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[Refreshment.01]

This is my mock up.

Two physical sliders act as 2 analogue sticks, the buttons are virtual. But since they are in a fixed position relative to the sliders you don't have to look at the to know where they are all the time. There is haptic feedback to let you know that you pressed them ( kinda like the new macbook )

That's the problem we have had with the plaster the buttons over a touch screen design for years, is moslty coolness factor with not many advantages. And not much taught given in how it could work.

In regards to your mock Star. To remotley work as you expect, Nintendo would have to come up with a a very special thumbstick. Something low profile and with a rather short throw. If it's an sliding pad (circle pad) them you seem to forget they travel a considerable distance, so your virtual buttons can't be that close. Or the distance they travel might throw player perception. Maybe it could be fixed by enlarging the surface area in each direction that registers a press?

Button combos won't work well. A B+Y or X+A are not possible. Some genres to this day still use combos and a lot of developers are quite "lazy" or not creative enough to adapt schemes for different controllers. While not necesarily, it could pose an extra difficulty for 3rd party support.

Also it would be interesting to know if the stiks could be farther from the border since it could add extra functionality by allocating 4 cardinal positions instead of 3. In fact this is critical since thousands of games take for granted those for face buttons.

Btw, this is coming from someone that believes in controller minimalism. XD

 

[AniHawk]

Okay, so here are all the Nintendo patents from the last year or so:

Outward facing light sensors: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1114538

Cloud computing addon: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1150086

Video achievement sharing: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1101453

Disk-less stationary console: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1099932

Scrolling shoulder buttons: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1113452

Interchangeable physical controls: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=811351

shoulder scrolling buttons and disk-less stationary console both seem like pretty good ideas. the interchangeable physical controls seem like a precursor to this megascreen idea.

 

[Fourth Storm]

There's simply no way you can play a game on the TV with touch buttons on the secondary screen.

They would have to simplified/adjusted. It obviously wouldn't be great for a fighting game, but different genres could experiment. In FPS games, you don't want to move your thumb from the right stick much anyway. They could utilize different types of inputs:

• Swipes and pinches
• Split controller in half and any touch on the right would be one input and any touch on the left side a different input.
• Motion controls

This is of course without anything else they might do like a scroll wheel, rear buttons/paddles, or controller shells.

 

[Fourth Storm]

EDIT 2:

I could even see this happening.

Bottom image

I just want to point out that these different shapes represent gaps in the touch panel and not the screen. The screen would still be covering those areas according to the embodiments in the patent.

 

[Refreshment.01]

They would have to simplified/adjusted. It obviously wouldn't be great for a fighting game, but different genres could experiment. In FPS games, you don't want to move your thumb from the right stick much anyway. They could utilize different types of inputs:

• Swipes and pinches
• Split controller in half and any touch on the right would be one input and any touch on the left side a different input.
• Motion controls

This is of course without anything else they might do like a scroll wheel, rear buttons/paddles, or controller shells.

Well with the depiction in the patent and considering the game is been played on a TV, you could certainly work out a basic FPS configuration.

Assuming (and this is how i will consider it from now on since it the only way this thing my have a minimal chance) that there's a decent haptic feedback solution, they could dedicate an area of the touch screen as a trackpad for brought camera control. Then they just apply the Splatoon method of gyro assistance. The right thumbstick can work as substitute for the face buttons on a normal controller. If they put those direction sensing bumpers then there's a lot more things you can adpat even with the decreased amount of inputs (weapon selection, zoom levels, Z targeting).

With the bumpers on the patent they can even implement an alernative aiming system where the rotation of camera in X axis is controlled by the a bumper and the Y axis is controlled by tilting the controller. It could work since tilt is a very trivial and easy to pull of action. At least it would be worth some play testing to see if this could work.

 

[Nanashrew]

I just want to point out that these different shapes represent gaps in the touch panel and not the screen. The screen would still be covering those areas according to the embodiments in the patent.

The gaps in the bottom one seems like a good place for buttons though, and I could still see interchangeable buttons in those places for the D-pad and ABXY layout.

 

[NinjaTehFish]

A friend of mine managed to pass on some leaked design docs:

 

[doop_]

A friend of mine managed to pass on some leaked design docs:

That's a penis.

 

[Übermatik]

Okay, so here are all the Nintendo patents from the last year or so:

Outward facing light sensors: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1114538

Cloud computing addon: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1150086

Video achievement sharing: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1101453

Disk-less stationary console: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1099932

Scrolling shoulder buttons: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1113452

Interchangeable physical controls: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=811351

Noooiiiiiceeee.

