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Nioh Alpha Demo Feedback

Nephtes

Member
If they:
- Fix the "floaty" camera
- Fix controls so R1 and R2 attack and o button rolls and runs (Like Dark Souls/ Bloodborne)
- Increase text size on item pick up
- Brighten the setting a bit so I can actually see stuff
- Tighten up controls (lock on needs to enable strafing instead of free look)

Then they have a purchase from me.

It feels like a Souls game ... But through a foggy lens. They need to clear the fog away to earn Souls fans business.
 

Kyoufu

Member
There are two items for restoring durability: whetstones for weapons, and Nuwela (sp?) glue for armor. What's nice is that using them restores durability to all equipped slots for their respective class, so you only need one to enjoy the benefits.

It may not be such a bad idea for them to consider an option at a shrine to be able to pay for repairs in addition to those consumeables, but perhaps that's something being saved for the final game.

They should remove durability too. Nobody will miss it. It's an incredibly pointless mechanic that has somehow found its way into these games.
 

garyizraw

Banned
But tapping square/triangle/X while holding L1 is exactly how you perform the timing-sensitive defensive countermeasures that other posters have mentioned. What you're suggesting won't work.

The defensive aspect of combat in Nioh is not like a Souls game at all. The sooner you move past your expectations in that regard, the better.

Do you have to reach a certain point in the demo to parry, i just went through all my stances he does nothing while I hold L1
 

moozoom

Member
I'd like them to adjust the lock-on. I get that they want to preserve mobility but if the lock-on could be "magnetic" of sorts, It could help. What I mean is that once an enemy is locked, you can strafe around him (without guarding and being slow) but if you stray too far, you can run freely.

Also a real tutorial area or "dojo" could help to understand and practice with the stamina system and stances.

nope

git gud

Hopefully, all the "git gud" people will move to Nioh threads so I can enjoy Souls thread again. You know, like discussing some difficult moments without having a demeaning stereotypical braggart answer being repeated ad lib.
 
Made it known that I'm not a fan of the rate at which weapons degrade.

I loved the alpha demo, but I think the game would be stronger if weapons and armor dropped at a less frequent rate, but their durability was twice as good.
 

HStallion

Now what's the next step in your master plan?
I think the one thing this game does that really puts the Souls games to shame is the load times. After dying in Bloodborne it could take upwards of 30 seconds to load before you could start playing again but in this game it takes maybe a couple seconds, maybe, before you are back in the game playing after you die. In a game where you will be dying frequently this is a god send. Combine that with the fact that they're aiming for a 60 fps resolution is really impressive. From Software needs to step it up on the tech side after a game like this.

That and this game gives you the option to prioritize frame rate over graphics or vice versa. Wish more games would do this!
 

Kyoufu

Member
Hopefully, all the "git gud" people will move to Nioh threads so I can enjoy Souls thread again. You know, like discussing some difficult moments without having a demeaning stereotypical braggart answer being repeated ad lib.

I hope for this too. Instead of offering helpful, constructive advice some assholes just hop on the "git gud" bandwagon and it's fucking irritating.
 
"As a result of the alpha test and feedback from our players, we've decided to add a "EZ Press X for Awesome difficulty""

Demo was awesome. Reminded me of playing BB for the first time and learning how to play all over again, except this was obviously to a much greater degree. Finished up both bosses and can't wait for the full version.
 
I hope for this too. Instead of offering helpful, constructive advice some assholes just hop on the "git gud" bandwagon and it's fucking irritating.
To be fair, I've seen some of this happen in Souls threads too.

And this game does seem a lot more skill-based than Souls. Souls is mainly about timing, this game is a mixture of various elements and systems.
 

soultron

Banned
Do you have to reach a certain point in the demo to parry, i just went through all my stances he does nothing while I hold L1

When you level up, you might notice that you get Ninja Skill Points (I think that's what they're called.) and you can use those to unlock new weapon skills.

You can unlock stuff like parrying (tap L1 exactly when enemy attacks) and moves that push enemies back, make you switch places with them, and more. The latter moves mentioned require you to hold L1 (guard stance) and then to time a tap of Square, Triangle or X that leave you open if you don't time it correctly.

