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Parmenides · May 9, 2013

Sorry. Net Income ->$458M

FY12 Sony Corporation (Reported in Millions of U.S. dollars)

Sales ---> $72,349

Operating Income ---> $2,448

Net Income ---> $458

------------------------------------------------

Game (Reported in Millions of U.S. dollars)

Sales ---> $7,522

Operating Income ---> $18

FY12 Hardware Unit Sales (Unit: Million)

Code:

 Console   Ap-Jn'12    Jl-Sp'12    Oc-Dc'12    Ja-Mr'13    FY12     FY13 FCT

 PS3/PS2     2.8         3.5         6.8         3.4       16.5     10.0 (PS3 FCT)

  360        1.1         1.7         5.9         1.3       10.0        -

  Wii        0.71        0.61        2.21        0.45      3.98       2.00   

  Wii U       -           -          3.06        0.39      3.45       9.00
  
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Handheld   Ap-Jn'12    Jl-Sp'12    Oc-Dc'12    Ja-Mr'13    FY12     FY13 FCT

  3DS        1.86        3.20        7.65        1.24      13.95      18.0

 PSV/PSP     1.4         1.6         2.7         1.3       7.0        5.0

  NDS        0.54        0.44        1.17        0.20      2.35        -

FY12 Software Unit Sales (Unit: Million)

Code:

 Console   Ap-Jn'12    Jl-Sp'12    Oc-Dc'12    Ja-Mr'13    FY12     FY13 FCT

 PS3/PS2    20.1        41.4        61.7        30.7       153.9       -
 
  Wii       8.47        15.27       21.34       5.53       50.61     20.00   

  Wii U      -           -          11.69       1.73       13.42     38.00
  
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Handheld   Ap-Jn'12    Jl-Sp'12    Oc-Dc'12    Ja-Mr'13    FY12     FY13 FCT

  3DS       7.39        11.64       20.53       10.05      49.61     80.00

 PSV/PSP    5.8         8.7         8.9         5.4        28.8        -

  NDS       8.48        8.82        12.94       3.14       33.38     10.00

LTD Sales (Unit: Million)

Code:

Console     LTD HW               LTD SW           

 PS2    155.1 + FY12 PS2     1530.0 + FY12 PS2

 PS1        102.49               962.00           

 Wii        99.84                869.06           

 PS3    80.4  FY12 PS2      748.9  FY12 PS2    

 360        77.2                   ?   
             
 Wii U      3.45                 13.42               

-------------------------------------------------

Handheld    LTD HW              LTD  SW           

 NDS        153.87              933.69

 GB         118.69              501.11     

 GBA        81.51               377.42       

 PSP    76.3 + FY12 PSP     330.2 + FY12 PSP

 3DS        31.09               95.03                

 PSV          ?                   ?

PS3 Unit Sales (Unit: Million)

Code:

 HW      Ap-Jn     Jl-Sp     Oc-Dc     Ja-Mr      FY        LTD

FY06       -         -        1.7       1.8       3.5       3.5

FY07      0.7       1.3       4.9       2.2       9.1       12.6 

FY08      1.6       2.4       4.5       1.6       10.1      22.7 

FY09      1.1       3.2       6.5       2.2       13.0      35.7

FY10      2.4       3.5       6.3       2.1       14.3      50.0

FY11      1.8       3.7       6.5       1.9       13.9      63.9

FY12      2.8-PS2   3.5-PS2   6.8-PS2   3.4-PS2   16.5-PS2  80.4 - FY12 PS2

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

 SW      Ap-Jn    Jl-Sp     Oc-Dc     Ja-Mr       FY        LTD

FY06      -         -        5.2       8.1       13.3       13.3

FY07     4.7       10.4      26.0      16.8      57.9       71.2 
 
FY08     22.8      21.2      40.8      18.9      103.7      174.9 

FY09     14.8      23.9      47.6      29.3      115.6      290.5

FY10     24.8      35.3      57.6      30.2      147.9      438.4

FY11     26.1      37.4      66.2      26.9      156.6      595.0

FY12     20.1-PS2  41.4-PS2  61.7-PS2  30.7-PS2  153.9-PS2  748.9 - FY12 PS2

PSP Unit Sales (Unit: Million)

