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[Jackpot]

Today we had a press conference to disclose how far we'd gotten with the first (third?) round of talks.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...brexit-talks-are-far-from-sufficient-progress

Brexit Talks End in Acrimony Amid Stalemate Over Bill

Brexit talks ended in stalemate, with both sides deadlocked over the divorce bill and tensions spilling over as the European Union's negotiator mocked Prime Minister Theresa May.

Michel Barnier said Britain is refusing to acknowledge its financial obligations and wants a deal that's impossible to achieve. In the coded language of the EU, the ”sufficient progress" needed to move on to trade talks hasn't been made.

The pound weakened to its lowest in a week as the failure of the talks increases the chances of the U.K. tumbling out of the EU without a deal in 2019. The acrimony was clear as Barnier cited May's oft-repeated and much derided slogans to make the point that the U.K. cannot have it all.

Barnier also slammed the U.K. for wanting it both ways, seeking to ”take back control" and set its own rules but also have those standards and regulations recognized automatically in the EU. ”This is simply impossible," he said.

Davis had a different view, saying the talks were a ”stepping stone" to future rounds. Both sides agreed that talks on the Irish border were ”fruitful" in a rare sign of agreement. On the bill, he said obligations ”have to be specified, have to be real." Still, he left the door open for ”moral obligations" too.

The third round of talks started with public displays of frustration on both sides and quickly deteriorated. The U.K. accused Barnier of being too rigid and continued to butt against the agreed schedule for talks -- first the divorce and then the future relationship. The U.K. argues that the thorniest issues will be easier to resolve once the future relationship is clearer.

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...lection-says-former-party-chair-politics-live

That was easily the most awkward and inauspicious press conference we've had in the Brexit talks process so far. It was not bad-tempered, but it left the impression that the gulf between the two sides is getting wider, not narrower. What was perhaps most telling was that David Davis and Michel Barnier could not even agree on how things were going. Davis presented a relatively upbeat, ”business-as-usual" take on what has been going on. But Barnier, in a measured but faintly menacing manner, suggested that the UK was still living in la-la land. It had not fully accepted the implications of leaving the single market and that what it was demanding was ”impossible", he said.

Oh, and today William Hague (former Tory leader) blamed the voters for it.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...c-mistake-theresa-may-successor-a7920891.html

The former foreign and Conservative leader, who has been brought back as an advisor to the government, told Radio 5Live's Emma Barnett: "I don't think calling the election was a mistake. I think the result was a mistake. Collectively, by the people of this country. And I think there was a pretty poor Conservative campaign.

"They (the EU) know that the result of the British election weakened the British government's negotiating position. It absolutely did.

"Of course she's not in anything like as strong a position as if she'd won a majority of 60 or 100 or whatever it might have been in the House of Commons.

"So Britain will get a worse deal as a result of the election. I think there is no question about that. And of course we can't blame the voters for how they vote."

 

[Nekketsu Kõha]

Can still cancel the whole Brexit. Just do it. No one is gonna take to the streets and riot or anything ffs.

 

[liquidtmd]

I think the result was a mistake. Collectively, by the people of this country. And I think there was a pretty poor Conservative campaign.

I think there is no question about that. And of course we can't blame the voters for how they vote."

Lol

 

[BoogieWoogie]

The UK has no fucking leverage here. What are they thinking?

 

[PdotMichael]

Well, to be fair the UK acts so headless as the population when the voted for Brexit.

 

[Auctopus]

The UK has no fucking leverage here. What are they thinking?

We're not.

 

[baxter2231]

Can still cancel the whole Brexit. Just do it. No one is gonna take to the streets and riot or anything ffs.

Have a re-vote maybe, but if it wins again...

 

[Amalthea]

The UK has no fucking leverage here. What are they thinking?

"Bu-bu-bu we're the British EMPIRE!"

 

[Xando]

This was always gonna happen.

Tory communication shifted back to hard brexit this past week and is more interested in looking for confrontation with the EU than making well thought out proposals.

 

[UpDownLeftRight]

Can still cancel the whole Brexit. Just do it. No one is gonna take to the streets and riot or anything ffs.

They'd rather fuck the country all together and deal with people taking to the streets then for some reason. Something about it still being the 1700's and we've all got our timelines wrong.

 

[Kareha]

Thanks to the idiots for fucking up my country, bravo /slowhandclap.