 

[Super Wario]

Nvm.

 

[The_Lump]

Anyone who thinks that touch screen buttons (with any kind of magical vibrator feedback, or without) is good/working way to play is just so wrong and have no idea of it.

Or, y'know, they have a different opinion to you.

If a touch screen button had "magical vibration feedback" (or haptics to us less spiritual folk) then I wouldn't see the issue at all.

 

[nubbe]

A friend of mine managed to pass on some leaked design docs:

No rumble, girls won't like it

 

[KingBroly]

shoulder scrolling buttons and disk-less stationary console both seem like pretty good ideas. the interchangeable physical controls seem like a precursor to this megascreen idea.

The changeable parts seems akin to the Xbone Elite Controller.

 

[Super Wario]

A friend of mine managed to pass on some leaked design docs:

1.75" screen confirmed.

 

[Vena]

So my thumbs are gonna cover the screen and there might not be physical face buttons?

no physical buttons would be an abomination

you'd think Nintendo would be smarter than that when it comes to input methods and what feels good to play with... then again nintendo was demoing a wii u gamepad with fucking circle pads instead of real analog sticks back in 2011 so who knows

I feel like there would be HUGE backlash if they actually unveiled this thing and it didn't have physical buttons. I really can't see it happening.

At what point will we start reading the thread and understanding how patent applications work? Nothing in this patent is about buttons or lack thereof.

 

[The_Lump]

A friend of mine managed to pass on some leaked design docs:

That screen seems huge.

 

[ZOONAMI]

A friend of mine managed to pass on some leaked design docs:

Excellent mock up for a VR porn controller. Nintendo is full of surprises.

 

[Snakeyes]

Whether GAF wants to admit it or not, kids are still the primary target for these devices and need to be hardened against an 8 year old.

Not when parents are totally okay with handing their old iPhone to their 5 year old.

 

[The_Lump]

Not when parents are totally okay with handing their old iPhone to their 5 year old.

Old? Kids are playing with your phone, old or new. There's no point fighting it.

 

[Nostremitus]

You know, the more I think about it, I'm ok with touchscreen buttons as long as the controller has two analog sticks and shoulder buttons/wheels. Add in two underside buttons like the Steam controller and you have enough physical buttons for the actions that require a precise physical button and the touch screen buttons can be used for anything else. Hell, it's a handheld so you're always looking at the screen, it's not like you'll miss them trying to press them.

I'm thinking of it like playing Mass Effect on Wii U. You could map abilities to the edges of the screen, it worked great.

That said, it needs a D-pad... I ordered a Steam controller recently but haven't had a chance to play with the haptic touchpad as a D-pad, so my opinion may change.

 

[Punks]

I get that this looks cool but what's the point? Unless you are playing a game that only uses the analogs and shoulder buttons, your thumbs will be covering those areas anyways so who cares if they are transparent?

I imagine there would be an option that would shrink the playable screen and put the buttons outside of it.

 

[EndlessFloydian]

You're kidding, and these are just mock-ups...right?

 

[AniHawk]

You're kidding, and these are just mock-ups...right?

i know his friend and he wouldn't lie about this. you can trust me. just look at my face.

 

[Rodin]

They would have to simplified/adjusted. It obviously wouldn't be great for a fighting game, but different genres could experiment. In FPS games, you don't want to move your thumb from the right stick much anyway. They could utilize different types of inputs:

• Swipes and pinches
• Split controller in half and any touch on the right would be one input and any touch on the left side a different input.
• Motion controls

This is of course without anything else they might do like a scroll wheel, rear buttons/paddles, or controller shells.

They would have to find workarounds to make some genres possibly playable, and completely ruin others. Only to have an (unattractive and) expensive gimmick again, and we already know that this strategy doesn't necessarily work.

I'd rather have a normal controller with gyroscopes and a 4-4.5" screen, maybe placed like the DS4 touchpad (at the center, with the "horns" at its sides featuring buttons, dpad and analog sticks and nothing above it). It would be obviously bigger than the PS4 controller, but not to the point that it would be uncomfortable to hold like the Gamepad.

No, if they want another hook to differentiate themselves from their competitors it can't be a controller this time. They can and should propose another evolution in that sense, or a better interpretation of the gamepad, but only to improve gameplay for every genre. And a controller with touch buttons isn't going to do that.