Code:

 HW      Ap-Jn     Jl-Sp     Oc-Dc     Ja-Mr      FY        LTD

FY09      1.3       3.0       4.2       1.4       9.9       61.5

FY10      1.2       1.5       3.6       1.7       8.0       69.5

FY11      1.8       1.7       2.4       0.9       6.8       76.3

FY12       ?         ?         ?         ?         ?         ?

-------------------------------------------------------------------
 
 SW      Ap-Jn     Jl-Sp     Oc-Dc     Ja-Mr      FY        LTD

FY10      9.2      11.0      16.5       9.9       46.6      298.0

FY11      6.6       8.2       11.4      6.0       32.2      330.2

FY12       ?         ?         ?         ?         ?         ?

PS2 Unit Sales (Unit: Million)

Code:

 HW      Ap-Jn     Jl-Sp     Oc-Dc     Ja-Mr      FY        LTD

FY09      1.6       1.9       2.1       1.7       7.3       144.5

FY10      1.6       1.5       2.1       1.2       6.4       150.9

FY11      1.4       1.2       0.9       0.6       4.1       155.1

FY12       ?         ?         ?         ?         ?         ?   

-------------------------------------------------------------------
 
 SW      Ap-Jn     Jl-Sp     Oc-Dc     Ja-Mr      FY        LTD

FY10      3.4       5.6       5.3       2.1       16.4      1522.1

FY11      1.5       2.8       2.5       1.1       7.9       1530.0

FY12       ?         ?         ?         ?         ?         ?

Sony: PS2 142.8 M; PSP 60.2 M; PS3 33.4 (Q3 FY09)

[URL="http://scei.co.jp/corporate/release/pdf/100520ae.pdf"]Sony: PS2 144.5 M; PSP 61.5 M; PS3 35.7 M (Q4 FY09)

Sony: PS2 146.1 M; PSP 62.7 M; PS3 38.0 M (Q1 FY10)
[/URL]
Sony: PS2 147.6 M (Q2 FY10)

Sony: PS2 SW 1.52 Billion Units (Q3 FY10)

Sony: PS2 150 M (Jan 31, 2011)

[URL="http://www.scei.co.jp/corporate/release/pdf/110607c_e.pdf"]Sony: PSP 70 M (Apr 27,2011)

Sony: PSP SW 298 Million Units (Q4 FY10)

Sony: PS3 50 M (Q4 FY10)
[/URL]
Sony: PS2 153.6 M; PSP 73.0 M; PS3 55.5 M (Q2 FY11)

Sony: PS3 70 M (Nov 4, 2012)

zomgbbqftw · May 9, 2013

No PS4 sales forecast.

PS3 forecast of 10m. PSP/Vita forecast of 5m.

Group Q4 operating profit of $1.5bn, net profit of $999m.

shinra-bansho · May 9, 2013

Still combining. Somebody better ask them why they're obstructing investors from getting a clear picture of product unit sales in the earnings call.

Tyrax · May 9, 2013

dooooooooomed

/s

China Dont Care · May 9, 2013

Will all that go into Playstation or do they have any hardware coming out.

specialguy · May 9, 2013

Geez how are they shipping so many playstations? 3.4 million?

PS2 or no, that's fricken crazy, and I really dont see the PS3 sales to justify it (considering USA+media create sales are going to be quite stagnant to declining this late in the gen)

maybe they shipped a last surge of PS2's??

AkIRA_22 · May 9, 2013

Hardware wise do Sony and MS actually care if they get sold? I mean, obviously they do want them sold to increase software sales, but their numbers, are they always shipped, or sold?

zomgbbqftw said:
No PS4 sales forecast.

