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Multirotor MegaThread - They're UFO's, Not Drones!

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Mohonky

Member
Nah the coincidence was I have a timer set for 5 minutes of throttle activity. By sheer coincidence, right as the throttle timer was counting down the last few seconds, it actually coincided perfectly with when I crashed. You can just make out it counting down 5-4-3-2-1 and then bam, I eat dirt.

Quads good though, took it out later that arvo after putting on new props.

Had a fly today too;

20160126_173927_zpsi62u5vfs.jpg


20160126_173931_zpsgssxysmv.jpg
 

Hypron

Member
Those are some pretty cool shots Mohonky :)

On another note, I just spent the entire day trying to fool a pixhawk into taking a Raspberry Pi for a GPS and finally managed to do it haha.


The idea now is to use position data from the motion capture system we have at uni and translate that into GPS latitude/longitude. Once I get that working I'll have an indoor GPS basically. And the best thing is I won't have to modify a single line of the APM Copter code (since it just thinks it's connected to a normal GPS) so I'll be able to use exactly the same flight controllers indoor and outdoor.

If it works out all right it'll save so much of my time, I can't wait to get it finished now.

It's a shame it's still impossible to find Raspberry Pi zeroes though, one of those would have been ideal for this application. The B+ I'm using at the moment is a bit big (it'll fit on the quad I'm using but it won't be optimal).
 

Mohonky

Member
So this would be like a GPS where a marking would be home and the raspery determines position by visual reference and sends it to the APM like a GPS coorindinate?
 

Hypron

Member
So this would be like a GPS where a marking would be home and the raspery determines position by visual reference and sends it to the APM like a GPS coorindinate?

The tracking itself will be done off board on our motion capture system (it's a vicon system with 8 cameras, it can also be used for gait analysis and even movie stuff, although you might need more cameras for the latter). You have to put small reflective markers on your object (which look like small silver balls). The cameras placed all around the test area use a variety of filters to detect where the markers are and use some fancy math to combine the 2D position detected by each camera to get a 3D pose (you don't even have to tell it where you put the cameras, it calculates that by itself). According to the manual it's supposed to have sub-mm accuracy. I didn't test that specifically but it doesn't seem far off in any case - it's pretty amazing.

The pose (x, y, z position and roll, pitch, yaw) of the quad will be streamed over wifi (or maybe something else if wifi doesn't work). [The software that comes with the motion capture system is actually great for that, it's super simple to use: you put some markers on your object, they appear on the screen, you select them, give a name to the object and bam, it's being automatically streamed on your network.]

The raspberry pi will receive that info and convert it to the appropriate format (latitude, longitude, height and a couple more). Finally it'll send it to the APM like a GPS coordinate.

It's not something that everyone will need but in this case it'll def help me. There are no regulations for indoor flying so I won't have to worry about any of that stuff, and it's a lot closer to the lab than pretty much any other place.

The main issue with indoor flying though, is the lack of GPS reception and magnetic interference screwing up the compass. In general you want your experimental setups to match real conditions as much as possible... Since I'm looking at using UAVs in agriculture it's fair to assume GPS would be available in a typical scenario, so it'd suck not having access to that sensor while testing. This raspberry pi "GPS" is just a way to try to fix that issue, hopefully it works.

There are a couple of on-board vision based solutions that are supported by APM copter:

Pixy camera
front3.jpg

PX4Flow optical flow sensor
px4flow-bottom.jpg

But, well, getting them to work well and reliably does take quite a bit of effort (I spent 2 days this week banging my head against a desk trying to get that optical flow sensor to work properly haha - still don't know what's wrong with it), and even then they won't be as accurate as the motion capture system.
 

Mohonky

Member
So this setup of yours is just to simulate real world conditions in the test lab?

Have seen optical flow sensors are the new thing lately being fitted to the film and photography platforms; that and object avoidance systems
 

Hypron

Member
So this setup of yours is just to simulate real world conditions in the test lab?

Yep. Although, it's also got the benefit that I can choose how accurate the GPS is (the mocap system is literally 1000 times more accurate than a standard GPS, but I could add some random noise to simulate a normal GPS if I needed to). Sometimes it's useful to have "perfect" sensors to test things and identify exactly where issues come from. It also helps when you want to do a proof of concept for a piece of theory but don't have enough time to consider everything. Making assumptions and simplifying the problem can be a lifesaver.

