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[Shiggy]

Apple, complying with what it said was a request from Chinese authorities, removed news apps created by The New York Times from its app store in China late last month.

The move limits access to one of the few remaining channels for readers in mainland China to read The Times without resorting to special software. The government began blocking The Times’s websites in 2012, after a series of articles on the wealth amassed by the family of Wen Jiabao, who was then prime minister, but it had struggled in recent months to prevent readers from using the Chinese-language app.

Apple removed both the English-language and Chinese-language apps from the app store in China on Dec. 23. Apps from other international publications, including The Financial Times and The Wall Street Journal, were still available in the app store.

“The request by the Chinese authorities to remove our apps is part of their wider attempt to prevent readers in China from accessing independent news coverage by The New York Times of that country, coverage which is no different from the journalism we do about every other country in the world,” Ms. Murphy said in a statement.

Farzana Aslam, associate director of the Center for Comparative and Public Law at the University of Hong Kong, noted that in matters involving customer privacy, Apple requires governments to submit subpoenas, search warrants or other legal documents.

“Maybe in the end they have to do it, but I think there’s something to be said about standing up for what you believe in and purporting to put principle before profit in a country like China, to show that actually there is this tension there,” Ms. Aslam said. “It’s not as simple as, ‘Because we operate in your jurisdiction, we’ll do anything you ask of us.’”

She added that it was “very worrying” that Apple had not disclosed what laws the authorities said were violated, making it difficult for The Times and other publishers to file an appeal or challenge the government’s requests.

In the weeks leading up to the withdrawal of the Times apps, The Times was working on various articles related to the Chinese government. One of them, posted online on Dec. 29, revealed the billions of dollars in hidden perks and subsidies that the Chinese government provides to the world’s biggest iPhone factory. China is also one of Apple’s largest iPhone markets, though sales in that region have slowed.

On Dec. 23, David Barboza, a Times reporter, spoke with members of Apple’s media team about the article. Mr. Barboza had previously been in touch with the iPhone factory owner, Foxconn. He had also contacted the Chinese government as part of his reporting.

Later that day, a separate team from Apple informed The Times that the apps would be removed, Ms. Murphy said.

http://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/04/business/media/new-york-times-apps-apple-china.html?_r=0


Nobody expected anything different from a Silicon Valley company. But interesting to see that the app got only removed now despite the NYT website being blocked since 2012.

 

[Charles Brandon]

Can you get the Guardian over there?

 

[Chaos2Frozen]

I wonder what changed

 

[theguy]

Can you get the Guardian over there?

Oy vey!

 

[always crazy bacon]

Can you get the Guardian over there?

Unlikely.

 

[Mindwipe]

But hey, having a single app store that's the only source of software on the most mainstream piece of hardware in the world is definitely not corrosive to human rights!

 

[More Fun To Compute]

In China the BBC is fake news.

 

[numble]

Can you get the Guardian over there?

Unlikely.

The Guardian app is available on the Chinese App Store and the website is not blocked in China.

 

[Shiggy]

Unlikely.

I can access their website without issues. Then again, sometimes I can use Google for no good reason despite not using a VPN.

 

[sazzy]

China's Global Times published an editorial on this issue.

Basically, it says,"Fuck off New York Times!"

http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1027386.shtml

 

[Maximus.]

But hey, having a single app store that's the only source of software on the most mainstream piece of hardware in the world is definitely not corrosive to human rights!

That's not the problem.

 

[Khoryos]

That's not the problem.

I mean, it's A problem.

 

[Randy Monk]

Thanks Rupert.

 

[DOWN]

But hey, having a single app store that's the only source of software on the most mainstream piece of hardware in the world is definitely not corrosive to human rights!

This has zero to do with your post

 

[Mindwipe]

That's not the problem.

Yes, it actually very explicitly is.

Not least because the locked down nature of iOS means it's impossible to install a VPN client that is capable of bypassing the great firewall to access external unapproved sites.

You lock down your platform, you enable censorship by despotic regimes. It's that simple. It's always that simple.

 

[Garrett Hawke]

Yes, it actually very explicitly is.

Not least because the locked down nature of iOS means it's impossible to install a VPN client that is capable of bypassing the great firewall to access external unapproved sites.

You lock down your platform, you enable censorship by despotic regimes. It's that simple. It's always that simple.

lol you can use vpns on ios

 

[ultratruman]

Funny how Apple were so righteous about not letting the FBI into that terrorist's iPhone, yet they'll do whatever the Chinese government wants.

It's almost like they're a soulless corporation that only cares about money and pr.

 

[PaleFolklore]

China's Global Times published an editorial on this issue.

Basically, it says,"Fuck off New York Times!"

What a load of horseshit

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

This is always a ridiculous story. What is apple supposed to do pull their entire business out of china over a NYT app? lol.