They won't make that public until it looks like they will achieve it, or the investors demand it.

specialguy · May 9, 2013

shinra-bansho said:
Still combining. Somebody better ask them why they're obstructing investors from getting a clear picture of product unit sales in the earnings call.

yeah, somebody on another board had said they said they were going back to splitting them this time.

i guess he was wrong, and i'm disappointed.

GhaleonEB · May 9, 2013

AkIRA_22 said:
They won't make that public until it looks like they will achieve it, or the investors demand it.

They probably need to be closer to launch so as to have a better idea of how many they can produce before making external forecasts.

metalslimer · May 9, 2013

zomgbbqftw said:
No PS4 sales forecast.

PS3 forecast of 10m. PSP/Vita forecast of 5m.

Group Q4 operating profit of $1.5bn, net profit of $999m.

lol, has to be the biggest drop off prediction from launch year ever and they still won't achieve that. PSP has dried up in Japan now.

Also interesting PS3 predictions. I wonder if they're even going to do a price drop of the PS3 or if they think having a 200 dollar console would hurt PS4.

Edit: Holy crap at that dropoff in TV sales. Hopefully 4k helps although it probably won't for this year.

Mikey Jr. · May 9, 2013

Is this, good, bad? I dunno. Too many fucking numbers.

M.D · May 9, 2013

Any numbers for Xperia Z sales?

Raonak · May 9, 2013

specialguy said:
Geez how are they shipping so many playstations? 3.4 million?

PS2 or no, that's fricken crazy, and I really dont see the PS3 sales to justify it (considering USA+media create sales are going to be quite stagnant to declining this late in the gen)

maybe they shipped a last surge of PS2's??

Well, PS3 tends to sell quite well in EU+other regions, it's usually the top selling console unlike japan and US.

Plus they're expanding more in emerging territories.

Wynnebeck · May 9, 2013

metalslimer said:
lol, has to be the biggest drop off prediction from launch year ever and they still won't achieve that.PSP has dried up in Japan now.

Wii U is slowly giving it a run for its money.

ULTROS! · May 9, 2013

So is PS3 second place now?

disappeared · May 9, 2013

Sony really needs to stop lumping the poor old PS2 in there. It did good Sony, it did real good.

Now just let it go.

specialguy · May 9, 2013

Raonak said:
Well, PS3 tends to sell quite well in EU+other regions, it's usually the top selling console unlike japan and US.

Plus they're expanding more in emerging territories.

I simply dont believe it. Look at the past PS3 only shipments, never close to 3.4m for the jan-march Q. Previous Jan-March high was 2.2, and I'm sure measured salas in Japan, USA, and even EU via Nintendo graphs, are flat to down.

The only explanation for this is gonna be "demand must be exploding in Brazil and Saudia Arabia and other places we cant measure!". So I'm sure a lot of people will say just that, sigh.

1st Course · May 9, 2013

Sony reported that 2.2m Vita was sold as of June 30, 2012 (Q1), so subtracting Q1 sales from the rest of the year gives us: 7-1.4= 5.6m Vita/PSP sold for the rest of the year.

Assuming that the Vita made 70% of this number (5.6m), we get the following:

5.6*0.70 = 3.36m units sold in the last 9 months.

2.2 + 3.36= 5.56m LTD sales.

The Vita is definitely 5m+

metalslimer · May 9, 2013

Wynnebeck said:
Wii U is slowly giving it a run for its money.

That's not even possible. To see how bad this is Nintendo only projects to sell 9 million this year. The drop from last year for Vita+PSP is 9 million therefore to match it they would have to discontinue it.

James Sawyer Ford · May 9, 2013

Looks like this make the PS3 officially the second best selling console this gen, ahead of the 360 now.

From last quarter's thread:

James Sawyer Ford said:
FYI

Last year we had numbers for PS3 and PS2 separately:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=461642

Oct-Dec 2011:

PS3: 6.5 Million
PS2: .9 Million

PS3 accounted for 87% of total PS3 + PS2 hardware sales for last year.