 

[danowat]

Things are looking pretty good .gif

 

[PdotMichael]

Have a re-vote maybe, but if it wins again...

The joke is that article 50 doesn't have any part about canceling the exit process. UK can only rejoin the EU through article 49 like other new countries.

 

[Za-Neen-Jya]

"I only divorced her over text and took the dog, why is she being so unreasonable about this?"

 

[bionic77]

We're not.

And yet you still seem smarter than the US...

 

[RangerX]

As an Irishman it seems Britain is living in complete fantasy land when it comes to the border here. They say they want to maintain the status quo but that involves at least staying in the customs union. There is no way the EU is going to allow a porous border but British diplomats are really not grasping the reality of the situation. The Irish government will absolutely veto any hard border that will damage trade and affect the Good Friday agreement as they should. We didn't vote for this.

 

[SoundofSilence]

"Bu-bu-bu we're the British EMPIRE!"

This is the heart of the problem, in a nutshell. Giant swathes of the UK, particularly old codgers and pensioners, have an astoundingly distorted view of the UK's place and influence in the world. They're trapped in another age, raging against clouds and children.

 

[Bitch Pudding]

"And of course we can't blame the voters for how they vote."

Of course you can. I blame Americans all day long for electing an imbecile as president.

 

[Aki-at]

I am physically disgusted by this shambles and how the future generations are going to have to deal with this mess.

 

[Uzzy]

The UK has no fucking leverage here. What are they thinking?

That blaming the EU for the collapse of the talks, and everything bad that happens after, is politically easier than making the compromises needed to come to a successful agreement.

 

[danowat]

As an Irishman it seems Britain is living in complete fantasy land when it comes to the border here. They say they want to maintain the status quo but that involves at least staying in the customs union. There is no way the EU is going to allow a porous border but British diplomats are really not grasping the reality of the situation. The Irish government will absolutely veto any hard border that will damage trade and affect the Good Friday agreement as they should. We didn't vote for this.

It's not just the border, it's the whole thing, everything, the whole kit and caboodle, Britain is a complete fantasy land at the moment.

If I hear one more person say "it's the will of the people, we need to come together and make the best of it" I swear I am gonna...........

 

[Stumpokapow]

Can still cancel the whole Brexit. Just do it. No one is gonna take to the streets and riot or anything ffs.

It's not obvious that you can without unanimous consent of the other EU countries. And maybe their stance would be "Brexit is bad and we don't want it so let's agree to forget this ever happened" or maybe their stance would be "Brexit is bad, but we need to send a message that you can't do this to us." And it only takes one country to pick the latter to make it impossible to cancel the whole deal.

 

[Dirtyshubb]

The UK has no fucking leverage here. What are they thinking?

"Bu-bu-bu we're the British EMPIRE!"

Exactly this!

We are taught that we are GREAT Britain, not average Britain. We ruled the world and are one of the biggest, most important super duper countries around.

To try and suggest otherwise is against Britain.

Spoiler

fuck patriotism, fuck the Tories and fuck half of this moronic island

 

[snausagesUK]

Speaking to my uncle recently he seemed to express a bit of regret over his vote. Not the principle of the 'why' for his vote (immigration) but the outcome of the negotiations has him disappointed and he reckoned a re-vote would go to remain.

But what a re-vote would do for public faith in our democratic institutions is another question.

 

[Principate]

That blaming the EU for the collapse of the talks, and everything bad that happens after, is politically easier than making the compromises needed to come to a successful agreement.

Which would have been easier if they had full public support. They don't so chances of backlash is high which is why you tory ministers coming out and saying the election was a mistake trying to lay the blame at the publics door because they don't have a strong mandate.

 

[axisofweevils]

Expected as much
I've been waiting for any concrete positive, any positive at all. Over a year later, I still haven't found a single one.

 

[Principate]

Expected as much
I've been waiting for any concrete positive, any positive at all. Over a year later, I still haven't found a single one.

In the words of Lord bucket it was always going to be a "shitshow". There was absolutely no other way this was ever going to go.

 

[Sodding_Gamer]

Legit feel embarrassed to be British. Such a fuck up. I know America doesn't look too hot right now but fuck me the UK is absolutely wankered.

 

[Phrozenflame500]

 

[Dirtyshubb]

Speaking to my uncle recently he seemed to express a bit of regret over his vote. Not the principle of the 'why' for his vote (immigration) but the outcome of the negotiations has him disappointed and he reckoned a re-vote would go to remain.