 

[stilgar]

You're kidding, and these are just mock-ups...right?

Don't you dare doubting him.he's the only reliable source on gaf.

 

[Ronzilla29]

How would everyone feel about the possibility of them putting the normal plastic yxba buttons on the back side of the controller? Maybe ba on one side with an lz and same with ba rz on right if not all four on the same side. How about putting the analog sticks or sliders on back side and using digital button presses for face buttons? Do you think we could reasonably be able to get accustomed to controlling games movements with a pointer or middle finger on the backside of a controller? Be able to get good enough with it that we could control games accurately enough to at least relatively close to what we do now with normal analog sticks we're accustomed to
now? Or do you think we couldn't condition ourselves to make precise movements with those fingers like we can with our thumbs?

Don't crucify me if there's reasons that would make it stupid that I haven't thought of. I'm just thinking outside the box and was curious to know others thoughts on it.

 

[DXB-KNIGHT]

A friend of mine managed to pass on some leaked design docs:

This is the only time that I'd like to play with the screen more than the buttons.

 

[krizalidzero]

I think we'll get a NX Pro controller anyways

 

[ZeroMaverick]

A friend of mine managed to pass on some leaked design docs:

Lol omg it took me a while to realize lol

 

[Candescence]

A free form display like this would certainly give Nintendo some "Wow" appeal to the mass market, due to how uncommon something like that is.

Holy crap, this is pretty much exactly what I was going for. Perfect.

Now, using that mockup as a jumping-off point... While I do know some people hate virtual buttons with a passion and with good reason, that doesn't mean we can't implement them in addition to traditional regular controls. Here's a quick rough idea of optimal spots for virtual button placement:

Now, in this case, I could see virtual buttons actually working fine. The virtual buttons are clustered around the physical controls, but spaced far apart enough so that you likely won't press them by accident or press the wrong button, and the player has reference points that completely prevent thumb drifting and allows the player to know where to guide their thumbs to a specific button without even looking at the screen, if need be, and the buttons are still within the peripheral area of the screen.

At the least, it minimizes the downsides of touch screen buttons, and basically makes additional controls entirely viable for functions that can be safely relegated to touch buttons. Depending on the shape of the handheld/controller, I estimate that devs could fit roughly seven to twelve virtual buttons within the peripheral space.

 

[Neoxon]

Perhaps the NX Console's controller will look like something along the lines of this.

 

[Super Wario]

Take a look at Wii and Wii U that uses cheap components and looks like Fisher-Price made them. Do you actually believe that Nintendo will use premium expensive components in NX like a free-form display screen, which is expensive to manufacture according to Sharp, and the rumored "industry leading ships", also expensive? I'm not so sure about that because Nintendo is all about profit. I can't find the exact quote but Tatsumi said something about wanting to top Wii sales with NX so the console must be profitable (cheap).

He also said something about the NX being "different" and that it will offer "a totally new experience". To me that reads gimmick. And that's the one thing I don't want.

 

[Rodin]

Take a look at Wii and Wii U that uses cheap components and looks like Fisher-Price made them. Do you actually believe that Nintendo will use premium expensive components in NX like a free-form display screen, which is expensive to manufacture according to Sharp, and the rumored "industry leading ships", also expensive? I'm not so sure about that because Nintendo is all about profit. I can't find the exact quote but Tatsumi said something about wanting to top Wii sales with NX so the console must be profitable (cheap).

He also said something about the NX being "different" and that it will offer "a totally new experience". To me that reads gimmick. And that's the one thing I don't want.

Wii looks nothing like Fisher-Price, i don't even know where this comes from. And FYI, both the Wiimote and the Wii U streaming tech were/are pretty high tech. Also, is not easy as you think to squeeze slightly more performance than a PS3 in a 33W box (there's more than a reason why the Wii U was sold AT LOSS for more than two years, while being 350$, it wasn't only the gamepad like people love to believe), and neither was making the Wiimote. Glassless 3D in 2011 on a handheld was pretty nuts too. Which means that yes, it's definitely possible that they'll use a free-form display screen, despite it being expensive. And "industry leading chips" doesn't mean they'll put Haswell+Fury Nano+HBM in there.

So yeah, high tech doesn't necessarily mean high end CPU and GPU, otherwise PS4 and Xbox One aren't high tech either.

