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[CrocMother]

http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKCN10X18O

Judge in Texas blocks the rule hours before schools start back up for the year. Another shameful episode for my home state, although other states eere involved as well.

Woukd have allowed students to use the bathrooms that conformed with their gender identity.

Reuters) - A U.S. judge blocked Obama administration guidance that transgender public school students must be allowed to use bathrooms of their choice, granting a nationwide injunction sought by a group of 13 states led by Texas.
Reed O'Connor, a judge for the Northern District of Texas, said in a decision late on Sunday that the Obama administration did not follow proper procedures for notice and comment in issuing the guidelines. He said the guidelines contradict with existing legislative and regulatory texts.
...
The office of Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton, a Republican who frequently sues the Democratic Obama administration, said he was pleased with a decision against "illegal federal overreach."

At a hearing on the injunction in Fort Worth on Aug. 12, lawyers for Texas said the guidelines usurp the authority of school districts nationwide. They said they were at risk of losing billions of dollars in federal funding for education if they did not comply.

It's assumed Obama will ask a other court to overturn the ruling.

Would also like to add that Ken Paxton is a skid mark.

 

[Link]

Of course it's Texas.

 

[Easy_D]

Usurps the authority of school districts that are legally bound to follow the law, OK. I'm sure there's a school or two okay with transgender rules, this vote usurped their authority.

 

[AuthenticM]

How can a Texas court have jurisdiction in other states?

 

[EdibleKnife]

We continue to let that transphobia fester, huh?

 

[CrocMother]

How can a Texas court have jurisdiction in other states?

It's a federal judge.

Usurps the authority of school districts that are legally bound to follow the law, OK. I'm sure there's a school or two okay with transgender rules, this vote usurped their authority.

Schools can still follow the directive, this just removes the punishment for those that refuse to.

 

[DragonSworne]

The party of fiscal responsible continues to waste money and make people's lives more miserable.

Why can't these shitstained judges be removed and banned?

 

[gcubed]

The party of fiscal responsible continues to waste money and make people's lives more miserable.

Why can't these shitstained judges be removed and banned?

I'll wait to see if Obama actually filed the rule changes correctly. While he can get hammered on a technicality, he should know better.

 

[Sesuadra]

Horrible judge..I just can't understand what is going on in his mind.

 

[Zoe]

Can't say I'm too bothered by this. The adults who want to fight the mandate are scum, but it's the kids who would suffer with the loss of funding.

 

[Derwind]

I cant for the day when these same schools discuss this in history class remembering how proud a good many GOP were when it came to treating minorities like second class citizens and just generally being bigoted & backwards as fuck.

Ken Paxton is just one shit stain on the toilet seat of modern republican history.

 

[Kthulhu]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but haven't most schools already agreed to the new bathroom rules?

 

[CrocMother]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but haven't most schools already agreed to the new bathroom rules?

Yes most schools are fine with it, and this doesn't prevent them from employing them. It's just a dozen red states that are fighting this. They don't get their funding cut for not following the Obama directive, but trans students are effectively still being discriminated against.

 

[CyberMiguel]

Don't trans people decide they are trans (and go with the surgery and all) when they are fully adults and without 3rd party interventions? If that's so, how could there be any school with trans rules?

Sure, I've heard of colleges and even work places with special rules and all because there are no kids in them and everyone are responsible adults.

Anyway, I'm not one for judging, but I've always believed bathrooms are/were designed with one rule in mind: do you have a penis? if so, there are bathrooms with urinals. If not, there are bathrooms without urinals. Quite simple, really. xD

 

[IvanJ]

Don't trans people decide they are trans (and go with the surgery and all) when they are fully adults and without 3rd party interventions? If that's so, how could there be any school with trans rules?

Sure, I've heard of colleges and even work places with special rules and all because there are no kids in them and everyone are responsible adults.

Anyway, I'm not one for judging, but I've always believed bathrooms are/were designed with one rule in mind: do you have a penis? if so, there are bathrooms with urinals. If not, there are bathrooms without urinals. Quite simple, really. xD

I am no expert, but I think nobody decides that they are trans.

 

[CyberMiguel]

I am no expert, but I think nobody decides that they are trans.

Obviously. What I meant by deciding is to go with the operation and the hormones, since those are dangerous treatments and require a great ammount of responsibility from the patient.

