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EDGE: Virtual Reality on PS4 and Xbone – the real next-gen?

Bundy

Banned
Virtual reality on PS4 and Xbox One – the real next-gen?

Mounting evidence suggests that Sony and Microsoft will each launch firstparty peripherals for PS4 and Xbox One with virtual reality capabilities.

Development sources have told us that PS4’s own “Oculus beater” will launch much sooner than Microsoft’s own wearable tech, of which little is known. It is expected, however, to be an internet-connected headset more akin to Google Glass.

The PlayStation VR headset is indeed real and was close to being announced earlier this year, as widely rumoured. The announcement was held back, say our sources, as Sony didn’t want to complicate its messaging before PS4’s launchdate. Devkits have not been sent out to studios just yet, but one contact said that he expected to hear more about it soon – most likely once we’re clear of the launch window. The project should not be confused with Sony’s existing HMZ range of 3D headsets – it is a PlayStation product, designed specifically for use with PlayStation 4, said one developer.

Our contacts knew nothing of Microsoft’s own forthcoming wearable tech – but reports across the media, most recently from The Wall Street Journal, describe a broader featureset and a direct competitor to Google Glass. Currently, the reports suggest that it is not explicitly linked with the Xbox division, and none of our contacts have heard anything from Microsoft on the matter, though the platform holder is apparently aware of Sony’s more fully developed VR proposition. The need for Microsoft’s Xbox One to compete with Sony’s PS4 on every viable battlefront suggests that Xbox One-compatible wearable tech is a matter of when, not if.

“We’ve put USB 3.0 ports on Xbox One for a reason, which is that we want high bandwidth communication with other accessory or companion devices,” Microsoft’s Phil Harrison told us recently. ”I’m not going to speculate but we definitely designed the platform to extend over time.”

From a business and console lifecycle perspective, both headsets might be considered next-gen’s own Kinect and Move – additive technology intended to provide a sales fillip further into a console’s lifecycle. Where Wii’s motion tech once dazzled new players and opened up new frontiers, prompting Microsoft and Sony to release their own interpretations of that concept, it appears that Oculus Rift and Google Glass have stepped into the role of pioneer this time around.

Unlike the current generation, however, Sony’s VR headset is expected to arrive much sooner. Perhaps the platform holder, in keeping with the narrative it has been careful to set out for itself this year, really has been listening to the world’s game developers; it’s not next-gen consoles capturing the imagination among creators – it’s Oculus Rift.

For $300 any studio can buy and dabble with an Oculus SDK, and the level of VC funding the company has attracted in the last year shows that investors are as convinced as many developers are. It is significant that Oculus isn’t interested in partnering with the console manufacturers – it is concentrating entirely on tying its fortunes to PC and mobile, more open and developer-friendly platforms.

In contrast, creating virtual reality games on PS4 and Xbox One appears to be a more troublesome prospect for developers. Proprietary tech for each console could be one stumbling block; the barriers and bureaucracy involved in releasing games on consoles another.

And already, developing high-end, next-gen console games that take full advantage of PS4 and Xbox One’s capabilities requires the kind of finance and scale relatively few studios can claim to have. Infamously, even Infinity Ward, proprietor of the world’s biggest, most lucrative shooter, has struggled to get the best from one next-gen console. And conceptually, latching VR capability onto a triple-A shooter might only be a compelling idea for those already worshipping at the altar of high-end console gaming.

Further down the scale, it’s already very difficult for more modest studios to make decent money from the PlayStation and Xbox storefronts, judging by anecdotal evidence. Many critically acclaimed releases haven’t made the money one might expect, and there are only a handful of studios that have made their fortunes on PSN and XBLA; kudos can’t pay the bills. Though Sony and Microsoft are doing their utmost to attract as many developers to PS4 and Xbox One as possible, it would be quite a turnaround for their respective download stores to suddenly become as financially viable as Steam, for example.

There are further obstacles to overcome before we see that futuristic vision of virtual reality games in every living room. Motion sickness is an ongoing problem with no easy solution, and VR will need its own Wii Sports – a neat, brilliant, broadly accessible encapsulation of what the tech can do – if it is to become something more significant than a tech-fetishist’s fantasy. Whoever gets there first with that killer app, be it an indie with a bright idea for Oculus or one of Sony and Microsoft’s internal studios, will surely reap fantastic rewards.

