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Der Spiegel: Turkey is a threat to world peace

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It had to be from a German weekly...

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,488843,00.html

In Turkey, the military and the government are engaged in an all-out struggle for power. The country is deeply divided, and decidedly unstable. Turkish writer Ahmet Altan describes his country's paradoxes and warns of the potentially dire consequences.

Turkey is moving toward a great -- and possibly final -- settling of accounts. But it is not the feared divisions of race or religion which are at play here. The country is crippled by a more fundamental and dangerous divide (more...). The "cultural divide" reigning throughout the Republican years has become very deep indeed.

Currently in Turkey, there is, on the one hand, a great mass of people who leave their shoes at the door before entering the house; whose women cover their heads; whose men go out in the street in pajamas; whose teenage boys frequent coffeehouses while girls live under a completely repressive rule; people whose homes are lit with cheap florescent bulbs; who enjoy a type of music somewhere between folk and arabesque; who have perhaps never read a book, never danced, never been to a restaurant as husband and wife, never gone to the theater; who have little education and profess strong religious beliefs.

On the other hand, there are those who went to high school at Robert College, with its girls' lyceum; who have danced at college parties or weddings, who go to movies, who read books, though not a lot; who are relatively well-educated; whose taste in music ranges from pop to classical; whose homes are decorated relatively tastefully; whose women don't cover their heads; who may not permit their teenage girls to date but look the other way when they do; who believe in God but pay little attention to prayers; who drink alcohol in mixed company though they may not know much about wines; who follow newspapers, watch talk shows, feel they are more progressive than the first group and live largely Western lives.

Antagonistic Beliefs

The life-styles of these two groups are disconnected.

Unlike in the West, where a sensibility shared by all classes is created out of such elements as church music, religious iconography and stories from the Bible adapted even for the screen, there is no cultural ground uniting the competing groups in Turkey. Their lives, their tastes, and their beliefs are separate. Even antagonistic.

The first group has been despised, discredited, and pushed around throughout the years of the Republic. Now this group has become politically organized. It is large. And it now has the political power to win every election.

The second group is in the minority. And it currently has no chance of ever winning another election.

It is at this point that there emerges a historical paradox: Because the more Western, second group knows that it will never come to power again if it observes Western political ideas, it is becoming antagonistic to Western democratic values.

But those in the first group, whose values are inimical to the West, know they will only take power by accepting Western criteria. The result is that they are trying to appropriate democratic values and enhance their relations with the West.

"The army" has an important role in this cultural disintegration. If it supports the first group, and the criteria of Western democracy are observed, the army will lose power as well. In fact the army is made up of children of the first group who are cooperating with the second group, inimical to them, in order hold on to power. In a sense, the army is betraying its own roots.

The two groups now appear to be mobilized for their final battle for power.

Europe Would Never Support a Coup

The first group is now economically powerful as well. Because its relations with "the state" are not good, it sells what it produces in Anatolia abroad. It has earning power. It supports its political organization. The second group lacks capital.

The supporters of the first group are the greater bourgeoisie, which trades abroad and borrows abroad. It is an intellectual sector which believes Turkey can only normalize by means of democracy, and a group of bureaucrats who think the structure of the state must change to better integrate with the wider world.

But important sectors of the justice system, the army, and the bureaucracy are behind the second group. Because the second group realizes it cannot stay in power by political and democratic means, it is now looking for other solutions.

The presidential election has brought the two sides' intentions out into the open and revealed how sharp their conflict is.

The second group, supported by the army, no longer wants an election. Rumours of a possible coup increase with every passing day. There is talk of juntas. But what will happen if there is a coup?

The group whose style of life is more Western will come to power backed by the army and will lose the support of the West; Europe would never support a coup.


Ever-pragmatic America, on the other hand, could perhaps accept a putsch in exchange for support of its policies in northern Iraq and in the Middle East. But America faces a serious obstacle. A nation that has occupied Iraq saying it will bring "democracy" to the country will not be able to explain to the world or to itself why it supports an undemocratic coup in Turkey. And after the disaster of Iraq, it doesn't have the power to sweep aside international objections. It would have to oppose a coup, like it or not.

So what will a country that gets funding from the West possessing an army that gets weapons from the West do if it breaks away from the West? I believe the second group has been considering this for some time. And has found an answer.

