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[yurinka]

Only a PC delusional person could write this. Even if Sony is in dumbest mode, I can’t see how they could compete with Steam deck with a non existent catalog making a PC handheld machine, instead making a PS5 portable.

No, I'm just an informed dev instead. Desilusional are those like you who think a PS5 portable is something realistic, or even more that desilusional would be to think Sony would make another portable console that requires its own games and ports (as would be a "PS5 portable" or any other console) after the huge failure Vita was and the awful sales 3rd parties have on Switch.

The Vita, which was an utter disaster because required to make game and port for it and nobody bought them, sold way more than Steamdeck. The PS Portal, which only is a remote play player pretty likely will sell more than Steamdeck too.

So will Sony's PC handheld. As of now there isn't a PC PSN, but it will exist in a few years, some years before the handheld releases. A PS5 portable wouldn't be possible, if it would it would be too expensive and its battery would last 2 minutes.

I think in terms of horsepower will be somewhere between Steamdeck and Series S, but featuring great supersampling and frame generation to run PC games that in a 1080p small screen at would be somewhat similar to PS5 games or even better.

Sony was the top 20 publisher on PC in FY22. In FY23 they made way more money, so must be now way higher in that ranking. After FY24 will be even higher. By the time PS6 releases pretty likely will be one of the very top ones, if not the top one. More than enough to have their own PC store, which thanks to being integrated with the console PSN will have a huge userbase and 3rd party support since the very start.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

I've read the other posts ITT since this morning and I'm seeing a lot of people throwing technical specifications around, but no one has actually answered the more important question: what is the industry and business case for a PS4 Portable right now?

Let's start with industry first. Sony already have the PS5 out there, and they'll be launching the PS5 Pro later this year. They also have the PSVR2. So by the end of the year, they will have at least two systems of different performance specifications on the market for developers to focus on; while the PSVR2 is technically also there, it isn't it's own "system", and market-wise is not really present at retail when it comes to demand (seemingly).

So you already have the PS5 which is the baseline, and then we have the PS5 Pro which will be the upper-end. Now some of you are saying they'll put out a PS4 Portable, which would fall below PS5 and be the floor in terms of specifications to target. That's three different performance profiles developers would now have to account for, if this is a PS4 Portable meant to get current-gen games. Yes, I'm sure the PS4 Portable would have some form of PSSR in it to help with scaling, but it's also much easier to scale up than it is to scale down. I said this years ago WRT Xbox Series S vs X. That doesn't suddenly change now just because we're talking about PlayStation.

A PS4 Portable also would present some issues with actual native PS4 support for new games, if the downscaled versions of those games are leveraging feature set functions only shared among the Portable, PS5, and PS5 Pro. The PS4 as we know it, doesn't have those features at the hardware level. So developing downscaled versions of games originally made for PS5, to run on a PS4 Portable but ALSO meant to run on actual PS4 consoles, could require even more optimization workloads for developers, slowing down development times.

The PS4 issue in that regard becomes a moot point if the goal on Sony's end isn't to support the base PS4 in that way; they would likely be more interested getting PS4 owners to upgrade to a PS5. And I guess this can segued into the business-side argument. In that context, perhaps having a PS4 Portable can be a better entry point for remaining PS4 owners to jump over into the PS5 hardware ecosystem, especially in markets where home consoles aren't that strong, such as Japan. I've acknowledged this multiple times.

However, those particular gamers are probably going to be more price-conscious, so let's just think about this. If the PS Portal, a streaming-only device with "weak" (compared to a PS4) mobile components goes for $199, how much do you think a PS4 Portable is going to be? At least more than $199, for certain. How much more is a crapshoot; maybe the Portal gets a price cut to $149 or even cheaper so a PS4 Portable can hit $249 or $299. Because realistically those are likely the only price points where it can work as a bridge to get remaining PS4 owners (who'd comprise a big bulk of the target audience) to the PS5 ecosystem.

A $249 or $299 PS4 Portable, probably releasing sometime in 2025, that can play all PS4 games and play scaled-down versions of PS5 games, in a portable gaming market that'd also include a (likely) $399 Switch 2 and either next year or 2026, both a new Steam Deck and probably some Xbox handheld. All three of those are going to have performance at least on par with a PS4 Portable, potentially better in some cases. Whether they can do that at $299 or less...personally I don't think so, but for various reasons. Nintendo: they'd take a loss and they hate that. Valve? Not enough volume for economies of scale. Microsoft? Likely similar situation to Valve.

