-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Microsoft tracking their eyes on the FOVE VR headset.
- Thread starter Xbudz
- Start date
thesuperfunk
Member
MS jumping on that VR bandwagon then.
sixteen-bit
Member
I bet Next gen consoles will launch with VR headsets.
Graphics Horse
Member
Microsoft have an interest in eye tracking for a while
http://research.microsoft.com/apps/video/default.aspx?id=173013
You need a really high resolution screen to best make use of that*, but only have to draw high detail where the user is looking.
*but same goes for any VR.
http://research.microsoft.com/apps/video/default.aspx?id=173013
You need a really high resolution screen to best make use of that*, but only have to draw high detail where the user is looking.
*but same goes for any VR.
Danlord
Member
Microsoft did well to purchase the Isreali company whom created the Kinect technology and the original Kinect was successful, this will definitely make the VR space more open and competitive.
The name FOVE, I'm sure it comes from the name "fovea" which is the part of the eye which sees the sharp details.. A huge thing would be foveal rendering, whereby only the area in which the eye is looking at gets rendered at a higher resolution and detail and the surrounding area much less, thus freeing resources. This is a good video I watched a while ago that explains some of it; YouTube Link
If they could get an applicable foveal rendering solution, perhaps with the weaker specs compared to PS4 they could creatively bridge the gap in aesthetics through that route, although that's IF that type of rendering is plausible.
The name FOVE, I'm sure it comes from the name "fovea" which is the part of the eye which sees the sharp details.. A huge thing would be foveal rendering, whereby only the area in which the eye is looking at gets rendered at a higher resolution and detail and the surrounding area much less, thus freeing resources. This is a good video I watched a while ago that explains some of it; YouTube Link
If they could get an applicable foveal rendering solution, perhaps with the weaker specs compared to PS4 they could creatively bridge the gap in aesthetics through that route, although that's IF that type of rendering is plausible.
I thought Apple bought them out?
GrizzleBoy
Banned
Something something retina scanner something NSA wet dream something this and that and what-no.
Tinfoilery aside, I literally can't wait till this VR development period reaches top gear.
Sitting in a bucket seat playing project cars with a wheel and pedals paired with a fully developed VR experience?
I want it, inside of me.
Come on tech world, make it happen.
Tinfoilery aside, I literally can't wait till this VR development period reaches top gear.
Sitting in a bucket seat playing project cars with a wheel and pedals paired with a fully developed VR experience?
I want it, inside of me.
Come on tech world, make it happen.
Hmm I don't think Nintendo will follow the crowd and do virtual reality. Beside Virtual reality will be a fad, I don't see it sticking around.
Graphics Horse
Member
Yeah they did. MS never bought PrimeSense, just licenced their tech.
Danlord
Member
This is what I was thinking of; http://www.tgdaily.com/games-and-en...-buys-israeli-company-linked-to-project-natal
Alx
Member
Yup, MS did buy another Israeli company with depth cam technology prior to the first kinect release though, 3DV. And also an American one, Canesta. I suppose either their patents or their technology is in the new kinect, since that one is built by MS themselves.
Graphics Horse
Member
Ah yeah, from the sounds of it that may have become Kinect 2 then, my bad.
sixteen-bit
Member
Yeah, after Virtual Boy, I can definitely see Nintendo shying away from VR headsets.
Sony and Microsoft's VR headsets will probably support Xbox One and PS4. I doubt they'll leave the idea lingering until next gen.
Alx
Member
Eye tracking can be used in AR too, which seems to be one of MS active projets (or at least it was when their 2010 roadmap leaked). But accepting them in an accelerator program is a bit early to assume they intend to use their tech. Are there other examples of companies going through that program, and do we know what became of their activity ?
Xbudz
Member
Very interesting videos. Foveal rendering could certainly help Xbox One's performance gap for VR games.
Caayn
Member
Eye tracking? You've got my attention.
They'll be merely dipping their toes in the water just like with Move and Kinect last gen, at least that what I'm thinking.
Perfect Cha0s
Member
I wonder how latency factors into this thing. Admittedly I don't know a ton about the tech, but wouldn't the cameras (assuming it uses cameras) and then the software used to interpret the eye movement from the cameras and turn it into a useable input introduce a lot more latency than any sort of accelerometer-based solution?
They should rather agree on a single VR standard. VR headsets are too expensive for people to buy several of those and it's only going to hurt everyone in the market, if they fragmentize it too much.
Alx
Member
Well accelerometers will always be faster, but they wouldn't help with eye tracking (or that would hurt
)Some special cameras can be fast too, especially when they are dedicated to a specific task (optical mice are basically cameras tracking the motion of the table, for example).
ScepticMatt
Member
Every good VR system needs eye tracking, especially at resolutions >1080p
See: Eye tracking for VR: A game changer
See: Eye tracking for VR: A game changer
BruiserBear
Banned
Remember 6 years ago when everyone thought the next consoles would launch with motion controls? I do.