The wildcard here is Valve. Conceptually, Sony and Microsoft’s relatively closed platforms feel increasingly dated, so Valve’s Steam Machines might be a better fit for the budding VR game developer. In its existing 65 million active Steam users Valve has a willing, knowledgeable gamesplaying audience, and one not afraid to experiment. And Valve clearly believes in the idea of virtual reality games – when it added Oculus Rift support to Team Fortress 2, it became one of the first high profile developers to throw its weight behind the tech. Senior developers at Valve have given GDC talks on the subject of VR games and more recently, former Valve staffer Jeri Ellsworth’s castAR Kickstarter campaign emerged and with it, all of the knowledge gleaned from researching AR and VR tech at her former employer. One can imagine that if Valve itself doesn’t release its own VR/AR hardware, it’ll do its best to ensure the success of similar tech, like Oculus and castAR, on its platform.

So in PlayStation and Xbox we see the established videogame brands with powerful marketing and distribution networks – the ones truly able to bring VR games to the masses. And in Oculus Rift and Valve, we see agile, technology-first companies with open, developer-friendly platforms. One suspects that the best possible outcome for VR games would be a combination of those forces, rather than the competing, proprietary Sony and Microsoft hardware we expect.

It is early days for virtual reality games, but they are coming to PS4 and Xbox One. If Sony and Microsoft are to succeed in popularising the medium, they might need to beat Valve and Oculus to it.

Link:
 

solarus

Member
I doubt these consoles have the power to do VR justice, it'll probably be a compromised experience, only the pc can deliver.
 

gofreak

GAF's Bob Woodward
Something more like Google Glass and augmented reality sounds realistic for MS. It'll be less intensive on pixel pushing than full on VR.
 
Would be pretty awkward to have to unplug your tv, plug in the rift and then be tethered N-meters from your console.

Plus, lets say the rift comes out with a 2560x1600 screen at 90 or 120 hz. good luck pushing those frames on a console without it looking like ass.

Even if its only 1080p 60fps, the graphics will age pretty fast in a few years. publishers can't just lower res or framerate for VR.
 

jaypah

Member
Something more like Google Glass and augmented reality sounds realistic for MS. It'll be less intensive on pixel pushing than full on VR.

Yup and I've said before that I'd rather MS go for simpler AR and Sony to go for VR because I love both approaches and I'd like to have different experiences considering I'm buying both consoles.
 

DJIzana

Member
I don't know if VR is next-gen, but having tested the Oculus Rift, I am certain it's the future.

I dunno how I'd trust it for games with multiple particle effects and spells or playing like an MMO like FFXIV in a huge raid or something... I could see that giving people seizures.
 

AnnTiPa

Member
Every time I hear news about console VR I get scared because in an interview someone from CCP was outright refusing to say that Eve Valkyrie would be released on PC. If it won't release on PC because Sony and MS need to get (inferior) VR exclusives, it's a sad day for all humanity.
 
Would be pretty awkward to have to unplug your tv, plug in the rift and then be tethered N-meters from your console.

Plus, lets say the rift comes out with a 2560x1600 screen at 90 or 120 hz. good luck pushing those frames on a console without it looking like ass.

Except you don't need a screen with a 120hz refresh rate or a 2560x1600 resolution. The 1080p model is just fine, and I don't see how the PS4 would struggle to run that.
 

amdnv

Member
I don't know if VR is next-gen, but having tested the Oculus Rift, I am certain it's the future.
It is indeed. However, having tested it myself, I must admit that I will not use it for gaming until the unit's resolution has been increased to at least 1080p (luckily, a 4K version is already planned). The visible pixels and overall blurriness completely killed the experience for me.
 

flkraven

Member
VR looks fun, but I don't think it is the next evolution of gaming. Just like motion games, it is a fun gimmick but I prefer laying back on my couch and staring at a TV.
 

solarus

Member
Not this bullshit again.
These consoles struggle to do 1080p 60fps, and you expect them to deliver a VR experience (which needs a consistent frame rate) at a resolution that isn't shitty 720p and without having the visuals noticeably downgraded? That's wishful thinking to say the least
 
I can't see either console having the power to do VR at an acceptable resolution and frame rate. Not that Microsoft and Sony won't try anyway.
 
Except you don't need a screen with a 120hz refresh rate or a 2560x1600 resolution. The 1080p model is just fine, and I don't see how the PS4 would struggle to run that.


It wouldn't. Despite what PC elitist will tell you, it th the PS4 could run VR experiences on a 1080p Oculus like device.

If Sony uses an approach simular to the Oculus.(One screen split between two view points) it will also benefit from all of the VR development currently being done on PC.
 