But what a re-vote would do for public faith in our democratic institutions is another question.

What really would happen? I see this sentiment all the time yet what exactly would leavers do if the government came out and said "we cant get a better deal than we already have, new evidence shows this will ruin us as a country and all the things we said we want rid of we realised we actually need them so we are staying in the EU"?

People aren't taking to the streets, not in any severe way that would ruin the countries faith in democracy.

Not like people have much faith in UK politics as it is, only sign of hope is Corbyn and a reverse on brexit would probably help him.

 

[Mung]

We've fucked ourselves

 

[D4Danger]

What really would happen? I see this sentiment all the time yet what exactly would leavers do if the government came out and said "we cant get a better deal than we already have, new evidence shows this will ruin us as a country and all the things we said we want rid of we realised we actually need them so we are staying in the EU"?

People aren't taking to the streets, not in any severe way that would ruin the countries faith in democracy.

what would happen is the next time we have a general election we would end up with the most right-wing mental conservative government imaginable. It's what would've happened this time if Labour hadn't neutralized the argument early on and let people focus on other things. If it would been a rerun of the brexit vote we'd be looking at that 400 seat con majority.

And William Hague can fuck right off blaming voters. I saw this a lot after the ge where cons were blaming Labour voters for messing up brexit because they didn't get their majority. It has no affect on their ability to negotiate for a sensible brexit. They just can't just can't use suicide as an option any more because they won't get backing. Labour have already backed a transitional period after brexit which bolsters the other side of the con party who aren't complete nutters.

 

[shnurgleton]

Who would have thought that extricating ones country from the most complicated international political and trade organization ever conceived would be so hard

 

[Widdle Puppy]

Revote to cancel it. Do it for fuck sake. Better to weaken your institution and build back their faith than to go through with this and suffer the much greater consequences.

 

[Vagabundo]

Let things drag along the bottom for a few months. Eventually May will be ousted, the writing is on the wall and the government will probably collapse. Corbyn will win and they will try and reset the negotiations with some sort of single market access/customs union thing with slightly reduced immigration or something - probably the same deal repackaged that cameron got. And everyone will wonder at what was the fucking point.

 

[Weckum]

Things are looking pretty good .gif

Came here expecting this, was not disappointed.

 

[liquidtmd]

I voted Remain.

I very reluctantly said 'fine, get on with it. No second referendum'.

After seeing the absolute insane approach of the Government in relation to negotiating though....this madness HAS to be stopped.

It's insanity

 

[Linkstrikesback]

Revote to cancel it. Do it for fuck sake. Better to weaken your institution and build back their faith than to go through with this and suffer the much greater consequences.

You have more faith than I do that it wouldn't go even strongly towards leave.

Let things drag along the bottom for a few months. Eventually May will be ousted, the writing is on the wall and the government will probably collapse. Corbyn will win and they will try and reset the negotiations with some sort of single market access/customs union thing with slightly reduced immigration or something - probably the same deal repackaged that cameron got. And everyone will wonder at what was the fucking point.

I'm very sure the Tory plan is to deliberately oust May a few months before the next election is due when Brexit is clearly the unavoidable shitshow it always obviously was and we're long out of the EU.
They will then position the replacement as someone who was against Mays policies and blame her for as much as they can, and the new Tory leader will be ready to fix her mistakes.

 

[QuantumZebra]

Speaking to my uncle recently he seemed to express a bit of regret over his vote. Not the principle of the 'why' for his vote (immigration) but the outcome of the negotiations has him disappointed and he reckoned a re-vote would go to remain.

But what a re-vote would do for public faith in our democratic institutions is another question.

As an American, this isn't true.

We have done take-backsies on like half our legislation through the years. All for good reasons, of course (Women's suffrage, slavery, Jim Crowe, drug war to an extent, etc.).

Democracy isn't perfect and the will of the people should be reflected and refreshed when new evidence comes to light, IMO. Brexit shouldn't be the rule just cause of one ill-timed vote.

But it's yalls island, have fun w/ that

 

[Brawly Likes to Brawl]

Still can't believe this referendum didn't require a super-majority. I feel sick over the election, but at least it's something that can be overcome.

 

[danowat]

Revote to cancel it. Do it for fuck sake. Better to weaken your institution and build back their faith than to go through with this and suffer the much greater consequences.