 

[Ryuukan]

Anyway, I'm not one for judging, but I've always believed bathrooms are/were designed with one rule in mind: do you have a penis? if so, there are bathrooms with urinals. If not, there are bathrooms without urinals. Quite simple, really. xD

this kinda sounds like you're telling trans women to just use the mens room

while making an xD face at them

 

[CrocMother]

Don't trans people decide they are trans (and go with the surgery and all) when they are fully adults and without 3rd party interventions? If that's so, how could there be any school with trans rules?

Sure, I've heard of colleges and even work places with special rules and all because there are no kids in them and everyone are responsible adults.

Anyway, I'm not one for judging, but I've always believed bathrooms are/were designed with one rule in mind: do you have a penis? if so, there are bathrooms with urinals. If not, there are bathrooms without urinals. Quite simple, really. xD

No, the way it works now in these places is that kids are forced to conform to a gender they don't identify as. Imagine if you were forced to use the girls bathroom (assuming you're cis male) and you get an idea of how traumatizing it can be for trans kids.

Bullying/suicide rates are depressingly high but these politicians never talk about that.

 

[Derwind]

Don't trans people decide they are trans (and go with the surgery and all) when they are fully adults and without 3rd party interventions? If that's so, how could there be any school with trans rules?

Sure, I've heard of colleges and even work places with special rules and all because there are no kids in them and everyone are responsible adults.

Anyway, I'm not one for judging, but I've always believed bathrooms are/were designed with one rule in mind: do you have a penis? if so, there are bathrooms with urinals. If not, there are bathrooms without urinals. Quite simple, really. xD

Have you for even a moment sat yourself down and decided whether your Trans or not?

Because if was just a decision, we probably would have a lot more wonderful people still alive that we've lost to bigotry & hate of others.

I don't know at what age one becomes aware of their gender identity (and I imagine it's different for everyone) but I think inclusion should be taught and safe spaces created as early as possible for the health of child development.

 

[rokkerkory]

Aren't judges here NOT to interpret the law of the land based on their own biases?

 

[CyberMiguel]

this kinda sounds like you're telling trans women to just use the mens room

while making an xD face at them

Sure. It's practical and more hygenic. Heck, every single woman I've met has complained about their inability to use urinals and to expose themselves to infections and who-knows-what germs on public toilets.

Why do people make such a fuss over a simple thing?

 

[IvanJ]

Obviously. What I meant by deciding is to go with the operation and the hormone treatments, since those are dangerous treatments.

You seem to have a misconception about them.
All I know is what I have read or watched, but beingbtrans is not immediately followed by gender reassignment. It is a....feeling?...state of mind?...behavior?...in which a person does not feel like it belongs as a person of certain gender they were born as.

But it would be best if either you read up on it a bit, or if someone here who can explain it better does so.

 

[Hollycat]

Sure. It's practical and more hygenic. Heck, every single woman I've met has complained about their inability to use urinals and to expose themselves to infections and who-knows-what germs on public toilets.

Why do people make such a fuss over a simple thing?

Because people don't want to use the wrong bathroom, especially when there's a significant chance of harassment or physical harm. I assure you, as a woman I have no desire to use a Mens restroom.

In short: it's about the person, not their genitals

 

[CyberMiguel]

You seem to have a misconception about them.
All I know is what I have read or watched, but beingbtrans is not immediately followed by gender reassignment. It is a....feeling?...state of mind?...behavior?...in which a person does not feel like it belongs as a person of certain gender they were born as.

But it would be best if either you read up on it a bit, or if someone here who can explain it better does so.

True, I am probably misinformed, because for what I've read, trans applied to people that actually went with the gender reassignment treatment (surgery, hormones and all) and before that they were just in the limbo...you know... feeling something but not actually beign that.

 

[CrocMother]

True, I am probably misinformed, because for what I've read, trans applied to people that actually went with the gender reassignment treatment (surgery, hormones and all) and before that they were just in the limbo...you know... feeling something but not actually beign that.

Gender and genitals are separate and exclusive. One does not always predict the other. If you can understand that, it becomes a bit easier.

 

[asagami_]

True, I am probably misinformed, because for what I've read, trans applied to people that actually went with the gender reassignment treatment (surgery, hormones and all) and before that they were just in the limbo...you know... feeling something but not actually beign that.

It's called transgender for one reason. I would guess it's most emotionally and psychology thing, and I talk from experience, because I'm one and I don't feel the need of surgery, but other maybe want or need it and it's fine.