The main thing I'm worried about is the delay involved in getting the data from the mocap system to the quad. If it's too large the system will be essentially useless.

Have seen optical flow sensors are the new thing lately being fitted to the film and photography platforms; that and object avoidance systems

Yeah optical flow is definitely a great tool when it works. It's got a few limitations though (it doesn't work well on uniform or reflective surfaces for example). I'm really excited to see the advances in obstacle avoidance too, there's so much potential there.
 

Mohonky

Member
Added a new member to the family. All Scarab frames now, Scrab Reconn V3, Avatar, Knife 270 and now Knife 200, thought the 270 was small, the 200 is tiny. Screw trying to make those 150 size quads, 200 is small enough thanks. Just gotta do the software side of the Knife 200 now. If I wasn't on a stupid mobile broadband connection I'd get some video of my flights and upload but I don't have the bandwidth so I've mostly just flown without a camera, which is probably good because I'm trying to push myself and bit and have had a few stacks now.

Knife 200

20160209_231658_HDR_zpslccflyva.jpg


20160209_231633_HDR_zpsogdll0sg.jpg


Knife 200 & Knife 270

20160209_231739_HDR_zpsh8nhrdqg.jpg
 

Mook1e

Member
The Nighthawk pro is awesome.
I only have one lipo for now, so I've only flown it about 4 times, with 2 crashes so far
It's crazy powerful, and both of my crashes were due to pilot error and trying acro mode too soon.
I'm waiting on a 5" DIY FPV HMD from Bangkok
 

Mohonky

Member
The Nighthawk pro is awesome.
I only have one lipo for now, so I've only flown it about 4 times, with 2 crashes so far
It's crazy powerful, and both of my crashes were due to pilot error and trying acro mode too soon.
I'm waiting on a 5" DIY FPV HMD from Bangkok

Get your tail in however down to a point where it's purely instinctive, you shouldn't have to think about it. It should be your go to position to save yourself. Works every time.

Let us know how you go with that FPV headset, heard good things from Quanum DIY stuff etc. Had a look through a mates and it's very good.

12791083_10153413465163341_8907852051744271879_n_zpstily2ijm.jpg


Took to my frame with some nail polish. Have my 200 pulled down being converted to a 240 soon, doing the same thing but using my airbrush, it's coming out far more consistent with the airbrush. Looks far more consistent.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHYLDnXDIv8&feature=youtu.be
 

captive

Joe Six-Pack: posting for the common man
i hate allen screws. Am i doing something wrong? From my RC cars 15 years ago to now, i can only seem to get one use out of an allen screen, if i can even get it unscrewed without pliers after its been screwed in.
 

Hypron

Member
i hate allen screws. Am i doing something wrong? From my RC cars 15 years ago to now, i can only seem to get one use out of an allen screen, if i can even get it unscrewed without pliers after its been screwed in.

You must be tightening them too much, they should last longer than that.
 
Definitely sound like you're tightening them too much. You do want them snug, but not so snug that you end up stripping them when you try to remove them. If it's metal to metal contact and there's no plastic parts around, you can also use blue loctite thread locker (not super glue, thread locker) to help prevent vibrations from loosening the screws.
 

captive

Joe Six-Pack: posting for the common man
You must be tightening them too much, they should last longer than that.

Definitely sound like you're tightening them too much. You do want them snug, but not so snug that you end up stripping them when you try to remove them. If it's metal to metal contact and there's no plastic parts around, you can also use blue loctite thread locker (not super glue, thread locker) to help prevent vibrations from loosening the screws.
probably over tightening, that is when i notice the wrench slips.

I do use blue loctite.

thanks.
 

captive

Joe Six-Pack: posting for the common man
ive got a brand new Turnigy Multistar 40amp ESC it arms the motor just fine gives the beeps and everything but doing a motor test through the DJI software its the only one that fails. If i switch out the ESC with a different motor it doesnt work, and if i use a working ESC on the original motor it works fine. Wondering if there is a way to reset it before i buy a new one? I dont think there is but just wanted to see if anyone knew something i didnt.
 