I do agree with something you said though: i don't want a new stupid gimmick either. 3D and Gamepad were both largely useless, as only a couple of games per platform really used them (3D Land/Kid Icarus and Splatoon/Super Mario Maker). So i think Nintendo should set a price and use the best tech they can fit into it, balancing the costs of the various components (like, don't use a free-form display in your 250$ console if it's super expensive and then you're forced to use a <20$, 500gflops GPU and a shitty CPU). If they use a gimmick again it must be worth it, but if the "hook" is a "software" one (like a - largely - shared library between the home and the handheld) it's better.

PS: Kimishima said he expects Nintendo to reach and surpass the profits from Wii-DS era, but i think that was including smartphone games, QoL, amibo, ip licensing etc. In that case NX doesn't need to surpass Wii/DS sales, but of course they'll try to do that.

 

[Fourth Storm]

They would have to find workarounds to make some genres possibly playable, and completely ruin others. Only to have an (unattractive and) expensive gimmick again, and we already know that this strategy doesn't necessarily work.

I'd rather have a normal controller with gyroscopes and a 4-4.5" screen, maybe placed like the DS4 touchpad (at the center, with the "horns" at its sides featuring buttons, dpad and analog sticks and nothing above it). It would be obviously bigger than the PS4 controller, but not to the point that it would be uncomfortable to hold like the Gamepad.

No, if they want another hook to differentiate themselves from their competitors it can't be a controller this time. They can and should propose another evolution in that sense, or a better interpretation of the gamepad, but only to improve gameplay for every genre. And a controller with touch buttons isn't going to do that.

For the record, I do think they should have at least one real face button. I wouldn't want to break the symmetry of the controller, though, so I'd put one on each side, close to the sticks. I would like to see them improve the feeling of clicky sticks, though. I like the concept of immersion they're going for where you see no buttons in front of you while your hands are on the sticks.

I point again to the Wii Remote as an example of a controller that was wildly successful yet did not play every genre as well as a traditional controller. The touch screen is the most widely used video game interface in the world right now. Every additional button added gets them more into Wii U territory, where they tried to please both ends of the spectrum and failed spectacularly.

 

[Diffense]

When I hear people say that they hope Nintendo does something straighforward without "gimmicks" I have to admit that I definitely DON'T share that sentiment. I don't see the point of three virtually identical machines (even down to being dominated by AMD guts). Sony always creates a solid console product but I'm never surprised by their hardware. It'll have a dualshock and be called PS++. That's fine, but I like having a manufacturer whose moves I can't predict and who might come up with a crazy new controller, concept (or name). Nintendo is a contradictory combination of conservative and maverick.

They take calculated risks in an attempt to disrupt existing industry patterns because, quite frankly, that's their best bet at this point. IMO, trying to compete directly with MS and Sony without offerring compelling distinguishing features has a higher chance of failure. Their strategy worked with the Wii and DS (and even motivated "knockoffs" by their competitors) but they weren't able to retain the new audience for multiple reasons. Their initiatives may still fail to gain widespread acceptance, as the the Wii U did, but I think that's the better way to fail. They learn more from that kind of innovative failure than simply having a PS4 clone tank in the market.

EDIT: these are the reasons I expect a touchscreen implementation with Nintendo's next hardware
1)They've proven the usefulness and convenience of having a secondary screen on the controller (additional control interfaces, off-tv play etc.)
2)They've already done the hardware R&D to make streaming work and gained experience creating software that uses both screens
3)They already have a body of legacy software that requires a secondary touchscreen which has implications for virtual console
4)Upcoming mobile software will most likely utilize touch interfaces and they'll probably desire compatibility with their dedicated devices

Despite some calls for a clean break from Wii U, abandoning a useful, if not groundbreaking, innovation didn't sit will with me.
One of the compelling things about the Wii was the resemblance of the controller to a device even the most technologically illiterate have used: the TV remote.
Applying this "familiarity bias" to the preferences of core gamers suggests that a screen-enabled controller that looks and feels more like a controller than a tablet may have a greater appeal.
This patent seems to be trying to bridge the gap between buttons and the touchscreen by integrating them more into a unified control method.
The issue of covering content with your fingers is a complete non-issue. If the area adjacent to the sticks will be used for button-llike inputs who's going to render a boss there?
Quite probably, those areas would be sectioned off and used for the HUD just as some DS games used the lower screen exclusively for screen buttons or HP gauges etc.
I think haptic feedback will be a distinct possibility since it seems right up Nintendo's lane (they've had rumble since N64) and synergizes well with screen buttons.
I'm intrigued.