PS2 this quarter was recently discontinued, so this hardware split is likely to be 95% PS3 sales, and 5% PS2 sales.

6.8 * (95%) = ~ 6.5M sales for PS3.

Microsoft reported 5.9M console sales this past quarter.

Sony in all likelihood gained around .5 million in sales world wide for the quarter.

As of last quarter, my estimate placed Microsoft ahead by around 1.4M units.

As of this quarter, that's now looking to be less than 1M.

NOTE: PS2 has now been discontinued, though I suppose shipments still existed during the quarter, as small as they may have been.

Let's assume 90% PS3, 10% PS2 -- which is roughly the same ratio it's been selling for a while. That means PS3 sold ~3.06 million. 360 sold 1.1 million this past quarter. Net gain for the PS3 ~1.96 million.

And as of last quarter, estimates placed the 360's lead to 1 million or less, meaning that the PS3 appears to have overtaken the 360 now.

Redhood · May 9, 2013

FY12

NDS + 3DS 13.95+2.35

PSV/PSP 7.0

Not bad I guess!

Loris146 · May 9, 2013

Ps3 is amazing . I suppose 2/2.5 Ml for PS2. So ps3 is now in second place?

shinra-bansho · May 9, 2013

Also an interesting slide:

They expect operating income to be flat overall despite the release of the PS4.

ULTROS! said:
So is PS3 second place now?

Depends on how many PS2s were shipped in the fiscal year. More than 3.2M, the 360 is still ahead. Less than 3.2M, the PS3 is now ahead. They're both exceedingly close anyway.

Into · May 9, 2013

PS2 155.1 + FY12 PS2

PS1 102.49

Wii 99.84

PS3 80.4 – FY12 PS2

360 77.2

Wii U 3.45

The question then is, how much is the PS2 accounting for fiscal ear 2012? Does anyone have PS2 data so we can do their math for them, to get a clear picture here?

I doubt they shipped 3 million PS2s, especially since they stopped production of them a few months ago?

NateDrake · May 9, 2013

Is this saying PSP/PS Vita combined sold more than 3DS in Jan-March 2013?

Hero · May 9, 2013

Still won't give Vita numbers separately? How the fuck do investors put up with that shit?

SMT · May 9, 2013

Dear, and here I was thinking it came in last. Of course, Microsoft hasn't brought enough games to the 360 for a smacktacular swan song festival of releases.

zomgbbqftw · May 9, 2013

Sony, again, have decided not to declare their FX gains. They have $1.7bn worth of FX gains sitting off the balance sheet. If the had declared those gains then the net profit would increase to ~ $2.6bn.

HomerSimpson-Man · May 9, 2013

Sony still shipping PS2s?

That thing is a monster, forever the king.

AkIRA_22 · May 9, 2013

ULTROS! said:
So is PS3 second place now?

Until MS release numbers, I guess so. Though I personally would like to know the PS2 numbers, I think it's pretty fucking slimy of Sony.

googleplex · May 9, 2013

James Sawyer Ford said:
So, does this make the PS3 officially the second best selling console this gen, ahead of the 360 now?

From last quarter's thread:

NOTE: PS2 has now been discontinued, though I suppose shipments still existed during the quarter, as small as they may have been.

Let's assume 90% PS3, 10% PS2 -- which is roughly the same ratio it's been selling for a while. That means PS3 sold ~2.5 million. 360 sold 1.1 million this past quarter. Net gain for the PS3 ~1.4 million.

And as of last quarter, estimates placed the 360's lead to 1 million or less, meaning that the PS3 appears to have overtaken the 360 now.

Also Cell and RSX just got another die shrink. And I'm expecting another price drop then year.

I'm still holding out hope for a PS3 Backwards compatibility add-on for the PS4.

specialguy · May 9, 2013

James Sawyer Ford said:
So, does this make the PS3 officially the second best selling console this gen, ahead of the 360 now?

