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Fraternity chanting the n-word

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Vast majority of people (to include way too many in this thread) equate freedom of speech to freedom from consequences. These kids have freedom of speech and it hasn't been impeded at all but that doesn't mean they're free of consequences. They were free to spout racist nonsense and their consequence was that chapter was shut down. Way too many people in here think nothing should happen to these kids because freedom of speech....said people are delusional and quite possibly living in privilege land (I don't know what that's like).
He said it was widely misunderstood because the misunderstanding is that it protects you from all recourse instead of just legal recourse.
Absolutely, wholeheartedly agreed.

Slightly. They are saying that the First Amendment doesn't prevent them from being expelled. Which I am pretty sure is wrong. I think it does prevent them from being expelled for this.
Agreed here too (unless of course someone has a more current legal precedence.) They are legally free to be racist fucks and the state is barred from abridging their speech based on the content of their speech, but they do have to face the social consequences of being racist fucks.
 
Has anyone said nothing should happen? I haven't seen that at all.

While there is no freedom from consequence from private entities and citizens, there is from public bodies. Which includes OU. Unless they can successfully argue this video was immediately threatening or harassing to someone, they're not going to be expelled.

I'm not sure if it's the same at all universities but mine had a clause in the code of conduct saying if it was determined a student's actions cast the university in a bad light they would be subject to disciplinary action up to expulsion.
 
I'm not sure if it's the same at all universities but mine had a clause in the code of conduct saying if it was determined a student's actions cast the university in a bad light they would be subject to disciplinary action up to expulsion.
I don't doubt stuff like that appears in code of conducts. The big difference would be if the school is private or public. Just like terms of service agreements between customers and companies. Doesn't mean it would actually hold up if challenged. Even private companies have gotten slapped for their ToS agreements.

Earlier I posted a case where Temple University's code of conduct was inviolation of the first amendment and therefore deemed unconstitutional.
 
Expel the whole lot.

Who is the whole lot though? The few people you can identify on the tape, or the entire SAE fraternity (including members who did not necessarily join/were not present for the chanting)? Legal issues with expulsion notwithstanding, I don't think there's any possible circumstance where every member of the fraternity is expelled.

Has anyone said nothing should happen? I haven't seen that at all.

While there is no freedom from consequence from private entities and citizens, there is from public bodies. Which includes OU. Unless they can successfully argue this video was immediately threatening or harassing to someone, they're not going to be expelled.

There is case law that supports this and the Supreme Court has stated this pretty much exactly on numerous occasions.

I'm not familiar with how the Greek system is viewed in the eyes of the law, but I think there can be a case made for expelling the fraternity leadership. The video would be strong evidence for racial discrimination in terms of "recruiting" and operation of the fraternity. I doubt if any of the other students can or would be expelled. Assuming that suspension/probation is held to a lesser standard, every member of the fraternity should face at least that.

What I really want to see investigated (and I know I am pissing into the wind here but) is where the chant comes from.

I have no doubt this chant is a whole frat thing and didn't just spontaneously appear in this chapter and the one in Texas.

I would also be interested in this. The reddit comment from a month ago is damning.
 
They haven't been arrested or charged with any crime?

I'm not sure what crime they committed. There aren't hate speech laws in the US.

fraternities have private cooks? I also read that they were gonna get Waka flacka flame to perform for them (Who cancelled). These kids are rolling in dough if they can afford private chefs and concerts, yet people still think them getting expelled is going to ruin their lives.

Not necessarily wealthy. When I was in college, I ran the numbers and it was cheaper to live in my fraternity than to live in the dorms or off-campus apartments including food and utilities. Basic economies of scale.

What I really want to see investigated (and I know I am pissing into the wind here but) is where the chant comes from.

It's probably specific to that chapter. I have a friend who was an SAE at GMI (now Kettering University) and they didn't have any chants like that when he was a member.
 