 

[Turrican3]

^^ this (bar the edit, that I somehow slightly less agree with - not a huge fan of the Gamepad for example).

 

[blu]

No chance it could be the controller and the handheld (one device?) Could that be financially viable?

Aside from the cost of the screen (i've no idea how expensive this tech is), the R&D for the streaming tech is already pretty mature from the WiiU development so probably isn't cutting into their budget too much. Could it be feasible for Nintendo to have something like this as a primary controller for a "middle-of-the-road" powered console? Let's say ~$350, for the box plus this free-form display controller. Neither will have cutting edge specs (hence the cloud thing) and although expensive, consumers are essentially getting a handheld as well as a console. What would be your thoughts on something like that?

Just to make it clear: my take is that nintendo could have a home unit which could cooperate with their handheld unit, the latter used as a controller, despite the home unit having a sufficiently functional, alas less-feature-rich controller, in the box.

Even if nintendo managed to launch a very affordable handhed/home-unit package price, I'd expect certain psychological factors to stop nintendo from making that non-optional. Because free-market choices for the customer mandate that you don't force them to buy your handheld so that they could play your console, and vice versa. Let's say nintendo pulled a $350 combo price - a logical question many customers would ask would be 'Could I have the console for $200 sans the handheld, or the handheld for $150 sans the console?' After all, those are supposed to be independently operable, regardless what they could do when paired.

 

[javac]

If the screen covers the entire face, it would have to be some crazy resolution, right?

 

[The_Lump]

Just to make it clear: my take is that nintendo could have a home unit which could cooperate with their handheld unit, the latter used as a controller, despite the home unit having a sufficiently functional, alas less-feature-rich controller, in the box.

Even if nintendo managed to launch a very affordable handhed/home-unit package price, I'd expect certain psychological factors to stop nintendo from making that non-optional. Because free-market choices for the customer mandate that you don't force them to buy your handheld so that they could play your console, and vice versa. Let's say nintendo pulled a $350 combo price - a logical question many customers would ask would be 'Could I have the console for $200 sans the handheld, or the handheld for $150 sans the console?' After all, those are supposed to be independently operable, regardless what they could do when paired.

I guess I'm picturing it more as 1x device, part of which is portable. So like a WiiU but with a portable "Gamepad+" which is partially functional alone, but gets a boost from the cloud when online. Farfetched I know, but could possibly work.

 

[Rodin]

For the record, I do think they should have at least one real face button. I wouldn't want to break the symmetry of the controller, though, so I'd put one on each side, close to the sticks. I would like to see them improve the feeling of clicky sticks, though. I like the concept of immersion they're going for where you see no buttons in front of you while your hands are on the sticks.

I point again to the Wii Remote as an example of a controller that was wildly successful yet did not play every genre as well as a traditional controller. The touch screen is the most widely used video game interface in the world right now. Every additional button added gets them more into Wii U territory, where they tried to please both ends of the spectrum and failed spectacularly.

I don't think that having more buttons was the problem with the Wii U. Marketing, branding, hardware, price and overall image/perception of the product were.

Also, i remember a pretty clear statement made by Miyamoto about non-gamer not being a reliable userbase, because they don't care about the brand (basically he almost told them to fuck off) and what they want is to expand their audience with people that would stick with Nintendo. So if their goal is to expand their fidelized userbase, i really don't think that NX is being made for grannies and dads (then of course Nintendo will always want to appeal to families, as in parents buying the console for their kids and joining them to play the games, etc etc). I believe NX is being made with gamers in mind, both casual and more hardcore. They want a console that caters to the masses already invested in playing videogames or interested into starting/expanding this hobby/passion. Simplyfing the control scheme is not going to do that.

When I hear people say that they hope Nintendo does something straighforward without "gimmicks" I have to admit that I definitely DON'T share that sentiment. I don't see the point of three virtually identical machines (even down to being dominated by AMD guts). Sony always creates a solid console product but I'm never surprised by their hardware. It'll have a dualshock and be called PS++. That's fine, but I like having a manufacturer whose moves I can't predict and who might come up with a crazy new controller, concept (or name). Nintendo is a contradictory combination of conservative and maverick.

