everything to be so big?

Finally, it seems tha tthe design decisions of the lutwaffe really fucked them up too

Fancy Clown · Sep 14, 2017

nhlducks35 said:
Their outfits were great too

Thanks Hugo Boss

Yeah why were their aesthetics so much better than other militaries? I'm assuming something to do with appearing very neat and imposing and having lots of iconography being a core part of fascism rather than them just happening to spend effort to be extra stylish?

hawk2025 · Sep 14, 2017

You can't disconnect the war crimes from the environment that led to the creation of the war machines, and it's so, so weird to try.

Auto_aim1 · Sep 14, 2017

I always wondered how Germany could hold its own against so many countries in WW2. It's not a surprise that the Soviet Union and especially the US hired a shit ton of Nazi scientists after the war. Harry Truman didn't want to do anything with them but the US intelligence community bypassed him by falsifying records and stuff. It's really fascinating.

GAMEPROFF · Sep 14, 2017

Poohblaster said:
Germany's atomic research project was way behind the United States Manhattan Project. However, their rocket research was years ahead of everyone else.

Speaking of, how does the US think about Wernher von Braun nowadays? Do they consider that Nazi Bastard as a national hero because after he shot rockets for the Nazis in other countries, he shot people to the moon? I once read a book about him, written a couple of years after the moon landing and I was disgusted how they hushed over that topic.

FullMetalx117 · Sep 14, 2017

GAMEPROFF said:
Speaking of, how does the US think about Wernher von Braun nowadays? Do they consider that Nazi Bastard as a national hero because after he shot rockets for the Nazis in other countries, he shot people to the moon? I once read a book about him, written a couple of years after the moon landing and I was disgusted how they hushed over that topic.

Did not know about this...very fascinating

reckless · Sep 14, 2017

I know let's build tanks were a majority break down before making it to the front.

Let's build the V-2, which killed more of its builders then its enemies and cost more then the atomic bomb.

Let's build jets, but they explode a majority of the time!

If you want to look at actual wonder weapons look at the allies.

Tanks that worked and were more then a match for the Germans (and could actually build a respectable amount).

Jets that once again worked.

RADAR.

Proximity fused shells.

The Atomic Bomb.

B-29.

ETC...

Prez · Sep 14, 2017

bahamut zero said:
We should talk about medical advancements we have to thank the nazis for, that would be a fun discussion.

I've been searching and there aren't any. Nazi medical research was worthless.

RinsFury · Sep 14, 2017

GAMEPROFF said:
Speaking of, how does the US think about Wernher von Braun nowadays? Do they consider that Nazi Bastard as a national hero because after he shot rockets for the Nazis in other countries, he shot people to the moon? I once read a book about him, written a couple of years after the moon landing and I was disgusted how they hushed over that topic.

Hasn't Von Braun always been a controversial figure? Look at how he was portrayed in Dr. Strangelove as a maniacal ex-nazi way back in 1964.

Dubbedinenglish · Sep 14, 2017

sibarraz said:
So in the end, nazis success was more thanks to the innovation in military tactics rather than the technology

Also, why the nazis designed everything to be so big?

Finally, it seems tha tthe design decisions of the lutwaffe really fucked them up too

Hitler mainly.

Also the Luftwaffe really didn't understand pilot fatigue. American fighter command really got that aspect correct. German pilots were in combat indefinitely rotating between theaters which wore out veteran fliers and caused a sharp decline in skill as newer pilots were expendable to the veterans. American pilots got X amounts of sorties, rotated home to train new pilots and were given the option to go back out to combat for another tour.

There are a lot of accounts of veteran German pilots turning and flying away at the sight of Allied planes, while Allied pilots were far more eager to fight.

ryutaro's mama · Sep 14, 2017

I have a feeling this thread is gonna get really uncomfortable in a few pages time.

Morat · Sep 14, 2017

You can have every German innovation of the war, and I'll keep the radar proximity fuse.

BruceCLea · Sep 14, 2017

Yeah but they triggered us Americans into turning into the massive military industrial complex we are today.
That and the Russians. Thanks fuckwads.

Bad_Boy · Sep 14, 2017

Fuck the nazi's. They also did a shit ton of other things that make me give a fuck all about their technological advancements.

They also lost.

RinsFury · Sep 14, 2017

ryutaro's mama said:
I have a feeling this thread is gonna get really uncomfortable in a few pages time.

