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After Americans Visit, Uganda Weighs Death for Gays

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Magni

Member
January 4, 2010
After Americans Visit, Uganda Weighs Death for Gays

By JEFFREY GETTLEMAN

KAMPALA, Uganda — Last March, three American evangelical Christians, whose teachings about “curing” homosexuals have been widely discredited in the United States, arrived here in Uganda’s capital to give a series of talks.

The theme of the event, according to Stephen Langa, its Ugandan organizer, was “the gay agenda — that whole hidden and dark agenda” — and the threat homosexuals posed to Bible-based values and the traditional African family.

For three days, according to participants and audio recordings, thousands of Ugandans, including police officers, teachers and national politicians, listened raptly to the Americans, who were presented as experts on homosexuality. The visitors discussed how to make gay people straight, how gay men often sodomized teenage boys and how “the gay movement is an evil institution” whose goal is “to defeat the marriage-based society and replace it with a culture of sexual promiscuity.”

Now the three Americans are finding themselves on the defensive, saying they had no intention of helping stoke the kind of anger that could lead to what came next: a bill to impose a death sentence for homosexual behavior.

One month after the conference, a previously unknown Ugandan politician, who boasts of having evangelical friends in the American government, introduced the Anti-Homosexuality Bill of 2009, which threatens to hang homosexuals, and, as a result, has put Uganda on a collision course with Western nations.

Donor countries, including the United States, are demanding that Uganda’s government drop the proposed law, saying it violates human rights, though Uganda’s minister of ethics and integrity (who previously tried to ban miniskirts) recently said, “Homosexuals can forget about human rights.”

The Ugandan government, facing the prospect of losing millions in foreign aid, is now indicating that it will back down, slightly, and change the death penalty provision to life in prison for some homosexuals. But the battle is far from over.

Instead, Uganda seems to have become a far-flung front line in the American culture wars, with American groups on both sides, the Christian right and gay activists, pouring in support and money as they get involved in the broader debate over homosexuality in Africa.

“It’s a fight for their lives,” said Mai Kiang, a director at the Astraea Lesbian Foundation for Justice, a New York-based group that has channeled nearly $75,000 to Ugandan gay rights activists and expects that amount to grow.

The three Americans who spoke at the conference — Scott Lively, a missionary who has written several books against homosexuality, including “7 Steps to Recruit-Proof Your Child”; Caleb Lee Brundidge, a self-described former gay man who leads “healing seminars”; and Don Schmierer, a board member of Exodus International, whose mission is “mobilizing the body of Christ to minister grace and truth to a world impacted by homosexuality” — are now trying to distance themselves from the bill.

“I feel duped,” Mr. Schmierer said, arguing that he had been invited to speak on “parenting skills” for families with gay children. He acknowledged telling audiences how homosexuals could be converted into heterosexuals, but he said he had no idea some Ugandans were contemplating the death penalty for homosexuality.

“That’s horrible, absolutely horrible,” he said. “Some of the nicest people I have ever met are gay people.”

Mr. Lively and Mr. Brundidge have made similar remarks in interviews or statements issued by their organizations. But the Ugandan organizers of the conference admit helping draft the bill, and Mr. Lively has acknowledged meeting with Ugandan lawmakers to discuss it. He even wrote on his blog in March that someone had likened their campaign to “a nuclear bomb against the gay agenda in Uganda.” Later, when confronted with criticism, Mr. Lively said he was very disappointed that the legislation was so harsh.

Human rights advocates in Uganda say the visit by the three Americans helped set in motion what could be a very dangerous cycle. Gay Ugandans already describe a world of beatings, blackmail, death threats like “Die Sodomite!” scrawled on their homes, constant harassment and even so-called correctional rape.

