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[Kazza]

Life really does come at you fast, even in China. Just a couple of days ago, a new horror game from the makers of Detention was top of the sales charts and earning plaudits from Chinese gamers, leading to articles like this :
Weibo Netizens Captured by Taiwanese Horror Game “Devotion”: The Devoted game is creating a super devoted online fandom (Weibo is kind of like Chinese Twitter).

In just a few short hours, all of that has changed, with the game dropping like a stone off the sales charts and going from 95% positive reviews to just 39%. The reason why? This in-game poster here:

Despite knowing Chinese, the calligraphy style and traditional characters make it difficult for me to read, but apparently the red characters in the middle say "Xi Jinping" (President of China) and "Winnie the Pooh", and the four characters in the outer corner say "your mum". For those that don't know, there was a meme going around the Chinese internet a while back comparing President Xi to Winnie the Pooh, and there is a rumour that pictures of Winnie have been censored as a result (although I can't personally confirm this to be true):

If you're wondering why people making such a big deal about this, most Chinese people consider Taiwan a renegade province, but there are people in Taiwan who want to be independent (I don't know what proportion). There have been cases of Taiwanese actors and singers being boycotted by mainland Chinese after expressing even the mildest sympathy with this view. This developers have apologised (they claim that the poster was just a placeholder while the were developing the game that they forgot to take out), but from what I've read of the replies, it doesn't seemed to have placated the outraged people.

One of the most interesting things about living abroad is seeing the same kind of human situations played out in different ways. I've personally never seen any Chinese outrage about the kind of gender, trans people or racial issues that plague the US, and is easy to think "Wow, people are so much more relaxed here", and then someone goes and touches on the issue of Taiwanese independence and "Boom!".

For anyone interested, Devotion does sound like a pretty sweet game.

 

[IncognitoPanda]

God, China is crazy. I really hope.Taiwan gains independence someday, although it might be unlikely

 

[Kazza]

Reading the reviews, it's interesting to see the parallel with western outrages. A lot of them say "just make the game, why bring politics into it?", which we hear a lot on GAF too. A lot are pissed off that they kind of snuck this "anti-China" easter egg in here, as though the developers are for Taiwanese independence but don't have the balls to say it outright.

The excuse that it was a placeholder they forgot to remove sounds a little weak to me. If did use a placeholder, then why use that particular one of all things! It could have been a rouge programmer who did it of their own volition. They must have known that mainland Chinese would be their main customers, so this takes some balls (if it was deliberate). The again, developers deliberately making choices seemingly designed to antagonise their target audience isn't exactly unknown in the west either.

 

[JordanN]

Notice how the world makes fun of Trump but the U.S never reacts.

But make fun of a Communist dictator and it's always World War 3.

 

[KonradLaw]

Steam really needs an option to ignore chinese reviews. Or rather being able to remove specific countries' users from algoritms, but this is mostly problem with China review bombing games for stuff that has zero relevance to western audience.

Thankfully this outrage doesn't seem to be harming the game much, since it's selling very well and has high numbers of players. I loved the dev's previous game and this one is on my wishlist too, so I'm happy they will continue to make great games no matter how much chinese gamers whine about supposed offences. Especially when those damn ofences are references to memes actual damn chinese net users started

 

[Alexios]

Ah, that sucks. Iirc those drawings are shown to be kid-made juvenile stuff so it fits to have that kind of thing on there. Also the corridor was I think super dark and you'd only see this if you turned on your lighter as shown. Now you didn't have to, you could see where you're going without the lighter and there was nothing to actually interact with at that point beyond reaching the next area. But it's only natural that if you have a light you'll turn it on and check out everything along the way so if the devs thought most people would miss the reference they were quite silly. Oh well.

Still, when I checked last before the problem the game had like 1300 reviews. Now it has almost 15000! If people buy it to review bomb then the company still gets money. Lol? Detention for all its praise and being older still only has less than 9000 and that's getting more (bombing) too!

The game is pretty good, the mechanics are a lot like P.T. with some additional very light puzzling (I just reached a point where the next puzzle is a bit more engaging too though) but not as scary, as it's not trying to be that (yet at least), presenting a more esoteric kind of dread instead.

Edit: checking my last thread for the game maybe the company is under some sort of intervention for the issue because their youtube trailers (for just this game, not Detention yet) have gone kaput. I hope they don't get in trouble beyond superficial stuff like review bombing.
https://www.neogaf.com/threads/devo...-surreal-first-person-horror-pc-game.1471013/

 

[Kazza]

If people buy it to review bomb then the company still gets money. Lol?