So if this PS4 Portable is real, to work as a business case Sony have to REALLY target those PS4 customers (and customers like them say in the Switch ecosystem, or Xbox ecosystem) who are ready to jump to current gen within a year or so, but want an affordable portable/handheld option, that can also play a big backlog of games & play current-gen releases natively. I don't care if SIE hate the idea; they would have to aim for $299 and nothing more for it to be worth a business venture in the market, the way the market is looking to be like by next year or slightly later.

Why don't I mention current PS5 owners as key targets? Three reasons, actually. 1: the core in that group interested in new hardware would be more interested in MORE performance, not less, so they're more interested in a PS5 Pro. 2: those who are core in that demographic would, if wanting to play PS5 games on the go, likely prefer the Portal's at-PS5-fidelity option (albeit streamed) vs. lower-than-PS5-fidelity native portability (and in fact a good number probably already have a PS Portal). And while a smaller reason (plus some will disagree with me), 3: some in that core market are aware enough of SIE's PC strategy to probably consider a PC-based handheld for portability needs vs. a PS4 Portable, especially if they mostly play 3P games & ESPECIALLY if SIE (erroneously) push for Day 1 PC support of more or all of their games (particularly without their own launcher).

That is the business-side of the question mostly answered, but it depends on a lot of factors. How does Sony avoid not having devs strain their resources optimizing settings for games to run on a PS4 Portable? How do they do that while ALSO asking them to optimize for the PS5 and PS5 Pro? How do they ensure game scope doesn't take a hit if the PS4 Pro is supported? Will supporting it be mandatory for all publishers? How do they handle the production logistics of the device balanced with production of the PS5 and the Pro? How do they ensure they have something flexible enough to remain a cheaper entry-point device into the current-gen market when compared to competing portables already own and planned to release within the next couple of years?

This is why in my opinion, and especially with the PS5 Pro seemingly coming, and a PSVR2 needing resuscitation, that Sony's better option for now would just be to improve PS Portal production. Get cloud gaming going for the Portal (it being listed as its own device in NPDs months back suggested this could have been the plan, since that was done at Sony's request), maybe a redesign that can present a variant in a more "traditional" portable package, and get more games support for PS1/2/3/Vita/PSP both streaming and native between PS5 and the Portal (the latter probably not able to do native BC for certain systems without some revised specs).

If PSSR turns out very well, and Sony can develop other complementing technology for it to address other areas of the graphics & logic pipeline that handle scaling (both up and down) as much as possible so devs don't have to micromanage as much, that'd be great. The PS6 generation would be an optimal point for a "capable enough" home console paired with a downscaled handheld that can natively play lower-setting versions of PS6 games, likely native PS5 games, PS4 games, prior PS consoles & handhelds as well.

What I'm concerned with, if Sony do put out a PS4 Portable this gen (such as if next year), then it's just so much hardware in so little a time frame. It'd mean, in the span of only two years, they'd have released: PSVR2, PS Portal, PS5 Pro, and a PS4 Portable. Do you know what other platform holder pushed out a ton of hardware in a small space of time? SEGA. Yes in SEGA's case there were additional problems, such as their myriad of systems all having very different architectures and performance abilities, plus in certain cases incompatible software libraries, making things increasingly frustrating with them during the 4th-gen > 5th-gen transition.

Even so, no platform holder is immune from making a similar mistake, and I think a PS4 Portable coming so soon from Sony would be pushing a repeat of that type of scenario. Amid the things they're doing well, and some of the things I feel they could be doing better, I don't think it's wise of SIE to run that risk. Just do a Portal revision, get stock for that thing better, and make it easy for devs to support the PS5 Pro once that comes out. Portal, PS5, and PS5 Pro are the only systems they really need at this time; save the PS4 Portable for a better-realized PS6 Portable (and an aside: don't give up on VR/MR, although that is just wishful thinking personally!).

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Dang did you wake up on the wrong side of the bed to type this or what?

Okay, let me break it down for you, piece by piece.

The quality of your posts have simply gone significantly downhill. It's actually pretty jarring.