Outside of the 'bubble', there are a heck of a lot of people who still want Brexit.

 

[Widdle Puppy]

It's not obvious that you can without unanimous consent of the other EU countries. And maybe their stance would be "Brexit is bad and we don't want it so let's agree to forget this ever happened" or maybe their stance would be "Brexit is bad, but we need to send a message that you can't do this to us." And it only takes one country to pick the latter to make it impossible to cancel the whole deal.

When you put it this way I say kick them out. Time to sleep in the bed they shat in.

 

[Peccavi]

At first I thought he was talking about the Referendum, not the most recent election.

 

[Nekketsu Kõha]

Have a re-vote maybe, but if it wins again...

No vote just do it.

In Sweden we had a vote on what side of the road we drive on. Left side won but in the end we went right because it was correct the decision. These votes are not even binding it isnt Switzerland. Just "guiding."

They'd rather fuck the country all together and deal with people taking to the streets then for some reason. Something about it still being the 1700's and we've all got our timelines wrong.

Some dumbass recently made captain on the Enterprise M is fucking everything up.

It's not obvious that you can without unanimous consent of the other EU countries. And maybe their stance would be "Brexit is bad and we don't want it so let's agree to forget this ever happened" or maybe their stance would be "Brexit is bad, but we need to send a message that you can't do this to us." And it only takes one country to pick the latter to make it impossible to cancel the whole deal.

This is one of those instances where I am sure they would solve it quickly after being locked in a meeting for day. We can send Göran Persson he can fix this.

 

[D4Danger]

Revote to cancel it. Do it for fuck sake. Better to weaken your institution and build back their faith than to go through with this and suffer the much greater consequences.

a revote would probably end up with a bigger leave vote. It's baked into the British psyche to be as arrogant as possible when someone tells us what to do.

It's the same reason Obama coming over just before the vote to tell us we'd be at the back of the line did more harm than good.

 

[UpDownLeftRight]

Speaking to my uncle recently he seemed to express a bit of regret over his vote. Not the principle of the 'why' for his vote (immigration) but the outcome of the negotiations has him disappointed and he reckoned a re-vote would go to remain.

But what a re-vote would do for public faith in our democratic institutions is another question.

Faith in democratic institutions is a fucking shambles anyway. Look at where we are right now.

a revote would probably end up with a bigger leave vote. It's baked into the British psyche to be as arrogant as possible when someone tells us what to do.

It's the same reason Obama coming over just before the vote to tell us we'd be at the back of the line did more harm than good.

Funny. Trump told us what to do too and we did exactly what he said despite the UK finding him a laughing stock. The reality is people were hell bent on keeping them damn foreigners out of ole Blighty.

 

[Zaph]

Our Brexit "plan" is asking a bunch of other countries to do us favours just because. No shit there's a stalemate.

These people need a hard Brexit wake-up call. It's just infuriating only the younger/future generations will learn from it. Those who voted for Brexit will just keep blaming the EU like their favourite newspaper tells them to.

Outside of the 'bubble', there are a heck of a lot of people who still want Brexit.

Yup, no amount of terrible news about the damage they're doing to their children's future will overcome the 'good' news of reduced immigration. Racist middle-England needs to learn the hard way.

 

[Dr.Acula]

The issue is that if there is no deal, the UK reverts to WTO rules, as I understand it. Therefore, if the UK sees something in the WTO rules it thinks is overly lopsided towards the EU, their only remedy to their problem is to come up with a solution that helps themselves and is more appealing to the EU.

In a lot of ways this is entirely feasible, but the UK has to approach talks in a way that's "win-win." They can't be the bully here because they're tied to a post and the tide is coming in.

 

[D4Danger]

Funny. Trump told us what to do too and we did exactly what he said despite the UK finding him a laughing stock. The reality is people were hell bent on keeping them damn foreigners out of ole Blighty.

I don't even remember seeing Trump during the brexit vote, he didn't even win the republican nomination until a month after the brexit vote. (not saying he didn't say something I just don't remember. Nobody really cared about him until they had to). He seemed to take credit for it after though.

 

[Bedlam]

Oh, and today William Hague (former Tory leader) blamed the voters for it.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...c-mistake-theresa-may-successor-a7920891.html

What is he talking about? A different election result would've made no difference whatsoever to EU negotiators. But, need a cheap scapegoat for this disaster in motion, right?