I believe they can buy it, drop a negative review, and then get a refund (I think steam gives you that option if you have only played the game for less then an hour or something). While I don't like the whole review-bombing thing, there seems to be other aspects of the game designed to insult mainland Chinese people (disclaimer, I've yet to play the game). Apparently, the name of the cult leader is Lu Gongmin, which is a homonym of "mainland citizens" (just different characters). The implication here would be that the developers are satirising the mainland Chinese as blind cult followers. There are some other things too, you can read them about them here.

I still don't quite understand why the developers would deliberately troll what the would know to be a large part of their audience like this. If they did want to satirise the Chinese government, then why issue the apology afterwards? Maybe it was a single renegade coder who put this stuff in.

Edit: checking my last thread for the game maybe the company is under some sort of intervention for the issue because their youtube trailers (for just this game, not Detention yet) have gone kaput. I hope they don't get in trouble beyond superficial stuff like review bombing.

Nice thread, I didn't notice it before. Surprised they pulled the youtube videos. Taiwan is presently de-facto independent, so the Chinese government can't harm them directly. The concern now would be that this move could be commercial suicide (unless the proportion of buyers from mainland China is much smaller than I think). The game has been pulled from Chinese steam now. I can't wait to hear the full story behind this.

 

[Alexios]

Oh, yeah, totally forgot they can just get a refund. That's awful

I guess Steam should make some more changes beyond separating the "recent high volume of negative reviews" as they do in Detention. Devotion is all new so there can't be a separation. And I don't know how that changes after more time passes even in Detention's case, will they then be lumped all together with no more recent reviews? Maybe only people who played longer than the refund period should be able to review games. Or at least after playing an hour. But as long as it's transparent people will always game the system and just let the game running for an hour. Meh.

I can't speak for the other references cos it might just be people reaching after that one poster got them involved in that. I've not even played enough to hear anything about a "cult leader", it seemed to be a personal religious family story so far, but maybe I missed something big, lol. It would certainly be weird if they had something offensive about the Chinese people rather than any political figure. I would hope the people can be at peace even if their governments generally aren't. Like Greece with Turkey, sure you have all kinds of vocal nationalists hating each other and latching on the past but at the end of the day your average hard working family guy joe will be a decent person and might have friends or a high opinion of people from the other nation if they happened to visit or otherwise meet without such stuff on the table at some point.

Edit: it's certainly a bad look for the devs as well if all the stuff here is true:
https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198321303946/recommended/1006510/
Without knowing about any of that stuff the game stands on its own but if it's all true then it's not just the nebulous Chinese cult-like followers being irrational haters either. According to this, hate for their people, not just government stances, seeped into the content at every reaching chance.

 

[Kazza]

There's actually lots of business, tourism and cultural exchange between the mainland and Taiwan, but every now and again there's a controversy like this. My laptop isn't powerful enough to run this, but I do have Detention in my steam account, so I should probably get on to playing that.

 

[Kazza]

Edit: it's certainly a bad look for the devs as well if all the stuff here is true:
https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198321303946/recommended/1006510/

Interesting link. I only looked at the steam comments for a couple of minutes, too much craziness going on there for me, but thus guy sounds pretty reasonable. This bit makes sense:

However, people tend to follow the trend nowadays. They also want to have some conflicts online because nothing’s going to happen everyday in our daily life right?
Internet is a open secret place, everyone can speak whatever they want.
Although they might be a failure in the real world. They can be anyone on the internet.
It is easy for a media and government to let their followers to believe something.

 

[Wings 嫩翼翻せ]

Meh, I support them. I firmly believe that if you think something is bad, you shouldn't have to sugar coat it to pander to the people you know you don't like.

The U.S. especially has little respect for 習近平卑鄙之權柄，and China is well aware of the Taiwanese distaste as well on a political scale... granted, the political atmosphere there is starkly different than that of the West at this point in time, so conflating the two without proper media-political considerations would be inaccurate.

The internet is grand in the sense that we have (in the above link) a Chinese studying in Canada, learning about the bubble-like nature of education in China and how it affects their view on the world (kind of like college campuses in the United States). We can really see how their perspectives change once they leave the country. On simpler grounds, we can see how easily a political slap can have an affect on the sale of a game from their world. This type of occurrence has been quite prominent in the West, lest someone be surprised...