You customize your moveset depending on the weapon, so you can customize combo strings and the defensive stuff I mentioned above.
 

Nephtes

Member
I swear too, people in the Ni Oh alpha thread telling me I need to "change my expectations" to enjoy the game need to see their way out.

Ni Oh clearly has a souls-a-like thing going for it...
They're actively courting that audience with their marketing around the "Are you ready to Die?" message.

I don't have to spend my money on the game, and if it doesn't cater to my expectations, I won't buy the game. There's no harm or foul to it... We all make purchasing decisions based off expectations.

If you're expecting to play a Zelda game, it doesn't behoove you to buy Madden 2017 or whatever...

If you're expecting Dark Souls and Ni Oh doesn't move itself closer to the Souls formula after the alpha test, then it doesn't behoove you to buy NiOh.
It's as simple as that.
 

ZanDatsu

Member
I dunno why the controls are so bad in a game by Team Ninja. I mean, they are so bad... I don't even wanna keep playing. It's not much of a looker either.
 

myco666

Member
Oh also forgot to mention that the blocking feels really inconsistent at the first boss. Sometimes I can block its attacks but sometimes those same attacks hit me when I have full stamina and hold block way before the attack connects and get hit by it.

There are two items for restoring durability: whetstones for weapons, and Nuwela (sp?) glue for armor. What's nice is that using them restores durability to all equipped slots for their respective class, so you only need one to enjoy the benefits.

It may not be such a bad idea for them to consider an option at a shrine to be able to pay for repairs in addition to those consumeables, but perhaps that's something being saved for the final game.

Oh there is a item to repair armor? Totally missed that but it should definitely have a option to repair stuff at Shrines (or even have auto repair at them).

If they:
- Fix the "floaty" camera
- Fix controls so R1 and R2 attack and o button rolls and runs (Like Dark Souls/ Bloodborne)
- Increase text size on item pick up
- Brighten the setting a bit so I can actually see stuff
- Tighten up controls (lock on needs to enable strafing instead of free look)

Then they have a purchase from me.

It feels like a Souls game ... But through a foggy lens. They need to clear the fog away to earn Souls fans business.

You can set the brightness higher in options? I can see everything that I need to see.
 

soultron

Banned
I swear too, people in the Ni Oh alpha thread telling me I need to "change my expectations" to enjoy the game need to see their way out.

Ni Oh clearly has a souls-a-like thing going for it...
They're actively courting that audience with their marketing around "Are you ready to Die?" message.

I don't have to spend my money on the game, and if it doesn't cater to my expectations, I won't buy the game. It's as simple as that. There's no harm or foul to it... We all make purchasing decisions based off expectations.

If you're expecting to play a Zelda game, it doesn't behoove you to buy Madden 2017 or whatever...

If you're expecting Dark Souls and Ni Oh doesn't move itself closer to the Souls formula after the alpha test, then it doesn't behoove you to buy NiOh.
It's as simple as that.
With the exception of things like certain items, player progression (gaining and spending experience to level up, etc.) and world progression with things like the Shrines/Bonfires, Nioh itself doesn't really play like DS at all. For example, stamina for you and the enemies is a huge thing in Nioh.
 

Nephtes

Member
With the exception of things like certain items, player progression (gaining and spending experience to level up, etc.) and world progression with things like the Shrines/Bonfires, Nioh itself doesn't really play like DS at all. For example, stamina for you and the enemies is a huge thing in Nioh.

Are you suggesting stamina management in Dark Souls/Bloodborne isn't a huge thing?
 
I swear too, people in the Ni Oh alpha thread telling me I need to "change my expectations" to enjoy the game need to see their way out.

Ni Oh clearly has a souls-a-like thing going for it...
They're actively courting that audience with their marketing around the "Are you ready to Die?" message.

I don't have to spend my money on the game, and if it doesn't cater to my expectations, I won't buy the game. There's no harm or foul to it... We all make purchasing decisions based off expectations.

If you're expecting to play a Zelda game, it doesn't behoove you to buy Madden 2017 or whatever...