I didn't say a PS6-capable handheld. I said a handheld based on PS6 technology. A derivative of the PS6. Sharing same architectural features, but (obviously) pared down in total amount of certain resources like GPU shaders, RAM, RAM bandwidth etc.

If you haven't been paying attention, SIE have this thing called PSSR for the PS5 Pro, that they're gonna improve in the future. Stuff like that would be key to a new handheld based on PS6 tech.

You said exactly what you said. I've already mentioned PSSR in this very thread.

That's Nintendo; they had a disaster in the Wii U and 3DS kind of underperformed. They were more conservative than usual with pushing for their follow-up. Nvidia were the only company with a product at the time that could meet their needs at a good cost. In fact, what they had was better for the price than what Nintendo were cooking up for a 3DS successor up to that point.

Nintendo are not SIE. They have different approaches to designing hardware at a target MSRP. Don't know why you're bringing them up :/

SIE can't magically make a significantly more affordable device than Nintendo that's also significantly more power. The idea that you think there's going to be a handheld based on technology in the PS6 reveals a serious lack of understanding.

Again, not a PS6-level handheld? A new handheld based on PS6 technologies. It'd have a more modern feature-set than the PS5, even if things like TF and RAM bandwidth would be much less than a PS6 proper.

How did you not gleam this from my post?

By reading what you wrote as ridiculous as it was.

I'm sure this rumored PS4-based handheld would do streaming. My question is, what is the business sense in doing it now, versus saving the native-play handheld effort for next gen?

According to MLID it would do native now, but would require scaled down versions of games. You know... how developers do for PC already and Xbox Series S already.

I was one of those folks kicking up the idea of a PS4 handheld like a year or so ago, you can find posts of mine talking about it going that far back. However, that was under the assumption of certain other things. A lot of SIE's own 1P titles have been ported to PC since then, and there's the chance that will continue with even greater frequency going forward. Maybe even Day 1. I don't think that would be a smart decision on SIE's part, but I've said why plenty of times before plus that's a different topic somewhat.

Anyway, you have them and those PC ports; you have 3P who have ported many of their own PS4 games to PC. The PS4 itself isn't getting a lot of new games anymore outside of the rare cross-gen effort here or there. The combination of those things already kind of limits what a new handheld focused on natively playing PS4 games could bring to the market.

The point of this isn't to market it as a PS4 handheld, the point of it is that it could natively play all existing PS4 games, which are about 90% of the games on the market today. You're so focused on the PS4 end of it that you can't understand that.

Again I ask you and everyone: what is the value proposition of a new SIE handheld that can natively play PS4 games, going to be in a 2024/2025-beyond market where Steam Deck (& Steam Deck 2) and Switch 2 exist? Considering it's, 1: not getting a lot of new current-gen releases, and 2: doesn't have a large library of exclusive games to access for convenience of portability (since so many 3P games are on PC now and therefore compatible with Steam Deck, not to mention almost all of SIE's PS4-era 1P games are on Steam now too)?

See above. Switch 2 doesn't have a library of PS4 quality games. The Steam Deck is not sold at retail. Ensuring that PS4 games can play on it, you immediately resolve the problem of launching a device with no software support.

Who can answer that question in a way that makes a PS4 handheld in today's market, make sense? If SIE hadn't ported most of their PS4 and PS5-era 1P games to PC, a PS4 Portable would've had more market appeal IMO to the hardcore/core gamers who'd make up most of the customers, because then they could play those exclusives on-the-go. The ability to stream PS5 games is the exact same value proposition argument the PS Portal already has going for it, and a PS4 Portable doing the same & more would surely cost a lot more.

The PC ports have nothing to do with a PS handheld, because the Steam Deck is not a mass market product. There is one thing to sell a streaming device at 200 dollars and another to sell it at 400+ dollars.

Many of the big AAA games coming out now are NOT cross-gen, though. SIE's own 1P stopped being cross-gen with GOW Ragnarok; outside of the MLB games nothing else from them is cross-gen anymore. The big 3P AAA games are now solidly current-gen only: Alan Wake 2, Dragon's Dogma 2, the upcoming Star Wars and AssCreed games, GTA6, Dead Space, even smaller stuff like HiFi Rush are all current-gen only. The audience for cross-gen who are still buying those games on 8th-gen consoles, is not going to be the audience that gravitates to a PS4 Portable. Why would they? To play Fortnite or Apex Legends on-the-go? They either likely aren't interested enough, or already have another means to do that like a smartphone.

