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Michael Pachter: The solution to expensive hardware will be to stream games to your TV.

There doesn't need to be a demand per se. This audience doesn't really demand anything. You put a product or service in front of them that they like or are interested in, and they'll use it. Mobile gaming is the best example of this. There was no demand for mobile gaming and yet it has become the biggest platform(based on revenue generated) in the gaming industry by a wide margin. GTA 6 is going to be a cultural phenomenon; you don't think there will be millions of people around the world who would love to check out that game and have no interest in buying a console? I do. Buying a $300+ console is a big commitment that many people aren't going to do, especially not for just one game they'll play for a month or two if that. Once game streaming becomes as simple as something like Netflix and it has all the popular games everyone is talking about day one it will be huge. Will it ever get to that point? We'll have to see.

Stadia failed because Google didn't understand the audience for game streaming. Google tried to go after console gamers by talking about all the advantages Stadia had over the Xbox One and PS4, big mistake. The audience for game streaming doesn't care about that because they aren't interested in the Xbox One or PS4. They also ran stadia on servers that didn't run Windows, which limited how many games were on the platform. Amazon doesn't even advertise Luna, so it had no chance of being successful. As for Ubisoft +, I thought that was Ubisoft's version of EA Play, not a streaming service. The audience for game streaming is people who want a low barrier of entry to play the games all their friends are talking about on social media and yes, there are a lot of people who fall into this category.

Does it? I thought streaming your own paid games was free because it works like remote play.

We've seen time and time again that people are going out of their way to NOT stream games. Most of the people that are currently doing so are the hardcore gamer.

Almost none of the casual gaming crowd has bought in on game streaming yet. And that's at relatively low monthly rates.

The business model doesn't work great on its own, unlessyou have to buy the game first.
 
We've seen time and time again that people are going out of their way to NOT stream games. Most of the people that are currently doing so are the hardcore gamer.

Almost none of the casual gaming crowd has bought in on game streaming yet. And that's at relatively low monthly rates.

The business model doesn't work great on its own, unlessyou have to buy the game first.
Streaming sucks. People say the latency is close to native, it's not.
 
Streaming sucks. People say the latency is close to native, it's not.

For most many games it's been good on my Portal. Even better on my PS5 at home, But I would never recommend it as the only way to play games.

And I'm a satisfied game streaming customer.
 
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As of now cloud gaming isn't a viable option for most players around the world due to lack of good enough internet connection quality, or having limited monthly amount download/upload caps, or being to distant from data caps.

Cloud gaming is ok as secondary niche for a few countries, but in the short and medium term isn't viable for more than that. Even more considering PS Plus Premium / GPU prices are too expensive for most people.
 
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For most many games it's been good on my Portal. Even better on my PS5 at home, But I would never recommend it as the only way to play games.

And I'm a satisfied game streaming customer.
I don't know. Just the though that my game is streaming would drive me mad. Videos can buffer and be downloaded.
 
I don't know. Just the though that my game is streaming would drive me mad. Videos can buffer and be downloaded.

I'm right there with you. I use it as a supplement to my main gaming. I only play indie games streaming only because for the most part latency isn't as necessary. As an example, I played 90% of NEVA streaming from the cloud on my Portal.

But it took me a while to get over what you just said. I would say it took me 6 months to get rid of that thought that I'm streaming a game and it kind of bothering me.
 
We've seen time and time again that people are going out of their way to NOT stream games. Most of the people that are currently doing so are the hardcore gamer.

Almost none of the casual gaming crowd has bought in on game streaming yet. And that's at relatively low monthly rates.

The business model doesn't work great on its own, unlessyou have to buy the game first.
There isn't a single game streaming platform out now that is targeting casuals, so of course, they wouldn't buy into it yet. XCloud is the closest, but it's not quite there yet. The Game streaming business model doesn't work on its own, but who said that it has to? Game streaming is just another option.
 
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Before that can be a possible most of North America's infrastructure needs to be upgraded to T1. Which should have happened decades ago.
 
Streaming is already a reality. GeForce Now came out of beta six years ago.
I think most people think GeForce is top-tier streaming. With that being the case...

Key Limitations: (pulled from google)

  • Monthly Time Limit: A 100-hour monthly cap applies to Performance and Ultimate tiers. Unused hours up to 15 can be rolled over to the next month.
  • Extra Time Costs: Exceeding 100 hours requires purchasing 15-hour blocks, costing roughly $2.99 for Performance and $5.99 for Ultimate members.
  • Session Limits: Even before hitting the monthly cap, sessions are capped (e.g., 6 hours for Performance, 8 hours for Ultimate).
  • Internet Dependence: Requires stable, high-speed, low-latency internet. 4K streaming requires at least 45-55 Mbps, while lower, less stable speeds result in degraded visual quality.
  • Game Library Limitations: Not all PC games are available. Games must be officially supported by the service.
  • Queue Times: Free tier users and sometimes paid members during peak times may experience queue waits to access servers.
  • Performance Tiers: "Free" users are limited to basic rigs, shorter 1-hour sessions, and lower performance compared to paid tiers.
Is google wrong? Streaming is a reality, but it will not be main way to access games.
 