If there is a coup in Turkey, the world would encounter a phenomenon it has never seen before. Subsequent to a coup, Turkey would seek a partnership with Russia and Iran and would obtain its weapons, energy and funding from these two countries. The natural gas, oil and nuclear power from Russia and Iran would suffice to keep Turkey on its feet, if only for a while.

But a block made up of Russia, Turkey and Iran could change the global balance. It would take complete control of the Middle East. It would imprison Europe within the borders of its small continent. It would draw the Caucasus, Afghanistan, and Pakistan under its sway. It would form close relations with the Muslim world. It would dominate the sources of oil. It would also likely form a partnership with China.

A Single Gunshot

Such a development would dramatically decrease the effectiveness of a West made up of Europe, America, and to a lesser degree, Japan. The new block would have great strength militarily, financially, and in terms of energy sources. The Turkish fissure would thus lead to a one on a global scale.

If there is to be a World War III, I believe it would emerge from this rift.

"Such a thing could never happen," you may say... Those with incontrovertable data showing why it could not should speak up. But if it did -- and I think it quite possible -- what then?

To tell the truth, I think this scenario should be considered by all the actors involved: by those forming camps and divisions in today's Turkey; by the Europe which tries to push Turkey out of Europe, dealing insolently with a nation whose imperial inheritance is at once magnificent and pathetic, and pretends to "instruct" rather than offer cooperation; and by an America which believes itself clever when it plays a double game in its Turkey policy.

A bloody conflict like that which seems to be approaching in Turkey could set the whole world on fire. And it is not as distant as one might think. Never forget that World War I began with a single gunshot.
 

bionic77

Member
Currently in Turkey, there is, on the one hand, a great mass of people who leave their shoes at the door before entering the house; whose women cover their heads; whose men go out in the street in pajamas; whose teenage boys frequent coffeehouses while girls live under a completely repressive rule; people whose homes are lit with cheap florescent bulbs; who enjoy a type of music somewhere between folk and arabesque; who have perhaps never read a book, never danced, never been to a restaurant as husband and wife, never gone to the theater; who have little education and profess strong religious beliefs.

On the other hand, there are those who went to high school at Robert College, with its girls' lyceum; who have danced at college parties or weddings, who go to movies, who read books, though not a lot; who are relatively well-educated; whose taste in music ranges from pop to classical; whose homes are decorated relatively tastefully; whose women don't cover their heads; who may not permit their teenage girls to date but look the other way when they do; who believe in God but pay little attention to prayers; who drink alcohol in mixed company though they may not know much about wines; who follow newspapers, watch talk shows, feel they are more progressive than the first group and live largely Western lives.
That kind of writing won't even cut it for USA Today.

I expect better from you Instigator.
 
bionic77 said:
That kind of writing won't even cut it for USA Today.

I expect better from you Instigator.

Don't shoot the messenger! I thought it was uncharacteristically provocative of Der Spiegel so I had to post it here.

BTW, I believe most of their articles and editorials are translated from German.
 

bionic77

Member
Instigator said:
Don't shoot the messenger! I thought it was uncharacteristically provocative of Der Spiegel so I had to post it here.

BTW, I believe most of their articles and editorials are translated from German.
Ok that explains it.

Though I wonder if this is all an elaborate plot by you to get the GAF Turks riled up by bringing up the "A" word. If so, you are truly devious in your baiting.
 

Ceekus

Member
Looks like some neo-con nut job hacked Spiegel's website. Or maybe Victor Davis Hanson just got tired of being ignored on National Review Online.
 
bionic77 said:
Ok that explains it.

Though I wonder if this is all an elaborate plot by you to get the GAF Turks riled up by bringing up the "A" word. If so, you are truly devious in your baiting.

Nah, we covered the "A" word a couple of times before. BTW, there's nothing wrong with the "A" word, as long as you don't mix it with the "G" word. :)

Seriously, there's a lot of turmoil in Turkey lately which I think is more important than bad deeds in the past. The German editorial really goes far with it though.
 

Tauntaun

Banned
A bloody conflict like that which seems to be approaching in Turkey could set the whole world on fire. And it is not as distant as one might think. Never forget that World War I began with a single gunshot.

Well that's retarded.
 
Instigator said:



Damn are you dumb...