And the games that aren't cross gen can get a scaled down version just like the Series S. Do you think GTA6 isn't releasing on the Series S?

Ideally, the time for a PS4 Portable would've been at the start of this generation, not midway through. And I think especially in light of SIE's porting strategy to PC, among other things like them already having the PS Portal on the market, the optimal time for a PS4 Portable has passed. However, that doesn't mean they can't refocus the PS Portal into a more handheld/portable like device, and offer cloud streaming in addition to the Remote Play it already features. That just seems like the much better short & mid-term option for SIE here in the handheld/portable space.

And what you fail to understand is that it wasn't possible at the start of the generation.

Meanwhile, save the ambitions for a native handheld for the PS6 generation; a device that can (likely) natively play PS5 games (maybe with an attached dock) as well as PS4 games, scaled down versions of PS6 games natively, and native BC with PS1/2/3/PSP/Vita. The market would go crazy for that type of device; it could be counted with PS6 in SKU numbers, have clear points of differentiation, command a solid price and help with adoption in markets where home consoles aren't as strong.

See above... you have no concept of technical challenges.

I think some of you want SIE to jump into this "PC handheld revolution" or put out a new portable RIGHT NOW just so they're in the conversation. But to me it'd be a rushed decision and waste of time. The PS Portal is good enough for their handheld/portable needs right now. Just do a revision with a more proper handheld-like design, work on getting dedicated cloud gaming on the thing, get availability improved and just work on a PS6-based handheld in time for 10th-gen.

You can't see the forest for the trees.

If Valve wants to release a Steam Deck 2 in the meantime, that's their thing. Nintendo's gonna push the Switch 2? Cool, it'll be a massive hit. Microsoft wants to put out an Xbox handheld before 2026? Fine. I hope they find success with it. Let these other companies do their thing and let SIE do what's best for them which, IMO, is a revision/availability increase for PS Portal in the short & mid-term, improving BC (and available titles) for PS1/2/3/PSP/Vita, and putting R&D towards a native PS6-based handheld in time for 10th-gen.

Besides IMO they need to do other things with the PS5 as-is. That'd include things like re-establishing some genuine exclusivity in software offerings, cutting the fat on some of the more expensive game budgets, increase volume of software output (such as with more internal AA titles), & finding novel ways to monetize the big AAA games (such as breaking them up into installments releasable in 2-3 year intervals). Additionally, finding ways to address software prices (such as a per-game subscription/installment payment option on the store), finding ways to balance online play between console & PC for GAAS titles (either make online free on console again or give console players perks for buying GAAS titles on console), and more. They also have to focus on the impending PS5 Pro.

Sony is looking to expand their margins across the board. Selling more games on the same platform makes sense, whether you see it or not.

And somehow people are saying SIE should have yet ANOTHER somewhat-pricey gaming device on the market simultaneously in addition to PS5, PS5 Pro, PSVR2, and PS Portal? What are we asking for here, mid-'90s SEGA?



I care. I still play a lot of PS1 and 2 games on the regular. It's also worth doing because game preservation is kind of important. And, better for SIE to handle their own preservation than let outsiders run amuck doing it for them (often in nebulous ways, and for a platform that is definitely not PlayStation hardware in terms of benefiting from those emulation/preservation efforts).

You lot need to stop thinking something isn't worth pursuing just because it's a more dedicated niche. It'd also appear SIE disagrees with you going by some recent job listings

You have no idea what that job listing is actually for.

So SIE giving console owners of their $549 VR headset that's seen native ports dry up, and hardware sales also dry up, in the span of only a year, a reason to get more use out of their $549 and not make them feel like they paid the cost of a console for a briefly supported add-on, is a bad idea?

Yeah, I'm sure SEGA probably felt very similar towards those SEGA CD and 32X owners as they were about to drop them like a hot potato to bring out their own even-more-expensive hardware of the time. We should ask them how that worked out for the Saturn .

Someone doesn't understand complementary devices vs competing devices.

And yes, I've brought up SEGA a couple times throughout this, but unlike with you & Nintendo, my reason has purpose: it's to show the parallel in scenarios despite time separating them so greatly. In my case, also to serve as cautionary tales of perhaps what NOT to do as a platform holder at these key timeline moments.