If you're expecting Dark Souls and Ni Oh doesn't move itself closer to the Souls formula after the alpha test, then it doesn't behoove you to buy NiOh.
It's as simple as that.
Lords of the Fallen was a souls-a-like thing. That thing was even touted as the western Dark Souls but this game is like an action game that's taking queues from Dark Souls. There are definitely common elements but as a whole, it is it's own thing. Ni-Oh is much more about mobility,action and has much more of a hack-n-slash feel than any From game has had.
 

Ryuuga

Banned
I was hating on the frequency of loot until I realized the usefulness of shrine offerings. The combat system is without a doubt my favorite thing about the game. The high/med/low makes for some strategic encounters. I think my absolute favorite thing about the game is that all enemies (bosses included) have the same restrictions via stamina. You're also able to time your blocks and evades based on your enemies stance once you get used to the tells. I had some gripes with the movement at first but only because I was overly cautious of my initial encounters. Once you start learning to take advantage of ki pulse (the stamina recover mechanic) and unlock able skills that deflect, parry and riposte you'll start finding that there isn't much reason to dart around while engaged in combat. I'm definitely buying this day one. Honestly I'm enjoying this more than DS3 at the moment. Not that I'm directly comparing the two but because it was the most recent game I've played with a similar feel.
 

ironcreed

Banned
"As a result of the alpha test and feedback from our players, we've decided to add a "EZ Press X for Awesome difficulty""

LOL, to be fair, I feel like they could dial it back a tad and it would still be an absolutely brutal challenge. It's a hard as nails game... period.
 
I swear too, people in the Ni Oh alpha thread telling me I need to "change my expectations" to enjoy the game need to see their way out.

Ni Oh clearly has a souls-a-like thing going for it...
They're actively courting that audience with their marketing around the "Are you ready to Die?" message.

I don't have to spend my money on the game, and if it doesn't cater to my expectations, I won't buy the game. There's no harm or foul to it... We all make purchasing decisions based off expectations.

If you're expecting to play a Zelda game, it doesn't behoove you to buy Madden 2017 or whatever...

If you're expecting Dark Souls and Ni Oh doesn't move itself closer to the Souls formula after the alpha test, then it doesn't behoove you to buy NiOh.
It's as simple as that.

Wait do you just want a Souls game? Y'know you can just play those ones, there's like 5 of them. (probably a 6th one on the way)

Nioh is its own thing. But it certainly borrows elements from Souls, but it is no way a clone.
 

Pif

Banned
- No exclusive DLC for people who felt like playing a demo;

- difficulty toggle: your game is hardcore, but my spare time is even more. Please, easy mode for people who are just there for the ride;

- pause button: this is not 1983 anymore.

- 60 fps.

Thats my feedback.
 
I dunno why the controls are so bad in a game by Team Ninja. I mean, they are so bad... I don't even wanna keep playing. It's not much of a looker either.

Yeah, art direction is quite bland, I wasn't paying attention to that this time but I can see that being an issue as the game goes on.
 

Nephtes

Member
Lords of the Fallen was a souls-a-like thing. That thing was even touted as the western Dark Souls but this game is like an action game that's taking queues from Dark Souls. There are definitely common elements but as a whole, it is it's own thing. Ni-Oh is much more about mobility,action and has much more of a hack-n-slash feel than any From game has had.

This doesn't make anything I said less true.
If they release the game in it's current state with the unresponsive camera and lack of lock on strafing and inability to remap attacks to R1 and R2... Then it won't be Souls enough for many Souls fans (myself included)

Wait do you just want a Souls game? Y'know you can just play those ones, there's like 5 of them. (probably a 6th one on the way)

Nioh is its own thing. But it certainly borrows elements from Souls, but it is no way a clone.

I wish more games were like Souls games...From Software does not put them out as fast as I can consume them...

So I would absolutely love more companies to copy the formula with different stories and settings. Yes. Absolutely.
Ni Oh definitely is courting the Souls market.
Go look at their marketing message... "Are you ready to die?"

Come on.
 
This doesn't make anything I said less true.
If they release the game in it's current state with the unresponsive camera and lack of lock on strafing and inability to remap attacks to R1 and R2... Then it won't be Souls enough for many Souls fans (myself included)

But why are you expecting a series that's not Souls to be exactly like Souls? Why not just stick with a Souls game if that's what you want.
 
