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Sonic Jam for Saturn

A

Agent Unknown

Member
I've been playing a smorgasbord of Saturn games lately (especially import shmups) and tonight dug out my copy of Sonic Jam. I forgot what a surprisingly solid package this was. The interactive 3D museum (why did we never get an original Sonic game on this system? Oh right, because Naka threw a fit when the guys on the Sonic Xtreme project wanted to use the Nights engine), digital manuals in both Japanese and U.S., character sketches, ect. One feature I especially enjoy is the addition of the spin dash in Sonic 1. How accurate was the emulation on this?
 
V

Vipershark

Member
The games were essentially re-coded from the ground up for the saturn to include difficulty levels and stuff.

In other words, not emulated at all.
 
K

Kokonoe

Banned
^ I didn't know all that, that's pretty interesting.

I should really dust off my Saturn, purchase a new cable, and pick this collection up to give it a whirl.
 
B

Barkley's Justice

Member
grap3fruitman said:
Per my understanding, the games aren't emulated.
Click to expand...

f97d033e87ca.gif
 
A

Agent Unknown

Member
Vipershark said:
The games were essentially re-coded from the ground up for the saturn to include difficulty levels and stuff.

In other words, not emulated at all.
Click to expand...

Interesting. I always thought that must be crazy difficult to do. How does that work anyways? When a game is re-coded does it still at least use some of the original game's code?
 
A

Agent Unknown

Member
Hmmm, just encountered some serious slowdown in Sonic 2 Emerald Hill while using the speed shoes & invincibility combo, that normal?

Edit: Ok now getting some slowdown even without the above.
 
SonicMegaDrive

SonicMegaDrive

Member
This was probably the last time I was 100% satisfied with a Sonic-related product. Fantastic compilation. I wish this kind of love and care was put into a newer Sonic compilation of some kind. Or any compilation for that matter.
 
T

Tain

Member
Agent Unknown said:
Interesting. I always thought that must be crazy difficult to do. How does that work anyways? When a game is re-coded does it still at least use some of the original game's code?
Click to expand...

Depends on the tools available for the target platform, but in the case of these games, I'd say definitely.
 
V

Vipershark

Member
Agent Unknown said:
Interesting. I always thought that must be crazy difficult to do. How does that work anyways? When a game is re-coded does it still at least use some of the original game's code?
Click to expand...

The basically took the source code and ported it over to the saturn but added features.
Pretty much no different than porting a game between consoles today (or for a better example, porting Jet Set Radio from the Dreamcast to the current PC HD rerelease).
 
B

bon

Member
My favorite thing was the movie theater where you could watch japanese Sonic commercials and little cartoons and stuff.
 
B

bbdude

Member
I was lucky enough to have a Sega Saturn and this game as a kid... probably around 1998 or so. This compilation stands out as one of my more fonder memories of my earliest gaming days. The videos in the museum, for me, was basically the equivalent of a toddler watching the same video of Sesame Street over and over again and not getting sick of it. I actually spent way more time in that 3d overworld than the actual games! It was basically Sonic like I'd never before imagined.

The Sonic of this time had a charm (?) that's forever lost in the newer games. Generations tried to mimic it by bringing back "classic" Sonic, but it didn't feel the same. Now all I am do is play as halo.
 
A

Agent Unknown

Member
Vipershark said:
The basically took the source code and ported it over to the saturn but added features.
Pretty much no different than porting a game between consoles today (or for a better example, porting Jet Set Radio from the Dreamcast to the current PC HD rerelease).
Click to expand...

Interesting, thanks for the clarification.
 
T

Toy Soldier

Member
I remember drooling over Next-Gen's story about the museum mode, a few months before its release. It was sad to play it, only to think the same thought we all had: "Why isn't THIS the game?!" Great package, buy it.
 
D

djlr181

Member
Agent Unknown said:
Hmmm, just encountered some serious slowdown in Sonic 2 Emerald Hill while using the speed shoes & invincibility combo, that normal?

Edit: Ok now getting some slowdown even without the above.
Click to expand...

Sonic 2 definitely has some slowdown in Sonic Jam. It actually seems to occur for a few frames every minute or so.
 
