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[kevboard]

Both of these consoles are less powerful than my 3.5 year old RTX 4090. How exciting.

that shouldn't be surprising.
just think about the current consoles. both the PS5 and Series X were less powerful than a high end PC from 2018, and if the GTX10 series had proper RT acceleration instead of shader based RTX support only, then high end PCs from 2016 would have been more powerful as well. Because a Titan X is superior to the PS5 GPU in raster performance, and even without RT Cores can in some games actually keep up in terms of raytracing too

 

[March Climber]

 

[Clintizzle]

The Xbox team can't make the same mistakes 2wice right?

 

[MisterXDTV]

The Xbox team can't make the same mistakes 2wice right?

Twice? They started making this mistake 25 years ago....

LOL

 

[Artistic]

I hate to say it, but without exclusives, Xbox might be cooked.

Every great exclusive they've had, they've lost to Sony at some point. Way before the multiplatform strategy by Mr. Spencer.

 

[th4tguy]

That gap means nothing if
1: windows overhead eats up all of the performance advantage.
2: the system isn't bottlenecked elsewhere, like split memory pool
3: devs don't put in the effort to take advantage of the power because of the super low install base.

I still don't even understand how MS is going to deal with their users wanting to just use Steam store on the system.
MS needs to get their priorities straight. No one wants cocky Sony.

 

[joshwaan]

25 percent yeah... that's not going help I'm a big xbox fan also. It's hard been a fan these day's.

Go back to the 360 era please i know long gone one can dream.

 

[bitbydeath]

Both of these consoles are less powerful than my 3.5 year old RTX 4090. How exciting.

And now I've said that someone will say something about the price of the 4090. Yeah and whatever, I still can't get excited about a next generation that - at that point - will be a good deal less powerful than my 5 year old GPU. Why would I.

Name one generation where consoles have released stronger than PC.

PC will still see benefits and be pushed harder as the baseline moves, just like every other gen.

 

[Jet Set Willy]

Name one generation where consoles have released stronger than PC.

PC will still see benefits and be pushed harder as the baseline moves, just like every other gen.

Stronger than a 5 year old GPU? The current generation for a start.

 

[bitbydeath]

Stronger than a 5 year old GPU? The current generation for a start.

Stronger than PC.

 

[Jet Set Willy]

Stronger than PC.

I never said that though? Only that they won't be as strong as a 5 year old GPU.

 

[bitbydeath]

I never said that though? Only that they won't be as strong as a 5 year old GPU.

Why's that matter? Considering that GPU series is still the strongest today.

 

[reinking]

Both of these consoles are less powerful than my 3.5 year old RTX 4090. How exciting.

And now I've said that someone will say something about the price of the 4090. Yeah and whatever, I still can't get excited about a next generation that - at that point - will be a good deal less powerful than my 5 year old GPU. Why would I.

Who cares? You're in a console thread.

 

[Fafalada]

Stronger than PC.

That's a bit of an undefined target in most time-frames - whole systems are practically unbounded in PC space.
To be clear - there was never a generation of consoles where you couldn't buy a (significantly) more powerful CPU at the time of console launch.
The only exception being 'technically' PS3 but Cell really stretches the definition of a CPU.

That said - consoles having more powerful graphics accelerators at launch was - standard, even going all the way back into the 80ies, and it held up all the way to the 00s. GC/XBox was the first time where that line started to wobble, but it wasn't until 360 launch that you could truly say PC GPUs at launch were as fast or faster than a console.

 

[Lucie Goosey]

You can have all the power you like in your little box microsoft, just fucking make sure you DO SOMETHING WITH IT this time around.

It's a PC. Go install Steam or something

 

[Shogmaster]

The biggest lesson that slapped them in the face with XBSX vs PS5 was CLOCK THE DAMN GPU PROPERLY. If they even just increased the GPU clock to 2GHz, things would be different.

If MS doesn't clock AT2 to at least 3GHz, they need to shut it all down and stay home...

 

[slrbomber]

The biggest lesson that slapped them in the face with XBSX vs PS5 was CLOCK THE DAMN GPU PROPERLY. If they even just increased the GPU clock to 2GHz, things would be different.

If MS doesn't clock AT2 to at least 3GHz, they need to shut it all down and stay home...

I think it was the segmented unified memory and having a Series S with strict feature parity. That was the biggest blunder. I do agree though that clocking the GPU higher definitely helps and they should aim for 3GHz. I think Kepler confirmed Magnus GPU is likely to be clocked higher than on Orion.