A significant portion of their entire business is there and they have lots of investment in that country. It sucks that the chinese government want it gone though.

 

[jblank83]

So many logical fallacies it hurts.

Complete garbage.

 

[Talon]

NYtimes.com has been banned for years - at least three years. Surprised the iOS app had still been accessible.

 

[-Plasma Reus-]

Helps drive the narrative they need that America is out to get China now that Trump is in office.

 

[dramatis]

China's Global Times published an editorial on this issue.

Basically, it says,"Fuck off New York Times!"

http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1027386.shtml

They say that, but that's because China's more educated population actually values publications like the NYT.

For instance, during the US general election there were Chinese memes perpetuated on WeChat in China that slandered Hillary. Oftentimes these Chinese memes would attach articles and headlines by NYT to try lending legitimacy to the message they wanted to promote.

So I guess it's dangerous to have a foreign newspaper be seen as a more valid journalistic authority than home country publications.

 

[Kusagari]

Guess Trump was right about the failing NY Times!

 

[TheSeks]

That's not the problem.

It's definitely a problem, though. Unless Chinese users "jailbreak"/hack their device, the applications for iPhone are through and ONLY through the iPhone app store. Which means when Apple removes something in that region, they have no means of getting it unless they hack their device to go to another region and/or install the application via other methods.

 

[Madness]

That's surprising.

The NYT being blocked is really a shame, because it's a great site. Wonder if Breitbart is blocked.

But-but-but America is declining and the Chinese government is oh so great.

China's Global Times published an editorial on this issue.

Basically, it says,"Fuck off New York Times!"

http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1027386.shtml

The delusion of the CPC and their propaganda is second only to North Korea right now. And the sad part is people buy it bevause if you repeat it enough people start to believe it.

 

[99Luffy]

China is learning from the US. Cant have foreigners influencing your politics.

 

[jstripes]

Funny how Apple were so righteous about not letting the FBI into that terrorist's iPhone, yet they'll do whatever the Chinese government wants.

It's almost like they're a soulless corporation that only cares about money and pr.

Ya, those two aren't really compatible. One of them sets a precedent for governments to get into any iPhone they chose, the other one is removal of an app.

 

[chillybright]

A few things.

China has been doing "anti-propaganda" ever since the beginning. The control has become tighter since Xi came to power, but this is really hardly surprising.

Also you can have access to NYT through browsers in China no problem, along with WSJ. This just discourages new readers finding these sources from Appstore.

Apple has being sucking CCP's dick ever since they entered China, and even more so after they saw what happened to Google when they refused to cooperate.

Lastly, no point in citing Global Times. That outlet is notorious for it's blind nationalism and propaganda. Nobody in China reads it. The only reason it exists is because state sponsorship.

 

[Mindwipe]

lol you can use vpns on ios

Yes, but those VPNs are blocked by the great firewall using deep packet inspection and protocol blocking.

In order to get a VPN to work though the great wall you have to use a custom protocol stack and obfuscation on the packets.

As iOS does not permit modification of the networking stack, you cannot make these changes and hence a VPN won't work on the device.

This is always a ridiculous story. What is apple supposed to do pull their entire business out of china over a NYT app? lol.

A significant portion of their entire business is there and they have lots of investment in that country. It sucks that the chinese government want it gone though.

No, they're supposed to enable sideloading.

 

[jstripes]

No, they're supposed to enable sideloading.

And torpedo their entire business model?

 

[VoxPop]

Yes, but those VPNs are blocked by the great firewall using deep packet inspection and protocol blocking.

In order to get a VPN to work though the great wall you have to use a custom protocol stack and obfuscation on the packets.

As iOS does not permit modification of the networking stack, you cannot make these changes and hence a VPN won't work on the device.



No, they're supposed to enable sideloading.

Lmao you Android fanboys are something else

 

[uncelestial]

Apple should stand up to them. "Hey China, got your request. Also have been talking to Mexico about how much they'd love our manufacturing business. Well, think on it. Bye!"

 

[jstripes]

Apple should stand up to them. "Hey China, got your request. Also have been talking to Mexico about how much they'd love our manufacturing business. Well, think on it. Bye!"

They don't just make iPhones in China, they sell them too. A whole ton of them. iPhones are a status symbol there.

 

[Mindwipe]

Lmao you Android fanboys are something else

Lol. I queued up around the block on release day for the first iPhone. I'm typing this on one of the three Macs I have in my front room.

It doesn't change the fact that closed app ecosystems are inherently harmful things. Always. It's bad when Apple does them. It's bad when Google and Microsoft do them, but neither of those are as relentlessly destructive as Apple's.

And torpedo their entire business model?

Apple's business model is selling hardware. Software is a rounding error to Apple.

 

[Somnid]

Safari supporting service workers, app manifest and WebRTC like all other modern browsers would do wonders to help mitigate these types of problems through a combination of Progressive Web Apps and things like Webtorrent.