I'm not familiar with how the Greek system is viewed in the eyes of the law, but I think there can be a case made for expelling the fraternity leadership. The video would be strong evidence for racial discrimination in terms of "recruiting" and operation of the fraternity. I doubt if any of the other students can or would be expelled. Assuming that suspension/probation is held to a lesser standard, every member of the fraternity should face at least that.
The thing is that a private entity does not have to follow the constitution. So if they wanted to recruit based on race, that's up to them. Now, their national chapter can punish them because it goes against their stated values.

Also, the school would probably have to prove a specific instance where a member was denied membership based on race. This video wouldn't do that.

Other lesser forms of punishment are the same because it would still be a government agency taking action against its citizens in an official capacity. Which is explicitly illegal and unconstitutional.

It how in the 1960s the federal government was able to prosecute local police officers for civil rights violations under the "color of law" aka in an official capacity. It's also why currently the federal government has been unable to prosecute someone like Darren Wilson. They technically haven't been able to find proof of civil rights violations on part of Wilson.
 
This Frat has a history

http://www.nytimes.com/1982/02/10/us/fraternity-barred-for-sponsoring-racist-party.html
CINCINNATI, Feb. 9— The University of Cincinnati has suspended a fraternity that celebrated the Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.'s birthday with a racially demeaning party, but blacks on campus and in the city say that is not enough.

They want the school to expel the Sigma Alpha Epsilon fraternity, and they want the fraternity's national office to revoke the chapter's charter.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/27/sigma-alpha-epsilon-racism_n_2776707.html
Another day, another fraternity controversy. This afternoon BroBible learned that Washington University in St. Louis' Sigma Alpha Epsilon chapter was suspended for an incident involving pledges who allegedly sang racial slurs to African-American students.

According to Washington University's Student Life newspaper, WU suspended all SAE activities following a racially offensive activity involving a number of pledges on Tuesday night. The paper and an account e-mailed to BroBible allege that SAE pledges hurled racial slurs and "inflammatory language" toward a group of African-American students who were eating in a campus dining hall. The incident was allegedly part of an SAE rush event.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/11/18/university-of-arizona-jewish-fraternity_n_6177514.html
The University of Arizona put the Sigma Alpha Epsilon fraternity on an interim suspension as it investigates a report that members attacked a Jewish frat.

According to Tucson News Now, police determined an SAE member he had taken "dozens" of his brothers on Nov. 14 to an apartment where several Alpha Epsilon Pi members live, where they banged on the door and shouted racial slurs. Four members of Alpha Epsilon Pi, or AEPi, a Jewish fraternity, were assaulted.

http://www.foxcarolina.com/story/27...rty-clemson-is-better-than-this#ixzz3TvQPQmuP

CLEMSON, SC (FOX Carolina) -
Clemson University's president is calling for students to come together and support one another after photos of a student-organized party ignited racial tensions on social media.

Photos posted on Instagram and other social media platforms Saturday night depicted partygoers displaying hand signals and dressed as gang members.

A caption on one photo read “Merry Cripmas to all.”

Students said the partygoers pictured were satirizing the Crips gang based in California.

“Not only [do the images] mock street gangs, but minority students are concerned that this is a direct response to peaceful rallies on campus,” one student wrote in an e-mail to FOX Carolina.

Read more:

#NotallSAEs
 
What does this even mean?

What do you mean what does it mean? It means if every racist OU student was to be expelled, the number of enrolled students would drop by a noticeable amount.

A lot of the Mid-Western and Southern schools are full of racist fucks, including my Alma Mater. You'd never know it meeting them for the first time but then you're at a party, and people know each other, and the N-word comes out casually without hesitation.

Most of the people don't see it in any way controversial because of the way they're raised. They also believe that using the n-word in a joke does not necessarily make them racist. It's seen more as an innocuous ribbing that they might give one of their white friends. It's the "I'm inclusive when it comes to racist jokes" kind of approach that allows them to pretend they're not racist.
 