Thanks for sharing. Interesting news.

我沒有大問題與時勢對於這個電玩 DEVOTION
如果有缺乏支持從台灣裏籍強調這種事，則所有縱慾兼邪經在中國根本將繼續。

 

[Shellwy]

As a Chinese I have to say,TaiWanese and Chinese Growing up under different ideologies and political system and being educated to hold different political views,which is justifiable. and of course ,we both think opposite side is brain washed,which is pathetic for both of us, since we can only know each other by media or internet information controled by government.Do China say TaiWan good? NO! Do TaiWan say China good？NO！
However，Malicious personal attacks, insults and provocations to Xi Jinping are still too low,this just bring nothing good but bad effects. not to mention other things. At today's sensitive point, it is clear that this kind of thing is red line, it is not reasonable for someone insult others on his personal purpose and opinion,not to mention bring game to politics. but this action is bound to affect the trend of both game industry and even auditing after the two sides. I dont think that is every gamer for TaiWan and China love to see.
I have to admit that this is being overreacted in China considering sensitive timing and TaiWan and Internet control.What Can I say every coin have two sides.

 

[Cert.in.Death]

I find it rather hilarious that this Winnie the Pooh proxy for Xi Jingping bothers Chinese authorities so much, despite the seriousness of the underlying issues between China and its perceived adversaries.

 

[Jill Valentine]

I'm not deep into the details but basically they've got financially fucked in retaliation and they've taken the game down from Steam for now.

 

[mckmas8808]

If you're wondering why people making such a big deal about this, most Chinese people consider Taiwan a renegade province, but there are people in Taiwan who want to be independent (I don't know what proportion). There have been cases of Taiwanese actors and singers being boycotted by mainland Chinese after expressing even the mildest sympathy with this view. This developers have apologised (they claim that the poster was just a placeholder while the were developing the game that they forgot to take out), but from what I've read of the replies, it doesn't seemed to have placated the outraged people.

One of the most interesting things about living abroad is seeing the same kind of human situations played out in different ways. I've personally never seen any Chinese outrage about the kind of gender, trans people or racial issues that plague the US, and is easy to think "Wow, people are so much more relaxed here", and then someone goes and touches on the issue of Taiwanese independence and "Boom!".

.

First he does look like Winnie the Pooh lol.

Second.....every country has it's hot button issues. There isn't a place where everybody is just relaxed about everything.

 

[E.T. Waifu]

Yikes. China's fucked up.

 

[Breakfast at Noon]

Imagine your only personal issue is that people think you look like poo bear.

 

[frogger]

God, China is crazy. I really hope.Taiwan gains independence someday, although it might be unlikely

I don't want Taiwan to gain independence, I want main land China to change to more like Taiwan interm of political system, but that is more unlikely to happen.

 

[Thurible]

God, China is crazy. I really hope.Taiwan gains independence someday, although it might be unlikely

Isn't Taiwan already independent? China just doesn't recognize them and as such officially most states have to agree with China on the issue (due to their economic influence). So isn't it dependent on paper but independent from China in action?

 

[IncognitoPanda]

Isn't Taiwan already independent? China just doesn't recognize them and as such officially most states have to agree with China on the issue (due to their economic influence). So isn't it dependent on paper but independent from China in action?

More or less, I believe, but it's like China has a chokehold on them., still. Independent doesn't always mean free.

 

[Jill Valentine]

Isn't Taiwan already independent? China just doesn't recognize them and as such officially most states have to agree with China on the issue (due to their economic influence). So isn't it dependent on paper but independent from China in action?

I did read the Steam community page for this here and there in the fallout of this, I'll give you one story;

"China does not interfere in other countries like you Americans and your wars"
"What about Tibet and Taiwan?"
"TIBET AND TAIWAN ARE CHINA, NOT COUNTRIES!"

 

[IbizaPocholo]

Horror Game Devotion Pulled from Sale for Making Fun of Chinese President

Red Candle Games confirms that its critically-acclaimed horror game Devotion, which was pulled from sale earlier this year, will not be getting re-released.

gamerant.com

 

[Kusanagi2086]

This is just outrageous and I feel bad for the devs the inferiority complex of Mainland Chinese is truly mindblowing but not surprising having traveled through the country.

 

[SonGoku]

Game devs should just leave politics OUT
Not that hard.

 

[Kusanagi2086]

Game devs should just leave politics OUT
Not that hard.

