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Attention to detail in older games

EatChildren

Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
There I was, furiously masturbating thinking about TimeSplitters 2, and I was reminded of a curious detail quirk (if my memory serves correctly) the developers bothered to program.

For a prop asset for some levels, usually those that satire gangster and noir, the devs had modelled wine barrels. Not unusual for a game, these appeared in cargo warehouses and, of course, mafia mansion wine basements.

Like a lot of games, the barrels were programmed with a decal 'leak' effect whenever they were shot. Hit them with a bullet, and a crimson coloured liquid would spray out of the hole. What I figure most people didn't note however, is that barrels seemed to keep track of their liquid volume and position of the bullet hole, leaking the appropriate volume relative to the hole's position.

So, for example, if you shot the barrel near the top it would only leak briefly. Yet if you shot the bottom it would take longer to empty. Additionally, if you shot another hole above your original hole, no wine would leak out, as logically the wine above the original penetration was now all over the floor. But if you shot below? Wine would spill.

It's possible I'm remembering this wrong, so I'd like to go and test it again, but I remember being baffled and impressed at this little attention to detail all the way back then.

So that's what this thread is about: quirky attention to detail in older (last gen+) games. Little things many may not have noticed, taken for granted, and rarely appear in even your most biggest budget modern blockbuster.

Few others:

In Red Faction (the original) the right ballistic on the right surface, eg steel instead of wood, shot at the right angle, would cause shots to ricochet. There was even a separate impact decal, a scrape instead of a hole, to show this. If I recall correctly, if you were really crafty with your angled shot you could ricochet the shot off two surfaces, eg: from the floor, to a wall, impacting on the third surface hit.

Perfect Dark has a ridiculous attention to detail, especially for it's time. Separate impact decals for different surfaces, bullet penetration based on surface and ballistics, and accurate simulation of ejected shell fall. EG: if your shells take longer to hit the ground, such as falling off a higher ledge, the sound bite of them landing will be timed accordingly.
 

Unicorn

Member
GTA:IV was packed with them. The beeping static on the radio right before you receive a text message on your in-game cell phone. I thought I was the only one to notice that phenomenon irl.

eh, but it's not an "older game."

In Tenchu 2, I loved being able to drag bodies to hide them (was also in MGS), but being able to put them in empty sheds and close the door was icing on the cake.
 

Tomasooie

Member
Shenmue should've been the first reply.

I have failed.

That's amazing though, that GTAIV one (as well as the Timesplitters detail). Here's another one on GTAIV: if you tap Y, you leave the engine running and the radio stays on; hold Y instead and it all goes off.


juOVhGhpoWNq0.jpg
 
Shenmue was terrible though.

Anyway, like the second poster, I was a bit shocked at the static on the radio right before a call in GTA. Really really cool detail.
 

JimboJones

Member
Don't think you are remembering it wrong, I remember shooting the barrels and noticing that it seemd to keep track of the volume of liquid too, thinking "Weird" but like, cool wierd.
 

RoadDogg

Member
I replayed TS2 not to long ago so I can confirm this is accurate, but I wouldn't call it unnecessary to the game. There was a mission where you had to destroy all the booze so if you were doing a speed run you had to take care into where you shot the barrels. I don't think it is that odd to spend some extra time making them cooler if they intended the player to shoot them more then once.

A Link to the Past has lots of things like this. I always though Nintendo spent far more time on the NPCs then they needed to since very few were important to the game.
 

Nibel

Member
Shenmue was terrible though.

I'll put this in the most polite way possible: burn. Seriously, burn.

@Topic: I never noticed the TS2 thing with the wine barrel. Actually this is a good fit for this "gaming secret" thread we once had.

And I'm quite sad that there isn't that much detail in most games anymore. Try it yourself in a FPS for example: shoot a bullet into water. In my case, if there is no reaction, the "shoot feeling" almost vanishes. Bullets need to have impact on everything.
But sadly, most developers don't even have enough time to actually finish their games.
 
shenmue thread?

records of actual weather conditions of the Yokosuka during 1986/1987 were implemented into the game and all citizens would react to weather condition by getting their umbrellas out, changing clothes etc. in real time.
 

Grayman

Member
liquid never came out of bottles or fruit but metal gear solid 2 had a large number of breakable props in the tanker chapter.
 