D
Deleted member 13876
Unconfirmed Member
They did?
loaf of bread
Member
I actually hope MS doesn't get into VR. I don't want to have to buy 2 different $300 headsets.
EDIT: Wasn't Sony the one researching eye-tracking? I remember that being shown off at the launch event. I would think they'd be the ones to do this.
EDIT: Wasn't Sony the one researching eye-tracking? I remember that being shown off at the launch event. I would think they'd be the ones to do this.
Chairmanchuck
Member
Isnt Kinect for the PC already 200$? OR is aiming for about 300$ for their solution...
I wonder what MS would want for their VR solution then.
Virtual Reality is far from a fad, if done right. Obviously pricing plays a big part in getting it through the public, but it has the potential to be a massive change to the way we interpret many life situations, including gaming.
I don't know. I'm not really concerned over the price, nor interested in Kinect. I just meant to say that I feel VR, especially in its early stage needs an open platform to thrive. It would be especially sad to see an investment go into say this FOVE VR headset and then limit it by only releasing it on a closed platform, one that is already relatively weak to modern hardware.
Usually any product we know about has already had tons of money poured into it. Too late!
Eyetracking is definetly an integral part of an advanced VR solution.
With it, you can get foveated rendering - a very useful way of reducing the fill-rate requirements of the high resolutions required for resolution immersive VR (to get a 'retina' density over the FOV of typical advanced VR, you'd need 8k+ resolution).
You can also get tracking for things like text reading - the system can tell what lines you have or haven't read - and can help to improve your reading ability. It can be combined with novel reading systems like the flash card system that helps improve reading speed.
You can activate areas of UI based on eye focus - i.e. you can minimize all HUD elements for immersion, and then only expand them once your eyes are looking in the area.
But most importantly... is you can track user eyes to show people where they're looking at or around in game. It's a simple feature - but it relays information about a person's state of mind to another, which is extremely important and immersive modality of interaction in both reality and VR.
The idea of tracking someone's gaze in real life is so important that it's become an evolutionary feature - the scelera of our eyes have grown in order for it to be easier to see where people are looking - which communicates state of mind, intentionality and leads to ability to trust - a doubtless important social-evolutionary feature.
Also, inside and outside facing cameras on a VR headset are among the features that Oculus want to include if not in CR then in iterations beyond.
With it, you can get foveated rendering - a very useful way of reducing the fill-rate requirements of the high resolutions required for resolution immersive VR (to get a 'retina' density over the FOV of typical advanced VR, you'd need 8k+ resolution).
You can also get tracking for things like text reading - the system can tell what lines you have or haven't read - and can help to improve your reading ability. It can be combined with novel reading systems like the flash card system that helps improve reading speed.
You can activate areas of UI based on eye focus - i.e. you can minimize all HUD elements for immersion, and then only expand them once your eyes are looking in the area.
But most importantly... is you can track user eyes to show people where they're looking at or around in game. It's a simple feature - but it relays information about a person's state of mind to another, which is extremely important and immersive modality of interaction in both reality and VR.
The idea of tracking someone's gaze in real life is so important that it's become an evolutionary feature - the scelera of our eyes have grown in order for it to be easier to see where people are looking - which communicates state of mind, intentionality and leads to ability to trust - a doubtless important social-evolutionary feature.
Also, inside and outside facing cameras on a VR headset are among the features that Oculus want to include if not in CR then in iterations beyond.
Chairmanchuck
Member
Yeah. I know what you mean. I wish MS, OR and Sony will establish a VR-standard.
So which console out right now doesn't have motion tracking technology inside their controller?
Uh.. Xbox.
It has IR LEDs in the top of the controller to be tracked by kinect for motion tracking. That is an outside-in positional tracking system, same as the Playstation Move.
So nope.
serversurfer
Member
Do they actually use those for positional tracking? I thought they were just to identify which controller was which, and any motion tracking was done with the depth cam.
Yes, Dead Rising 3 uses them for positional tracking of the controller. Cover the IR LEDs on the controller, and it won't respond.
EDIT: There is not a single current gen gaming platform out today that doesn't have some form of motion controls. Everything - iOS, Android, 3DS, Playstation Vita, Xbox One, Playstation 4, WiiU, and even the Steam Controller all have gyroscopes, inertia measurement units, or some form of positional tracking identification (i.e.IR LEDs) inside.
Even the Dualshock 3 has motion controls. Journey, Tools of Desutrction, several games use it.
Yup. Essentially, since the wii came out, there has yet to be a single system without motion controls. Which makes the claims about it being a fad really funny to me - they actually did catch and stick on. They just are expected now, it's no longer a big deal.
BruiserBear
Banned
There were frequent posts on this forum in 2007-2010 saying things like "I hope we don't have to play COD on the next Playstation with a motion wand". A lot of people thought it was going to take over the industry.
People were talking about motion controls replacing standard controllers. That clearly hasn't happened, and we know it's not going to happen.
So it wasn't a fad? Which motion control games are you looking forward to right now?