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[Men_in_Boxes]

Two trailers that bugged the hell out of me roughly 4.27 seconds into watching the gameplay...





It feels like 99.9% of modern games (and old games) suffer from everything happening between 0 and 80m in front of the player. The vast majority of PvE engagements happen 30m in front of the player. All the enemies can run up to you in 4 seconds. It's all shotgun and AR range for literally everything.

Does this bother anyone else? Shouldn't we be getting more 500m+ distance engagements in games by now?


(Better representation of a more realistic, interesting virtual world)

 

[makaveli60]

I still don’t know if your threads are serious or you are just trolling us

 

[Magic Carpet]

Serious Sam has some serious distance.

 

[T4keD0wN]

How could a PvE engagement ever happen far away from a player?

 

[Bartski]

no

 

[Hrk69]

 

[Chuck Berry]

 

[AV]

Ask yourself - is ARMA 3 on consoles?

Why not?

 

[diffusionx]

Tribes-chads GET IN HERE

 

[March Climber]

How could a PvE engagement ever happen far away from a player?

I think he wants it to work like a Battle Royale where you can get sniped from a long distance away and never know who did it.

The problem is that BR's have a level of randomness to them, which helps alleviate the annoyance. In PvE you'll simply restart and spend some lives figuring out where the bullet even came from, which leads to more frustration.

 

[Punished Miku]

This is incredible. That engagement was so far away I still can't even see it. I'm 3 inches from the screen. What are they engaging again?

 

[nemiroff]

Why not go full cruise missile.

 

[sono]

Can you name a game that illustrates your point in that it shows how it should be done

 

[Kamina]

One reason why i like to play sniper.
Playing NCR Desert Ranger in FO New Vegas and FO4 (modded) with an Anti Materiel Rifle is glorious.

 

[Fart Knight]

Thats why they nerve snipers in mp games

 

[Aion002]

It's all about what most people like and close combat is way more popular than long range combat.

In first person shooters I tend to play with shotguns and smgs... So no. It doesn't bother me.

 

[Danjin44]

I still don’t know if your threads are serious or you are just trolling us

I’m convinced his doing some kind of internet “personality” to get some attention.

 

[SHA]

Going the distance

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Can you name a game that illustrates your point in that it shows how it should be done

Death Stranding and Ghost Recon play with 300+meter distances a bit...though not to my satisfaction.

The Arma games, DayZ and PUBG do it on the multiplayer side.

Then there are games like Horizon Forbidden West and Zero Dawn that offer massive open worlds but everything is designed in a way where your sight lines never exceed 140m for some God forsaken reason.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Thats why they nerve snipers in mp games

No, the snipers are just slightly more effective ARs. Think Widowmaker from Overwatch. They design every level to give her perches where she's most effective but the mid range characters like Soldier 76 are nearly as effective as here in those perches.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

I think he wants it to work like a Battle Royale where you can get sniped from a long distance away and never know who did it.

That's part of the draw, but really it's about creating more compelling virtual worlds.

When we travel in cities or rural areas IRL, we rarely find ourselves far away from 1,000+m sight lines. Videogame maps seem designed specifically to rid themselves of anything longer than 180m. Once you see it, you can't help but notice it all the time. It's Truman Show esque.

 

[John Bilbo]

This is incredible. That engagement was so far away I still can't even see it. I'm 3 inches from the screen. What are they engaging again?

Bush

 

[TintoConCasera]

I can think of 2 reasons why this isn't more common in PVE.

1) Rendering stuff that far away is taxing. Sure you can lower the LOD with distance but that isn't the best if you want a clear view of what's that far away. Animations specially can look super choppy.

2) Getting sniped from 2km away ain't fun at all. Stopped playing PUBG because of that.

Some PVE games have long distance stuff. Earth Defense Force 5, for example.

Tribes-chads GET IN HERE

Man I miss playing Ascend. Wonder if the community is still alive.

 

[FunkMiller]

 

[Griffon]

Shooting at 2 pixels-wide smears on your screen isn't that fun.

CQC offers a lot more gameplay opportunities.

 

[Hrk69]

Then there are games like Horizon Forbidden West and Zero Dawn that offer massive open worlds but everything is designed in a way where your sight lines never exceed 140m for some God forsaken reason.

Try shooting off that specific part you need at long distance

Plus the robots aren't going to stand idle while you try and snipe them. Of course they are going to attack you or run away.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Shooting at 2 pixels-wide smears on your screen isn't that fun.

CQC offers a lot more gameplay opportunities.

It's not just shooting though. It's logistics.

"Are they far enough away so I have time to do X?"