Mohonky

Member
probably over tightening, that is when i notice the wrench slips.

I do use blue loctite.

thanks.

Combination of a few things.

Maybe too much loctite, you don't need much at all.

Before attempting to remove a screw with loctite, hit it with a small jet flame or something to heat it up a bit first so break down the loctite.

RC's only use small screws, you really don't need to torque them too hard. I used to do it all the time, now I've kind of learnt not too. The other thing you can do, I use a 4v lithium battery powered drill with a clutch. Makes life really easy. I'm OCD about whether a screw is over or under torqued, with the drill I just set the clutch to a setting I know is appropriate. That way I get consistent torque on all my screws and I know I'm not going to over do them. Just drill them till the clutch won't let it drill anymore and leave it at that.

Also use high quality hex drivers. There are some tools you can go cheap on and get away with, good quality hexes are not one of those things. Cheaper hex heads tend to be a poor fit, round out the tip (and thus the screws) more easily and don't last long before they start stripping all your screws. I've got Hudy & EDS power tips and Hudy handled hexes. They are strong, have a snug fit and sharp edges where they have been cut to shape. I tried cheap hexes when I started out and was always stripping them, since I got some decent drivers it's not really been an issue.

Lastly check what the hex screws you're using are. Stainless seems to be popular for multirotors but for whatever reason I have always found they don't have the same tolerance as other screws like high tensile. They just don't have a nice snug fit to them for some reason, they always have a bit of play when using the correct sized head with them so I've just learn't to be more weary with them. I have no idea why, but everytime I use stainless screws it's like the tolerance of the hex itself is no where near as close as high tensile or standard carbon. Just seems to be a thing.

ive got a brand new Turnigy Multistar 40amp ESC it arms the motor just fine gives the beeps and everything but doing a motor test through the DJI software its the only one that fails. If i switch out the ESC with a different motor it doesnt work, and if i use a working ESC on the original motor it works fine. Wondering if there is a way to reset it before i buy a new one? I dont think there is but just wanted to see if anyone knew something i didnt.

No idea on this one. How do you mean it 'fails?' Have you programmed the ESC with a program card or via PC? Taught it the throttle range?
 

captive

Joe Six-Pack: posting for the common man
Combination of a few things.

Maybe too much loctite, you don't need much at all.

Before attempting to remove a screw with loctite, hit it with a small jet flame or something to heat it up a bit first so break down the loctite.

RC's only use small screws, you really don't need to torque them too hard. I used to do it all the time, now I've kind of learnt not too. The other thing you can do, I use a 4v lithium battery powered drill with a clutch. Makes life really easy. I'm OCD about whether a screw is over or under torqued, with the drill I just set the clutch to a setting I know is appropriate. That way I get consistent torque on all my screws and I know I'm not going to over do them. Just drill them till the clutch won't let it drill anymore and leave it at that.

Also use high quality hex drivers. There are some tools you can go cheap on and get away with, good quality hexes are not one of those things. Cheaper hex heads tend to be a poor fit, round out the tip (and thus the screws) more easily and don't last long before they start stripping all your screws. I've got Hudy & EDS power tips and Hudy handled hexes. They are strong, have a snug fit and sharp edges where they have been cut to shape. I tried cheap hexes when I started out and was always stripping them, since I got some decent drivers it's not really been an issue.

Lastly check what the hex screws you're using are. Stainless seems to be popular for multirotors but for whatever reason I have always found they don't have the same tolerance as other screws like high tensile. They just don't have a nice snug fit to them for some reason, they always have a bit of play when using the correct sized head with them so I've just learn't to be more weary with them. I have no idea why, but everytime I use stainless screws it's like the tolerance of the hex itself is no where near as close as high tensile or standard carbon. Just seems to be a thing.
thanks.


No idea on this one. How do you mean it 'fails?' Have you programmed the ESC with a program card or via PC? Taught it the throttle range?
So on the DJI system you can hook the flight controller up via USB and it has a motor test, if you click on motor 1 it makes the actual motor #1 click from movement, meaning its good to go. On the specific ESC it does nothing. But when i plug in the battery you can clearly hear that it gets armed, it moves the propeller too.

no no programming required.
 