After all if you don't learn from history, you're doomed to repeat it. Microsoft knows a little about that when it comes to gaming .

How did your post quality fall so dramatically?

 

[LavitzSlambert]

No, I'm just an informed dev instead. Desilusional are those like you who think a PS5 portable is something realistic, or even more that desilusional would be to think Sony would make another portable console that requires its own games and ports (as would be a "PS5 portable" or any other console) after the huge failure Vita was and the awful sales 3rd parties have on Switch.

The Vita, which was an utter disaster because required to make game and port for it and nobody bought them, sold way more than Steamdeck. The PS Portal, which only is a remote play player pretty likely will sell more than Steamdeck too.

So will Sony's PC handheld. As of now there isn't a PC PSN, but it will exist in a few years, some years before the handheld releases. A PS5 portable wouldn't be possible, if it would it would be too expensive and its battery would last 2 minutes.

I think in terms of horsepower will be somewhere between Steamdeck and Series S, but featuring great supersampling and frame generation to run PC games that in a 1080p small screen at would be somewhat similar to PS5 games or even better.

Sony was the top 20 publisher on PC in FY22. In FY23 they made way more money, so must be now way higher in that ranking. After FY24 will be even higher. By the time PS6 releases pretty likely will be one of the very top ones, if not the top one. More than enough to have their own PC store, which thanks to being integrated with the console PSN will have a huge userbase and 3rd party support since the very start.

This is clearly where the battle is going. Once digital purchases went mainstream, companies don't see a need to tie themselves to physical disks and their proprietary box. Microsoft and Sony are gunning to eat Valve's lunch. Each of the big platforms is trying to maintain their own little fiefdom. You have PC gamers who built up their libraries in Steam, and are staying put. You have Playstation fans that built up their libraries (and PS+ free games) for years, they aren't moving. And now you have Microsoft that has been testing the waters but finally taking the plunge.

As a PC gamer, I don't see any compelling reason to switch platforms right now. But my guess is that we are going to see the same shit that the movie/tv streaming industry pulled, where everybody wants control of their products exclusively through their own stores, and push their mandatory accounts and launchers.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

No, I'm just an informed dev instead. Desilusional are those like you who think a PS5 portable is something realistic, or even more that desilusional would be to think Sony would make another portable console that requires its own games and ports (as would be a "PS5 portable" or any other console) after the huge failure Vita was and the awful sales 3rd parties have on Switch.

The Vita, which was an utter disaster because required to make game and port for it and nobody bought them, sold way more than Steamdeck. The PS Portal, which only is a remote play player pretty likely will sell more than Steamdeck too.

So will Sony's PC handheld. As of now there isn't a PC PSN, but it will exist in a few years, some years before the handheld releases. A PS5 portable wouldn't be possible, if it would it would be too expensive and its battery would last 2 minutes.

I think in terms of horsepower will be somewhere between Steamdeck and Series S, but featuring great supersampling and frame generation to run PC games that in a 1080p small screen at would be somewhat similar to PS5 games or even better.

Sony was the top 20 publisher on PC in FY22. In FY23 they made way more money, so must be now way higher in that ranking. After FY24 will be even higher. By the time PS6 releases pretty likely will be one of the very top ones, if not the top one. More than enough to have their own PC store, which thanks to being integrated with the console PSN will have a huge userbase and 3rd party support since the very start.

A sony PC handheld makes zero sense. In fact it makes less than zero sense.

Somehow you're suggesting it is a binary option of having a PC handheld or a unique handheld that has to have its own games developed for it.

The optimization it takes to scale down games from the PlayStation platform is way simpler and more of a long term option than focusing on limited PC ports and a library that may or not get 3rd party support. It's way easier to get 3rd party support getting studios to scale down like Series S than to add to a unique PC Store.

That isn't to say a PC store isn't happening either. You're just conflating two ideas together in a way that makes the least sense possible.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

As a PC gamer, I don't see any compelling reason to switch platforms right now. But my guess is that we are going to see the same shit that the movie/tv streaming industry pulled, where everybody wants control of their products exclusively through their own stores, and push their mandatory accounts and launchers.