Q

Quackula

Member
DonMigs85 said:
Were the SNES Final Fantasies on PS1 emulated or recoded as well? I know FFVI had a bit of slowdown.
Click to expand...

i believe those were emulated. I know that FF4 and Chrono Trigger are at least. FF4 manages to completely fit into the console's ram, so if you play that version, you'll notice that there aren't things like the load times between battles.

Chrono Trigger has the load times becuase of the stupidest reason imaginable. The japanese version doesn't have those load times, the game just barely fits into the RAM and runs beautifully. For the US version though, instead of just replacing the rom with a translated one, they just added some code that actually patches the rom with english text on the fly. The US version's load times are because it's applying that patch.
 
S

Seik

Banned
I have the game too, don't worry, its nothing bad. Well, I do not regret my purchase, its a great compilation loaded with videos, old school ads and artworks you can put on your PC when the CD is in.
 
A

Agent Unknown

Member
Seik said:
I have the game too, don't worry, its nothing bad.
Click to expand...

Yeah, the slowdown definitely isn't bad enough to be a deal breaker, I plan on playing this compilation a lot now.

Now, I have a confession.....



....I own a ton of Saturn games but still haven't played Nights. *runs in shame*
 
M

MechaX

Member
Isn't Sonic Jam one of the few compilations that actually allow you to play Sonic 3 and Knuckles (at least from the get go?)
 
S

Seik

Banned
Agent Unknown said:
Yeah, the slowdown definitely isn't bad enough to be a deal breaker, I plan on playing this compilation a lot now.

Now, I have a confession.....



....I own a ton of Saturn games but still haven't played Nights. *runs in shame*
Click to expand...

Same here, I have over 35 Saturn games and no Nights, I need this game soon. D:

MechaX said:
Isn't Sonic Jam one of the few compilations that actually allow you to play Sonic 3 and Knuckles (at least from the get go?)
Click to expand...

Yep.
 
B

Buttonbasher

Member
I rented this years ago and was in love. It's been my gaming white whale for the longest time. One day I will find a copy, and it will be glorious.
 
K

Krelian

Member
Quackula said:
Well I have Nights, and have had it since around when I first got my Saturn.

I still haven't played it.
Click to expand...
You guys should definitely give NiGHTS a try. It's such a beautiful game.

I've never played Sonic Jam, but I'll try to find a copy to do that. Always thought the games were emulated, too.
 
S

Shion

Member
It's been a very long time since I last played Sonic Jam, but I remember the physics being somewhat different from the originals.

I remember having some problems whenever I tried to speed run through the stages.

The Sonic World was awesome at the time, though :p

di-EY1Q.gif
 
S

Sixfortyfive

He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
Vipershark said:
The basically took the source code and ported it over to the saturn but added features.
Pretty much no different than porting a game between consoles today (or for a better example, porting Jet Set Radio from the Dreamcast to the current PC HD rerelease).
Click to expand...
It's not quite that straightforward since the "source code" for the original Sonic games are all in 68K assembly, if I'm not mistaken.

Fortunately the Saturn happens to have that specific chip though.
 
Alexios

Alexios

Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
Shion said:
It's been a very long time since I last played Sonic Jam, but I remember the physics being somewhat different from the originals.

I remember having some problems whenever I tried to speed run through the stages.

The Sonic World was awesome at the time, though :p

di-EY1Q.gif
Click to expand...
Yeah, shame they couldn't get a full game out of that exact engine and art style, it was some of the best 3D I had seen at the time. The camera was well handled too, sometimes it went top-down other times behind Sonic as seen there. Great stuff. Sonic was a bit slow but control was tight. it wasn't a game but the controls and visuals made that area fun to explore and mess around in.

Sonic looks super cute too.
 
SonicMegaDrive

SonicMegaDrive

Member
MrCunningham said:
The art style for the first cartoon reminds me of the art style that was present in Animaiacs and Tiny Toon Adventures... but yet it was amde in japan. Interesting.
Click to expand...

Because the episodes of Animaniacs and Tiny Toons you're referring to were also made by the same Japanese studio that did that cartoon.
 