Quote the info about the author of the text instead of ranting:


"Ahmet Altan is one of Turkey's most successful writers and a well- known columnist. He began his career as a journalist and repeatedly came into conflict with the Turkish state. Altan has published numerous novels and essay collections -- many of which have sold well in Turkey. Ahmet Altan lives and works in Istanbul"


What does the whole thing have to do with Germany? The main title of the article even says "Opinion"...
 

RamzaIsCool

The Amiga Brotherhood
lol......a shity article which categorizes a whole population in 2 groups. I wonder in which one I belong, because I am high educated Turk, who has quite the “western” way of thinking and lo behold I would rather support the Islam-rooted party of AKP then the corrupt so called democratic parties and get this I am not even that religious.
 
Klaxon said:
Damn are you dumb...

Quote the info about the author of the text instead of ranting:


"Ahmet Altan is one of Turkey's most successful writers and a well- known columnist. He began his career as a journalist and repeatedly came into conflict with the Turkish state. Altan has published numerous novels and essay collections -- many of which have sold well in Turkey. Ahmet Altan lives and works in Istanbul"


What does the whole thing have to do with Germany? The main title of the article even says "Opinion"...

Ultimately, the mag makes the final decision to print whatever material it receives.

It would be a poor excuse on their part if they printed neo-nazi propaganda, claiming they didn't write it themselves, making it magically ok.
 

Kaeru

Banned
RamzaIsCool said:
lol......a shity article which categorizes a whole population in 2 groups. I wonder in which one I belong, because I am high educated Turk, who has quite the “western” way of thinking and lo behold I would rather support the Islam-rooted party of AKP then the corrupt so called democratic parties and get this I am not even that religious.

So Turkey is basically ****ed?

Authors point proven
 

RamzaIsCool

The Amiga Brotherhood
Kaeru said:
So Turkey is basically ****ed?

Authors point proven

The AKP will win the parliament election with great ease and that’s not only because the Islamists are supporting them. The thing is for a government party that is seen as a threat by some people they have done surprisingly a lot about the human rights issue, economical development and the relationship with the EU and neighbouring countries. Sure they have their Islamic roots and they are really conservative in some area’s, but I would hardly call them the destructive force that will end all that Turkey is trying to built up.

And I can say this issue is really overblown, the biggest things the people of Turkey are worrying about now is the PKK in northern Iraq and off course the football transfers.
 
Instigator said:
Ultimately, the mag makes the final decision to print whatever material it receives.

It would be a poor excuse on their part if they printed neo-nazi propaganda, claiming they didn't write it themselves, making it magically ok.


They didn't print it.

And not only that neo-nazi propaganda is mostly forbidden in Germany, why do you compare that with an article of a Turkish man who describes Turkey as a country with two sides?
 
Klaxon said:
They didn't print it.

And not only that neo-nazi propaganda is mostly forbidden in Germany, why do you compare that with an article of a Turkish man who describes Turkey as a country with two sides?

Playing with semnatics here, they posted it. They deemed it worthy enough to put it up for their international reader to read, out of half of a dozen articles or so they post each day. This was not a nobody posting comments in a talk-back section, it's someone Der Spiegel thought was credible and the editorial relevant and factual. That's why it's there.

Why compare? Because BS is BS no matter who writes it, no matter the content and no matter if it's legal or not. Der spiegel should have used a bit more discretion in this case. Do they even have someone screening what is pr... no, posted on their online page as news and worthy commentary? I am starting to doubt it.
 

ToxicAdam

Member
But a block made up of Russia, Turkey and Iran could change the global balance. It would take complete control of the Middle East. It would imprison Europe within the borders of its small continent. It would draw the Caucasus, Afghanistan, and Pakistan under its sway. It would form close relations with the Muslim world. It would dominate the sources of oil. It would also likely form a partnership with China.

:lol
 

Remedy

Banned
RamzaIsCool said:
The AKP will win the parliament election with great ease and that’s not only because the Islamists are supporting them. The thing is for a government party that is seen as a threat by some people they have done surprisingly a lot about the human rights issue, economical development and the relationship with the EU and neighbouring countries. Sure they have their Islamic roots and they are really conservative in some area’s, but I would hardly call them the destructive force that will end all that Turkey is trying to built up.

And I can say this issue is really overblown, the biggest things the people of Turkey are worrying about now is the PKK in northern Iraq and off course the football transfers.


talking of football transfers, you hear about tuncay going to boro and old man carlos coming to fenerbahce. Its the Turkish football league that needs stability.
 
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