Bullshit take many games have political themes and messages in them Metal Gear Series is an example of that there is plenty of political messaging in there.

Nothing wrong with having politics in games as long as it serves the story the creator is trying to tell, what are you gonna complain about next the Chernobyl series showing how bad the soviet union handled the Chernobyl incident and then tried to lie about it.

 

[SonGoku]

Bullshit take many games have political themes and messages in them Metal Gear Series is an example of that there is plenty of political messaging in there.

Nothing wrong with having politics in games as long as it serves the story the creator is trying to tell, what are you gonna complain about next the Chernobyl series showing how bad the soviet union handled the Chernobyl incident and then tried to lie about it.

If its dated politics fine, but current politics is a big no no
There's no story telling with current politics just pushing agendas

edit: and in this case its a poor taste joke not story telling related

 

[Kazza]

That's very disappointing to hear. As China becomes more and more important on the world stage, Chinese people will have to learn to become less sensitive to criticism (look how much stick the US has got over the past 50+ years, some deserved and some not). But at the same time, why oh why did the developers (or maybe just one rogue developer) feel the need to insert politics into their survival horror game? Imagine for a second if Capcom were to include a "Fuck Trump" easter egg into the next Resident Evil game? Of course, the US isn't China and it wouldn't be pulled from shelves, but it would be seen by many as developers inserting their politic opinions into non-political fields.

Seeing as once something is put on the internet it stays on the internet, I hope I can find this game for download somewhere.

 

[DansDans]

Seeing as once something is put on the internet it stays on the internet, I hope I can find this game for download somewhere.

if you find it, I would be interested in knowing where from too!

 

[Kazza]

if you find it, I would be interested in knowing where from too!

It would probably be against forum rules to post a link, but I'm sure a little searching would turn up something rather quickly.

 

[gela94]

Censorship at its finest

 

[petran79]

That's very disappointing to hear. As China becomes more and more important on the world stage, Chinese people will have to learn to become less sensitive to criticism (look how much stick the US has got over the past 50+ years, some deserved and some not). But at the same time, why oh why did the developers (or maybe just one rogue developer) feel the need to insert politics into their survival horror game? Imagine for a second if Capcom were to include a "Fuck Trump" easter egg into the next Resident Evil game? Of course, the US isn't China and it wouldn't be pulled from shelves, but it would be seen by many as developers inserting their politic opinions into non-political fields.

Seeing as once something is put on the internet it stays on the internet, I hope I can find this game for download somewhere.

You can make good games about politics, it is just that console companies are too sensitive about it

Even more than nudity

 

[Mokus]

That's very disappointing to hear. As China becomes more and more important on the world stage, Chinese people will have to learn to become less sensitive to criticism (look how much stick the US has got over the past 50+ years, some deserved and some not). But at the same time, why oh why did the developers (or maybe just one rogue developer) feel the need to insert politics into their survival horror game? Imagine for a second if Capcom were to include a "Fuck Trump" easter egg into the next Resident Evil game? Of course, the US isn't China and it wouldn't be pulled from shelves, but it would be seen by many as developers inserting their politic opinions into non-political fields.

Seeing as once something is put on the internet it stays on the internet, I hope I can find this game for download somewhere.

It's not Chinese people but the leaders who are not accepting criticism, and they push through propaganda that the leader is a saint and outside critcs want only to harm their country. Chinese people not heaving access to information other than what the censorship allows, they can be more easily manipulated.

 

[ROMhack]

That's very disappointing to hear. As China becomes more and more important on the world stage, Chinese people will have to learn to become less sensitive to criticism (look how much stick the US has got over the past 50+ years, some deserved and some not). But at the same time, why oh why did the developers (or maybe just one rogue developer) feel the need to insert politics into their survival horror game? Imagine for a second if Capcom were to include a "Fuck Trump" easter egg into the next Resident Evil game? Of course, the US isn't China and it wouldn't be pulled from shelves, but it would be seen by many as developers inserting their politic opinions into non-political fields.

Seeing as once something is put on the internet it stays on the internet, I hope I can find this game for download somewhere.

Well, it's a six-person team so it's not really fair to relate to Capcom. You may as well ask why mom and pop aren't copying Coca-cola.

Second, you've already mentioned how big an issue China is, especially for Hong Kong and Taiwan. There's a massive geopolitical crisis happening right now - summed up recently by the demonstrations in HK. It's an even bigger political problem than anything in the US/UK so I think it's a bit of a misread of the situation to say people shouldn't be political.