From last quarter's thread:

NOTE: PS2 has now been discontinued, though I suppose shipments still existed during the quarter, as small as they may have been.

Let's assume 90% PS3, 10% PS2 -- which is roughly the same ratio it's been selling for a while. That means PS3 sold ~2.5 million. 360 sold 1.1 million this past quarter. Net gain for the PS3 ~1.4 million.

And as of last quarter, estimates placed the 360's lead to 1 million or less, meaning that the PS3 appears to have overtaken the 360 now.

sorry this is bunk. we simply dont know ps2 shipments and never will.

go add up EU, USA, and Japan PS3 sales YoY, I am sure they are flat to down. As you know, happens in year 7.

Yet you're going to tell me PS3 shipments surged massively above the generation highs for Jan-March this generation. more than 50% higher than they've ever shipped before in this Q. Right.

And I'll use the standard defense against "bubu emerging markets". First of all, why did those magically not exist untiil Sony started combining PS3+PS2? Second, major third parties break down their software sales by region, and from those one can easily find out that sales outside Japan, North America, and EU are a pittance. Japan, NA, and EU account for almost all game sales, provably.

metalslimer · May 9, 2013

Hero said:
Still won't give Vita numbers separately? How the fuck do investors put up with that shit?

Do what Sony does? Pretend like it doesn't exist?

Seriously though, do investors actually get separate numbers for these things because combining everything just seems terrible.

SMT · May 9, 2013

HomerSimpson-Man said:
Sony still shipping PS2s?

That thing is a monster, forever the king.

In Brazil, PS2's are still going, last I posted this same exact sentence 8 months ago.

Toki767 · May 9, 2013

Sony overall made a net profit of $948 million. I guess Kaz knew what he was doing.

shinra-bansho · May 9, 2013

Into said:
The question then is, how much is the PS2 accounting for fiscal ear 2012? Does anyone have PS2 data so we can do their math for them, to get a clear picture here?

I doubt they shipped 3 million PS2s, especially since they stopped production of them a few months ago?

I'm not sure, they would have tried to ship the remaining inventory they had during this fiscal year I imagine.

They said that unit sales for the PS3 decreased in the Earnings Release. And their forecast for the upcoming FY for PS3 is only 10M.

Based on that I'd put my entirely speculative guess at PS3 sales at around 12M.

zomgbbqftw said:
Sony, again, have decided not to declare their FX gains. They have $1.7bn worth of FX gains sitting off the balance sheet. If the had declared those gains then the net profit would increase to ~ $2.6bn.

Also very interesting. Are they essentially "saving" this in case they need to use such a declaration to avoid a net loss?

James Sawyer Ford · May 9, 2013

specialguy said:
sorry this is bunk. we simply dont know ps2 shipments and never will.

go add up EU, USA, and Japan PS3 sales YoY, I am sure they are flat to down. As you know, happens in year 7.

Yet you're going to tell me PS3 shipments surged massively above the generation highs for Jan-March this generation. more than 50% higher than they've ever shipped before in this Q. Right.

We knew them as of december of 2011, where PS3 sold 87% compared to the PS2's 13% if you do the ratios.

And surely it's been dropping from that ratio ever since, especially now with PS2's discontinued.

So yeah, it's highly likely now that PS3 has around a 1 million lead on the 360.

If you're saying the numbers are "bunk", then you're saying Sony is lying.

I don't think it's that inconceivable that they had a fairly strong quarter - lots of high profile third party game releases and God of War + strength of emerging markets.

Mikey Jr. · May 9, 2013

Wish they would drop the numbers and use descriptions instead such as

Excellent- Wow! We sold that many?!!?
Good- Atleast did better than the Wii!
Decent- We still have not tapped into the lucrative Chilean market.
Poor- We are planning on selling 4 more buildings.
Bad- For our next report, we will be combing the PS3/PS2/PS1/PSV/PSP/MiniDisc into 1 number to streamline our report.

guit3457 · May 9, 2013

Toki767 said:
Sony overall made a net profit of $948 million. I guess Kaz knew what he was doing.