“Now we really have to go undercover,” said Stosh Mugisha, a gay rights activist who said she was pinned down in a guava orchard and raped by a farmhand who wanted to cure her of her attraction to girls. She said that she was impregnated and infected with H.I.V., but that her grandmother’s reaction was simply, “ ‘You are too stubborn.’ ”

Despite such attacks, many gay men and lesbians here said things had been getting better for them before the bill, at least enough to hold news conferences and publicly advocate for their rights. Now they worry that the bill could encourage lynchings. Already, mobs beat people to death for infractions as minor as stealing shoes.

“What these people have done is set the fire they can’t quench,” said the Rev. Kapya Kaoma, a Zambian who went undercover for six months to chronicle the relationship between the African anti-homosexual movement and American evangelicals.

Mr. Kaoma was at the conference and said that the three Americans “underestimated the homophobia in Uganda” and “what it means to Africans when you speak about a certain group trying to destroy their children and their families.”

“When you speak like that,” he said, “Africans will fight to the death.”

Uganda is an exceptionally lush, mostly rural country where conservative Christian groups wield enormous influence. This is, after all, the land of proposed virginity scholarships, songs about Jesus playing in the airport, “Uganda is Blessed” bumper stickers on Parliament office doors and a suggestion by the president’s wife that a virginity census could be a way to fight AIDS.

During the Bush administration, American officials praised Uganda’s family-values policies and steered millions of dollars into abstinence programs.

Uganda has also become a magnet for American evangelical groups. Some of the best known Christian personalities have recently passed through here, often bringing with them anti-homosexuality messages, including the Rev. Rick Warren, who visited in 2008 and has compared homosexuality to pedophilia. (Mr. Warren recently condemned the anti-homosexuality bill, seeking to correct what he called “lies and errors and false reports” that he played a role in it.)

Many Africans view homosexuality as an immoral Western import, and the continent is full of harsh homophobic laws. In northern Nigeria, gay men can face death by stoning. Beyond Africa, a handful of Muslim countries, like Iran and Yemen, also have the death penalty for homosexuals. But many Ugandans said they thought that was going too far. A few even spoke out in support of gay people.

“I can defend them,” said Haj Medih, a Muslim taxi driver with many homosexual customers. “But I fear the what? The police, the government. They can arrest you and put you in the safe house, and for me, I don’t have any lawyer who can help me.”

Story here.

Well, what a modern world we live in..
 

iapetus

Scary Euro Man
MagniHarvald said:
For three days, according to participants and audio recordings, thousands of Ugandans, including police officers, teachers and national politicians, listened raptly to the Americans, who were presented as experts on homosexuality. The visitors discussed how to make gay people straight, how gay men often sodomized teenage boys and how “the gay movement is an evil institution” whose goal is “to defeat the marriage-based society and replace it with a culture of sexual promiscuity.”

So why are they opposed to gay marriage, then? :D
 

SmokyDave

Member
Let's reallocate the territories of the Earth and allow like minded people to live together peacefully. I'd like Ireland please. All atheist smokers regardless of sexuality are welcome.

iapetus said:
So why are they opposed to gay marriage, then? :D
Because....

....well.....

Damn, you may have caught some religious people practising double standards. I'm sure something must have been lost in translation somewhere.
 

Jedeye Sniv

Banned
Man... it's just so depressing how these people are trying to be 'moral' and 'good' and 'pious' but in fact they are probably among the most evil people on the planet. So sad.
 

Weenerz

Banned
I usually don't care what religious people have to say, but after they went all out spewing their non-sense and getting their way only to play the innocent card after it went to extremes, like it always does, really pisses me off. Keep your agenda in your own fucking home and leave people alone. Trying to "help" has lead to a country possibly executing people who did nothing to hurt you.
 

MrHicks

Banned
i often wonder how the continent of africa would be like if european powers didn't go on a raping and pillaging/enslaving rampage for centuries

same with north america.....you know actually ruled by native americans instead of nearly being extinct

the world would be so much different today had europe just stayed within its fucking borders
maybe a better world who knows

sweet mental masturbation
 

SmokyDave

Member
MrHicks said:
i often wonder how the continent of africa would be like if european powers didn't go on a raping and pillaging/enslaving rampage for centuries

same with north america.....you know actually ruled by native americans instead of nearly being extinct

the world would be so much different today had europe just stayed within its fucking borders
maybe a better world who knows

sweet mental masturbation
Maybe it'd just be a world with different excuses for the same shit.
 

