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Tinfoilhatsron · Mar 31, 2017

Hey GAF Programmers, I just wanted some more prespectives on the situation and those who already have jobs or more successful than me might be able to give advice.

Some backstory: I'm attending a transfer university (KSU) and working towards a BS in CS. I recently had a major surgury done on my leg (I had to stay in the hospital multiple times because the skin graft wouldn't take or it would break down :/ ) and finally recovered, so my freshmen fall and spring semester were a bit lighter in terms of workload.

However, I was thinking of transfering toward Tech to finish my undergrad degree. I would take and finish some transfer classes for the Fall 2017 and attend in Spring 2017. I've been seeing how many credits transfer and what counts toward my degree and it might take a semester or year longer to graduate. Yet, another option would be to stay in my current school to just finish my degree, perhaps even a semester early. In between this I'm trying to look for internship opportunities. I'm also planning to apply for graduate school at Tech.

My question is: Should I stay in my current situation or transfer to Tech? Is prestige that important in job interviews and resumes for CS? GA Tech is known for their programming course so would I get a better education there? Also, any tips or advice on making a good resume?

I admit I'm totally ignorant on loads of things and my situation isn't really 'normal'. But I am seeking advice through appointments with my guidance counselor and career advisor. Any advice or criticism would be welcome. Thanks y'all.

rrs · Mar 31, 2017

get the degree at the ~~2-year~~current college and get a internship

seriously get an internship experience matters

shoreu · Mar 31, 2017

Check your inbox op

rrs said:
get the degree at the 2-year and get a internship

seriously get an internship experience matters

KSU is a 4 year school 3rd biggest in the state now iirc and it just merged with a school known for quality technical students

xevis · Mar 31, 2017

It's possible to succeed without a fancy name school on your CV but they certainly help. It's not just about the name either. A good school attracts good staff to learn from and good students who will be in your cohort and help push you further. They also tend to have better and more rigourous courses. Getting an internship is often easier too. There's lots of benefits. Go to the best school you can!

kingsamj · Mar 31, 2017

I got my computer science degree from the University of Minnesota which is a respectable but by no means prestigious university. During school I was very concerned that this would hinder me in my future career but honestly, after the first job you get, no one will ever care what school you went to ever again.

Seriously, your education is going to be one single line at the bottom of your resume. And no one is going to ask you about it.

IMO: don't waste a year (or more) of your time just to get a more prestigious bachelor's degree. Get the degree you're on track to get at your current university, find a job after school to build up some experience, and then after a couple years at your first job you'll be in a good position to seek out other opportunities.

Team Alucard · Mar 31, 2017

While prestige is probably the single most important factor for most white collar fields, it doesn't really matter as much for tech.

Salamando · Mar 31, 2017

Tinfoilhatsron said:
My question is: Should I stay in my current situation or transfer to Tech? Is prestige that important in job interviews and resumes for CS? GA Tech is known for their programming course so would I get a better education there? Also, any tips or advice on making a good resume?

I admit I'm totally ignorant on loads of things and my situation isn't really 'normal'. But I am seeking advice through appointments with my guidance counselor and career advisor. Any advice or criticism would be welcome. Thanks y'all.

Programming is a big field...what in particular are you looking to get into? Graphics, AI, compilers, game design? Look at what your school offers, and what Tech offers, see which will grant you the more relevant experience in your desired field.

For your resume...prestige helps get your foot in the door, but you need to prove you can program to stay there. The intern experience will help, as will a code portfolio. Get a few projects under your belt (either personal or from senior-level classes), save the elegant parts. Be able to explain every bit of it.

dc3k · Mar 31, 2017

Is prestige that important in job interviews and resumes for CS?

I don't even look at peoples resumes before interviewing them and giving my feedback. It might help in getting an interview if your recruiter is a dickhead, but for the most part experience is what matters. Internships, personal projects, etc. I went to school in a different country at a university that 99% of people will never have heard of and have never had a problem getting an interview.

edit; fwiw, all of the recruiter feedback I've read (their initial feedback explaining why they're suggesting an interview) mentions past experience, internships, projects, github, whatever. I don't think I've ever seen them mention "oh and he went to Stanford" or whatever.