Mohonky

Member
You have the same ESC's on all of your motors?

I really dont know enough about the DJI stuff to comment.

You said you have tried another ESC on that same arm and motor to make sure its the ESC and nothing else yeh?

Edit: wait it will spin the motor when the battery is in, but just not via motor test?
 

Hypron

Member
This new filming UAV from Shotover Camera Systems (a small company making super high-end gimbals based in Queenstown, NZ) looks like a work of art.

I'd love to see one fly in real life, but the only place you'll find them will be filming sets...
 

Mohonky

Member
This new filming UAV from Shotover Camera Systems (a small company making super high-end gimbals based in Queenstown, NZ) looks like a work of art.

I'd love to see one fly in real life, but the only place you'll find them will be filming sets...


Yeh its more a super unreal gimbal than multirotor. The multirotor is just a means of transport. Its their gimbal that looks mega impressive. Thats a serious payload that gimbal is throwing around, the motors on it were huge!!
 

Melon Husk

Member
May the summer sun defrost this thread. Why is this not on the community side BTW?

Yeh its more a super unreal gimbal than multirotor. The multirotor is just a means of transport. Its their gimbal that looks mega impressive. Thats a serious payload that gimbal is throwing around, the motors on it were huge!!

What sort of gimbal should I get if I were to gimbal the motors rather than a camera?
 

Mohonky

Member
What sort of gimbal should I get if I were to gimbal the motors rather than a camera?

Sorry can you run that by me again?

You want to gimbal the motors?



I need to go in and update the OP too, lots has changed in a few short months lately.
 
I'm in the process of rebuilding my DJI F330 with landing gear and fav camera mount. Going back to basic batteries is funky. Need to test some before getting the F330 back in the air.
 

hunchback

Member
Hi everyone. I'm really impressed with the amount of knowledge in this thread. I can definitely learn alot from everyone here.

Has anyone bought or used any products from Autel Robotics? They make something very close to the DJ Phantom line of products. I'm very interested in them because of their customer service and because they have a repair shop very close to me.

This would be a big step up for me in terms of price and size. I own a few Parrot elite drones. I want a better camera and to get away from using a tablet or phone for the flight controls. Luckily I haven't had any major crashes but that has limited me in any type of diy repairs. Would someone be willing to put a list together of must have tools for doing repairs? Thanks for any info you might provide.
 
I asked my wife for a phantom 3 standard for Christmas since they went on sale for $400. I have some experience with toy quads but was looking for a small quad to fly in my house over the winter to practice. What would you guys suggest?
 

Tzeentch

Member
I asked my wife for a phantom 3 standard for Christmas since they went on sale for $400. I have some experience with toy quads but was looking for a small quad to fly in my house over the winter to practice. What would you guys suggest?
The MJX B3 Bugs 3 and Shengkai D97 are both pretty good for this, but they are not racing quads. You can also get a small racing FPV setup for super cheap these days if your house is cramped.
 
The MJX B3 Bugs 3 and Shengkai D97 are both pretty good for this, but they are not racing quads. You can also get a small racing FPV setup for super cheap these days if your house is cramped.

Don't really want a racing quad as I will be using the phantom for basic flying. Just need somthing to practoce basic flight.
 

Tzeentch

Member
Then I suggest the D97. It's super cheap, has enough features that you won't instantly crash it, and works ok indoors. The included controller is laughable garbage though, just a word of warning on that.
 

hunchback

Member
My wife got me a 6 rotor drone for Christmas from Radio Shack and I'm having a hell of a problem with the trim on it.

The trim is so bad that as soon as I hit the take off/hover button, it's moving away from me at a decent speed. I have trim adjustment buttons but I really don't have enough time to adjust before it's across the street and almost to the neighbors house.

Any ideas on how to get the trim set up? Would tethering the drone work while I adjust it?
 

19Kilo

Member
My wife got me a 6 rotor drone for Christmas from Radio Shack and I'm having a hell of a problem with the trim on it.

The trim is so bad that as soon as I hit the take off/hover button, it's moving away from me at a decent speed. I have trim adjustment buttons but I really don't have enough time to adjust before it's across the street and almost to the neighbors house.