They take calculated risks in an attempt to disrupt existing industry patterns because, quite frankly, that's their best bet at this point. IMO, trying to compete directly with MS and Sony without offerring compelling distinguishing features has a higher chance of failure. Their strategy worked with the Wii and DS (and even motivated "knockoffs" by their competitors) but they weren't able to retain the new audience for multiple reasons. Their initiatives may still fail to gain widespread acceptance, as the the Wii U did, but I think that's the better way to fail. They learn more from that kind of innovative failure than simply having a PS4 clone tank in the market.

Eh, it's not the hardware that makes a console different. It's the LINE UP. Nintendo could literally have the exact same hardware as the PS4 in the NX, but a completely different line up that would make it a completely different machine. At the same time, they could have an underpowered machine with a weird ass architecture and share the exact same games as the PS4. Now that's a PS4 clone (with worse graphics), and no one would buy it. But if they can have their games, exclusive collaborations with both japanese and western studios AND more third party multiplatform games compared to now, and a similar and more straightforward architecture would help them getting those, that's only (objectively) better. More choices for everyone and all that stuff. It's not like we have to choose between having Bayonetta 3 with the weird weak architecture or FIFA18 with the powerful one.

Then of course they should find a way to evolve their controllers, i already suggested they should have an improved version of the gamepad, with a smaller screen and the shape of a normal controller, but doing weird stuff like the touch buttons or other things like that (and at the expense of everything else) is wrong, and the Wii U kind of proved it. Having a normal controller with extra functions thanks to the screen is quite different than having a giant plasticky tablet that only works well with some games and ruins the experience with others. So they should stay away from the weird stuff, unless it REALLY works in ways we can't possibly imagine right now... but then it wouldn't be that weird, right? It would be a proper innovation/evolution, and i'm totally fine with those, even if it means slightly weaker hardware.

To be clear, i don't think they'll match the PS4 specs (or that they need to). I think 1tflop is the absolute best we can expect, but i hope that this choice will be matched by an interesting concept and a low price. 350$ for a "360++" with a fisher price tablet was never going to work, sadly. And a Wii U-bis (as in a different, low powered machine with a weird gimmick) would probably share the same results.

EDIT: these are the reasons I expect a touchscreen implementation with Nintendo's next hardware
1)They've proven the usefulness and convenience of having a secondary screen on the controller (additional control interfaces, off-tv play etc.)
2)They've already done the hardware R&D to make streaming work and gained experience creating software that uses both screens
3)They already have a body of legacy software that requires a secondary touchscreen which has implications for virtual console
4)Upcoming mobile software will most likely utilize touch interfaces and they'll probably desire compatibility with their dedicated devices

Despite some calls for a clean break from Wii U, abandoning a useful, if not groundbreaking, innovation didn't sit will with me.
One of the compelling things about the Wii was the resemblance of the controller to a device even the most technologically illiterate have used: the TV remote.
Applying this "familiarity bias" to the preferences of core gamers suggests that a screen-enabled controller that looks and feels more like a controller than a tablet may have a greater appeal.
This patent seems to be trying to bridge the gap between buttons and the touchscreen by integrating them more into a unified control method.
The issue of covering content with your fingers is a complete non-issue. If the area adjacent to the sticks will be used for button-llike inputs who's going to render a boss there?
Quite probably, those areas would be sectioned off and used for the HUD just as some DS games used the lower screen exclusively for screen buttons or HP gauges etc.
I think haptic feedback will be a distinct possibility since it seems right up Nintendo's lane (they've had rumble since N64) and synergizes well with screen buttons.
I'm intrigued.

Like i said i'm on board with a secondary screen, and for roughly the same reasons you're pointing out, just not with the extra stuff proposed (touch buttons in this case, but the free-form display too if it means skyrocketing the price of the console and cutting other stuff to sell it at an acceptable price). Then hey, if they do that and they prove me wrong by actually making it work and successful i'll be happy.

 

[Jorok Goldblade]

I guess I'm picturing it more as 1x device, part of which is portable. Farfetched I know, but could possibly work.

I don't see that happening simply for the fact that you'd be looking at a potential $600 launch price if it was a handheld and home console. Far easier to move units as separate SKUs than to price themselves out of their market.

 

[Caesar III]

A friend of mine managed to pass on some leaked design docs:

Change the Button Label from A to "WIN" and sell it to Ubisoft!

 

[The_Lump]

I don't see that happening simply for the fact that you'd be looking at a potential $600 launch price if it was a handheld and home console. Far easier to move units as separate SKUs than to price themselves out of their market.