Blizzard · Mar 31, 2017

I'm a GT grad, check your PMs.

Fragamemnon · Mar 31, 2017

Are you on the path to successful graduation and are comfortable at KSU? Stay there. Opportunity cost , both in terms of additional time to graduate and due to uncertainty that you will have comparable success at Georgia Tech, is way too high IMO.

IMO the only reason you should transfer is if you feel like graduating at KSU is going to be dicey and you have much more confidence (that's rooted in reason, not excuses) that you'll graduate from GT. There are situations where this could be the case but they would be extremely rare.

Pursue an internship with a company that makes software to sell software or sell services running on software-but not a company that simply builds software to make money doing something else (with some exceptions, don't be a dummy and turn down a place like Jet or Tesla). This will give you perspective and hopefully make you reconsider grad school, because for most people in CS it's just a waste of time right out of college. Go get some experience and a giant pile of cash instead.

Practice interviews and start networking. Talk to people at places you'd like to work after graduation. Find alumni there or just contact hiring managers through LinkedIn and ask questions about their work. See if you can talk to them or someone on their team and get a referral even if its for a different job. Referrals are how people get hired in software.

Sixfortyfive · Mar 31, 2017

No matter which choice you make, I think it's more important to make sure that, by the end of your education, you have some tangible work under your belt to demonstrate to prospective employers. It could include big projects you did for school, internship work, whatever. Just as long as it's something concrete that you can use to demonstrate your skills and knowledge.

In college, I maintained a personal website on the side that I used for some random projects, several of which were database-related (SQL/PHP). It was just a hobbyist thing, like one that was a stat-tracker to log and rank scores or W/Ls between my friends on various video games in various ways or whatever, but it involved coding skills for databases and web front-ends that were relevant for exactly the kind of job that I went into after graduating.

I'm not gonna say that your choice of school doesn't matter, but I mean, an in-state West Virginia school with a basically brand-new engineering department was good enough to get me in the door.

reconsider grad school, because for most people in CS it's just a waste of time right out of college. Go get some experience and a giant pile of cash instead.

Also this.

Another thing to consider: keep your mind open about possible employers once you're actually out there looking for jobs. I remember going to a career fair in my senior year and just brushing past all the booths for retail companies (Best Buy, Target, etc.) because "lol why would I apply for a retail job?" But then once I graduated I ended up doing contractor work for a retail company's point-of-sale / inventory database systems.

capitalCORN · Mar 31, 2017

Booze, sex and drugs. You've got easy access to all of them. Don't waste these precious years.

autumnleaf · Mar 31, 2017

I'm not even sure qualifications are that important when it comes to programming, just prove you have the knowledge and can use it like with a portfolio piece instead and you could probably get an interview. I don't think there are a limited number of ways into the programming industry.

muu · Mar 31, 2017

If you're already at a somewhat respectable college, I doubt going somewhere a little more well known is going to make a huge difference. An internship will be a much bigger deal.

I agree that you should skip masters unless there's something specific you're really interested in pursuing. In a sense you could be narrowing your job prospects.

Hazmat · Mar 31, 2017

In my experience (7+ years experience in software development, CS grad) no one is really going to care where you went to school as long as it was sufficiently good. I don't see either of those schools making a difference and no one will really care outside of internships or your first job. School just gives you the basics, you're going to learn more in your first 6-12 months at a job than you did in 4 years of college.

Blizzard · Mar 31, 2017

muu said:
I agree that you should skip masters unless there's something specific you're really interested in pursuing. In a sense you could be narrowing your job prospects.

I disagree with this part. A Ph.D sure, that can narrow your prospects.

I believe master's degrees are relatively common in engineering, though. I'm not sure about CS. A 2-semester master's degree got me a work title and salary bump that took B.S. people maybe 3 years to earn at the company I went to after college.

rrs · Mar 31, 2017

shoreu said:
KSU is a 4 year school 3rd biggest in the state now iirc and it just merged with a school known for quality technical students

ah, fixed my post

seriously get an internship and don't fuck this up I did

Slo · Mar 31, 2017

Finish your undergrad as soon as you possibly can, get an internship, and apply to Grad School at several more prestigious universities including Georgia Tech.