There don't seem to be as many 'wehraboo' types on gaf as there are elsewhere, at least not openly. But yeah, on places like reddit these types of conversations usually devolve into furious circle-jerking and eye drying at the myth of nazi superiority.

Atomic Playboy · Sep 14, 2017

Keasar said:
They did build a favourite weapon of mine.

The Schwerer Gustav 80 cm railway artillery:

Yes mein Fuhrer?
I require a weapon.
Ja, ve are making a cannon.
Nein, a cannon is not enough. I want a giant phallus that fires bombs the size of mein staff car.
*Furiously scribbling notes*
And strap it to a train. Ze vorld vill tremble with fear vhen confronted with mein boner choo-choo.

Nazi scientists were really ahead of the curve. They invented the first railgun.

capslock · Sep 14, 2017

Yes, truly the Nazis do not receive enough praise.

*rolleyes*

Extollere · Sep 14, 2017

Keasar said:
They did build a favourite weapon of mine.

The Schwerer Gustav 80 cm railway artillery:

It's stupidly huge.
It requires a stupid amount of manpower.
It's stupidly slow to fire.
It requires you to build a special stupid railway system to move the damn thing.
It stupidly had negative war effort impact when comparing what it actually managed to it's cost of running.

They built two.

And I love it.

Man, can you imagine what would have happened if Nazi Germany got the bomb before we did? Those crazy fuckers would have definitely tried to make a Metal Gear.

KarneeKarnay · Sep 14, 2017

Dubbedinenglish said:
Late war when Hitler was throwing shit against the wall to get something to work they almost had the super weapon they needed. The Stg. 44 was the first automatic assault rifle using a smaller caliber than battle rifles but larger than sub machine guns. If they had access to better metal, I think they could've turned the tide on the ground.

This.

In a sense Germany had an advantage that other nations didn't following WW1. The old government in all forms was gone. In the military the Old Guard was mostly gone with it. That meant new idea, or the right people were given the position and resources to prosper.

The UK arguably had the most Mechanised force on the planet prior to WW2, yet doctrine and training wise they were behind. A lot of this comes from the Old Guard within the UK rejecting the new ideas.

That said Hitler was the worst enemy to Germany then perhaps anything else. The man bit off more than he could chew with the USSR and then floundered desperately looking for weapons to retake the advantage. The above is a good example of what could have helped Germany.

The devotion to Rocket tech, Super artillery and other special weapons took desperately needed resources away from where they were needed. My favorite is the Tiger Tank II. Amazing tank. 1500 made during the war. Their Operational effectiveness once air superiority was lost? Almost 0. I like big fuck off tanks like any historian, but you could have made a dozen aircraft for the same cost of just one of these bad boys.

I do believe in the Synthetic Oil as being the real lifeline behind the German war machine. That if Germany had built more of these in more isolated locations, it could have potentially kept the war going for much longer. Forget building Tigers, more aircraft and more Synthetic Oil Refineries are what German needed.

RinsFury · Sep 14, 2017

Atomic Playboy said:
Yes mein Fuhrer?
I require a weapon.
Ja, ve are making a cannon.
Nein, a cannon is not enough. I want a giant phallus that fires bombs the size of mein staff car.
*Furiously scribbling notes*
And strap it to a train. Ze vorld vill tremble with fear vhen confronted with mein boner choo-choo.

Nazi scientists were really ahead of the curve. They invented the first railgun.

This is a joke, I think? But if not, railway guns have been around since the Civil War.

Here's a monster US Navy Mk.1 railway gun from WW1.

Lots more here: http://mashable.com/2015/09/26/railway-guns/

Bitch Pudding · Sep 14, 2017

Prez said:
I've been searching and there aren't any. Nazi medical research was worthless.

How do you think firefighters know how long people can survive in a room full of smoke from a fire? Not from animal testings, I can tell you that.

Etrian Oddity · Sep 14, 2017

The Mauser K98k is still my favorite rifle of all time. That thing, just like the AK-47, was built to last.

Shame about the 8mm ammo decision, but that's what gunsmithing and rechambering is for.

Bitch Pudding · Sep 14, 2017

Etrian Oddity said:
The Mauser K98k is still my favorite rifle of all time.

Shame about the 8mm ammo decision, but that's what gunsmithing and rechambering is for.

I shot a K98 once, wasn't prepared for that kind of blowback, and I can asure you I know a little something about shooting with military weapons.

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