 

[kevboard]

The biggest lesson that slapped them in the face with XBSX vs PS5 was CLOCK THE DAMN GPU PROPERLY. If they even just increased the GPU clock to 2GHz, things would be different.

If MS doesn't clock AT2 to at least 3GHz, they need to shut it all down and stay home...

I'm still saying they should patch the Series X and overclock it a bit...

they clearly have headroom to do it, the thing often draws 60 watts less than the PS5 under the same load and is wisper quiet due to the slow fan. a slightly louder fan wouldn't bother anyone... people put up with the jet engine sounds of the PS4 after all

wouldn't be unheard of, Sony allowed devs to overclock the PSP with an update as well, and Nintendo also added a higher clock handheld mode to the Switch 1 very soon after launch.

the hardware has wasted potential. allow a 2ghz mode that devs can trigger, maybe an alternative mode where the CPU gets downclocked a bit and the GPU gets more juice in return.

 

[Shogmaster]

I think it was the segmented unified memory and having a Series S with strict feature parity. That was the biggest blunder. I do agree though that clocking the GPU higher definitely helps and they should aim for 3GHz. I think Kepler confirmed Magnus GPU is likely to be clocked higher than on Orion.

Overall gen strategy wise, starving XBSS that 2 GB was the biggest blunder. Complicated RAM set up for XBSX is a meh for me.

As for Magnus. that would make sense since you are playing with at least 100 more watts than Orion...

 

[Hoddi]

Name one generation where consoles have released stronger than PC.

PC will still see benefits and be pushed harder as the baseline moves, just like every other gen.

The last two console generations absolutely pushed gaming technology forward. Xbox 360 brought multicore support in 2005 and PS4 made 32-bit OSes obsolete in 2013.

They might not have been 'stronger' than the high-end but both of them rendered 90% of gaming PCs obsolete within a year. King Kong and AC Unity being two examples that drove PC gamers mad.

 

[bitbydeath]

The last two console generations absolutely pushed gaming technology forward. Xbox 360 brought multicore support in 2005 and PS4 made 32-bit OSes obsolete in 2013.

They might not have been 'stronger' than the high-end but both of them rendered 90% of gaming PCs obsolete within a year. King Kong and AC Unity being two examples that drove PC gamers mad.

Games are now made with SSD's in mind too.

 

[kevboard]

Name one generation where consoles have released stronger than PC.

PC will still see benefits and be pushed harder as the baseline moves, just like every other gen.

the Xbox 360 had ATi tech that only released a year later as PC parts.

more powerful is relative tho, because a console doesn't need to be more powerful in every regard.
for example, was the NES more powerful than most home computers of the time? no... but could the Famicom seamlessly scroll the screen without any issue while home computers were barely able to do so? yes... did it have a more powerful CPU? no...

 

[DenchDeckard]

Both of these consoles are less powerful than my 3.5 year old RTX 4090. How exciting.

And now I've said that someone will say something about the price of the 4090. Yeah and whatever, I still can't get excited about a next generation that - at that point - will be a good deal less powerful than my 5 year old GPU. Why would I.

But, that's why as enthusiasts we spend that money on gaming pcs. To have next gen now.

Next gen ps6 is going to be adding path tracing to games. That will be there big thing and then just like ray tracing etc there will be pc users, like myself that will just think....we had that 3 to 5 years ago.

It's just the way it's always been with pc Vs console.

 

[Ozriel]

25 percent yeah... that's not going help I'm a big xbox fan also. It's hard been a fan these day's.

They should have made it much weaker instead?

 

[jufonuk]

I mean more power doesn't equal better sales.

 

[Alan Wake]

Feels like it won't matter. It'll probably be too expensive for most gamers anyway.

 

[Seomel]

Man i cant wait for next year. Console wars are upon as again with fake news, idiots using tflops as power measurement not knowing what they mean and everyone will be tech experts again

 

[Baemono]

I'm still saying they should patch the Series X and overclock it a bit...

they clearly have headroom to do it, the thing often draws 60 watts less than the PS5 under the same load and is wisper quiet due to the slow fan. a slightly louder fan wouldn't bother anyone... people put up with the jet engine sounds of the PS4 after all

wouldn't be unheard of, Sony allowed devs to overclock the PSP with an update as well, and Nintendo also added a higher clock handheld mode to the Switch 1 very soon after launch.

the hardware has wasted potential. allow a 2ghz mode that devs can trigger, maybe an alternative mode where the CPU gets downclocked a bit and the GPU gets more juice in return.

I recall people having PTSD because the PS5 would have occasional coil whine

 

[Jet Set Willy]

Who cares? You're in a console thread.