Yes. You don't have to implicitly state such, but when you say shit like "Oh they're just kids!" or "It's not real racism" you're basically advocating that nothing should befall these fucks.
I see. I agree there is no place for that.

And by the links just posted, SAE has some thinking to do at the national level. That's... Unprecedented.
 
I see. I agree there is no place for that.

And by the links just posted, SAE has some thinking to do at the national level. That's... Unprecedented.

Why would they do anything. Their frat was founded by Southerns who probably held slaves, has a large presence in the US south and is notoriously white.

The fraternity had fewer than 400 members when the Civil War began. Of those, 369 went to war for the Confederate States and seven for the Union Army. Seventy-four members of the fraternity lost their lives in the war.

Is a question why these types of organizations continually have these problems?

They breed racism. They can't do anything, its in their DNA. And they don't want to. They want to manage PR.
 
I heard they were blurring the "kids" faces on TV when they're showing the racist chanting?

What kind of fuckshit is that? They're not "kids".

LOL @ "#NotAllSAEs". As if anyone seriously thought this behavior was limited to just one chapter.
 
The thing is that a private entity does not have to follow the constitution. So if they wanted to recruit based on race, that's up to them. Now, their national chapter can punish them because it goes against their stated values.

Also, the school would probably have to prove a specific instance where a member was denied membership based on race. This video wouldn't do that.

Other lesser forms of punishment are the same because it would still be a government agency taking action against its citizens in an official capacity. Which is explicitly illegal and unconstitutional.

It how in the 1960s the federal government was able to prosecute local police officers for civil rights violations under the "color of law" aka in an official capacity. It's also why currently the federal government has been unable to prosecute someone like Darren Wilson. They technically haven't been able to find proof of civil rights violations on part of Wilson.

No you're wrong, even a private institution cannot discriminate on the basis of race, gender, sexuality or religion.
 
How I see many of the apologetic posts in this thread.

Dear Black People

I think we should totes take the time to understand and be more tolerant of these kids and their racist song. Do you truly believe these kids are racist? Are these kids truly deserving of being demonized and removed from school? That's not fair to them, many of them were not fully aware of their actions or that their song was hurtful. For many more of them they were just singing because others were singing. Labeling them as "racist" is pretty harmful and can negatively affect their lives going forward, try imagining being one of these kids and knowing that people see you as less than an individual, less than a person, you wouldn't understand how that feels. Should these kids be punished for a simple mistake? Branded with a scarlet letter? Made fun of? That is insensitive towards their plight, there is a war going on in America were humility and forgiveness have been removed in favor of shame and scorn. In today's society it is harder to be white than any other group of people and whites are more likely to be targets of hate crimes. What "hate" you ask? Freedom of speech. What these kids said was mean spirited but ultimately harmless, they didn't actually hang anyone from a tree so the current actions being taken against them is disgusting. Do not be quick to judge these kids or to hate them. Teach them why what they're saying is wrong. It's the only way we as group of people can overcome these issues. Empathy not anger is the road to equality. MLK wouldn't want outrage or shock, he would advocate understanding and patience. There is only one race, the human race. We should stop seeing each other as different colors, we should instead see each other as brothers and sisters.

Sincerely
Moderates of America Inc.

Sorry but those adult fucks get zero sympathy from me. Not a single fuck out of my millions of fucks will EVER be given.
I have died, resurrected and died again.
 
Wow. I'll be the first to admit that I'm an asshole, and generally do and say shit just to get a rise out of other people. But that shit they were chanting...even I can't be that much of a shithead.
 
How I see many of the apologetic posts in this thread.