Any ideas on how to get the trim set up? Would tethering the drone work while I adjust it?

Are you initializing on a level surface? Make sure it's level when plugging in the battery and let it sit for a second.

Can you do short hops and then trim while on the ground? Bring it off the ground until you see which direction it's drifting, then set it down and give it a couple clicks of trim in the opposite direction. Repeat as needed.
 

hunchback

Member
Are you initializing on a level surface? Make sure it's level when plugging in the battery and let it sit for a second.

Can you do short hops and then trim while on the ground? Bring it off the ground until you see which direction it's drifting, then set it down and give it a couple clicks of trim in the opposite direction. Repeat as needed.

Thank you for the reply. Yes I do have it on a level surface when pairing and taking off. It's tough keeping it level when plugging in the battery but I do let it sit level for a few minute's while I get ready.

Your idea for the trim is great. I feel like a idiot for not thinking of that. I'll give that a try first thing tomorrow.

I'm really glad I started off with a less expensive drone. I would've ruined a more expensive one. Thanks again
 
Aw hell yeah multirotor thread. Just built my first quad (tiny whoop) and have been learning around the house. Going to build a 5 incher this summer maybe.
 
My wife got me a 6 rotor drone for Christmas from Radio Shack and I'm having a hell of a problem with the trim on it.

The trim is so bad that as soon as I hit the take off/hover button, it's moving away from me at a decent speed. I have trim adjustment buttons but I really don't have enough time to adjust before it's across the street and almost to the neighbors house.

Any ideas on how to get the trim set up? Would tethering the drone work while I adjust it?

Do not initialize on a metal surface either. This can interfere with some of the control systems. I learned this two years ago when I tried taking off from a metal patio table with my phantom FC40.

Aw hell yeah multirotor thread. Just built my first quad (tiny whoop) and have been learning around the house. Going to build a 5 incher this summer maybe.

Hell yeah, tiny whoop ftw. Such a fun indoor quad. Ugh, I have neglected my builds for months. I have the bee brain full acro FC I need to install on my tiny whoop as well as rebuild my ZMR 180 and get some new parts to build out this QAV-X frame I got on sale during black friday. I want to rebuild the ZMR 180 asap so I have something to fly as the weather improves. My ZMR 250 is still functional but is a 3S build and just feels so tame after going to 4S. Maybe I will make it a recon drone to plot lines for going full acro with the other frames. I will probably hold out till the spring to buy the parts for the QAV-X as the drone parts market moves insanely fast. Every few weeks there is something better, more efficient, etc. Damn I miss flying, need to get back to work, and get my frames airborne again. No excuses.
 
Aw hell yeah multirotor thread. Just built my first quad (tiny whoop) and have been learning around the house. Going to build a 5 incher this summer maybe.

I built one using the cheap Eachine e010 frame, cheap mini cam, and f3 evo fc board, cost around $30.
I really love that small beast, took it with me when I'm traveling.
I saw the brushless ARF mini on Chinese online store which looked like AXC Halo, thinking about buying that mini later this month.
 
I've been considering putting together a FPV quad that can do flips (and possibly fly upside down), but don't know all the parts I'll need. Anybody willing to put together a parts list? Budget sub $200 including transmitter and receiver (if possible).
 

Hypron

Member
I finally learnt how to fly a UAV last year (which took a while, the training quadcopter I used was pretty badly tuned and throttle control was pretty laggy) and got endorsed to do indoor testing in November. After that I did quite a bit of flight testing inside our wind tunnel until the summer break, with and without using motion capture for holding position.

It took a while to get things to work because our craft has some pretty serious vibration issues. We had to add ~150g to the flight controller to reduce vibrations to a level where position hold mode wouldn't go unstable (it looks like the dirtiest hack ever, we essentially just hot glued bolts and nuts on the flight controller haha). On top of that there must be some sort of imbalance going on because two of the rotors spin quite a lot faster (and thus get hotter) than the other two.

It's weird though because visually everything seems fine - no bent shaft, no loose parts, etc. It looks just like our other crafts (mostly the same parts and everything). Now that I'm back from holidays I'll have to test everything thoroughly. Put the props on a prop balance, remove all the parts and add them back one by one, etc. It'll probably be a pain in the ass.