Well that was kind of the point of my first post: would it be possible to put out a mid-specced box plus a portable "Gamepad+"(supplemented by the cloud), in 2016, for ~$350.

The answer is likely no, but that was what I was pondering anyhow.

 

[Turrican3]

Let's say nintendo pulled a $350 combo price - a logical question many customers would ask would be 'Could I have the console for $200 sans the handheld, or the handheld for $150 sans the console?'

What if they were told that the $200 unit without the handheld would perform worse (or let's say, broadly speaking, have less features) ?

 

[blu]

What if they were told that the $200 unit without the handheld would perform worse (or let's say, broadly speaking, have less features) ?

That's a good point which would be addressed by an extra console+handheld SKU, not by the absence of console-only & handheld-only SKUs ; )

 

[Turrican3]

But then why bother with an NX home altogether?
I mean, if you're going to have an hypothetical, "stand alone" NX home that is basically as powerful (or just slightly more powerful) than the handheld, one might wonder if they couldn't just add a video out port to the handheld and call it a day.

Of course a desire for keeping things simple (and cheap!) it's understandable, but I think a home console should offer significant advantages to potential owners. That is, assuming an NX "home + handheld" SKU is actually able to deliver some kind of tangible extra computing power, as per the other thread patent.

Not to mention that making the "extra computing device" optional would likely seriously harm the chances of having actually improved software for the (allegedly) more powerful home console. It would basically become an add-on situation again, with totally unpredictable potential audience... hardly an ideal scenario IMHO.

PS: re-reading your post, I'd clarify: by the way I am proposing a "home + handheld" SKU *and* a handheld-only SKU, not just the former

 

[Graphics Horse]

I wonder what it would be like if you had a pad that could slide but also had digital tilt like a dpad seperately. or a slidepad with 4 buttons on top but that would probably be too bulky.

But then why bother with an NX home altogether?
I mean, if you're going to have an hypothetical, "stand alone" NX home that is basically as powerful (or just slightly more powerful) than the handheld, one might wonder if they couldn't just add a video out port to the handheld and call it a day

Ask Sony. or rather don't as that wasn't a great success.

I think the main advantage to a spec bumped home system would be local multiplayer, it basically means they can cover the two traditional bases of a 'family' system and the more personal portable system.
If every player requires a handheld instead of a controller, then that would make it irrelevant, but i'm not expecting that to be the case.

 

[Turrican3]

Ask Sony. or rather don't as that wasn't a great success.

Yup.
That's also why I can't see them just putting a handheld-level HW on the home...

 

[maxcriden]

How would everyone feel about the possibility of them putting the normal plastic yxba buttons on the back side of the controller? Maybe ba on one side with an lz and same with ba rz on right if not all four on the same side. How about putting the analog sticks or sliders on back side and using digital button presses for face buttons? Do you think we could reasonably be able to get accustomed to controlling games movements with a pointer or middle finger on the backside of a controller? Be able to get good enough with it that we could control games accurately enough to at least relatively close to what we do now with normal analog sticks we're accustomed to
now? Or do you think we couldn't condition ourselves to make precise movements with those fingers like we can with our thumbs?

Don't crucify me if there's reasons that would make it stupid that I haven't thought of. I'm just thinking outside the box and was curious to know others thoughts on it.

Not at all meaning to be harsh on your idea, but I don't think buttons on the back of the controller are practical. For one, when you place the controller on the floor or shelf, the buttons could be accidentally pressed and mess up an ongoing game. But more importantly, I suspect having the buttons with their designated number or letter facing the player makes games easier and more straightforward esp. for casual players and really for all players...I think there's a direct connection between seeing the buttons and having basic mastery over using them. As users of devices we're just not accustomed to pressing buttons we can't see.

Take a look at Wii and Wii U that uses cheap components and looks like Fisher-Price made them. Do you actually believe that Nintendo will use premium expensive components in NX like a free-form display screen, which is expensive to manufacture according to Sharp, and the rumored "industry leading ships", also expensive? I'm not so sure about that because Nintendo is all about profit. I can't find the exact quote but Tatsumi said something about wanting to top Wii sales with NX so the console must be profitable (cheap).

He also said something about the NX being "different" and that it will offer "a totally new experience". To me that reads gimmick. And that's the one thing I don't want.

FWIW I don't think anyone would think a free-form display was a possibility if we had no evidence for it, bit between the earlier rumors and current patent it's definitively something Nintendo is at least strongly exploring.