Slo · Mar 31, 2017

Also, why do you have your heart set on GA Tech? Don't get me wrong, it's a damned fine school with a great reputation, but if you're willing to move across the country for a CS degree I'd strongly consider moving in the direction of Silicon Valley, Seattle, or maybe even Austin, Tx. Supposedly Austin is becoming a new hotbed for startups, but with much lower cost of living than SV. Not to mention that the UT CompSci program is pretty damned strong.

Checkout Startclass for a ranking of best CompSci schools. GATech is right up there, but if I had to do it again I'd put myself in the middle of a startup scene at the beginning of my career.

http://engineering-schools.startclass.com/ <== Filter it by CompSci/Comp Engineering

Mattakuevan · Mar 31, 2017

Knowing your shit is what matters in a software field. Prestige doesnt mean much in my experience.

Do what works.

AbortedWalrusFetus · Mar 31, 2017

Slo said:
Also, why do you have your heart set on GA Tech? Don't get me wrong, it's a damned fine school with a great reputation, but if you're willing to move across the country for a CS degree I'd strongly consider moving in the direction of Silicon Valley, Seattle, or maybe even Austin, Tx. Supposedly Austin is becoming a new hotbed for startups, but with much lower cost of living than SV. Not to mention that the UT CompSci program is pretty damned strong.

Checkout Startclass for a ranking of best CompSci schools. GATech is right up there, but if I had to do it again I'd put myself in the middle of a startup scene at the beginning of my career.

http://engineering-schools.startclass.com/ <== Filter it by CompSci/Comp Engineering

As someone that spent a significant amount of time working in a startup like environment I don't think I'd ever do it again. Big corporate has better hours, pay, and work conditions. Chasing the unicorn is rarely worth it.

Skellig Gra · Mar 31, 2017

Networking/Connections are key. So some sort of internship where you can showcase your skills and get credibility at the end of school.

ascii42 · Mar 31, 2017

If you are planning to do graduate school, where you got your bachelors won't really matter once you get a masters. Transferring to georgia tech now would presumably cost more, and I doubt it would be worth it.

Shadowhelper · Mar 31, 2017

prestige absolutely matters but so do grades and getting a degree. A lot of prestigious engineering schools, really put you through the ringer with how tough their cirroculum. I'd recommend most people not go to the really difficult engineering schools unless they are legit great at math. If the current school is ranked better more prestige, and you are not having any issues with difficulty, stay, otherwise, think carefully. Another school may be more difficult if it is more prestigious.

I know many succesful people who did easier engineering degrees from easier schools. But those people literally would not have been able to get an engineering degree from some of the top 10 rated engineering schools in N. America. Sometimes you're better off going to the worse school, like much better off. No point going to MIT if you're just going to crash out. Go to BU and get a great degree and great job instead. I've seen it happen too many times.

cool_trainer · Mar 31, 2017

I want to add on to everyone else saying experience is most important. Try to find internships and do side projects at home.

jon bones · Mar 31, 2017

CS is one field where the value of the name on the degree doesnt matter too much

know your shit inside and out

nail the interview

have side projects on git showing cleanly written, OOP code that follows SOLID principals

no one will care

thesoapster · Mar 31, 2017

Depends on what you want to do. Computer science gives you many options...

Slo · Mar 31, 2017

AbortedWalrusFetus said:
As someone that spent a significant amount of time working in a startup like environment I don't think I'd ever do it again. Big corporate has better hours, pay, and work conditions. Chasing the unicorn is rarely worth it.

That may be.

As someone who's spent 15 years only in large enterprises, the idea of working exclusively with highly motivated, energetic, and capable people for extremely high stakes seems.....very romantic to me. Reality may not meet my expectations.

BitStyle · Apr 1, 2017

Knowing your stuff and having ample work experience under your belt are key. Take advantage of any internship opportunities you can attain.