MattKeil

BIGTIME TV MOGUL #2
Different, yes. Better? Unlikely. War, infighting, genocide and religiously-motivated murder are hardly European inventions.
 

Ripclawe

Banned
MrHicks said:
i often wonder how the continent of africa would be like if european powers didn't go on a raping and pillaging/enslaving rampage for centuries


Africa would still be on a raping and pillaging/enslaving rampage. Tired of hearing about this Garden of Eden version of Africa that was destroyed by the appearance of Euros.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/africa/features/storyofafrica/9chapter1.shtml
In Africa there were a number of societies and kingdoms which kept slaves, before there was any regular commercial contact with Europeans, including the Asanti, the Kings of Bonny and Dahomey.

GROWING RICH WITH SLAVERY
ROYALTY

In the early 18th century, Kings of Dahomey (known today as Benin) became big players in the slave trade, waging a bitter war on their neighbours, resulting in the capture of 10,000, including another important slave trader, the King of Whydah. King Tegbesu made £250,000 a year selling people into slavery in 1750. King Gezo said in the 1840's he would do anything the British wanted him to do apart from giving up slave trade:

"The slave trade is the ruling principle of my people. It is the source and the glory of their wealth…the mother lulls the child to sleep with notes of triumph over an enemy reduced to slavery…"

In East Africa a slave trade was well established before the Europeans arrived on the scene. It was driven by the sultanates of the Middle East. African slaves ended up as sailors in Persia, pearl divers in the Gulf, soldiers in the Omani army and workers on the salt pans of Mesopotamia (modern Iraq). Many people were domestic slaves, working in rich households. Women were taken as sex slaves.

Arab traders began to settle among the Africans of the coast, resulting in the emergence of a people and culture known as Swahili. In the second half of the 18th century, the slave trade expanded and became more organised. There was also a huge demand for ivory, and slaves were used as porters to carry it.
 

Ollie Pooch

In a perfect world, we'd all be homersexual
Mr. Schmierer said:
“That’s horrible, absolutely horrible,” he said. “Some of the nicest people I have ever met are gay people.”
yet he advocates putting gay teenagers through the hell of their parents attempting to make them 'turn straight'. fucking idiot.
 

Kipz

massive bear, tiny salmon
Their education system must be disgusting if christians look like experts in anything.
 

Socreges

Banned
KibblesBits said:
So what if there was no Arabic influence either?
Who knows? Societies evolve in very different ways in seclusion. But if there's competition for resources and heavily-populated societies (without responsible government), you're almost guaranteed to get regular war and gross inequalities.

The parts of Africa that were likely egalitarian were sparsely populated and very poorly developed. Even then they probably warred with other tribes.

Even still, anyone wanting to suggest that European colonization is just the same old shit is so fucking far off the mark.
 

NekoFever

Member
The theme of the event, according to Stephen Langa, its Ugandan organizer, was “the gay agenda — that whole hidden and dark agenda” — and the threat homosexuals posed to Bible-based values and the traditional African family.
Good to know that African traditions are all Biblical.
 

Combichristoffersen

Combovers don't work when there is no hair
SmokyDave said:
Let's reallocate the territories of the Earth and allow like minded people to live together peacefully. I'd like Ireland please. All atheist smokers regardless of sexuality are welcome.

Can I have Scotland? I kinda like kilts and bagpipes. Pretty much everyone is welcome, except religious wackjobs and the guy who made the thread about Back to the Future being shit.
 

SmokyDave

Member
Combichristoffersen said:
Can I have Scotland? I kinda like kilts and bagpipes. Pretty much everyone is welcome, except religious wackjobs and the guy who made the thread about Back to the Future being shit.
Sure, you'll make a great neighbour. I'm gonna keep England and give Ireland to Mrklaw as a gift for this post in another thread...
mrklaw said:
I just think Humans are incapable of living together in harmony with different beliefs. They can't help wanting to persuade others that their system is 'better'.
 