Dear Black People

I think we should totes take the time to understand and be more tolerant of these kids and their racist song. Do you truly believe these kids are racist? Are these kids truly deserving of being demonized and removed from school? That's not fair to them, many of them were not fully aware of their actions or that their song was hurtful. For many more of them they were just singing because others were singing. Labeling them as "racist" is pretty harmful and can negatively affect their lives going forward, try imagining being one of these kids and knowing that people see you as less than an individual, less than a person, you wouldn't understand how that feels. Should these kids be punished for a simple mistake? Branded with a scarlet letter? Made fun of? That is insensitive towards their plight, there is a war going on in America were humility and forgiveness have been removed in favor of shame and scorn. In today's society it is harder to be white than any other group of people and whites are more likely to be targets of hate crimes. What "hate" you ask? Freedom of speech. What these kids said was mean spirited but ultimately harmless, they didn't actually hang anyone from a tree so the current actions being taken against them is disgusting. Do not be quick to judge these kids or to hate them. Teach them why what they're saying is wrong. It's the only way we as group of people can overcome these issues. Empathy not anger is the road to equality. MLK wouldn't want outrage or shock, he would advocate understanding and patience. There is only one race, the human race. We should stop seeing each other as different colors, we should instead see each other as brothers and sisters.

Sincerely
Moderates of America Inc.

Sorry but those adult fucks get zero sympathy from me. Not a single fuck out of my millions of fucks will EVER be given.
Yes! The bolded especially always gets me.
 
Yeah, for anybody who wasn't in the Greek system, this is SAE in a nutshell. They're pieces of shit nation-wide. This story is not anywhere close to a surprise.
 
It's a lack of contact with folks of other colors that leads to this stuff. Only 7.4% black population in Oklahoma. That means the white kids have about a 1 in 10 chance of personally meeting or knowing a black person while growing up.
I'd like to see universities/schools require all students to spend a little time on diversity, i.e., go into a diverse environment, and report on their experiences.
White frats live in a black frat for a week and vice versa.
 
Chiming in on this, I have read through all pages. This shit is despicable and unfortunately not surprising.

That being said, as much as I would like to see these kids kicked out of school I simply can't agree with that.

I'm no constitutional scholar but I'm pretty sure you can stand on a public college campus with a sign that says "Hitler was right" with no repercussions...?

This is somewhat similar to that, regardless of how disgusting what they said was I don't believe a public school has the grounds for any disciplinary action besides what they have already done which is disband the fraternity.

Like others have said if this was a private university everything changes but being that is isn't I don't think we will see anything else happen.
 
So what exactly is the punishment for being racist in America? We always forget about these people, many of them get book deals, movie deals, they can blend into the larger society, many of them get donations for their cases and other forms of support...I mean, I get it. You can't do anything to kick them out or punish them for what they say. But doesn't that simply mean that the majority of Americans are fine with this? People keep bringing up "public places", yeah well, why not vote then to make racism something punishable by jail time? Would that ruin too many white peoples lives, having criminal records?
 
Jesus Christ. I blame the university for letting this slide over and over again. Now they're at the center of this and they deserve every bit of it. Incompetence of the highest order.

Embarrassing.

Those other incidents aren't the fault of the university, you're taking issue with the fraternity.

So what exactly is the punishment for being racist in America? We always forget about these people, many of them get book deals, movie deals, they can blend into the larger society, many of them get donations for their cases and other forms of support...I mean, I get it. You can't do anything to kick them out or punish them for what they say. But doesn't that simply mean that the majority of Americans are fine with this? People keep bringing up "public places", yeah well, why not vote then to make racism something punishable by jail time? Would that ruin too many white peoples lives, having criminal records?

That would ruin too many people's lives period. If being racist were illegal there's a bunch of people in this thread making blanket statements about white folks who could be incarcerated. Not that I think it's in any way equivalent, but it would have to be in the eyes of the law/constitution.

And no, the majority of Americans aren't fine with this. The punishment for being personally racist in America (not in terms of running a business or the like, which is illegal) is being ostracized by the general public.
 