Vanillalite · Apr 1, 2017

Slo said:
Also, why do you have your heart set on GA Tech? Don't get me wrong, it's a damned fine school with a great reputation, but if you're willing to move across the country for a CS degree I'd strongly consider moving in the direction of Silicon Valley, Seattle, or maybe even Austin, Tx. Supposedly Austin is becoming a new hotbed for startups, but with much lower cost of living than SV. Not to mention that the UT CompSci program is pretty damned strong.

Checkout Startclass for a ranking of best CompSci schools. GATech is right up there, but if I had to do it again I'd put myself in the middle of a startup scene at the beginning of my career.

http://engineering-schools.startclass.com/ <== Filter it by CompSci/Comp Engineering

Not Kansas State. I assume they mean Kennesaw State.

GT would be staying in state and instate tuition.

Vanillalite · Apr 1, 2017

thesoapster said:
Depends on what you want to do. Computer science gives you many options...

This.

You'll be fine at Kennesaw State for a lot of things.

Other things you might not be. Depends on what you want to do.

Also you need to triple check to make sure just what credits would transfer.

At this point I'd almost tell you to finish out where you are then try and go Tech's online Comp Sci masters program.

Slo · Apr 1, 2017

Vanillalite said:
Not Kansas State. I assume they mean Kennesaw State.

GT would be staying in state and instate tuition.

Well that would explain why he thought we'd all know exactly what school he was talking about by saying "Tech" lol.

OP, if you're in Georgia then ignore my advice. GA Tech is the best CompSci school in your region by far.

Vanillalite · Apr 1, 2017

Slo said:
Well that would explain why he thought we'd all know exactly what school he was talking about by saying "Tech" lol.

OP, if you're in Georgia then ignore my advice. GA Tech is the best CompSci school in your region by far.

He said GA Tech later on, but I'd agree he needed to spell shit out. Too many acronyms that could mean many schools lol.

Laevateinn · Apr 1, 2017

I work for a large financial institution that you've heard of. My employer almost exclusively hires from prestigious universities. You'll be able to find a job at a less prestigious school but if you want to work for a company like mine you'll have to get a good internship and have a very impressive resume to stand out. If Georgia Tech is an option, go for it.

ascii42 · Apr 1, 2017

One thing to consider is the possibility of your employer paying for some or all of your Master's education. I got a job with the Federal Government straight out of undergrad and got my Master's while I was working. So that's another option.

greatestjediever · Apr 1, 2017

If you plan on looking for jobs outside of the state, school probably doesn't matter that much since most people don't know how to gauge the quality of the CS program of that school. Experience (either internship or an independent portfolio of personal work) will likely give a team a better feel of your skill set.

That said if you're going to GT, it does seem there's a decent tech sector there. I know Equifax HQ is based out of Alpharetta and they always seem to be hiring.

Laevateinn · Apr 1, 2017

ascii42 said:
One thing to consider is the possibility of your employer paying for some or all of your Master's education. I got a job with the Federal Government straight out of undergrad and got my Master's while I was working. So that's another option.

This is important too.

A lot of engineering graduate programs offer fellowships and assistantships but having your employer pay for a masters degree if academia isn't in your future is a better idea in my opinion. My employer also pays a limited amount of support towards an MS. Going to graduate school this way will let you take it slow and allow you to not live like a graduate student.

Source: I got a PhD and decided I didn't want to do academia.

Also: there's no guarantee that Georgia Tech will accept you into their graduate program. My top school choice was UW because it was local but I ended up at Penn State because UW didn't accept me. You might have a better chance if you go there for undergrad.

BriareosGAF · Apr 1, 2017

Almost 20 years in the games industry, senior technical director.

You should attend whichever school allows you to do more interesting things: research projects (I did genetic algorithms with an econ professor), minors of interest to you (mine is in philosophy), attend lectures and readings, etc. A good university education is not work training alone. Consider switching majors to mathematics, since almost all of the truly interesting problems in computer science are essentially problems in mathematics, and computer science per se is largely straightforward. Take interesting internships in other parts of the country. Do fun side projects (I wrote Quake 2 model viewers and other weird crap) and *finish them*.

Stumpokapow · Apr 1, 2017

Planning for the future is good, but horse-cart reversal is not. From what I can tell you are 2/3rds of a year into a 4 year program that you think will lead to a two year grad program and you are worried about what your employer will think of your resume after that point.