Still have to buy a controller.

The company streaming games still has to buy the expensive hardware which will push the monthly streaming fee higher and higher. (streaming a game is on a whole other level than streaming a movie)

A year of streaming and the cost of a controller, you are going to be at console pricing within 12 months. It's a failed business idea and will not take off... like VR.
The year was 2010. The forum was AVS. Many a prognosticator felt this way about the side hustle Netflix was working on called Watch Now. "Who wants to watch a movie on their computer?" we wondered on the way to the post office. Gamefly was tagging my mailbox a couple times a week in this era, and I had a nuanced muscle memory of that soft, waxed-cotton texture of the Netflix disc sleeves. But the times changed. The only people with optical disc players in their house are reclusive weirdos and streaming video content is the law of the land. It couldn't happen to video games though. It makes way more sense to put a 128 GB of RAM in the PS7 and put one in every household in Kansas.
 
There isn't a single game streaming platform out now that is targeting casuals, so of course, they wouldn't buy into it yet. XCloud is the closest, but it's not quite there yet. The Game streaming business model doesn't work on its own, but who said that it has to? Game streaming is just another option.

Michael Pachter! It's right here in this thread made by the OP :messenger_tears_of_joy:
 
I think most people think GeForce is top-tier streaming. With that being the case...

Key Limitations: (pulled from google)

  • Monthly Time Limit: A 100-hour monthly cap applies to Performance and Ultimate tiers. Unused hours up to 15 can be rolled over to the next month.
  • Extra Time Costs: Exceeding 100 hours requires purchasing 15-hour blocks, costing roughly $2.99 for Performance and $5.99 for Ultimate members.
  • Session Limits: Even before hitting the monthly cap, sessions are capped (e.g., 6 hours for Performance, 8 hours for Ultimate).
  • Internet Dependence: Requires stable, high-speed, low-latency internet. 4K streaming requires at least 45-55 Mbps, while lower, less stable speeds result in degraded visual quality.
  • Game Library Limitations: Not all PC games are available. Games must be officially supported by the service.
  • Queue Times: Free tier users and sometimes paid members during peak times may experience queue waits to access servers.
  • Performance Tiers: "Free" users are limited to basic rigs, shorter 1-hour sessions, and lower performance compared to paid tiers.
Is google wrong? Streaming is a reality, but it will not be main way to access games.
The only real problem out of these are costs. On Ultimate none of the others matter much.

People who haven't tried Geforce Now on Ultimate have completely worthless opinions.

All other streaming options are like riding a bike, Geforce Now Ultimate is a motorcycle.
 
From his latest episode:

I believe that the prices are going to keep going up, and I think the solution to that is to get rid of consoles, and go to streaming games on your TV. Somebody is going to figure out how to play console games without a console, and we won't care. I've been predicting the end of the console life cycle for more than ten years.

Source:


There is never been a better time to abandon AAA gaming altogether. Emulation source sports and the 10+ year-old games that are all the most played. Will keep you going forever.
 
I look at it from positive side, since our antinostradamus :messenger_sunglasses: predicted solution being games streamed to our tvs(stadia/lumia alike) then it means streaming games hitting mainstrear/being viable is crazy far away and likely we got many gens before it even tries to replace traditional physical stationary consoles :)

Now i just need him to predict all publishers going hard on gaas and abandoning single player games making and i think we all gonna be golden here :messenger_smiling_hearts:
 
The only real problem out of these are costs. On Ultimate none of the others matter much.

People who haven't tried Geforce Now on Ultimate have completely worthless opinions.

All other streaming options are like riding a bike, Geforce Now Ultimate is a motorcycle.
I agree about cost and cost will increase if streaming becomes the main platform for gaming. However, my biggest problems are session limits, monthly time limits and queues. Sure, it would probably only be a problem for me at certain times, but when it shows up, it would be very frustrating. These things occur now with the limited number of gamers using streaming services. imagine how much more of an issue they become of most gamers are streaming.
 