Conezays

Member
These consoles struggle to do 1080p 60fps, and you expect them to deliver a VR experience (which needs a consistent frame rate) at a resolution that isn't shitty 720p and without having the visuals noticeably downgraded? That's wishful thinking to say the least

My thoughts exactly. Seems completely pointless to even bother pushing something like this with the inability to lock down 1080p/60FPS in the first place. If that can't be secured consistently, what's the point in pushing for even *more* demanding tech going on behind the scenes?

Sigh.
 
I doubt these consoles have the power to do VR justice, it'll probably be a compromised experience, only the pc can deliver.
Bullshit. Most oculus games run fine on hardware many PC gamers would consider outdated. Can we please keep this PC supremacy shit out of here? The next-gen consoles will both run VR games just fine, but of course a PC will run them even better, provided that you're willing to fork over the cash for the hardware needed.

WE KNOW THIS.

The PS4 at least seems perfectly capable of outputting good graphics at 1080p, so as long as Sony uses the Oculus approach of one 1080p panel split into two with mirrors there shouldn't be any problems.
 

gofreak

GAF's Bob Woodward
My thoughts exactly. Seems completely pointless to even bother pushing something like this with the inability to lock down 1080p/60FPS in the first place. If that can't be secured consistently, what's the point in pushing for even *more* demanding tech going on behind the scenes?

Sigh.

There's a difference between games that push something at the expense of framerate because they can, and games that have hard requirements.

If games have a hard 1080p/60 requirement, there's no reason you can't do that on PS4 or whatever. You're going to have to make sacrifices - in either per-pixel complexity or optimisation time - vs a game that can just suffer the framerate loss, but so be it. It can still be worthwhile. Frankly you could take some PS3-level graphics and put them in a VR context on PS4 and it would be really worthwhile. But PS4 will be capable of more than that again. People have marvelled at playing HL2 with OR. PS4 would certainly be capable of that fidelity of experience and much more.

Not to mention we'll be on second gen software by the time this arrives. And there are some serious tech wizards in Sony's studios. You might be surprised at what's possible.
 

androvsky

Member
There's a difference between games that push something at the expense of framerate because they can, and games that have hard requirements.

If games have a hard 1080p/60 requirement, there's no reason you can't do that on PS4 or whatever. You're going to have to make sacrifices - in either per-pixel complexity or optimisation time - vs a game that can just suffer the framerate loss, but so be it. It can still be worthwhile. Frankly you could take some PS3-level graphics and put them in a VR context on PS4 and it would be really worthwhile. But PS4 will be capable of more than that again.

Not to mention we'll be on second gen software by the time this arrives. And there are some serious tech wizards in Sony's studios.
Exactly. And if rushed launch titles that are pushing scene complexity over framerate and resolution are coming close to or hitting 1080p/60, then titles designed for VR will have little trouble hitting the same mark. And if they use the Oculus style display, 1080p/60 is all they'll have to hit. There's no 2x multiplier for 3D.
 

Guevara

Member
VR won't be anything but an expensive niche.

The future looks like the past 25 years: a tv (that families already own), a console, and a controller.
 
Would the remote play streaming tech work for a VR headset/controls? Would mean no awkward cable issues.
Considering how much work Sony has put into remote play(Streaming gameplay wirelessly) , and MS into their smartphone connectivity(Displaying information, but not actual gameplay, on a second screen), I would think this has always been the plan.
 

Alx

Member
I would buy an AR device, but probably not VR (or only for the novelty). Being completely immersed in the virtual world and disconnected from the real one feels a bit too autistic to me.
 

bee

Member
the points about PC seem pretty reasonable to me

Palmer Luckey - Oculus VR said:
Realistically, we're not targeting any specific resolution as "this is the right resolution" because until we get to that 8k by 8k or higher resolution, we just want it to be as high as possible. We're at 1080p in the prototypes that we're showing, but we'd like to push it even beyond that.



vsync -- yes, you really need to do it, or the whole world appears like it's tearing. And you really need at least 60 frames a second. Right now we're saying 60 because that's what our hardware is capable of running, but if we had a display that could run at 90 frames a second, it makes a huge difference. Enough where you're going to want to run at 90 frames a second as often as you can.
 

Marc

Member
Would the remote play streaming tech work for a VR headset/controls? Would mean no awkward cable issues.

Seems made for the job.

Splitting game signal to vita res and upscaling to 1080p for VR. Problem is framerate and the screens ppi. I don't think resolution is as much the VR killer as pixel density would be on the screen itself.