I think what you should do is work hard to do well in your classes, keep up your morale, and look at what courses you would be taking in 2017-2018 under each possible scenario, then talk to professors at your current university to see whether you would gain a benefit from transferring at this juncture.

Tinfoilhatsron · Apr 1, 2017

Thanks for the responses everyone! I just got home and settled. I'm also replying to PMs too! Also yeah I should specify I'm in GA.

kingsamj said:
I got my computer science degree from the University of Minnesota which is a respectable but by no means prestigious university. During school I was very concerned that this would hinder me in my future career but honestly, after the first job you get, no one will ever care what school you went to ever again.

Seriously, your education is going to be one single line at the bottom of your resume. And no one is going to ask you about it.

IMO: don't waste a year (or more) of your time just to get a more prestigious bachelor's degree. Get the degree you're on track to get at your current university, find a job after school to build up some experience, and then after a couple years at your first job you'll be in a good position to seek out other opportunities.

Oh man I feel like I'm in the boat you were at that point. I'm feeling torn but I know internships and real job experiences are most important.

Team Alucard said:
While prestige is probably the single most important factor for most white collar fields, it doesn't really matter as much for tech.

That's taking a bit off my shoulders.

Salamando said:
Programming is a big field...what in particular are you looking to get into? Graphics, AI, compilers, game design? Look at what your school offers, and what Tech offers, see which will grant you the more relevant experience in your desired field.

For your resume...prestige helps get your foot in the door, but you need to prove you can program to stay there. The intern experience will help, as will a code portfolio. Get a few projects under your belt (either personal or from senior-level classes), save the elegant parts. Be able to explain every bit of it.

I'm trying to find my footing. I was thinking about doing security because that was something I'm honestly interested in. At the same time, I want to work on actually building something that will affect the future like AI. That'd be pretty awesome. Pretty naive of me though... Set up an appointment with a career counsoler though.

dc3k said:
I don't even look at peoples resumes before interviewing them and giving my feedback. It might help in getting an interview if your recruiter is a dickhead, but for the most part experience is what matters. Internships, personal projects, etc. I went to school in a different country at a university that 99% of people will never have heard of and have never had a problem getting an interview.

edit; fwiw, all of the recruiter feedback I've read (their initial feedback explaining why they're suggesting an interview) mentions past experience, internships, projects, github, whatever. I don't think I've ever seen them mention "oh and he went to Stanford" or whatever.

Specifically on projects what do you guys recommend? I'm currently working on a calculator and an adventure game (trying to wrap my mind around OOP and incorporate it)

Fragamemnon said:
Are you on the path to successful graduation and are comfortable at KSU? Stay there. Opportunity cost , both in terms of additional time to graduate and due to uncertainty that you will have comparable success at Georgia Tech, is way too high IMO.

IMO the only reason you should transfer is if you feel like graduating at KSU is going to be dicey and you have much more confidence (that's rooted in reason, not excuses) that you'll graduate from GT. There are situations where this could be the case but they would be extremely rare.

Pursue an internship with a company that makes software to sell software or sell services running on software-but not a company that simply builds software to make money doing something else (with some exceptions, don't be a dummy and turn down a place like Jet or Tesla). This will give you perspective and hopefully make you reconsider grad school, because for most people in CS it's just a waste of time right out of college. Go get some experience and a giant pile of cash instead.

Practice interviews and start networking. Talk to people at places you'd like to work after graduation. Find alumni there or just contact hiring managers through LinkedIn and ask questions about their work. See if you can talk to them or someone on their team and get a referral even if its for a different job. Referrals are how people get hired in software.

Wow that's amazing advice. I'm going to start during the summer, right after exams.

Sixfortyfive said:
No matter which choice you make, I think it's more important to make sure that, by the end of your education, you have some tangible work under your belt to demonstrate to prospective employers. It could include big projects you did for school, internship work, whatever. Just as long as it's something concrete that you can use to demonstrate your skills and knowledge.

In college, I maintained a personal website on the side that I used for some random projects, several of which were database-related (SQL/PHP). It was just a hobbyist thing, like one that was a stat-tracker to log and rank scores or W/Ls between my friends on various video games in various ways or whatever, but it involved coding skills for databases and web front-ends that were relevant for exactly the kind of job that I went into after graduating.