Michael Pachter! It's right here in this thread made by the OP :messenger_tears_of_joy:
What? When did he say that? I didn't watch the whole video in the OP, but the quote in the OP doesn't say anything about Game streaming being the only way for companies to sell their games to customers. Consoles are on their way out, like MP3 players were decades ago; better devices are replacing them. Getting rid of consoles doesn't mean they can't sell you hardware; Nintendo still sells hardware, and they haven't released a console since the Wii U. I'd say by the PS8 generation Sony's hardware for those who don't use streaming will either be something like the Switch or a PlayStation-branded gaming PC.
 
There isn't a single game streaming platform out now that is targeting casuals, so of course, they wouldn't buy into it yet. XCloud is the closest, but it's not quite there yet. The Game streaming business model doesn't work on its own, but who said that it has to? Game streaming is just another option.
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With ever increasing diminishing returns on console leaps, why would we need this anyway?
You'll probably be able to rock a PS6 for like, 20 years.
 
I think most people think GeForce is top-tier streaming. With that being the case...

Key Limitations: (pulled from google)

  • Monthly Time Limit: A 100-hour monthly cap applies to Performance and Ultimate tiers. Unused hours up to 15 can be rolled over to the next month.
  • Extra Time Costs: Exceeding 100 hours requires purchasing 15-hour blocks, costing roughly $2.99 for Performance and $5.99 for Ultimate members.
  • Session Limits: Even before hitting the monthly cap, sessions are capped (e.g., 6 hours for Performance, 8 hours for Ultimate).
  • Internet Dependence: Requires stable, high-speed, low-latency internet. 4K streaming requires at least 45-55 Mbps, while lower, less stable speeds result in degraded visual quality.
  • Game Library Limitations: Not all PC games are available. Games must be officially supported by the service.
  • Queue Times: Free tier users and sometimes paid members during peak times may experience queue waits to access servers.
  • Performance Tiers: "Free" users are limited to basic rigs, shorter 1-hour sessions, and lower performance compared to paid tiers.
Is google wrong? Streaming is a reality, but it will not be main way to access games.

It's not wrong. And Google also doesn't mention the added latency, even with a solid connection. Playing Apex Legends trough Geforce Now, there's obvious artifacts in the distance after movement, like it's loading in the textures.
 
The year was 2010. The forum was AVS. Many a prognosticator felt this way about the side hustle Netflix was working on called Watch Now. "Who wants to watch a movie on their computer?" we wondered on the way to the post office. Gamefly was tagging my mailbox a couple times a week in this era, and I had a nuanced muscle memory of that soft, waxed-cotton texture of the Netflix disc sleeves. But the times changed. The only people with optical disc players in their house are reclusive weirdos and streaming video content is the law of the land. It couldn't happen to video games though. It makes way more sense to put a 128 GB of RAM in the PS7 and put one in every household in Kansas.
Movie streaming VS game streaming really isn't comparable. Videos can buffer, or even be downloaded and played offline. There's no interaction, so latency doesn't matter. Speed of light doesn't matter.
 
With ever increasing diminishing returns on console leaps, why would we need this anyway?
You'll probably be able to rock a PS6 for like, 20 years.

You can literally run AAA games of your damn phone. Just look at some of the most demanding games running on iPhone. And people like Michael Pachter predicts a future where cloud is our only option. Streaming low demanding games like indie titles is like using a bazooka to kill a bug.
 
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The year was 2010. The forum was AVS. Many a prognosticator felt this way about the side hustle Netflix was working on called Watch Now. "Who wants to watch a movie on their computer?" we wondered on the way to the post office. Gamefly was tagging my mailbox a couple times a week in this era, and I had a nuanced muscle memory of that soft, waxed-cotton texture of the Netflix disc sleeves. But the times changed. The only people with optical disc players in their house are reclusive weirdos and streaming video content is the law of the land. It couldn't happen to video games though. It makes way more sense to put a 128 GB of RAM in the PS7 and put one in every household in Kansas.
Who is renting an optical disc player in the cloud?
 
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What? When did he say that? I didn't watch the whole video in the OP, but the quote in the OP doesn't say anything about Game streaming being the only way for companies to sell their games to customers. Consoles are on their way out, like MP3 players were decades ago; better devices are replacing them. Getting rid of consoles doesn't mean they can't sell you hardware; Nintendo still sells hardware, and they haven't released a console since the Wii U. I'd say by the PS8 generation Sony's hardware for those who don't use streaming will either be something like the Switch or a PlayStation-branded gaming PC.

Oh, so you are one of "those" Nintendo Switch and Switch 2 isn't a console type guys. Gotcha!
 
Movie streaming VS game streaming really isn't comparable. Videos can buffer, or even be downloaded and played offline. There's no interaction, so latency doesn't matter. Speed of light doesn't matter.
If the rate of game streaming advancement keeps up, by the time PS6 is winding down it will be more than good enough for 95% of gamers. Hell I think we're already there for at least 50% of gamers. GeForce Now is very impressive. Sony is testing the waters with Pulse. It solves so many problems that the industry wants solved, it's just a matter of time.
 