Saw an interview on Rachel Maddow on this. The info some of these Ugandans were using were taken from his book where he made outrageous claims. The guy was a total tool and Rachel pwned him royally.
 

Bitmap Frogs

Mr. Community
Hatemongering under the banner of Christ.

You know, fucking hypocrites. Whenever the Bible talks about slavery, wearing garments made of just one kind of thread and touching pigskin... eh, you know it's a metaphor. But homosexuality? The fuckers are just playing their audience in order to support organizations that live leeching on contributions. Go fucking tell america touching a football is a sin to God because the Bible say so. And you know, the Genesis? down to the last dot, that's how it happened. But slavery in the Bible, just a metaphor, ok? it's an... how they call it... "historical passage" with no canonical relevance.

Fuck them.
 

Blair

Banned
it blows my mind that so many people can be so thick.


do they think? i honestly cannot comprehend how their brain works if they honestly spew this horseshit.
 

Al-ibn Kermit

Junior Member
Is it really right to blame the Ugandans (at least partially) for being so homophobic? It sounds like they are institutionalized from birth to death that homosexuality is another intangible, horrible demon responsible for all suffering. People can be extremely dogmatic about bullshit superstitions when they feel a greater need to serve their community/culture than to think independently.
 
D

Deleted member 1235

Unconfirmed Member
For three days, according to participants and audio recordings, thousands of Ugandans, including police officers, teachers and national politicians, listened raptly to the Americans, who were presented as experts on homosexuality. The visitors discussed how to make gay people straight, how gay men often sodomized teenage boys and how “the gay movement is an evil institution” whose goal is “to defeat the marriage-based society and replace it with a culture of sexual promiscuity.”

a. Blind leading the blind
b. of course it's gay men doing the sodomizing of young boys. that's not a very hetero thing to do.
c. fuck all of these people.
 

Replicant

Member
It always amaze me when people who preach tolerance and forgiveness don't actually show tolerance and forgiveness for others who are different from them.
 

Tntnnbltn

Member
catfish said:
b. of course it's gay men doing the sodomizing of young boys. that's not a very hetero thing to do.
SVU told me
There are people who engage in the sodomizing of young boys but still identify as heterosexual.
 

Bitmap Frogs

Mr. Community
Replicant said:
It always amaze me when people who preach tolerance and forgiveness don't actually show tolerance and forgiveness for others who are different from them.

Because nowadays for most denominations business is not spreading the word of God, the their business is appealing to it's fanbase most basic instincs in order to keep the money flowing.
 

Big-E

Member
That Rachel Maddow video is hilarious and sad at the same time as someone that retarded can get so much play and influence governments. Love it when Maddow asks him if he fucked a man while married to his wife.
 

Raxus

Member
I still cannot fathom how anyone can meet a gay man or woman and think they have some dark agenda just because they are gay.

The irony is because of an imaginary dark agenda a true blue dark agenda to kill innocents arise out of it. Oh evangelicals the evil of Christianity shine in you.
 

Koomaster

Member
Mr. Schmierer said:
“That’s horrible, absolutely horrible,” he said. “Some of the nicest people I have ever met are gay people.”
Well how about the next time you give one of your little talks, throw that out there that gay people are actually nice? :/

The very least these people could do is own up to the fact that they are creating cultures who want to kill gay people. You can't claim gay people are the scum of the earth who are threatening marriages/families but then turn around and claim you didn't mean for others to kill them.

Mr. Lively has acknowledged meeting with Ugandan lawmakers to discuss it. He even wrote on his blog in March that someone had likened their campaign to “a nuclear bomb against the gay agenda in Uganda.” Later, when confronted with criticism, Mr. Lively said he was very disappointed that the legislation was so harsh.
Again, another gem. "Oh yeah, I gave speeches and met with lawmakers and spoke how gay people are evil - but I'm surprised the reaction was so 'harsh'."