I play on both PC and console, like many here, it's just a gaming thread.

 

[Team Andromeda]

Both of these consoles are less powerful than my 3.5 year old RTX 4090. How exciting.

And now I've said that someone will say something about the price of the 4090. Yeah and whatever, I still can't get excited about a next generation that - at that point - will be a good deal less powerful than my 5 year old GPU. Why would I.

But that's been the case for PC's since the mid 90's. I don't get why PC owners feel the need to compare a console to the PC. A console is called a console for a reason & we all know the advantages & disadvantages that it brings

 

[Prodyhig]

Let's remember that extra percentage that Microsoft always includes on its devices:

https://www.gamespot.com/articles/starfield-will-run-at-30-fps-on-xbox-series-x-s/1100-6515086/

 

[Jet Set Willy]

But that's been the case for PC's since the mid 90's. I don't get why PC owners feel the need to compare a console to the PC. A console is called a console for a reason & we all know the advantages & disadvantages that it brings

1) No, we haven't seen consoles launching significantly less performant than 5 year old GPUs before.

2) I care because I play on both PC and console, and Sony is making their games console exclusive. So it's not like I even have a choice to play those on the weaker hardware. I was really hoping next gen consoles would have more heft. AMD's shitty GPUs holding back another fucking generation.

 

[Tobimacoss]

It's actually 30% or more, depending on the clocks.

If a 68 CU Helix premium console is only 30% more powerful than a 52 CU PS6 Orion, then imagine how much more powerful a 96 CU AT1 Xbox PC would be. Or even a 144 CU AT0 Xbox PC.

Helix flagship console is only the midrange chip out of the 5 RDNA5 dies AMD is creating for windows and Xbox.

 

[JimmyRustler]

that shouldn't be surprising.
just think about the current consoles. both the PS5 and Series X were less powerful than a high end PC from 2018, and if the GTX10 series had proper RT acceleration instead of shader based RTX support only, then high end PCs from 2016 would have been more powerful as well. Because a Titan X is superior to the PS5 GPU in raster performance, and even without RT Cores can in some games actually keep up in terms of raytracing too

Oh, I have no doubt that we will be surprised anyway.... that the vastly superior PC hardware won't be able to run the next games adequately but we will ne upgrade even further.

 

[winjer]

the Xbox 360 had ATi tech that only released a year later as PC parts.

more powerful is relative tho, because a console doesn't need to be more powerful in every regard.
for example, was the NES more powerful than most home computers of the time? no... but could the Famicom seamlessly scroll the screen without any issue while home computers were barely able to do so? yes... did it have a more powerful CPU? no...

But consoles and PCs at the time of the NES were completely different.
PCs were just work stations at the time, made for office and computing applications. Most didn't even have a GUI.
The NES had specialized hardware to render pixels, sprites and layers. So for these tasks, yes, the NES was vastly superior that a PC.

 

[Salty Pickle]

It's actually 30% or more, depending on the clocks.

If a 68 CU Helix premium console is only 30% more powerful than a 52 CU PS6 Orion, then imagine how much more powerful a 96 CU AT1 Xbox PC would be. Or even a 144 CU AT0 Xbox PC.

Helix flagship console is only the midrange chip out of the 5 RDNA5 dies AMD is creating for windows and Xbox.

It's more of a PC than a console at this point. Hence it should also be compared to PCs instead of other consoles since it also will be priced more like a PC than a console in the traditional sense.

It will also be running windows ffs.

 

[Tobimacoss]

It's more of a PC than a console at this point. Hence it should also be compared to PCs instead of other consoles since it also will be priced more like a PC than a console in the traditional sense.

It will also be running windows ffs.

Nah, it's a Console, they are doing both Xbox PC and Xbox Console form factors. Distinction is the Console would have fixed spec profiles in the Helix SKU.

 

[Salty Pickle]

Nah, it's a Console, they are doing both Xbox PC and Xbox Console form factors. Distinction is the Console would have fixed spec profiles in the Helix SKU.

It's clearly geared towards competing in the PC space rather than with consoles.

A $2000 device running windows is a "media PC" or something, not a console in my view.

 

[INC]

25% more power

100% less games

 

[vaibhavpisal]

25% more power

100% less games

More games too.

With steam.

 

[Tobimacoss]

It's clearly geared towards competing in the PC space rather than with consoles.

A $2000 device running windows is a "media PC" or something, not a console in my view.

There will be at least 2 or possibly 3 Console variants at different price points. MS has stated they want OEMs to do the cheaper options.