 

[mollipen]

Anyway, I'm not one for judging, but I've always believed bathrooms are/were designed with one rule in mind: do you have a penis? if so, there are bathrooms with urinals. If not, there are bathrooms without urinals. Quite simple, really. xD

I know it's a pretty small example, but my avatar is me. I haven't had that particular surgery yet. Looking like that, how would things go down if I walked into a men's room and used a urinal at this point?

The locker room issue is a whole other thing, and that's a point where what I have downstairs can directly come into play. For bathrooms, though, people are never going to see my genitalia during the entire process—they're going to see how I look in general, and that's going to cause way more chaos than what is caused when I use the women's restroom (which is none). Plus, you have "worst case scenarios" that range from a guy seeing a woman walk in and take advantage of that, to a guy seeing a trans woman wall in who hates people like me and is ready to do something about it.

Luckily, I don't have to worry about all of this, because all of my bathroom usage is totally without incident. But, a lot of people don't actually think about what would actually happen if trans people did just use the bathroom their genitals dictate.

As for this ruling, doesn't bother me too much. It's a step that has to happen in the history of things getting better for trans people. The part I find funny is this wasn't even an issue a year or two ago, and things were progressing without anyone caring.

 

[Zoe]

Aren't judges here NOT to interpret the law of the land based on their own biases?

Did he use his own bias? The reasoning was because it didn't follow procedure.

 

[Eusis]

True, I am probably misinformed, because for what I've read, trans applied to people that actually went with the gender reassignment treatment (surgery, hormones and all) and before that they were just in the limbo...you know... feeling something but not actually beign that.

Hormones tend to be the part that matters most, being more accessible and affecting your brain, positively in many cases which is one of the more reliable barometers of being trans (Your brain really is wired in the ways it matter for identity to be the opposite sex). Surgery for genitals is pricy and risky, so many may settle for skipping on that.

 

[Hollycat]

True, I am probably misinformed, because for what I've read, trans applied to people that actually went with the gender reassignment treatment (surgery, hormones and all) and before that they were just in the limbo...you know... feeling something but not actually beign that.

Yeah.. thats wrong.
There are plenty of children who are transgender. And being transgender is being the gender. You may not match physically or be able to take medication for whatever reason, but that doesn't change who they are.

Speaking as someone who knows plenty of trans people, I can assure you it's not just a feeling, it's a built in part of them.
All we anyone can do is support and accept them as the gender they really are on the inside, which is what is so gross about rulings like this. There are plenty of people who want to pretend trans people don't exist, even if that means forcing them to suffer or costing them the help and acceptance they need.

 

[Beerman462]

Does this include locker rooms as well? Also has any other country done this? Like is there an example to follow? Seems crazy that we are legislating bathroom use on both sides now. I guess I never heard about this until it became a political talking point. I just assumed that Trans people used what ever bathroom they felt comfortable using. I've seen the pictures here on GAF of transmen and women that look like their chosen identity and would not be questioned using the bathroom associated with that identity. I mean this law basically says you can't harass people using their chosen bathroom right? Why can't we just go with that for now and if someone is trying to abuse it deal with it then.

 

[Foffy]

My question may seem weird, but I was curious in asking this anyway.

Would these schools even entertain the notion of a unisex bathroom? Where I work, all of the bathrooms are unisex, so the topic of gender is literally a non-issue.

 

[KingBroly]

Does this include locker rooms as well? Also has any other country done this? Like is there an example to follow? Seems crazy that we are legislating bathroom use on both sides now. I guess I never heard about this until it became a political talking point. I just assumed that Trans people used what ever bathroom they felt comfortable using. I've seen the pictures here on GAF of transmen and women that look like their chosen identity and would not be questioned using the bathroom associated with that identity. I mean this law basically says you can't harass people using their chosen bathroom right? Why can't we just go with that for now and if someone is trying to abuse it deal with it then.

Um...I would think locker rooms/showers are treated the same since they should have bathrooms in them. But I dunno how schools have changed over the last decade plus.

And technicalities are killer in the court of law.

 

[Hollycat]

Does this include locker rooms as well? Also has any other country done this? Like is there an example to follow? Seems crazy that we are legislating bathroom use on both sides now. I guess I never heard about this until it became a political talking point. I just assumed that Trans people used what ever bathroom they felt comfortable using. I've seen the pictures here on GAF of transmen and women that look like their chosen identity and would not be questioned using the bathroom associated with that identity. I mean this law basically says you can't harass people using their chosen bathroom right? Why can't we just go with that for now and if someone is trying to abuse it deal with it then.