I'm not gonna say that your choice of school doesn't matter, but I mean, an in-state West Virginia school with a basically brand-new engineering department was good enough to get me in the door.

Also this.

Another thing to consider: keep your mind open about possible employers once you're actually out there looking for jobs. I remember going to a career fair in my senior year and just brushing past all the booths for retail companies (Best Buy, Target, etc.) because "lol why would I apply for a retail job?" But then once I graduated I ended up doing contractor work for a retail company's point-of-sale / inventory database systems.

That's some great advice too! Do you have any GitHub pages or links to start on that? I only know basic C++ for Web Design right now.

muu said:
If you're already at a somewhat respectable college, I doubt going somewhere a little more well known is going to make a huge difference. An internship will be a much bigger deal.

I agree that you should skip masters unless there's something specific you're really interested in pursuing. In a sense you could be narrowing your job prospects.

Hazmat said:
In my experience (7+ years experience in software development, CS grad) no one is really going to care where you went to school as long as it was sufficiently good. I don't see either of those schools making a difference and no one will really care outside of internships or your first job. School just gives you the basics, you're going to learn more in your first 6-12 months at a job than you did in 4 years of college.

Slo said:
Also, why do you have your heart set on GA Tech? Don't get me wrong, it's a damned fine school with a great reputation, but if you're willing to move across the country for a CS degree I'd strongly consider moving in the direction of Silicon Valley, Seattle, or maybe even Austin, Tx. Supposedly Austin is becoming a new hotbed for startups, but with much lower cost of living than SV. Not to mention that the UT CompSci program is pretty damned strong.

Checkout Startclass for a ranking of best CompSci schools. GATech is right up there, but if I had to do it again I'd put myself in the middle of a startup scene at the beginning of my career.

http://engineering-schools.startclass.com/ <== Filter it by CompSci/Comp Engineering

I'm trying to get into GA Tech because of my current situation. I'm living at home and require assisted care so it's bad for me to try and move atm. I'm trying to work with my doctors to try independent living so I have the ability to move. I can drive to the Marietta campus easily and can probably drive to Atlanta for Tech.

jon bones said:
CS is one field where the value of the name on the degree doesnt matter too much

know your shit inside and out

nail the interview

have side projects on git showing cleanly written, OOP code that follows SOLID principals

no one will care

Would you happen to have any links to books or articles on understanding OOP more properly?

BriareosGAF said:
Almost 20 years in the games industry, senior technical director.

You should attend whichever school allows you to do more interesting things: research projects (I did genetic algorithms with an econ professor), minors of interest to you (mine is in philosophy), attend lectures and readings, etc. A good university education is not work training alone. Consider switching majors to mathematics, since almost all of the truly interesting problems in computer science are essentially problems in mathematics, and computer science per se is largely straightforward. Take interesting internships in other parts of the country. Do fun side projects (I wrote Quake 2 model viewers and other weird crap) and *finish them*.

Cool. I do enjoy the Discrete Mathematics course I'm taking right now. It's enjoyable but I'd love to program and work on my laptop.

Stumpokapow said:
Planning for the future is good, but horse-cart reversal is not. From what I can tell you are 2/3rds of a year into a 4 year program that you think will lead to a two year grad program and you are worried about what your employer will think of your resume after that point.

I think what you should do is work hard to do well in your classes, keep up your morale, and look at what courses you would be taking in 2017-2018 under each possible scenario, then talk to professors at your current university to see whether you would gain a benefit from transferring at this juncture.

Yup, I'm trying to talk to my professors and gauging what I should be doing. I'm at a crossroads right now.

Somnid · Apr 1, 2017

CS degrees aren't super important. You can make 100K without a degree as long as you have skills. Larger companies will require them though, typically they look for CS but any engineering or math heavy one is just as good, you don't need CS specifically.

Renekton · Apr 1, 2017

Real work Experience and personal portfolio seem to be fair more important than a CS degree. I didn't get much out of my degree despite school being in top 30 and good CGPA.

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