 

[Garrett Hawke]

Apple's business model is selling hardware. Software is a rounding error to Apple.

not really at all. their revenue from the app store in 2016 was at least $8b.

 

[jediyoshi]

Funny how Apple were so righteous about not letting the FBI into that terrorist's iPhone, yet they'll do whatever the Chinese government wants.

It's almost like they're a soulless corporation that only cares about money and pr.

But to clarify, you are saying you'd be happier if they'd done both?

 

[Mindwipe]

not really at all. their revenue from the app store in 2016 was at least $8b.

Their revenue from hardware was orders of magnitude higher, with very, very significantly better margins. Software is a rounding error to Apple, and will always be so.

 

[Garrett Hawke]

Their revenue from hardware was orders of magnitude higher, with very, very significantly better margins. Software is a rounding error to Apple, and will always be so.

While there is less disclosure on Services revenue, management stated that overall Services revs were up 24% and App Store revenue was up 43% y/y. Putting the App Store rev into context: on a gross basis, we believe App Store revenue was about $7.8 billion in the quarter and about $28 billion for the fiscal year. In other words, on a gross basis, App Store sales were 22% bigger than Mac sales for the year and 35% larger than iPad sales for the year. We believe that the Services line accounted for 27% of gross margin in the quarter and 21% for the fiscal year. As the App Store continues to be the fastest-growing and highest-margin significant business for Apple, we think investors will focus more on its value and long-term sustainability.

http://www.zdnet.com/article/apples...ps-28-billion-mark-developers-net-20-billion/

 

[jstripes]

Apple's business model is selling hardware. Software is a rounding error to Apple.

The software is part of the ecosystem that keeps people locked in, and the App Store is central to that.

Sideloading will have three effects:

1) Piracy. Lots of it.
2) Devs may migrate to third party stores, for a variety of reasons.
3) Third party stores will be full of software of dubious quality and security.

So no, it's not gonna happen.

 

[jts]

Their revenue from hardware was orders of magnitude higher, with very, very significantly better margins. Software is a rounding error to Apple, and will always be so.

Software drives their hardware sales, though. Always have.

 

[numble]

It's definitely a problem, though. Unless Chinese users "jailbreak"/hack their device, the applications for iPhone are through and ONLY through the iPhone app store. Which means when Apple removes something in that region, they have no means of getting it unless they hack their device to go to another region and/or install the application via other methods.

I live in China--I don't need to "hack" my device to go to another region. I just sign into the US App Store via my US account.

Yes, it actually very explicitly is.

Not least because the locked down nature of iOS means it's impossible to install a VPN client that is capable of bypassing the great firewall to access external unapproved sites.

You lock down your platform, you enable censorship by despotic regimes. It's that simple. It's always that simple.

Yes, but those VPNs are blocked by the great firewall using deep packet inspection and protocol blocking.

In order to get a VPN to work though the great wall you have to use a custom protocol stack and obfuscation on the packets.

As iOS does not permit modification of the networking stack, you cannot make these changes and hence a VPN won't work on the device.



No, they're supposed to enable sideloading.

Lol. I queued up around the block on release day for the first iPhone. I'm typing this on one of the three Macs I have in my front room.

It doesn't change the fact that closed app ecosystems are inherently harmful things. Always. It's bad when Apple does them. It's bad when Google and Microsoft do them, but neither of those are as relentlessly destructive as Apple's.

What? I am in China and I use VPNs on iOS everyday. It is actually easier to get VPNs than on a computer because the websites that offer VPNs are blocked, while the App Store (including the Chinese App Store) allows you to download and install VPN apps.

I am not sure what you mean by iOS does not permit modification to the networking stack--there are definitely VPN apps that use protocols that aren't the regular VPN protocols supported on iOS.

iOS has the NETunnelProvider class, which allows the use of a custom network tunneling protocol: https://developer.apple.com/reference/networkextension

The major VPNs provide their own apps, but I still use one that just connects using iOS's native support (just flick it on in settings). There is an OpenVPN client app that smaller VPN providers use as a baseline, which supports using different customized profiles and ciphers: https://docs.openvpn.net/docs/openvpn-connect/openvpn-connect-ios-faq.html

I don't see how relentlessly destructive Apple is by cooperating with the government. By being cooperative, they have enabled Chinese to access apps with content that is normally blocked (and even if it is blocked on the China App Store, you can still sign in to the Hong Kong or US/UK App Store to get it). Google and the Play Store have been completely blocked for a generation, leaving no mainstream way to access content that is normally blocked from Chinese providers.

 

[ultratruman]

But to clarify, you are saying you'd be happier if they'd done both?

It wouldn't affect me personally either way, I am just pointing out the time Apple cynically sought to gain the public perception of being an advocate for civil rights with that iphone password debacle, and how obviously hollow any gesture towards humanitarianism from a corporation should be seen.