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I think Microsoft might surprise a bunch of people

DocSeuss

Member
So, for the past three years, Microsoft has been kinda a disappointment (well, maybe not last E3, where they debuted three new IPs, showed new technology, announced sequels to their biggest franchises--including Halo 4 without Kinect--added new XBL functionality, etc). The focus has been on the games with the biggest sales and Kinect.

Many of us have taken this to mean that Microsoft is more interested in focusing on the big, dumb, dudebro crowd that'll buy anything, as well as the casual crowd, who made Kinect the best-selling electronic device of all time in the Fall of 2010.

Last year, I had an opportunity to visit a game store that sold a lot of previous-gen (and beyond) games. I made myself a shopping list of what games to get, and found a lot of original Xbox-exclusive titles that were really unique and interesting. "Man," I found myself thinking, "I wish Microsoft was still like this."

Shortly after, I found myself playing Viva Pinata. I'm not actually sure why I picked it up, only that I did and enjoyed it so much that I almost immediately went out and purchased Trouble in Paradise. I started looking for more early 360-exclusive games, and found some really cool, really innovative stuff, like Shadowrun and Crackdown.

"So," I found myself thinking, "what changed in 2010?"

The most tangible answer is Kinect. It released in 2010, after all, but then, I realized something else: most games take two or three years to develop.

What happened before then? Ensemble, FASA, Aces, and other studios got shut down. Rare stopped making games and went into making avatars and Kinect games. These were long-time studios that had made Microsoft a great deal of money. Aces, in particular, had been developing Microsoft Flight Simulator for... what, decades?

What caused that to happen?

The 2008 financial crisis.

This is where I start speculating, but I think this is all pretty close to what actually happened:

The Xbox lost a lot of money, but got its brand into the public mindshare, which was Microsoft's goal. In 2008, when the economy collapsed, Microsoft was determined not to lose that kind of money again, so they started shuttering the AAA studios that weren't doing extremely well (basically, everyone who was selling fewer games than Lionhead). Assuming a three year development cycle, games that might have been announced in 2010 were dropped. In addition, the PC studios got shut down, because the guys who fought for PC gaming at Microsoft (Allen, Gates), weren't around as much, and the guys running the Entertainment division were mostly Xbox guys. My understanding is that the profit margins weren't too good at Ensemble, despite their games' great sales.

On top of this, Microsoft had invested a lot of money into the Kinect, which they thought might do really well (it did, at first) based on the Wii's success. They shifted over to that as a priority, not just because of the Wii's track record, but also because it was costing them a lot of money. They believed it was their best shot at success, and given their limited funding, they decided to put that as a priority.

Remember, development takes time. Decisions made one year won't necessarily become public knowledge for two or three.

In 2010, when the Kinect launched (and initially did really well--apparently the attach rate is kind of bad), Microsoft began working on their next generation console. Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if they started before then, concurrently with 343's formation in ~2009, but I'm pretty sure the major work started in 2010.

Microsoft's approach for the past two generations has been to shotgun launch a massive variety of games within the first few years, then sort of pull back on the experiments that don't work and emphasize those that do. We've seen this greatly exaggerated this generation because of the financial crisis, as I've surmised above.

I think what we've seen is Microsoft playing it safe as a result of the 2008 financial crisis.

I remember hearing, about a year ago, that Microsoft had earmarked around three hundred million dollars for core AAA game development. We know for a fact that Black Tusk Studios is working on an AAA shooter and that Kinect has been pulled from the project. We know that Rare is hiring people with AAA shooter/action-adventure experience. We've heard that Microsoft is working on at least four new IPs. I think when I counted last, Microsoft had between 8 and 12 studios who had never made a game before. LinkedIn profiles and rumors I've seen the past year or two seem to indicate that a lot of experienced people from AAA games are being hired by Microsoft for more than just Halo, Forza, and Fable (Gears of War is an Epic IP, and, as such, it's up to them--I'm guessing that Black Tusk's new game is going to replace Gears in Microsoft's lineup).

While the rumors suggest that you will need to have your Kinect plugged into your Xbox, many people seem, rather stupidly, to assume that this means all games must have Kinect functionality. We know that Halo 4 went against Kinect functionality. We know that the Forza series has Kinect functionality, but it doesn't replace anything core.

I would like to suggest that we're going to see a Microsoft we haven't seen for a long time when the next E3 comes. I think we'll see a lot more core games than we're used to. Yes, Kinect is going to be there, and it's going to be a big part of their presentation, and Microsoft, without a doubt, is going to push this far more as an all-purpose media box than the PS4 (which barely had any discussion in last night's conference), but...

I am not arrogant enough to suggest that people will be eating crow, but I do think that on the software front, Microsoft will end up surprising people quite a bit.
 

thuway

Member
I think if Microsoft releases the machine in 2013, it will concede the technical crown to Sony, but I honestly don't think Microsoft cares. Microsoft has the price advantage, and that is not something to fool around about. They will make heavy profits with their unit if GAF-Xbox fans, and the casuals are any indication. Sony will have a long and rough road ahead since GDDR5 is not something that can shrink on whim. This is going to be a battle of the technical enthusiast and the rest of the world.
 