D

dreamcastmaster

Banned
Sonic 3D was released much later in Japan than is was in the west as part of a marketing project including Sonic R and Sonic jam called the Sonic Project as a pre release hype tool for Sonic Adventure on the Dreamcast.
 
K

KojiKnight

Member
Quackula said:
i believe those were emulated. I know that FF4 and Chrono Trigger are at least. FF4 manages to completely fit into the console's ram, so if you play that version, you'll notice that there aren't things like the load times between battles.
Click to expand...

Nope. Neither are emulated both because the PS1 was no where NEAR powerful enough and because it would be legally questionable to do so for them (remember, this was around the time that Sony was suing Bleem, "sold" emulators without royalties was legally a gray area that could come back to haunt you). Instead, the SNES roms are simply used to pull assets from since (as you noted) they could mostly fit into RAM.
 
Q

Quackula

Member
KojiKnight said:
Nope. Neither are emulated both because the PS1 was no where NEAR powerful enough and because it would be legally questionable to do so for them (remember, this was around the time that Sony was suing Bleem, "sold" emulators without royalties was legally a gray area that could come back to haunt you). Instead, the SNES roms are simply used to pull assets from since (as you noted) they could mostly fit into RAM.
Click to expand...

I stand corrected then.
 
D

dark10x

Digital Foundry pixel pusher
qq more said:
If only that was an actual full game. :( Generations was the closest thing.
Click to expand...
Generations was much better than that.

The 3D portion of the Saturn game would not have made a good game. The controls were poor and twitchy, the animation was terrible and jerky, and the map was tiny. There was not a good game hiding in there.
 
Q

Quackula

Member
dark10x said:
Generations was much better than that.

The 3D portion of the Saturn game would not have made a good game. The controls were poor and twitchy, the animation was terrible and jerky, and the map was tiny. There was not a good game hiding in there.
Click to expand...

That engine with the right level design would've at least given the Sega loyal a Saturn 3D Sonic they could be happy with. I personally would've preferred it to the weird fisheye lens thing that Sonic X-Treme was trying to do.
 
R

Ramune

Member
SonicMegaDrive said:
Because the episodes of Animaniacs and Tiny Toons you're referring to were also made by the same Japanese studio that did that cartoon.
Click to expand...

TMS is the studio in question. Look up the episodes "Super Robotnik" and "Quest for the Chaos Emeralds" mini arc and you'll see their style in no time. Definitely the better animated episodes of AoSTH. They're also interesting because they worked on Sonic X as well. So their history with the blue blur isn't short. :)

Sonic Jam was awesome though. The only thing that bugged me was that they used the Sonic 1 invincibility music in Sonic 2 when it had it's own version of the tune. Drove me nuts! Sonic 3/Sonic & Knuckles/3 & Knuckles I think even had enhanced sound effects for certain things. Not much, but if you were like me and played the hell out of the 16-bit originals, you would notice them. The extra life jingle at the end of a special stage for instance was MUCH different and clearer compared to the Genesis/Megadrive original IIRC.

dreamcastmaster said:
Sonic 3D was released much later in Japan than is was in the west as part of a marketing project including Sonic R and Sonic jam called the Sonic Project as a pre release hype tool for Sonic Adventure on the Dreamcast.
Click to expand...

Yeah, they even gave Sonic, Tails and Knuckles a pre-Adventure makeover on the cover of the jewelcase too. And in Japan, it was only the Saturn version that was released. The 16-bit version game was a US/Europe exclusive IIRC.
 
Q

qq more

Member
dark10x said:
Generations was much better than that.

The 3D portion of the Saturn game would not have made a good game. The controls were poor and twitchy, the animation was terrible and jerky, and the map was tiny. There was not a good game hiding in there.
Click to expand...

Well I'm sort of speaking in art and concept-wise. Would of have been so cool to see a full 3D Sonic with that kind of art direction while retaining the classic gameplay. Maybe a better comparison should of have been that SRB2 fan game I guess.

Though I guess that's sort of impossible because it seems rather tough destroying enemies without the homing attack in 3D.
 
Z

Zaki2407

Member
I remember playing this game back in 1997 and was shocked with the 3d graphic......until I realize that it wasn,t the whole game..... T_T
 
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