So what exactly is the punishment for being racist in America? We always forget about these people, many of them get book deals, movie deals, they can blend into the larger society, many of them get donations for their cases and other forms of support...I mean, I get it. You can't do anything to kick them out or punish them for what they say. But doesn't that simply mean that the majority of Americans are fine with this? People keep bringing up "public places", yeah well, why not vote then to make racism something punishable by jail time? Would that ruin too many white peoples lives, having criminal records?

I would never vote to make free speech illegal? People are free to say or do whatever they want as long as it does not threaten someones well being.
 
So what exactly is the punishment for being racist in America? We always forget about these people, many of them get book deals, movie deals, they can blend into the larger society, many of them get donations for their cases and other forms of support...I mean, I get it. You can't do anything to kick them out or punish them for what they say. But doesn't that simply mean that the majority of Americans are fine with this? People keep bringing up "public places", yeah well, why not vote then to make racism something punishable by jail time? Would that ruin too many white peoples lives, having criminal records?

I'm concerned this is a serious post... There is no punishment and there should never be one. You are and should be able to hold any fucking view you want without fear of prosecution.
 
fraternities have private cooks? I also read that they were gonna get Waka flacka flame to perform for them (Who cancelled). These kids are rolling in dough if they can afford private chefs and concerts, yet people still think them getting expelled is going to ruin their lives.

I wouldn't say having a private cook makes them rich when fees are split between a lot of people. Plus, most of the time you're not getting some Michelin star chef. You're getting a local guy who just likes cooking. Oddly enough, it was cheaper to live in a fraternity at my school than in a dorm. Also, the concert was being hosted by the university I believe, not by the SAE fraternity.

Not excusing their actions, just adding some clarity on what you said. They still more than deserve their punishments.
 
So what exactly is the punishment for being racist in America? We always forget about these people, many of them get book deals, movie deals, they can blend into the larger society, many of them get donations for their cases and other forms of support...I mean, I get it. You can't do anything to kick them out or punish them for what they say. But doesn't that simply mean that the majority of Americans are fine with this? People keep bringing up "public places", yeah well, why not vote then to make racism something punishable by jail time? Would that ruin too many white peoples lives, having criminal records?

That pesky constitution prevents this.
 
I wish I was white. Mofos get barrier, shield, and other kinds of protection cast on them by random strangers ontop of the +25 to all stats, higher epic loot drops and lower random encounter rate.

The last few times I've had cops talk to me I've been really dismissive or messed with them. The last time started like this:
"Do you know why I pulled you over?"
"Because you were lonely?"
Nothing more than verbal warnings.

At work, my Afghan boss warned me about the banquet manager at a small local venue. He told me that she was immediately hostile to him and his wife.
I went there by myself and she seemed completely normal ... until my Singapore-Muslim help arrived. Then a switch flipped and she went full bitch on him.

Being white in the US really is awesome.
 
I'm concerned this is a serious post... There is no punishment and there should never be one. You are and should be able to hold any fucking view you want without fear of prosecution.

That's not what I'm saying. I mean specifically in public places, nobody needs to hear or see those kind of things in their daily lives. Some argue that such things don't harm people because no physical harm is done. Then why have laws against stalking or cyber bullying, etc? Nobody is physically harming anyone by doing those things either, right? I know about the American "freedom of speech" business, what I'm asking is, why can you people not vote and make changes to it for the benefit of all society?
And no, the majority of Americans aren't fine with this. The punishment for being personally racist in America (not in terms of running a business or the like, which is illegal) is being ostracized by the general public.

But I don't see this reflection outside of GAF. Recent example: In the Michael Brown shooting, his Gofundme page made less and moved much slower than Darren Wilson's. How come? Why did Zimmerman get so much funding? Why are these people always able to escape and blend in, while others cannot?
 
The last few times I've had cops talk to me I've been really dismissive or messed with them. The last time started like this:
"Do you know why I pulled you over?"
"Because you were lonely?"
Nothing more than verbal warnings. Being white in the US really is awesome.

If you were black, 'he's coming right at me!' BLAM BLAM BLAM!
 
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