Sojgat

Member
What's there to get? There's a phone, a hand, a clock... What's the crazy "level of detail" I'm supposed to be seeing?

Look at what is happening in the picture.

Edit: Thinking Shenmue is terrible is not a crime, but it should be.
 

spanks

Member
That's amazing though, that GTAIV one (as well as the Timesplitters detail). Here's another one on GTAIV: if you tap Y, you leave the engine running and the radio stays on; hold Y instead and it all goes off.

Also, if you give Niko a second before accelerating, he will put on his seatbelt, which will prevent you front flying out the car if you crash. With motorcycles, he'll put on a helmet that will reduce damage if you fall off.
 
Rollercoaster Tycoon had great detail with regards to physics and engineering. Ex. the game accounts for the difference in weight between an empty coaster and a full coaster.
 

NekoFever

Member
It always impressed me in Shenmue how every NPC had a name, date of birth, blood type and address where they'd go at the end of the day once they'd finished their unique routine. And most of that wasn't even in the game; it was all listed in the official guide.
 
In Mother 3, meeting Kumatora has her using PK Freeze in a cutscene. When she joins the party, you can see that she's not at full PP because she'd just used a PSI attack beforehand.
 
K

kittens

Unconfirmed Member
Look at what is happening in the picture.
The player is dialing the number manually? That's cool. But the phone itself seems like a pretty unremarkable set piece for a game set in that place and time. I'm not trying to diss Shenmue or the person who posted that pic. I was just unsure of what it was supposed to convey.

As for my own submissions, I can't think of specific details, but I can think of games that I remember having impressive (or at least interesting) levels of detail in general... Metal Gear Solid: Ghost Babel, the pre-rendered backgrounds of all the PSX era Square RPGs, and the laughable photos of Karl Marx in Goldeneye are some of the first to come to mind.
 
Look at what is happening in the picture.

Edit: Thinking Shenmue is terrible is not a crime, but it should be.

Then arrest me after you get done looking for sailors. Not trolling, just think it was a game that had incredible ideas that were executed poorly.
 

Pneophen

Neo Member
In Castlevania SOTN, there is a room in the castle that has a telescope in it. At the bottom left of the room is a birds nest. A bird flies up to the nest, sits down for a bit, and then leaves. If you keep leaving the room and coming back you'll see the bird lay eggs. Eventually as you keep coming back, the eggs hatch and you can see the various stages of the baby birds lives until they finally become adult birds and fly off.
 

Alexios

Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
Then arrest me after you get done looking for sailors.
That's the best you can do? Lol.

Like one can't talk about countless stupid shit in GTAIV or almost any game. Some silly dialogue/delivery is hardly showing it's so terrible.
288155490_FPRZY-L-2.jpg

Not to mention the thread has nothing to do with a game's overall quality so yes, your first post does seem like 100% unnecessary trolling.
 

VashTS

Member
Then arrest me after you get done looking for sailors. Not trolling, just think it was a game that had incredible ideas that were executed poorly.

The only reason that they were executed poorly was because there was no other game to look at for these ideas. It was revolutionary for it's time. Time of release must be taken into context!

Shenmue demands reparations by modern gamers!!!!
 
Crysis also did the liquid level in barrels thing. It was oil barrels instead of wine though.


Ahh. I missed the older games part of the thread title.
 
In HGSS, you can fish with the Good Rod at the Lake of Rage when you first get there, although you'll only encounter mostly Magikarp. However, if you fish with Team Rocket's evolution-enducing radio signal playing, you'll encounter nothing but Gyarados.
 

KKRT00

Member
There I was, furiously masturbating thinking about TimeSplitters 2, and I was reminded of a curious detail quirk (if my memory serves correctly) the developers bothered to program.

For a prop asset for some levels, usually those that satire gangster and noir, the devs had modelled wine barrels. Not unusual for a game, these appeared in cargo warehouses and, of course, mafia mansion wine basements.

Like a lot of games, the barrels were programmed with a decal 'leak' effect whenever they were shot. Hit them with a bullet, and a crimson coloured liquid would spray out of the hole. What I figure most people didn't note however, is that barrels seemed to keep track of their liquid volume and position of the bullet hole, leaking the appropriate volume relative to the hole's position.