This is absolutely where the future is going. You have to build towards a future where you assume you have zero 3rd party support. Which is why I think they'll eventually make a play at Taketwo and why they need to be in a growth mindset right now in order to afford bigger purchases. Every 3rd party that isn't a part of them is going to be a competitor in the future or purchased by big tech.

Once we get to streaming, the current environment is dead.

 

[Melter]

You

Me with my Portal be like:

have no one to blame but yourself for that one

 

[Sgt.Asher]

Another sony peripheral to be abandoned.

 

[ShadyAcshuns]

If this turns out to be true, color me conflicted.

 

[sono]

Colour me interested.

Not psvita please. Just make a great psp. That shit rocked hard.

I have both PSP and Vita. The Vita is a beautiful handheld to use and to look at. The primary issue is the custom memory cards, the second was the bundled Sony apps were awful. I prefer the Vita for gaming over PSP.

 

[Hudo]

They should just focus on their one device: Playstation 5 and work on making that good and work on having a steady and varied supply of first-party games, which is something they still need to work a lot on.
They can't even properly give a shit about PSVR2. Playstation, with the current state and configuration, are a one-device company. Nothing bad about it. But they should at least strive to be in top shape, which they aren't, imho.

 

[Shubh_C63]

Yeah this is so not happening.

 

[ArtHands]

Imagine Sony trying to carve out a success with a handheld

 

[yurinka]

This is clearly where the battle is going. Once digital purchases went mainstream, companies don't see a need to tie themselves to physical disks and their proprietary box. Microsoft and Sony are gunning to eat Valve's lunch. Each of the big platforms is trying to maintain their own little fiefdom. You have PC gamers who built up their libraries in Steam, and are staying put. You have Playstation fans that built up their libraries (and PS+ free games) for years, they aren't moving. And now you have Microsoft that has been testing the waters but finally taking the plunge.

As a PC gamer, I don't see any compelling reason to switch platforms right now. But my guess is that we are going to see the same shit that the movie/tv streaming industry pulled, where everybody wants control of their products exclusively through their own stores, and push their mandatory accounts and launchers.

The thing is: imagine Sony releases their PS PC store featuring cross-buy + cross-save + cross-play + shared trophies + shared friendlist and chat between their PC and PS stores.

PC players will see that if they buy a game there also have it on PS and vicecersa: if bought some of these games in PS also will have it on PC. Plus will have the trophies and PS friends there, plus being able to continue their progress when swapping between PS home console and PC(including PC handhelds).

If Sony uses crossbuy and cross-save only for PC on their own PC PSN store, their library and userbase could be a massive asset and weapon against Steam. This, mixed with the huge popularity of Sony games and the massive support they have with 3rd parties could make PC PSN the first serious contender for Steam.

 

[Boy bawang]

No one really asked for that. A portable PS4 would get trounced by the next switch.
Sony is already spread thin, I'd really prefer if they focused on the PS5.

 

[Boy bawang]

Do people honestly think a Switch 2 will be the equivalent of a PS5/XSX? So why would that be a problem for a new PS portable?

We know pretty accurately what the next switch will be, and we have since March 2022 and the Nvidia hack.
12SMs conservatively clocked in dock mode and 12Gb of RAM gives you 2/3 of a series S. If you factor DLSS and superior RTX performance, you can get something competitive with a series S. Which makes sense for a machine releasing 5 years later, and considering that the series S was already outdated on release.

 

[Dr. Wilkinson]

This… sounds off. I’m sure Sony is exploring a handheld. But to play only old games? Nah. That’s not their style.

 

[saintjules]

No "waste of resources" talk for this one?

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

Mibu no ookami Either stay on topic or put me on Ignore if you're so afraid of a dissenting opinion that doesn't lick the taint of every decision a platform holder might be making. Otherwise I'm not dignifying a response that keeps running to "lolz ur postz qualiteeez" as if that's a legitimate response to the topic at hand.

No one really asked for that. A portable PS4 would get trounced by the next switch.
Sony is already spread thin, I'd really prefer if they focused on the PS5.

I think it's a good idea in theory. In practice tho, considering it may not get many current-gen games that aren't GAAS or sports titles, and might require more work from devs to optimize a build that can run games targeting PS5 spec on it, that already presents a complication.