Being a real state agent? LoL

Loris146 · May 9, 2013

Sony is back operative after 5 years i guess...or i'm wrong?

shinra-bansho · May 9, 2013

James Sawyer Ford said:
We knew them as of december of 2011, where PS3 sold 87% compared to the PS2's 13% if you do the ratios.

And surely it's been dropping from that ratio ever since, especially now with PS2's discontinued.

So yeah, it's highly likely now that PS3 has around a 1 million lead on the 360.

PS3 unit sales decreased in FY12 from FY11, from which we can determine that 13.9M is the maximum for FY12, so your guess is not possible.

James Sawyer Ford · May 9, 2013

shinra-bansho said:
I'm not sure, they would have tried to ship the remaining inventory they had during this fiscal year I imagine.

They said that unit sales for the PS3 decreased in the Earnings Release. And their forecast for the upcoming FY for PS3 is only 10M.

Based on that I'd put my entirely speculative guess at PS3 sales at around 12M.
Also very interesting. Are they essentially "saving" this in case they need to use such a declaration to avoid a net loss?

Perhaps to offset any large PS4 losses that may be exhibited early on? That's a strong possibility.

Into · May 9, 2013

ULTROS! said:
So is PS3 second place now?

Hard to make that call, probably. But "probably" is not good enough, they will likely get second place eventually

James Sawyer Ford said:
We knew them as of december of 2011, where PS3 sold 87% compared to the PS2's 13% if you do the ratios.

And surely it's been dropping from that ratio ever since, especially now with PS2's discontinued.

So yeah, it's highly likely now that PS3 has around a 1 million lead on the 360.

Yeah i imagine that number has been going down steadily since PS3s release, do we have any sort of numbers from previous years 2008, 2009, 2010?

The PS2's ratio could be anywhere from 5% to 13%, but considering we are in 2013, i would bet its not 13%, its like you said, most likely lower, question is how much lower.

1st Course · May 9, 2013

James Sawyer Ford said:
We knew them as of december of 2011, where PS3 sold 87% compared to the PS2's 13% if you do the ratios.

And surely it's been dropping from that ratio ever since, especially now with PS2's discontinued.

So yeah, it's highly likely now that PS3 has around a 1 million lead on the 360.

PS3 having a 1m lead over the 360 means that the PS3 sold 14m unit this FY. PS3 sales is down this year I think.

Tratorn · May 9, 2013

Wasnt their prediction for ps3/ps2 like 15m?
1.5m more seems really good.

James Sawyer Ford · May 9, 2013

shinra-bansho said:
PS3 unit sales decreased in FY12 from FY11, from which we can determine that 13.9M is the maximum for FY12, so your guess is not possible.

Decreased in shipments or sold at retail? Which guess is not possible.

shinra-bansho · May 9, 2013

James Sawyer Ford said:
Decreased in shipments or sold at retail? Which guess is not possible.

Reference to unit sales in the earnings release is referring to Sony's unit sales. The PS3 being ahead by 1M is not possible; if the PS3 shipped 13.8M units in FY12, which I doubt, it would be at 77.7M, 0.5M above the 360 LTD.

jambo · May 9, 2013

M.D said:
Any numbers for Xperia Z sales?

Nothing official yet, but:

http://gadgets.ndtv.com/mobiles/news/sony-xperia-z-sales-top-46-million-in-40-days-report-354794

NateDrake · May 9, 2013

What would cause the PS3/PS2 sales to jump so much in Jan-March 2013? It nearly doubles all previous years for the same time-frame.

big youth · May 9, 2013

It must be legal to combine similar units (PS2/3, PSP/Vita) so Sony wisely takes advantage of it. I remember there was one quarter where they only combined handhelds, then next quarter they started combining the console as well to make it more uniform and less suspicious.

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Sony FY12: $400M Net Income; PS3/PS2 16.5M; Vita/PSP 5M forecast

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