LiquidMetal14

hide your water-based mammals
A lot of words for being speculative.

MSFT has their own vision and that's ok. I think they have fallen as a games leader and are more in it for other reasons than Sony or even Nintendo. They haven't been good for me in at least 3-4 years. That's not to say they can't do some things to help their cause but we just have to wait and see.
 

DocSeuss

Member
As if you're expecting the first post to actually read the thread.

99.9% of the time the first post of a thread is just a knee-jerk reaction to the title.

Yeah, I know.

But I like to think people can read as fast as me.

A lot of words for being speculative.

MSFT has their own vision and that's ok. I think they have fallen as a games leader and are more in it for other reasons than Sony or even Nintendo. They haven't been good for me in at least 3-4 years. That's not to say they can't do some things to help their cause but we just have to wait and see.

If they've fallen as a games leader, why do they continue have the highest metascore of the three first-parties? Personally, I feel that while Sony and Nintendo are releasing more diverse games, they're not quite as good as Microsoft's output. I've enjoyed pretty much every AAA game I've played that Microsoft has released so far.
 
I can't help but be miffed my Microsoft as they always go through this cycle where they have cool new ips and "we're all about games" and then they close all their game studios down sans 2 and go "fuck games, we're a media device". I can't help but me a little wary of their strategy, especially with their desire to probably tie something with Windows 8
 
At this point, Microsoft can only surprise or disappoint (or both). There is no middle ground when you are in the position of reacting. If there is, it's perilously slim.
 

Shaanyboi

Banned
Microsoft will bank on Kinect. Not exclusively, but I don't doubt that system's reveal and/or E3 presentation to be filled with a lot of Kinect demos that will result in a lot of memes on NeoGAF.
 

shandy706

Member
I expect Microsoft to come out swinging software/games wise.

I wouldn't be surprised to see 8-10 exclusive games at E3. I'd wager 4-5 of them will be new IPs.
 

Takuya

Banned
I believe that the cards Microsoft will play are moneyhats, Kinect, and new multimedia features of the next XBOX. They will obviously show some XBOX Exclusive games, and new IP, but I don't think that their technology will be superior to Sony's.
 

thuway

Member
I can't help but be miffed my Microsoft as they always go through this cycle where they have cool new ips and "we're all about games" and then they close all their game studios down sans 2 and go "fuck games, we're a media device". I can't help but me a little wary of their strategy, especially with their desire to probably tie something with Windows 8

I don't think you have any thing to worry about. They can easily box Sony out with profits and DLC incentives. Sony took the route of profitability long term, Microsoft is aiming for profit immediately.

I believe that the cards Microsoft will play are moneyhats, Kinect, and new multimedia features of the next XBOX. They will obviously show some XBOX Exclusive games, and new IP, but I don't think that their technology will be superior to Sony's.

Agreed, it's nothing new for them.
 

Jinko

Member
I really have no idea what to expect from MS at this stage, the next couple weeks/months will be interesting thats for sure.
 
On the two last E3s they showed nothing that i could get exited about. Ad there seemed to be a large shift to streaming instead of gaming.

So i can only hope they will surprise me. Cause right now i'm thinking i might skip the next xbox.
 
I agree completely. Everyone is expecting a repeat of the E3s of a few years past, understandably, but I don't think that'll happen. I think MS is going to go hard after 'the core gamer' early adopter with a lot of great looking and serious games. The casual/social stuff can come later in the new system's lifecycle when sales start to flag.
 

DocSeuss

Member

Bravo. You are amazing.

Microsoft will bank on Kinect. Not exclusively, but I don't doubt that system's reveal and/or E3 presentation to be filled with a lot of Kinect demos that will result in a lot of memes on NeoGAF.

I don't believe this will be the case, as outlined by the OP.

I'm curious to see if Fortaleza still exists. The lack of rumors about it suggests that this isn't the case, though. It's either nowhere near done or has been canceled, I'm guessing. Kinda sucks, since Google's obviously pushing a similar thing really hard.

It'll surprise the hardcore because 80% of it will be on entertainments and Kinect.

I would have been happy with "I disagree with your assertion, OP, because of..." or something, not the claim my OP (hopefully thoughtfully) explained was complete crap?
 

ari

Banned
At this point, Microsoft can only surprise or disappoint (or both). There is no middle ground when you are in the position of reacting. If there is, it's perilously slim.

MS have a countdown where they are going to reveal the next xbox, i think it ends on E3 and was set last year or something. react? lol. Microsoft will pull out the big guns and some of you will be eating crow. lol
 
Fan speculation is always better than what the reality is, unfortunately. What you're saying isn't impossible but the vast majority of the cards have already been laid out on the table. MS may be able to pull off a surprise or two, but we basically know what they have, just like we basically knew what the PS4 had (or completely knew what it had, sans an extra 4gb of ram).


It all comes down to price, games and if anyone can create a new market like Nintendo did with the wii. My speculation is the Microsoft will be in the lead out of the gate based on a lower price point and people being attached to their friends list/gamerscore/etc. It's in years 2-4 where some excitement might start brewing.
 