If the rate of game streaming advancement keeps up, by the time PS6 is winding down it will be more than good enough for 95% of gamers. Hell I think we're already there for at least 50% of gamers. GeForce Now is very impressive. Sony is testing the waters with Pulse. It solves so many problems that the industry wants solved, it's just a matter of time.
Very ignorant. Solve what? You can't solve physics. Games will have added latency and worse picture quality. But you are probably talking about solving the "issue" of not having to pay for hardware. But you are just replacing expensive hardware with expensive subscriptions. And if, God forbid, they gain market dominance, they can just increase the subscription price and add more restrictions as much as they want. Suddenly you are enjoying 10 hours a month for 40 bucks.
 
If the rate of game streaming advancement keeps up, by the time PS6 is winding down it will be more than good enough for 95% of gamers. Hell I think we're already there for at least 50% of gamers. GeForce Now is very impressive. Sony is testing the waters with Pulse. It solves so many problems that the industry wants solved, it's just a matter of time.

Didn't you just see the restrictions people just listed currently for GeForce Now?
 
Streaming sucks. People say the latency is close to native, it's not.
mood GIF

Very ignorant. Solve what? You can't solve physics. Games will have added latency and worse picture quality. But you are probably talking about solving the "issue" of not having to pay for hardware. But you are just replacing expensive hardware with expensive subscriptions. And if, God forbid, they gain market dominance, they can just increase the subscription price and add more restrictions as much as they want. Suddenly you are enjoying 10 hours a month for 40 bucks.
Point Up Valour Fc GIF by OneSoccer

I will never stream any game ever. Fuck that. I will continue to pour money into traditional gaming, only.
 
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Didn't you just see the restrictions people just listed currently for GeForce Now?
I bet Nvidia added the 100 hour limit because they probably gained a few more members because of how expensive everything has become. Next in line is probably a price increase, followed by even more restrictions, but they can't pull the trigger just yet.
 
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THE Michael Pachter! Famous fudge connoisseur of the western hemisphere, he Pachts his own fudge you know, some even say he's the greatest fudge Pachter the world has ever known.
 
And magically the hardware cost is zero because it's in the "magic cloud."
It's amazing how they try to convince you that everything can be a social network, "all free."
 
And magically the hardware cost is zero because it's in the "magic cloud."
It's amazing how they try to convince you that everything can be a social network, "all free."

It's legit mind-blowing. They also act like all this Gen A.I. stuff is being done for free too.
 
And magically the hardware cost is zero because it's in the "magic cloud."
It's amazing how they try to convince you that everything can be a social network, "all free."
It doesn't, but I still don't get how 20 bucks a month for a RTX 5080 subscription is profitable for them. Do anyone know?
 
Michael Pachter just makes things up. He estimated a few days ago that Marathon will make $200m+ in revenue. This is with current sales of only ~1m @ $40 each.
 
It doesn't, but I still don't get how 20 bucks a month for a RTX 5080 subscription is profitable for them. Do anyone know?
Because its not yours 24 hours x 30 or 31 days. You get X number of hours and rest of the time its being used by other subscribers. 720 hours in a 30 day month. Max limit of 100 hours per subscriber. So they can fit at least 10 subs per 5080, so $200 a month in revenue. And quite a few prob dont max out their 100 hour allotment, so even more subs per gpu. And obviously their gpus are obtained at cost, no aib markups.
 
Didn't you just see the restrictions people just listed currently for GeForce Now?
I don't think anything in its current form will be the model of the future. It's just proof of concept. Nvidia is only throwing down "curious" money. Sony too. I even see advantages for myself tbh. My old games aren't going away, and developers can shoot for quality levels that can't be otherwise dreamed of. Big budget games have to cast a wide net in terms of tech specs. If Naughty Dog could put full effort into a game that only had ever had to be playable on a 5090, what would that look like? Streaming is the fastest path to that.
 
I don't think anything in its current form will be the model of the future. It's just proof of concept. Nvidia is only throwing down "curious" money. Sony too. I even see advantages for myself tbh. My old games aren't going away, and developers can shoot for quality levels that can't be otherwise dreamed of. Big budget games have to cast a wide net in terms of tech specs. If Naughty Dog could put full effort into a game that only had ever had to be playable on a 5090, what would that look like? Streaming is the fastest path to that.
Huh, I'd never thought about that part of it before So basically games would be streaming from a glorified console? That definitely would make it easier for developers.

In theory. There's still too many problems with streaming for it to actually work on the scale it'd need to in the real world, but yeah.
 
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