Possible on PS4 imo, headset being the key.
 
Nah. No thank you. I'd rather use my big screen with surround sound system in the comfort of my own couch.

It's good for a niche market, but using it as a standard for gaming? Eh.
 

gofreak

GAF's Bob Woodward
the points about PC seem pretty reasonable to me

It's perfectly reasonable to say 'the PC space affords a scalability in technology that is hard to match in consoles' - and that this is particularly good for the ongoing evolution that VR will need to have.

It's not - IMO - reasonable to say conversely that VR on consoles is pointless, which is what people above were saying.
 
stuff like this is way to laggy for VR.
Engadget said:
Remote Play functionality was similarly impressive. There was zero perceptible lag between PlayStation 4 on-screen action and what we were inputting on the Vita.
You were saying?

Even if you don't have faith in Engadget's impressions, the Wii U manages have less lag on the controller than some TVs. I'm sure Sony can do the same.
 

Ocaso

Member
I doubt these consoles have the power to do VR justice, it'll probably be a compromised experience, only the pc can deliver.

Given that the current Oculus is 1080p at 60fps, what exactly is stopping the PS4 from echoing this experience? It seems to me that, at minimum, it should provide an experience equal to what Oculus currently provides.
 
I want to believe.

Given that the current Oculus is 1080p at 60fps, what exactly is stopping the PS4 from echoing this experience? It seems to me that, at minimum, it should provide an experience equal to what Oculus currently provides.

It has to push that resolution X2 as far as I understand it.
 

Man

Member
I can't see either console having the power to do VR at an acceptable resolution and frame rate. Not that Microsoft and Sony won't try anyway.
Oculus Rift blows my mind at a combined 1280×800 resolution. It makes outdated games like Half-life feel next-gen as hell.

The PS4 delivering a 1920x1080 (@60fps) living room VR experience next fall would be an absolute homerun.
 

coldcrush

Neo Member
seriously its coming, its better than the current oculus, and its going to be a game changer. You will not be able to see the lines on the displays like you can with current oculus.

Imagine all those indie devs on ps4 getting their hands on this. And then for the ''mainstream'' gamers all it will take is for one big AAA game to implement this well, and for it to be then bundled with the VR peripheral.

If people don't feel impressed by 'next gen' graphics and don't feel like they are having a new experience, then playing in VR will literally change the way we play games,
Even games that don't traditionally work with VR. For example a 3rd person game, you could still have vr elements,, or even create a VR huge screen that is effectively like playing on a huge huge tv, only with no outside distractions,
either way you are completely immersed. If you have not tried modern day VR yet then this will blow your mind. I hope that it goes at a reasonable price point, and or is bundled with the console, or a killer title.
I might sound like I am ranting about this but it is the future and like smart phone technology over the next 10 years the leaps we will see will be insane....
Specifically in regards to Sony, they have their shit together with this, I am sure.
 

Nymerio

Member
Exactly. And if rushed launch titles that are pushing scene complexity over framerate and resolution are coming close to or hitting 1080p/60, then titles designed for VR will have little trouble hitting the same mark. And if they use the Oculus style display, 1080p/60 is all they'll have to hit. There's no 2x multiplier for 3D.

Wait, you still have to render two views right? Just because the rift uses only one screen doesn't mean that you don't have to do 3D. Or am I missing something?
 

gofreak

GAF's Bob Woodward
Wait, you still have to render two views right? Just because the rift uses only one screen doesn't mean that you don't have to do 3D. Or am I missing something?

You'll have double the vertex work, but if it was - say - a single 1080p screen, you'd be doing two views with 1080p/2 pixels each - i.e. the same amount of pixel work as 1080p.
 
Oculus Rift blows my mind at a combined 1280×800 resolution. It makes outdated games like Half-life feel next-gen as hell.

The PS4 delivering a 1920x1080 (@60fps) living room VR experience next fall would be an absolute homerun.


If Sony can produce a good VR device at a good price point it will be a grand slam. Theoretically, Sony should be able to produce a Oculus like device cheaper then the Rift guys just due to their superior supply chain for 5 inch 1080p panels and manufacturering partnerships.


Although part if me hopes Sony uses 2x 720p screens for better FoV, and but I'll take what I can get.
 
Am I the only one who has zero interest in the Oculus Rift and other VR headsets? The idea of completely cutting myself off from reality to immerse myself in one of things like a sensory depravation chamber...I dunno, just can't see the appeal.
 
K

kittens

Unconfirmed Member
I'm so fucking excited to see where this tech goes.
 
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