This doesn't make anything I said less true.
If they release the game in it's current state with the unresponsive camera and lack of lock on strafing and inability to remap attacks to R1 and R2... Then it won't be Souls enough for many Souls fans (myself included)

I'm a Souls fan. I like Nioh. They aren't the same game or even style at all. The combat is fundamentally different. Are you sad that it isn't a straight up clone?
 
It'd be nice to have a quick equip menu, in addition to a menu where you can see the most recent items you've picked up.

I don't want to go through my whole inventory to find things, but I appreciate the exclamation mark when you pick something new up. Very helpful.
 
This doesn't make anything I said less true.
If they release the game in it's current state with the unresponsive camera and lack of lock on strafing and inability to remap attacks to R1 and R2... Then it won't be Souls enough for many Souls fans (myself included)

Your point? If you wanna play dark souls go play dark souls, then go play dark souls.

It's a hard as nails game... period.

It really wont be though, it will just be like the mainstream adoption of souls, people will "git gud".
 

Nephtes

Member
But why are you expecting a series that's not Souls to be exactly like Souls? Why not just stick with a Souls game if that's what you want.

As stated above... I've played all the Souls games already.

FROM Software cannot make Souls games fast enough for the rabid fan base to consume them. And it would be great if more companies copy the basic gameplay/control format with different settings and stories.

Ni Oh is CLEARLY attempting to do this... And as of the alpha, failing by just a little.

Your point? If you wanna play dark souls go play dark souls, then go play dark souls.

I feel if you went back through my posts in this thread you'd have your answer without any more word expenditure on my part.
 

ironcreed

Banned
It really wont be though, it will just be like the mainstream adoption of souls, people will "git gud".

I think we still would have to even if they turned it down just a bit. I am buying it either way, but yeah, I will not complain if they rebalance it some. Amazing game, but as brutally hard as it gets.
 
Are you suggesting stamina management in Dark Souls/Bloodborne isn't a huge thing?

I think he meant for both the player and enemy. Stamina isn't something you think about with Souls enemies, you think "are they done with their combo yet" or "I need to get behind him when he's swinging forward". The only time stamina comes into play for enemies in Souls is when you're using greatswords or similar weapons that can stagger them out of turtling. That's it. Edit: Now that I think about it, I think that's actually related to poise - not stamina.
Nioh finally presents an even playing field for humanoid enemies WITHOUT buffing them with 10x their normal health. It's refreshing. It reminds me of Bushido Blade.
 
As stated above... I've played all the Souls games already.

FROM Software cannot make Souls games fast enough for the rabid fan base to consume them.
I personally think you need to temper your expectations. The game is definitely going to be a lot more combat and mobility heavy than souls ever was, with completely different systems. There's no guarantee that just because a person liked Souls will like this.

Though if a person liked Souls only for the difficulty then this is still a good choice for them.
 

Nephtes

Member
I personally think you need to temper your expectations. The game is definitely going to be a lot more combat and mobility heavy than souls ever was, with completely different systems. There's no guarantee that just because a person liked Souls will like this.

Though if a person liked Souls only for the difficulty then this is still a good choice for them.

Go back to the top of page 2 and look at what I'm asking for them to fix.
Am I really asking for all that much for the game to meet my expectations?

Fix the camera so it doesn't feel floaty, allow button remapping for Souls style layout, allow lock on to enable strafing, increase some font sizes?

I mean wow... My expectations are VERY unreasonable.
 

MMaRsu

Banned
- No exclusive DLC for people who felt like playing a demo;

- difficulty toggle: your game is hardcore, but my spare time is even more. Please, easy mode for people who are just there for the ride;

- pause button: this is not 1983 anymore.

- 60 fps.

Thats my feedback.

Difficulty toggle takes away game design aspect of each player going through the same stuff. Also you should just try to get better at the game if you dont like the diffuliculty I dont think its for you.

Pause button, totally agreed, unless you are online.

60 fps would be a godsend, whats the fps now?
 

OVDRobo

Member
Personally getting slightly annoyed at all the people that are completely misinterpreting what this game is. No, it's not Dark Souls. No, it's not Devil May Cry. It's Ni-Oh.

The closest thing I can think of in terms of game description is that it's Ninja Gaiden x Dark Souls. Anyone that has played Ninja Gaiden is well aware of how brutally punishing those games are and anyone that has played a Souls game knows how mechanically dense and trial-by-fire those games are.