The environments feel so much more interesting and real when they do this.

 

[Codes 208]

Get back in your damn corner sniper camper

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Try shooting off that specific part you need at long distance

Plus the robots aren't going to stand idle while you try and snipe them. Of course they are going to attack you or run away.

That's not the point. Think of it this way...

When you go out hunting and see a deer at 300 yards, you have to ask yourself if it's worth taking the shot or if you should relocate & how to relocate.

In videogames that suffer from Truman Show sight lines, every time you see an NPC it's like the game doesn't want you thinking too deeply about things. The NPC is there so you can probably kill them with half of your weapons.

 

[March Climber]

That's part of the draw, but really it's about creating more compelling virtual worlds.

When we travel in cities or rural areas IRL, we rarely find ourselves far away from 1,000+m sight lines. Videogame maps seem designed specifically to rid themselves of anything longer than 180m. Once you see it, you can't help but notice it all the time. It's Truman Show esque.

Do you feel that this is probably due to hardware and engine limitations? It sounds like that level of sight line would take an insane amount of distanced fidelity.

Assuming you're wanting something better than this for example?

 

[poppabk]

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Do you feel that this is probably due to hardware and engine limitations? It sounds like that level of sight line would take an insane amount of distanced fidelity.

Assuming you're wanting something better than this for example?

I think it's more just harder to pull off from a design point of view. We saw games like Arma, Operation Flashpoint, and DayZ 15 years ago.

If you want to make interesting engagements at 500m - 1,000m away, you need to give the player more interesting strategic or logistical choices. Why do that when you can just create a thinly veiled shooting gallery game and, judging by this poll, no one seems to mind.

The Spiderman GIF you posted strikes me more as a skybox (non interactable) than what I'm talking about. I know the player can see a bridge way off in the distance and get to it real quick but I don't think enemies really grasp anything at real distances in that game.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Lol, yes! This is most games with a sniper rifle in them!

 

[Boralf]

But all that light in the gif, it's literally coming from the sun which is like a lot of kilometers away.

 

[Bert Big Balls]

I literally don't understand what this thread is.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

I literally don't understand what this thread is.

It's about sight lines or engagement distances in videogames.

 

[lughnasadh123]

HIMARS or gtfo(?)

 

[intbal]

Can you name a game that illustrates your point in that it shows how it should be done

 

[Bring Back Scalebound]

That's not the point. Think of it this way...

When you go out hunting and see a deer at 300 yards, you have to ask yourself if it's worth taking the shot or if you should relocate & how to relocate.

I wasn't sure of what you were saying in your thread, now I do.

In videogames that suffer from Truman Show sight lines, every time you see an NPC it's like the game doesn't want you thinking too deeply about things. The NPC is there so you can probably kill them with half of your weapons.

I disagree with  that
I think there is thinking that goes into the games you mentioned, it just that it requires quicker thinking, the one you want more of, requires more patient thinking.

Is like the difference between Resident Evil 1 and Resident Evil 6.
Believe it or not, ammo in RE 6 is actually not that plentiful.

That game requires the same amount of precision from you, that RE 1 does. The difference is that the encounters in 6 are more constant, and intense. And in RE 1, they tend to be spaced out, but intense when they happen.

They both ask for you to think and to be precise, just in different ways.

I don't know if it makes sense, but I understand what you want more of, and I want more of that too.

 

[hybrid_birth]

Some of us are blind as a bat and it would suck if everything was far away.

 

[buenoblue]

You mean like men fighting in really really big boxes?

 

[The Cockatrice]

I still don’t know if your threads are serious or you are just trolling us

Neither. They're idiotic, just like gamer79's ones.

 

[Wildebeest]

You think that is the annoying thing about sight lines? In most first person games the camera is not at eye level but at chest or neck level. This is because the line of sight of a gun is more important than the line of sight of a human.

 

[FeralEcho]

Bro is literally trying to force Concord into existence at this point.

The Dog is everyone on GAF
The guy throwing it is Men_in_Boxes
The blue frisbie is Concord

 

[Gp1]

I'm a huge huge Arma fan since the first OPF.

But one of the most boring things in single player Arma is navigate through the map for hours, prone on the grass, and be spotted/headshoted by a fucking half-pixel blob from 1 km distance, that you don't know if it is an enemy AI or the LOD glitching.

Edit. And half pixel blob when you are aim down sight with a good scope.

 

[adamsapple]

Bro is literally trying to force Concord into existence at this point.

The Dog is everyone on GAF
The guy throwing it is Men_in_Boxes
The blue frisbie is Concord

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