Just to make it clear: my take is that nintendo could have a home unit which could cooperate with their handheld unit, the latter used as a controller, despite the home unit having a sufficiently functional, alas less-feature-rich controller, in the box.

Even if nintendo managed to launch a very affordable handhed/home-unit package price, I'd expect certain psychological factors to stop nintendo from making that non-optional. Because free-market choices for the customer mandate that you don't force them to buy your handheld so that they could play your console, and vice versa. Let's say nintendo pulled a $350 combo price - a logical question many customers would ask would be 'Could I have the console for $200 sans the handheld, or the handheld for $150 sans the console?' After all, those are supposed to be independently operable, regardless what they could do when paired.

I see your point. But I worry that if the NX console requires use of a GamePad device as a controller, it's the Wii U all over again. So I truly hope they don't do that because then consumers will be confused at best about how this isn't just a Wii U which they've barely heard of (still this is the case across the casual player sphere!), and disinterested at worst. I don't see the NX conse as requiring a controller with a screen. It will muddy the message far too much.

I guess I'm picturing it more as 1x device, part of which is portable. So like a WiiU but with a portable "Gamepad+" which is partially functional alone, but gets a boost from the cloud when online. Farfetched I know, but could possibly work.

I think Nintendo themselves have confirmed it won't be a hybrid device per se. So you've got a console with a question mark of a controller and a handheld, and maybe multiple form factors.

I don't see that happening simply for the fact that you'd be looking at a potential $600 launch price if it was a handheld and home console. Far easier to move units as separate SKUs than to price themselves out of their market.

Well that was kind of the point of my first post: would it be possible to put out a mid-specced box plus a portable "Gamepad+"(supplemented by the cloud), in 2016, for ~$350.

The answer is likely no, but that was what I was pondering anyhow.

To these two posts. I was saying to anihawk in another thread that I imagine if we are looking at a handheld and console launching together, a handheld could be $150, console could be $250, and a combo back could be $350. Is that unrealistic in pricing? I know there was a rumor a while back that the console and/or handheld would have an unexpectedly low MSRP.

But then why bother with an NX home altogether?
I mean, if you're going to have an hypothetical, "stand alone" NX home that is basically as powerful (or just slightly more powerful) than the handheld, one might wonder if they couldn't just add a video out port to the handheld and call it a day.

Of course a desire for keeping things simple (and cheap!) it's understandable, but I think a home console should offer significant advantages to potential owners. That is, assuming an NX "home + handheld" SKU is actually able to deliver some kind of tangible extra computing power, as per the other thread patent.

Not to mention that making the "extra computing device" optional would likely seriously harm the chances of having actually improved software for the (allegedly) more powerful home console. It would basically become an add-on situation again, with totally unpredictable potential audience... hardly an ideal scenario IMHO.

PS: re-reading your post, I'd clarify: by the way I am proposing a "home + handheld" SKU *and* a handheld-only SKU, not just the former

I agree with all of this, I think. It's early and I'm still kinda waking up so I'm not 100% sure I got all of it...but I think I concur. Essentially the NX console needs to stand shoulder to shoulder with the XB1 at the least in terms of pure gameplay power. The handheld needs to be at least more powerful than a 3DS and hopefully more in the Vita power range. I don't know how clearly Nintendo can communicate this cloud power boost stuff but I would be surprised if it was happening on such a direct level. I thought it was more of a general rendering boost for games hooked to the cloud than a processing boost idea for systems so hopefully someone can clarify that for me.

 

[The_Lump]

I agree with all of this, I think. It's early and I'm still kinda waking up so I'm not 100% sure I got all of it...but I think I concur. Essentially the NX console needs to stand shoulder to shoulder with the XB1 at the least in terms of pure gameplay power. The handheld needs to be at least more powerful than a 3DS and hopefully more in the Vita power range. I don't know how clearly Nintendo can communicate this cloud power boost stuff but I would be surprised if it was happening on such a direct level. I thought it was more of a general rendering boost for games hooked to the cloud than a processing boost idea for systems so hopefully someone can clarify that for me.

Yeah that's the key for me. Nintendo generally doesn't aim to put out complex products. Arguably the WiiU was too complex of an idea for them to communicate effectively to average joe; which lead to, or at least contributed greatly to, it's failure.

This cloud business would in my view have to be something which is fundamental to the product rather than some kind of USP to drive the marketing.