I'm not disagreeing that the game has issues at all. The lock-on system is garbage. The game looks like ass and yes, the enemies probably have slightly too much HP or too much damage in the current state of the game, though it's my opinion that only one of these needs to be lowered, whether it's the HP to make battles for quick and decisive or the damage to make it closer to Dark Souls in that you can take 5 or so hits before dying instead of 2.

The systems are pretty solid though. The three stances give you options between speed (low), defence (medium) and offense (high) and an entire unique moveset with more attacks, parries, special moves etc. being added as your character levels up.

The Ki system is also great. Yeah, it sucks when you run out of Ki and your character stands there panting before likely getting knocked on his ass if not outright killed, but that should never be happening. The Ki charge mechanic is really simple even if the game doesn't do a good job of explaining it. Any time you attack, the red parts of the ki bar that you expended in the attack string start refilling with white. Tapping R1 refills that bar to that point. The longer you leave it after an attack string, the more Ki you regenerate, but also the more open you leave yourself to attack, and if you don't hit R1 before you perform your next Ki-expending action, all of that Ki is lost and the Ki that would normally be expended is also spent.

The thing is, you can use this mechanic even when you are out of Ki after an attack string to restore a minuscule amount, which can then be used for something like an emergency dodge roll away. After that you're screwed, since you can't Ki charge after a dodge roll, but you probably were anyway if you were in that bad a situation.

The spear even gains a move so if you Ki charge after a certain period of regeneration, it triggers a powerful and quick interruptive spin while restoring your Ki meaning that you lose a lot of that vulnerability.
 

soultron

Banned
Are you suggesting stamina management in Dark Souls/Bloodborne isn't a huge thing?

I'm saying that it's a bigger mechanic in Nioh that also affects enemies. Player-initiated attacks drain enemy stamina that leave them open for attacks are a key component to how I'm playing it right now. Also, the fact that stamina consumption is balanced against damage across stances on a single weapon is pretty different from Dark Souls. Low Stance, IIRC, doesn't have a large stamina penalty for dodging, when compared to Mid or High Stance.
 

garyizraw

Banned
When you level up, you might notice that you get Ninja Skill Points (I think that's what they're called.) and you can use those to unlock new weapon skills.

You can unlock stuff like parrying (tap L1 exactly when enemy attacks) and moves that push enemies back, make you switch places with them, and more. The latter moves mentioned require you to hold L1 (guard stance) and then to time a tap of Square, Triangle or X that leave you open if you don't time it correctly.

You customize your moveset depending on the weapon, so you can customize combo strings and the defensive stuff I mentioned above.

I had added one ability and one jutsu the little spikes but had no idea about the parry and some of the other abilities. You've completely changed my perspective on the game. Also i finally understand KI Pulse now that I found the memory
 

Error

Jealous of the Glory that is Johnny Depp
I hope for this too. Instead of offering helpful, constructive advice some assholes just hop on the "git gud" bandwagon and it's fucking irritating.

you didn't ask for advice, you wanted them to abolish a system that can be used against enemies and it's not as punishing as some people made it out to be, just because you are not used to it. There's learning curve, and once you get over it you'll understand why fatigue as punishment for mindlessly button mashing is there.

And I'm pretty sure the game will have passives down the line where the ki pulse mechanic instantly recovers even more stamina.

it'll really suck for TN to tone down the difficulty, they just need to make it more like the beginning isn't as demoralizing for some people as it is right now.
 
Go back to the top of page 2 and look at what I'm asking for them to fix.
Am I really asking for all that much for the game to meet my expectations?

Fix the camera so it doesn't feel floaty, allow button remapping for Souls style layout, allow lock on to enable strafing, increase some font sizes?

I mean wow... My expectations are VERY unreasonable.
Your expectations are definitely reasonable. You should try increasing the brightness in-game btw.

It's just that the last part of your statement made it feel like making it more like Souls is the way to get that business when it most definitely isn't.
 

ironcreed

Banned
Yeah, I am fine with the stamina management. As noted, enemies have to deal with the same thing and it can work to your advantage. That should remain as-is and is a neat as hell system.
 
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