They did just use the bathroom they wanted to, never causing any incidents on their own. With the rising acceptance of trans people and them feeling more comfortable about being out, it feels like this is just the new "evil" thing people are latching onto now that the gay marriage debate is pretty much over.
Some people don't want trans people to be accepted or treated equally. There doesn't seem to be much logic behind it beyond "protect muh childrins"

 

[CrocMother]

My question may seem weird, but I was curious in asking this anyway.

Would these schools even entertain the notion of a unisex bathroom? Where I work, all of the bathrooms are unisex, so the topic of gender is literally a non-issue.

I'm assuming you mean individual unisex bathrooms? That is a solution but is under the "separate but equal" category of dealing with things. Schools can't afford to have individual bathrooms for everyone, and we just aren't ready as a society for multiperson unisex bathrooms.

 

[Eye for an Eye]

Transgender usually starts as a small child, but it is surpressed by family members and the community until the person is an adult (at least for generations past).

Here's one mother fighting the ruling for her five year old trans daughter.
http://abc13.com/news/mom-of-transgender-child-fights-for-bathroom-privilege/1463714/

Jazz Jennings also started living as a girl at the age of five and she's now in her teens. She had a couple of interviews with Barbara Walters on 20/20 that are worth a watch.

 

[Irishmantis]

I don't know what the big deal is, let them use what Barhroom they want, it's hardly they are swinging their downstairs for everybody to see when they get a chance lol.

In.anyway wow I never knew a child is born a transgender, that's interesting, it seems these discriminating places have the mentality that transgender people just wake up one day and say "fuck it I want to be a girl for the lols,so I can secretly see other naked girls in a locker room"

 

[gcubed]

Um...I would think locker rooms/showers are treated the same since they should have bathrooms in them. But I dunno how schools have changed over the last decade plus.

And technicalities are killer in the court of law.

no, locker rooms are not included in this

 

[IvanJ]

I don't know what the big deal is, let them use what Barhroom they want, it's hardly they are swinging their downstairs for everybody to see when they get a chance lol.

In.anyway wow I never knew a child is born a transgender, that's interesting, it seems these discriminating places have the mentality that transgender people just wake up one day and say "fuck it I want to be a girl for the lols,so I can secretly see other naked girls in a locker room"

On the money:
http://www.businessinsider.com/mike-huckabee-i-wish-i-could-have-pretended-to-be-transgender-2015-6

 

[Alucrid]

Don't trans people decide they are trans (and go with the surgery and all) when they are fully adults and without 3rd party interventions? If that's so, how could there be any school with trans rules?

Sure, I've heard of colleges and even work places with special rules and all because there are no kids in them and everyone are responsible adults.

Anyway, I'm not one for judging, but I've always believed bathrooms are/were designed with one rule in mind: do you have a penis? if so, there are bathrooms with urinals. If not, there are bathrooms without urinals. Quite simple, really. xD

my bathroom at home doesn't have a urinal. i have a penis.

do i just piss in the kitchen sink now? please help

 

[Pizoxuat]

Depending on the family and the medical team they seek out, trans kids are sometimes put on hormone blockers to delay puberty. Puberty with the wrong body can be traumatic for trans kids. The hormone blockers give them time to decide what procedures, if any, they want to go through.

 

[Beerman462]

They did just use the bathroom they wanted to, never causing any incidents on their own. With the rising acceptance of trans people and them feeling more comfortable about being out, it feels like this is just the new "evil" thing people are latching onto now that the gay marriage debate is pretty much over.
Some people don't want trans people to be accepted or treated equally. There doesn't seem to be much logic behind it beyond "protect muh childrins"

Seems like it could be a problem in locker rooms. Especially when you're dealing with teenagers. Bathrooms are one thing, because they have stalls that offer some privacy/security. Most locker rooms are open and you disrobe in front of everyone. I think a lot of kids are pretty open minded today, but teenagers in general are very insecure about their bodies. I'm not sure how you handle trans usage in that case. Obviously sticking a transgirl in a room full of cis guys isn't going to work either. Unless locker rooms in highscools have drastically changed and have changing stalls or what ever now. I will say I was in band and we would go to competitions and the guys and girls all changed in one room and no one had a problem with it although that's not for everyone.

my bathroom at home doesn't have a urinal. i have a penis.

do i just piss in the kitchen sink now? please help

Pee in the shower.