So, for example, if you shot the barrel near the top it would only leak briefly. Yet if you shot the bottom it would take longer to empty. Additionally, if you shot another hole above your original hole, no wine would leak out, as logically the wine above the original penetration was now all over the floor. But if you shot below? Wine would spill.

Medal of Honor: Allied Assault had the same feature with oil barrels. You could even do more holes to deplenish oil faster.
 

botty

Banned
I don't know if this counts... but in Mario Kart 64, that cameo of Peach's Castle is the most amazing thing ever.
 

protonion

Member
Mgs2 has an amazing detail.

When you go to rescue Emma, call Campbell at the start of the flooded area. You get a long dialogue about Emma. After you dive and a bit later go out from the water for oxygen, you get a call from Hal. He says something that you already heard from the previous conversation with Campbell and Snake says something like "Campbell told me this".

They added a line just for gamers who bothered to make a call at a very specific point of the game.

The whole codec in mgs2 actually is a game within the game. You can get Rose mad at you and disable save or ask her to research stuff and get more info later. They put a lot of work for sure.
 

sp3000

Member
Crysis had different animations depending on what object you held in your hand. If it was a water bottle you would actually hold it like you were preparing to beat someone with it.

Crysis 2 has like 5 different reloading animations for every weapon
 

Dunan

Member
In Castlevania SOTN, there is a room in the castle that has a telescope in it. At the bottom left of the room is a birds nest. A bird flies up to the nest, sits down for a bit, and then leaves. If you keep leaving the room and coming back you'll see the bird lay eggs. Eventually as you keep coming back, the eggs hatch and you can see the various stages of the baby birds lives until they finally become adult birds and fly off.

More from SOTN:

* The prison cells are numbered: 101, 102... on the first floor, 201, 202... on the second floor, etc.

* There's a face etched into one of the columns in the huge open area at the very top of the castle, where some Yoricks are kicking their heads around like soccer balls. The face still looks like a face
even upside down, which you'll see when you reach the Inverted Castle.
 

Fredrik

Member
Bouncing boobs in DOA?

Seriously though, the animation when walking down/up a ladder in The Immortal always impressed me, the way he briefly puts down the staff while getting a better grip on the ladder felt really over the top back in the days.

In Castlevania SOTN, there is a room in the castle that has a telescope in it. At the bottom left of the room is a birds nest. A bird flies up to the nest, sits down for a bit, and then leaves. If you keep leaving the room and coming back you'll see the bird lay eggs. Eventually as you keep coming back, the eggs hatch and you can see the various stages of the baby birds lives until they finally become adult birds and fly off.
That's amazing o_O
 

Dacvak

No one shall be brought before our LORD David Bowie without the true and secret knowledge of the Photoshop. For in that time, so shall He appear.
A little besides the point, but I always think poorly of FPS games that have bottles in the game that don't break when shot.
 
liquid never came out of bottles or fruit but metal gear solid 2 had a large number of breakable props in the tanker chapter.

One that comes to mind is at the bar.

There's a drink on the bar that you can shoot, causing the glass to shatter and the ice cubes to slide out onto the bar. A pretty neat little animation itself, but if you watch, the ice slowly melts. It takes a few minutes before it disappears completely.
 

Lancehead

Member
Thief 2 has a fan-made expansion pack called Shadows of the Metal Age. You play as Zaya, a female thief. Being a young, shapely woman, she can't lift bodies of really heavy enemies, after knocking them out/killing them.
 
I was impressed by halo 3's attention to detail. Individually modeled bullets for the sniper for example, or how physics act on the rockets and how grenades can be shot out of the air.

my favorite is the ghost, even though you can barely see the dashboard, it actually shows you whats ahead of you with the same shaders as the sniper scope.
 

RedSwirl

Junior Member
I noticed the TimeSplitters and Perfect Dark ones from the OP back when they came out. I actually thought you HAD to shoot the barrels at the bottom in order to complete that objective.

As for PD, GoldenEye actually had the same attention to detail when it came to bullet impact. Knowing what guns penetrated what surfaces actually played a pretty important part in my old multiplayer sessions.

Does anybody even organize PD sessions on XBLA anymore?
 
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