Although, even with all those technical issues, I was quite impressed by how well the quadcopter would hold its position when using the mocap system. Even with the wind tunnel on full throttle it'd stay within roughly 5-10 cm of its starting position. The wind was pretty steady though, this year I'll try creating turbulence to make things more interesting.
 
Picked up a Hubsan X4 over the holidays and having a blast with it. Mostly been flying indoors but finally got a chance to go to park and really put it through its paces. Probably going to pick up a cheap FPV in a month or 2 once I get this down and eventually build my own.
 

Hypron

Member
Still waiting for my Mavic Pro to ship ...

My supervisor finally received his one last Friday and we gave it a try. This thing is so stable... It's really impressive. Probably stays within ~1 cm of its starting position when holding position indoors.

It also was my first time trying out a DJI UAV and it was even easier to fly than I expected. It's essentially like playing a videogame, everything is so streamlined.
 

Mohonky

Member
I've been considering putting together a FPV quad that can do flips (and possibly fly upside down), but don't know all the parts I'll need. Anybody willing to put together a parts list? Budget sub $200 including transmitter and receiver (if possible).

$200 USD?

FPV for under $200 is a stretch. Quad? Yes. With radio? Pushing it. With batteries, charger, goggles? Not really sure that's doable.

http://www.banggood.com/Eachine-Wiz...a-w-FlySky-I6-RTF-p-1077100.html?rmmds=search

Seen people saying really good thing about the Eachine Wizard.

Was testing a new frame today, don't usually fly with the action cam but this frame was designed for it and I want to start getting some videos. Not as smooth as the top pilots sure but I can at least keep myself in the air pretty happily. This video was just some toying around between branches stuff.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BBvfbgqb854
 
Figured GAF had a drone thread, but never bothered to look. My wife got me the Wizard (mentioned above) for Christmas, and I have so many questions.

Unfortunately I'm at work and don't have the gear in front of me. I have yet to have a successful flight. Out of the box, the FC wasn't rotated in the software, so it kept flipping. I figured that out, but then had some real bad drifting to the left and never could get a stable hover. After a bunch of crashes I noticed my props were chopping away at some of the battery wires and almost sheared off one of my antenna wires. Finally got everything sorted and added some dead zones to my stick centers, but she was flipping again. After some head bashing, I noticed my Horizon/Angle modes got all messed up somehow. Don't know if that was the problem since I haven't had the chance to fly again since then.

Hopefully I get good at this at some point.
 

Mohonky

Member
Figured GAF had a drone thread, but never bothered to look. My wife got me the Wizard (mentioned above) for Christmas, and I have so many questions.

Unfortunately I'm at work and don't have the gear in front of me. I have yet to have a successful flight. Out of the box, the FC wasn't rotated in the software, so it kept flipping. I figured that out, but then had some real bad drifting to the left and never could get a stable hover. After a bunch of crashes I noticed my props were chopping away at some of the battery wires and almost sheared off one of my antenna wires. Finally got everything sorted and added some dead zones to my stick centers, but she was flipping again. After some head bashing, I noticed my Horizon/Angle modes got all messed up somehow. Don't know if that was the problem since I haven't had the chance to fly again since then.

Hopefully I get good at this at some point.

Feel free to throw a question my way if you need any help. Antennas you tend to go through as you often crash and have props lop off the ends.

Last video from today;

https://youtu.be/CRphSrRoaZk
 

Hylian7

Member
I pulled the trigger on a Hubsan X4 yesterday. It the free one day shipping with Prime, so I got it today. My fiancee and I took it to a park nearby.

First few attempts weren't particularly great, I had to get the hang of how the controls felt. I am still getting the hang of it. My first mistake was trying to take off from the grass though, when really I should have just taken off from the concrete and moved forward into the grass. I ended up switching to doing that and generally had much better results. I crashed many times, but nothing catastrophic. I do still have trouble keeping it steady, but got much better at it. I know I had a couple of times where I had it going about 3 feet above the height of my head and landed somewhat smooth upright. The battery went out and we went home after that.

All in all, it was a lot of fun and I look forward to flying again.

Also... Why does the government require registration of drones, but not guns?!
 
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