 

[Alucrid]

Seems like it could be a problem in locker rooms. Especially when you're dealing with teenagers. Bathrooms are one thing, because they have stalls that offer some privacy/security. Most locker rooms are open and you disrobe in front of everyone. I think a lot of kids are pretty open minded today, but teenagers in general are very insecure about their bodies. I'm not sure how you handle trans usage in that case. Obviously sticking a transgirl in a room full of cis guys isn't going to work either. Unless locker rooms in highscools have drastically changed and have changing stalls or what ever now. I will say I was in band and we would go to competitions and the guys and girls all changed in one room and no one had a problem with it although that's not for everyone.



Pee in the shower.

the shower is in the bathroom which isn't for me apparently. i really need to go. where is cybermiguel

 

[CyberMiguel]

It's called transgender for one reason. I would guess it's most emotionally and psychology thing, and I talk from experience, because I'm one and I don't feel the need of surgery, but other maybe want or need it and it's fine.

Thanks for the tip.

Anyway, I think the issue here is another thing and it's integration and education. Why the hell would a trans have to feel "uncomfortable" on a men's bathroom if he has the parts to actually use it?

I was bullied throughout my entire school life because of my ASD and I personally know how that feels and it's because of that very reason that I don't believe in segregation, rather than integration and education.

The key is to make trans people as comfortable as anyone else to actually take advantage of the facilites as everyone else, without the fear of harassment, bullying or judgement. In that regard, bathroom policies, "safe havens" and stuff like that are just patches and shouldn't even exist if kids are educated in tolerance and integration.

Sadly, in America (and I mean from Alaska all the way down to Tierra del Fuego) we're waaaaay behing in that aspect.

 

[Eusis]

the shower is in the bathroom which isn't for me apparently. i really need to go. where is cybermiguel

Put the seat up, bam instant male restroom.

 

[CyberMiguel]

my bathroom at home doesn't have a urinal. i have a penis.

do i just piss in the kitchen sink now? please help

Hahaha...mine neither, but I trust it since I keep it clean af (I'd even say pristine). I'm a bit obsessed with cleanness in that regard. xD

 

[Hollycat]

Thanks for the tip.

Anyway, I think the issue here is another thing and it's integration and education. Why the hell would a trans have to feel "uncomfortable" on a men's bathroom if he has the parts to actually use it?

I was bullied throughout my entire school life because of my ASD and I personally know how that feels and it's because of that very reason that I don't believe in segregation, rather than integration and education.

The key is to make trans people as comfortable as anyone else to actually take advantage of the facilites as everyone else, without the fear of harassment, bullying or judgement. In that regard, bathroom policies, "safe havens" and stuff like that are just patches and shouldn't even exist if kids are educated in tolerance and integration.

Sadly, in America (and I mean from Alaska all the way down to Tierra del Fuego) we're waaaaay behing in that aspect.

Because they aren't a he. A trans woman is female.
Would you ask an intersex person with both sets of genitals to use the men's restroom simply because they have a penis?

I'll answer more in depth at home.

Also, they aren't "a trans". They are a transgender person. You could also say trans man or trans woman. Transgender isn't a noun.

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

Because they aren't a he. A trans woman is female.
Would you ask an intersex person with both sets of genitals to use the men's restroom simply because they have a penis?

I'll answer more in depth at home.

Also, they aren't "a trans". They are a transgender person. You could also say trans man or trans woman. Transgender isn't a noun.

Yeah, and what does have the parts to use it even mean? I don't need a separate bathroom at home and I can still physically use a woman's restroom a man. I don't understand this crap of hardware to use the things in each bathroom. A toilet is a toilet. Don't get this line of thinking at all...

I don't know what the big deal is, let them use what Barhroom they want, it's hardly they are swinging their downstairs for everybody to see when they get a chance lol.

In.anyway wow I never knew a child is born a transgender, that's interesting, it seems these discriminating places have the mentality that transgender people just wake up one day and say "fuck it I want to be a girl for the lols,so I can secretly see other naked girls in a locker room"

They actually do have that mentality, they're called Republicans. Apparently they're all closet sexual predators that were solely stopped because they're not allowed to go to the girl's bathroom.

 

[mollipen]

Thanks for the tip.

Anyway, I think the issue here is another thing and it's integration and education. Why the hell would a trans have to feel "uncomfortable" on a men's bathroom if he has the parts to actually use it?

I explained that up in big post I responded to you to earlier.

 

[Metaphoreus]

no, locker rooms are not included in this

Yes, locker rooms are included in this. Here's a link to the order for anyone interested in reading it for themselves. Note that the judge not only found that the administration's rule violated the Administrative Procedures Act, but also that the rule contradicted the law it was purportedly interpreting.