So with no guarantee it'd get all or even most current-gen releases (at least Day 1), the likelihood SIE's own 1P studios don't have cross-gen games in the works anymore (outside of MLB and continued support for GT7), the price has to be right. I mainly see it as a device to get current PS4 owners into the PS5 hardware ecosystem, but those types are going to be more price-sensitive.

In other words this thing can't be more than $299, it'd need to have full PS4 native support, PS4 Pro-level performance with some dock attachment, and likely phase out the Portal. Or, market it as a Portal that can natively play PS4 games, even though the selling point of the portal is to stream PS5 games.

Some people don't like me bringing up the SEGA comparison but I do think that's an inherent risk with all this different gaming hardware coming from Sony in such a short span of time. PS5, PSVR2, PS Portal, maybe a PS4 Portable or PS Portal 2....

A PS6-based portable would be a lot more interesting at this point, IMO. And, easier to market for clarity as a complementary or companion device to the PS6.

The thing is: imagine Sony releases their PS PC store featuring cross-buy + cross-save + cross-play + shared trophies + shared friendlist and chat between their PC and PS stores.

PC players will see that if they buy a game there also have it on PS and vicecersa: if bought some of these games in PS also will have it on PC. Plus will have the trophies and PS friends there, plus being able to continue their progress.

If Sony uses crossbuy and cross-save only on PS, their library and userbase could be a massive asset and weapon against Steam. This, mixed with the huge popularity of Sony games and the massive support they have with 3rd parties could make PC PSN the first serious contender for Steam.

You've mentioned this before, but I'll ask the same question now as back then: how does Sony implement cross-buy without negatively impacting their software revenue or profits? Cross-buy as you describe it, which is basically how Xbox does it, eliminates the double-dip incentive. A lot of people dislike it, but the way I see it, even without a financial argument, double-dipping can be useful in development of additional content and features for platforms where the game releases later, and that overall adds to the game experience over time. I don't think a division focused on profit margin improvements like SIE are going to cut into software revenue and profits with wholesale cross-buy, especially if they don't think most 3P publishers will follow suit.

Or also, if they feel them doing so would pressure 3P partners into a business model they'd rather not do. SIE still have to consider things related to what 3P partners might want, after all. I suggested it would be better if a person buying the game on one platform get a discount towards getting a version on another platform within the ecosystem. If Sony get their cloud gaming stuff going at wider scale, they can also apply this towards cloud versions of games on supported platforms like mobile which may not have native versions of those games available on them.

The other stuff tho, like shared continued progress (and I guess tropies), would make sense to do and would probably be expected at this point. They (Sony) would need more than what you're suggesting to really contest Steam, though. And I'd argue the things they really need (integrated community forums, a better refund policy, transparent game engagement metrics & tracking, better mod support etc.), should be prioritized for their console hardware, not a PC launcher. At least, not for a good while.

 

[LavitzSlambert]

The thing is: imagine Sony releases their PS PC store featuring cross-buy + cross-save + cross-play + shared trophies + shared friendlist and chat between their PC and PS stores.

PC players will see that if they buy a game there also have it on PS and vicecersa: if bought some of these games in PS also will have it on PC. Plus will have the trophies and PS friends there, plus being able to continue their progress.

If Sony uses crossbuy and cross-save only on PS, their library and userbase could be a massive asset and weapon against Steam. This, mixed with the huge popularity of Sony games and the massive support they have with 3rd parties could make PC PSN the first serious contender for Steam.

Sony definitely has the best shot at being a true competitor in the space, for the reasons you mentioned. There is one big problem that I see, and that is how Sony charges for PS+ for online play/cloud saves. Let's say they release their games on PC, using a PSN launcher. Are they going to charge for online play/cloud saves or make it free? If they didn't, would they also be releasing the game on Steam/sold by another launcher? Or if it was exclusive to PC PSN, would they dare make you subscribe? There isn't a straightforward answer that would treat their console and PC player base the same, without being inferior to what they're already offering by selling their games on Steam. I know you are saying they can utilize their PS player base, but how would that impact their existing PC player base who have bought Sony games on Steam and do not need to sign into a PSN account? It's very messy.

 

[Dorfdad]

Someone smarter than me tell me what the point of this is. We are halfway through the PS5 generation, forget the Pro, the PS6 is inching closer and they are making a handheld to run games from 2 gens ago? Huh?