 

[Kazza]

It's a six-person team. Why are you relating to Capcom? You may as well ask why mom and pop aren't copying Coca-cola.

I'm not sure how the size of the team is relevant here. I made the comparison to Capcom because Resident Evil and Devotion because they are both horror-themed games, making contemporary political statements a little out of place.

It's not Chinese people but the leaders who are not accepting criticism, and they push through propaganda that the leader is a saint and outside critcs want only to harm their country. Chinese people not heaving access to information other than what the censorship allows, they can be more easily manipulated.

I'm studying Chinese in China right now, so watch the news almost every day. You often get scenes of President Xi arriving at a school/mine/factory etc and immediately being surrounded by adoring crowds. People have a much more nuanced view view if you speak to them one-on-one about it, but Chinese people are definitely much more sensitive to criticism of their leader than most western countries.

 

[ROMhack]

I'm not sure how the size of the team is relevant here. I made the comparison to Capcom because Resident Evil and Devotion because they are both horror-themed games, making contemporary political statements a little out of place.

I'm trying not to sound rude here as you're in China and closer to this issue than myself but I believe there's a huge difference between the working practices of an independent developer and a Japanese corporation with a revenue of $500m. It's one of the great things about indie developers that they're able to be more independently expressive.

Also, horror as a genre is frequently used as a vehicle for contemporary political statement.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_of_the_Living_Dead#Critical_analysis

More recently:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Get_Out

 

[Kazza]

I'm trying not to sound rude here as you're in China and closer to this issue than myself but I believe there's a huge difference between an independent developer and a Japanese corporation with a revenue of $500m.

Also, horror as a genre is frequently used as a vehicle for contemporary political statements.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_of_the_Living_Dead#Critical_analysis

More recently:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Get_Out

No worries, I didn't detect any rudeness in your post.

If you're saying that a tiny independent studio such as RedCandleGames is more vulnerable to being bullied than a big corp such as Capcom and is thus more deserving of our sympathy, then I agree. It's fine for horror games to carry a political message and I don't think they should be banned under any circumstances. As I said in a previous post, I think Chinese people need to chill out about criticism of their leaders and accept that it is going to grow along with their influence and power.

For me, seeing how well the game was doing in mainland China, it was a little sad to see it suddenly taken down like that. As far as I know, we still don't know the chain of events and the intentions of the developer. If they meant to make an anti Communist Party game, then why the subsequent grovelling apologies? Just release a statement saying "Yeah, so we criticised your dear leader, so what?" If that wasn't their intention, then why bother including the anti-Communist Party material at all? Also, we can't they just release the game on the Western version of Steam or GOG, and ban it on the Chinese one? Why should everyone else be denied the chance to buy it? Maybe there's some legal wrangling going on. Who knows! The whole thing is a little confusing.

As I said, I want to find a way to play the game anyway. I've already bought Detention, and will now buy the Detention soundtrack as "payment" for this game, seeing as there is no other way to give them money.

 

[Kazza]

Is this legit, because it seems that you can download it and offer your own price (warning: could possibly be a scam):

Sito web non rinnovato

EDIT: Confusingly, it seems to be a different horror game, also called Devotion.

 

[Wings 嫩翼翻せ]

Lol good for them. There's really no need to add fuel to the fire and I guess they realize that, all things aside.

Though, looking back, I couldn't understand how you would expect anything good to come out of this. You can't just write 習近平 anywhere with an anti-establishment political stance (especially referencing a meme that's banned in China atm).

Sucks but I guess that's how the ball rolls.

For me, seeing how well the game was doing in mainland China, it was a little sad to see it suddenly taken down like that. As far as I know, we still don't know the chain of events and the intentions of the developer. If they meant to make an anti Communist Party game, then why the subsequent grovelling apologies? Just release a statement saying "Yeah, so we criticised your dear leader, so what?" If that wasn't their intention, then why bother including the anti-Communist Party material at all?

IMO it's quite simple. You have Taiwan President 蔡英文 who even hesitates to speak ill of the President, choosing her words carefully as she hedges around talks of declaring independence; current politics in 香港 regarding extradition laws; people trying to find political asylum in Taiwan from the Guo because they're afraid of what they say online... surely a group of easily-identifiable game developers aren't willing to cross that line.

I can't answer the "why bother" question, though.