I don't think they will surprise anyone. I think their aims and goals are completely transparent. It's 2 different visions of the gaming future or 2 different ideas of what people want. Microsoft is betting on beyond gaming and then games and Sony is betting gaming and then beyond.

If that makes sense.
 

Bgamer90

Banned
On the two last E3s they showed nothing that imcould get exited about. Ad there seemed to be a large shift to streaming instead of gaming.

More than likely because the 360 is an old console and they are transforming it into a console for different demographics (who still don't have one).

While the Next Xbox will have similar features and features that expand on those qualities, I think it's a bit silly to think that the Next Xbox conference(s) won't also be focused heavily on new core gaming experiences.
 

Router

Hopsiah the Kanga-Jew
From a software point of view, I think its going to be very interesting. I'm expecting them to take the stuff sony was talking about (streaming to mobile devices, always on, suspend and multitasking) and push it further.
 

nasos_333

Member
I think xbox 720 will not be like xbox 360 and all the reasons i liked 360 so much will nto be there

1. JRPGs - 360 had one of my top, Lost Odyssey and many more

I dont think 720 will get any exclusive JRPGs this time around, so that will be a 50% loss of its appeal to me

2. Fable - the main reason i liked xbox 1 and went to xbox 360 at launch, Fable has been a constant dissapointment, in Fable 3 they did away with any fairy tale atmopshere and cool bosses/monsters and added .... robots

Sady i dont think they will reecover Fable, they will probably make it even less of a Fable in future

Plus it is on PC, so not really an exclusive, which lowers even further 720 appeal

3. Alan Wake - one of my top games, now is on PC, so why get a xbox for Alan Wake 2 if it even comes when i can get it on PC later


So these are the main points that can make or break xbox 720 for me, if they can deliver real exlusives (not also on PC), a good Fable not on PC and JRPGs, then i will consider getting one

Right now PS4 is my top priority and WiiU 2ond (plus my trusty 3DS that hopefully gets Bravely Default at some point)
 

Hoo-doo

Banned
MS have a countdown where they are going to reveal the next xbox, i think it ends on E3 and was set last year or something. react? lol. Microsoft will pull out the big guns and some of you will be eating crow. lol

You mean Major Nelson posting a mycountdown.com link on his twitter? Yeah okay.
 

Pie and Beans

Look for me on the local news, I'll be the guy arrested for trying to burn down a Nintendo exec's house.
Definitely hope they dont surprise us with the kind of "USED GAMES WILL NOT WORK" treat. Because not all surprises are good ones.

I think I've heard rumblings Durango will have the same "play game even while its downloading" thing btw.
 
I think MS will grip the U.S market with the Kinect/App focused system.

I also think some of these apps will prove to be pretty nifty for core gamers.

The big market here is the COD crowd, and how big of a significance they will be. What MS still has are groups who've jumped in together, and Sony needs to convince those guys.
I wonder, is it hard to do some incentive program for people crossing over? Like, convert Achievements to Trophies, convince a friend to buy PS4 and get rewarded somehow (like they do with VITA).
 
They will be coming out the gate swinging. No way they will be in autopilot this year.
yeah that's one thing that is for sure. Their wallets will be wiiiiiiiiiiide open for the first year or 2 before they go back to their service focus. They need to get the asses back in the seats first.
 
More than likely because the 360 is an old console and they are transforming it into a console for different demographics.

While the Next Xbox will have similar features and features that expand on those qualities, I think it's a bit silly to think that the Next Xbox conference(s) won't also be focused heavily on new core gaming experiences.
Well, i hope so. Would be wise, cause people can stream all that shit on their 360. And i still think they are heavily overestimatng the true appeal of Kinect.
 
Definitely hope they dont surprise us with the kind of "USED GAMES WILL NOT WORK" treat. Because not all surprises are good ones.

I think I've heard rumblings Durango will have the same "play game even while its downloading" thing btw.

I just can't see Microsoft announcing that. Even if it's true, they aren't going to come out in a big press event telling everyone you can't buy used games for the system.
 

GavinGT

Banned
Microsoft is the software company. What Sony announced in terms of services was impressive, but I expect Microsoft to have even crazier things in the oven. Things we didn't even know we wanted. They didn't beef up security for nothing - they want to give Sony as little time to react as they can.
 

Salsa

Member
Hopefully.

Not because I prefer Microsoft, but precisely because having no horse on this race means that I embrace healthy competition that can bring the best out of both and push tech forward.

perfect position bros
 

Brazil

Living in the shadow of Amaz
I think over the past, what, five years the only time Microsoft surprised me in a good way was when they announced Minecraft for XBLA.

So, no, I don't think they'll surprise me. At least not in a way that'll make me happy.
 
their reveal will be nothing but watching kids sit on a couch playing the new kinext2.0.

Then they will go on about how ads and xbl will be awesome and then show games that look like current gen but spiced up. Finally show ends. Thats ms plan. And you all will want it and buy it and support them. Enjoy!
 

Vinci

Danish
I have no doubt that MS could surprise us with any variant of announcements, but knowing the company it will likely be a mixed bag for most GAF members.
 
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