Switch says hello! It’s like 3 gens behind and outselling everything. You don’t think Sony can handle two platforms? A portable and a dedicated gaming console? I say this will be the 2nd pillar for the ps6 platform. Dedicated / handheld / and cloud streaming

 

[yurinka]

You've mentioned this before, but I'll ask the same question now as back then: how does Sony implement cross-buy without negatively impacting their software revenue or profits? Cross-buy as you describe it, which is basically how Xbox does it, eliminates the double-dip incentive. A lot of people dislike it, but the way I see it, even without a financial argument, double-dipping can be useful in development of additional content and features for platforms where the game releases later, and that overall adds to the game experience over time. I don't think a division focused on profit margin improvements like SIE are going to cut into software revenue and profits with wholesale cross-buy, especially if they don't think most 3P publishers will follow suit.

Before MS copied it, Sony did crossbuy like that between their digital PSP, Vita, PSP, PS3, PS4 and PS5 games. In normal games was up to the publisher if to enable it. But in all PSP titles apply for Vita, in all PS4 titles applly for PS5, and in all PS Classics apply to all platforms where they are available (excluding the Ps2 ones due to being different SKUs/having extra features in PS4). So maybe as MS did, they can also include it in PC too when releasing their own store (maybe not mandatory to increase the amount of 3rd parties supporting their store).

We know that the percentage of console players (not only PS, also including Switch and Xbox) who also play on PC is pretty small, and the percentage of PC players who also play in console is even smaller. So the double dippers must be even a smaller percentage, so the amount of money lost would be tiny. Pretty likely it would be more than compensating by the extra sales caused because of implementing this feature ("I buy it in PSN instead on in Steam because by doing so I can also play it on PS" mindset).

Or also, if they feel them doing so would pressure 3P partners into a business model they'd rather not do. SIE still have to consider things related to what 3P partners might want, after all. I suggested it would be better if a person buying the game on one platform get a discount towards getting a version on another platform within the ecosystem. If Sony get their cloud gaming stuff going at wider scale, they can also apply this towards cloud versions of games on supported platforms like mobile which may not have native versions of those games available on them.

The other stuff tho, like shared continued progress (and I guess tropies), would make sense to do and would probably be expected at this point. They (Sony) would need more than what you're suggesting to really contest Steam, though. And I'd argue the things they really need (integrated community forums, a better refund policy, transparent game engagement metrics & tracking, better mod support etc.), should be prioritized for their console hardware, not a PC launcher. At least, not for a good while.

In fact what they could do is to use that same PC PSN store for their PS6 home consoles: a single PSN for all platforms. If you want to release a PS6 game, you are also releasing it for their PC store, and viceversa: if you publish on their PC PSN store you must also support both PS6s (their home console and their PC handheld).

3rd parties would see it as the store with the biggest userbase and the one where many 3rd parties sell the most, as currently is the case for most of them, but now expanded to feature more players from PC.

Almost nobody uses the community forums and (even if I love it) transparent tracking stuff, so I think won't implement it even if I consider that would be cool. And publishers prefer a more strict refund policy as the one done in console, one thing publishers and devs hate from Steam is that they lose on average 10-20% of the sales via refunds. In console people gets refunded when they deserve so (because your game doesn't work / has some really important issue, not because you're an entitled whiny folk who wants to get games for free or thinks you must get refunded if the game isn't good enough for you).

But how would that impact their existing PC player base who have bought Sony games on Steam and do not need to sign into a PSN account? It's very messy.

In case it doesn't cause an issue with Valve, they could give you a PSN copy of the game if you bought it in Steam and linked there your PSN account. And after a few years, once Sony grows enough their PC PSN store userbase and catalog, Sony could stop selling their games on Steam.

Switch says hello! It’s like 3 gens behind and outselling everything. You don’t think Sony can handle two platforms? A portable and a dedicated gaming console? I say this will be the 2nd pillar for the ps6 platform. Dedicated / handheld / and cloud streaming

I'd include there PC and mobile. I'd bet their motto will be "one PSN for all platforms": buy the game/addon once in PSN and play it in any PSN supporting device using the same user account: PS home console, PS portable, PC, mobile or cloud.

 

[Setsuna Mudou]

old rumor, but yeah...

 

[Madjako]

Here is a picture of the coming device :

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