What did you expect a 'nuclear bomb' kind of reaction would be - like a pillow fight or a tickle? Please. All the back peddling just pisses me off more with these guys.
 
Man that guy looks creepy. For a guy that spouts a lot of nonsense about homosexuals being molesters he looks like the last person I would leave kids with.
 

jiien

Member
The Maddow video is crazy. I love seeing him crushed, but it's almost painful to watch him. Because I know he is going to be crushed.

Edit: I feel bad for his kids.
 

News Bot

Banned
“Now we really have to go undercover,” said Stosh Mugisha, a gay rights activist who said she was pinned down in a guava orchard and raped by a farmhand who wanted to cure her of her attraction to girls. She said that she was impregnated and infected with H.I.V., but that her grandmother’s reaction was simply, “ ‘You are too stubborn.’ ”

Oh for fuck's sake...
 

Kai Dracon

Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
I <3 Memes said:
Man that guy looks creepy. For a guy that spouts a lot of nonsense about homosexuals being molesters he looks like the last person I would leave kids with.

It's fairly common for extreme evangelicals who specialize in areas like homophobia to appear unsettling. A lot of these guys are dysfunctional, warped men who have used their religion as an artificial life-line to respectability and social acceptance. The stereotype that they're all gay men repressing themselves has a lot of truth to it - even if they're not naturally gay, they're often sexually immature and cannot deal with basic social cues without the iron hand of a perceived morality mantra, that they chant to themselves every day.

Salt it with the psychological phenomenon of projection, and you have a recipe for some vile, hateful men who are trying to find someone in the world to turn into a demonic figure so that they can exorcise their inner turmoil by attacking a hapless target.

In short, these people frequently are more than merely ignorant - they are legitimately batshit insane.

You really would not want to leave them alone with children, and not just for fear of sexual abuse. These people tend to create more of themselves very quickly when they have control of a child's critical developmental years. It's how their culture transmits itself across generations and why they haven't gone away yet despite how clearly ridiculous it all seems to anyone not as broken as they.

Unfortunately, not enough christians and religious people speak out against people like these who give religion a bad name. I've met tons of christians over the years who are basically nice people but they just don't like to think about those who use their belief system to rip up the world. It's incredibly uncomfortable to have to consider your beliefs have a dark side when you've been taught all your life that these beliefs are nothing but pure, shining salvation from all the world's evils. It's often the same christians who complain when people take a dim view of religion and say it causes atrocities. Yet most of them won't stand up and tell evangelicals that they are warped and destructive.
 
~Devil Trigger~ said:
unbelievable

I wonder if a being tacken up the behind with a broom would cure the farmhand of his tendancy to rape women...

Forget homosexuality, stupidity is the disease which needs the most urgent cure...
 

Dubble

Member
Hatred begets nothing else but hatred. Even though I'm a christian, it shames and saddens me when people use christianity or whatever religions or non-belief of religion they followin as a vehicle for spreading their own hate and intolerance either because they refuse to understand and love everybody or because they just plain suck or have an underhanded agenda. It's all one never ending cycle and its just sickening that now people could potentially die over it.
 

gofreak

GAF's Bob Woodward
Dubble said:
Hatred begets nothing else but hatred. Even though I'm a christian, it shames and saddens me when people use christianity or whatever religions or non-belief of religion they followin as a vehicle for spreading their own hate and intolerance either because they refuse to understand and love everybody or because they just plain suck or have an underhanded agenda. It's all one never ending cycle and its just sickening that now people could potentially die over it.

Not merely potential here. It happens. In Uganda.

At home too.

This is a matter of ignorance and nutjobs exploiting that. Maybe not knowing what they were helping to create...but I don't know if that makes it any more excusable. A bunch of crazies who saw an opportunity to 'educate' the impressionable natives in their way of thinking, having been marginalised at home.
 
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