Bill of Materials for Helix flagship console is only $900 according to KeplerL2, so $1200 is likely. $2000 would be for the much more powerful Xbox PC.

24 CUs, 48 CUs, 68 CUs, 96 CUs, 192 CUs are the 5 RDNA5 dies. The 192 CU chip is for xCloud but can be cut down to 144 CUs for discrete graphics.

So OEMs can build consoles or PCs at any of those power levels. It's the same Helix/Xbox PC SKU that will scale all those hardware, with optimization profiles for the Helix flagship and maybe an S tier.

 

[Bojji]

Stronger than a 5 year old GPU? The current generation for a start.

1) No, we haven't seen consoles launching significantly less performant than 5 year old GPUs before.

2) I care because I play on both PC and console, and Sony is making their games console exclusive. So it's not like I even have a choice to play those on the weaker hardware. I was really hoping next gen consoles would have more heft. AMD's shitty GPUs holding back another fucking generation.

PS5 was stronger in raster than 2015 980ti.

So yeah, PS6 and Helix will be weaker than 5 years old PC top dog GPU. On the other hand, this 2022 GPU is still second best in 2026...

 

[Salty Pickle]

There will be at least 2 or possibly 3 Console variants at different price points. MS has stated they want OEMs to do the cheaper options.

Bill of Materials for Helix flagship console is only $900 according to KeplerL2, so $1200 is likely. $2000 would be for the much more powerful Xbox PC.

24 CUs, 48 CUs, 68 CUs, 96 CUs, 192 CUs are the 5 RDNA5 dies. The 192 CU chip is for xCloud but can be cut down to 144 CUs for discrete graphics.

So OEMs can build consoles or PCs at any of those power levels. It's the same Helix/Xbox PC SKU that will scale all those hardware, with optimization profiles for the Helix flagship and maybe an S tier.

But as a hybrid with PC space clearly in mind it is also priced more akin to a PC.

It needs the extra grunt because it competes with lmid gaming PCs being played on higher refresh monitors compared to a console which is mostly played on a 4K (or 1080p) screen at 60hz (120hz is gaining). Hence it's more expensive to manufacture and must be priced accordingly.

From a business perspective it is way out of reach from the bulk of console buyers price wise and needs PC buyers to also be interested in it so it needs to be able to run windows and PC functionality supporting printers, different M&K setups, streaming and whatnot.

 

[meech]

Current Xbox is a console and runs ownSKU of games . Next Xbox will be a PC with Windows and ability to install other stores, mods etc, and will run Windows version of games programmed for a myriad configurations. Forget the low level specialized API.

Microsoft most likely will offer incentives for targetting the hardware so people actually use the xbox store instead of steam(so that a "xbox" version of the game runs better than the steam version). Otherwise, why even bother releasing this pc?

 

[Team Andromeda]

1) No, we haven't seen consoles launching significantly less performant than 5 year old GPUs before.

2) I care because I play on both PC and console, and Sony is making their games console exclusive. So it's not like I even have a choice to play those on the weaker hardware. I was really hoping next gen consoles would have more heft. AMD's shitty GPUs holding back another fucking generation.

1) You make out like the Xbox One or PS4 GPU were world leading tech & the less said about the RSX inside the PS3, the better

2) I don't get why SONY making its game console exclusive affects you as a PC player. Even in the so-called glory days of consoles being apparently more powerful than the PC they always came up short.
Play Deus Ex, Quake 3 on the PS2 and have a laugh at how far they were off the PC version & the wonderful superpowerful PS2 couldn't even handle Doom 3, but that's what it is to be a console player.

 

[saintjules]

Both of these consoles are less powerful than my 3.5 year old RTX 4090. How exciting.

And now I've said that someone will say something about the price of the 4090. Yeah and whatever, I still can't get excited about a next generation that - at that point - will be a good deal less powerful than my 5 year old GPU. Why would I.

 

[Physiognomonics]

PS5 was stronger in raster than 2015 9080ti.

So yeah, PS6 and Helix will be weaker than 5 years old PC top dog GPU. On the other hand, this 2022 GPU is still second best in 2026...

You mean 2080ti?

 

[//DEVIL//]

PS5 was stronger in raster than 2015 9080ti.

So yeah, PS6 and Helix will be weaker than 5 years old PC top dog GPU. On the other hand, this 2022 GPU is still second best in 2026...

9080ti lol.

 

[Bojji]

9080ti lol.

Someday...

 

[twilo99]

This thing is shaping up to be much weaker than I expected… shame, hopefully an OEM can remedy the situation