Support NeoGAF

[Hurf]

Is this a joke? They've been reacting since E3. Maybe earlier.

Yea I don't know what OP doesn't get about this.

What do you think the 180 was?

Microsoft lost this generation when they revealed the Xbone; everything they have done since then, both the positive steps like removing the DRM and the bullshit like buying third-party exclusivity and blatantly lying to consumers, has been a reactionary attempt to mitigate the damage.

 

[twinturbo2]

MS had two other generations of not being in first place as practice. They'll be fine. Really this is the best thing that could have happened to an Xbox fan. It sucks now but the next console will probably go back to the power before all mantra. It should hopefully inspire them to make more new IPs as well since Xbox exclusives can't look better on PS4. As happy as we all are with the PS4, it wouldn't exist as it does without the PS3 setting a bad example early on.

Sometimes you gotta take some hits and learn from it. Sony did. Now it's MS's turn. I just hope that they don't panic already, that would be the worst thing ever.

 

[sono]

They need to drop the price a lot - to less than PS4 it is a less powerful console..

They need more exclusives.

I cant see how they can un-bundle kinect it would be a 180 too far

 

[pahlke92]

They have already damaged their integrity...why worry about damaging it more.

 

[statham]

They need to drop the price a lot - to less than PS4 it is a less powerful console..

They need more exclusives.

They have the better exclusives right now and for awhile and the console can do things the PS4 cannot do. But they need to close the gap in price. IMO, price drop to $449 and include Kinect Rivals to showcase Kinect.

 

[uncledonnie]

They have the better exclusives right now and for awhile and the console can do things the PS4 cannot do. But they need to close the gap in price. IMO, price drop to $449 and include Kinect Rivals to showcase Kinect.

I could see that closing the gap a bit but it's not enough. They need to be at the same pricepoint or they'll be consistently outsold even in the US.

 

[Biker19]

If I were MS I would be releasing a new SKU With GDDR5, no kinect and a beefed up APU and hand out 4 million trade vouchers for people who already bought the system.

No way the X1 will survive 6 more years of engine enhancements while struggling with standard last gen ports and having to go down to 720p for most newer engines. Will be unimaginable what they may be forcing devs to do even 2 years from now.

The trade would essentially be what they did with the replacement program for busted 360s. But do it fast while you only have maybe 4,000,000 to replace and not 10,000,000 at the end of next year.

They can't, they're stuck with whatever hardware that they got inside of the console for the next 6 years. Plus there may not even be a 4th Xbox console, with the way that things are going on with their investors about the Xbox brand.

 

[IAmRandom31]

They have the better exclusives right now and for awhile and the console can do things the PS4 cannot do. But they need to close the gap in price. IMO, price drop to $449 and include Kinect Rivals to showcase Kinect.

And even that is highly debatable. I personally would take the added games of Warframe and Blacklight and DCOU along with the exclusives like Don't Starve, Warframe, Res0gun, Killzone, etc. , Over single games like a Dead Rising 3 and Killer Instinct. The PS4 already had a huge lineup of games you can't find on the X1, and will only grow much larger soon.

Warframe alone man, high quality, not on X1 yet or for awhile yet.

 

[Dragonborn]

They have the better exclusives right now and for awhile and the console can do things the PS4 cannot do. But they need to close the gap in price. IMO, price drop to $449 and include Kinect Rivals to showcase Kinect.

That's highly subjective and given the sales disparity between the consoles, it seems people prefer PS4.

I'll agree the X1 had a better launch lineup but going forward there 's not much beyond the usual cycle (Halo, Forza this year, Halo/Forza/Fable next year, Gears/Forza the year after) along with QB and SO.

 

[N.Domixis]

They have the better exclusives right now and for awhile and the console can do things the PS4 cannot do. But they need to close the gap in price. IMO, price drop to $449 and include Kinect Rivals to showcase Kinect.

That wont last long, so ps4 is the way to for now.

 

[Hubble]

I think time this gen battle is much more important than previous gens. I expect MS to respond quickly and with a pricecut at e3.

 

[funkystudent]

Maybe MS will use E3 as a way to sort of relauch the Xbox One brand a bit.

New cheaper Kinect-less SKU.
New image and marketing style.
The Year of Halo.
That rumoured League of Legends port finally shows up.
Some new 3rd party deals.

I feel like I have been expecting MS to go nuts with the moneyhats and buy GTA or something bonkers since last year and it hasn't happened yet so I dont know.

 

[artist]

They need to drop the price a lot - to less than PS4 it is a less powerful console..

They need more exclusives.

I cant see how they can un-bundle kinect it would be a 180 too far

I agree with this. Kinect-less at $299 and it would tie the PS4. I'm not sure how many people are willing to overlook the amount of crap they tried to spin though.

 

[lovely ladies]

Wish they would drop the gold requirement for streaming services purely for personal reasons.

 

[KnockOneOff]

You drunk? Xbox has been out only 4 months, it's only launched in certain countries, there is around a £100 price difference

Do you realize microsofts marketing budget for the years ahead

Very long way to go yet

 

[TyrantII]

I got a feeling a Titanfall isn't going to sell a lot of new consoles, but will have huge attach rates with already sold consoles, XB1 and 360 respectively. April / May when that becomes apparent, look for "oh shit" button to get pressed.


MS is very worried about it too. Hense the political move to delay the 360 version by 2 weeks and forgo any head to head comparisons.

 

[Hubble]

Honestly, Kinect is the only thing the XO has going for it with crappy hardware. MS should take the hit and keep Kinect in the hopes it will differentiate the console over the PS4 in time with Skype, Dance games, Xbox Fitness, etc.

However, in taking the hit, they should price the system cheaper than PS4. It should be 349.99 acknowledging cheaper hardware and throw in the Kinect to compensate. No one is buying a Xbox One for a Kinect, so Microsoft needs to accept that and include it.

 

[Duxxy3]

Maybe MS will use E3 as a way to sort of relauch the Xbox One brand a bit.

New cheaper Kinect-less SKU.
New image and marketing style.
The Year of Halo.
That rumoured League of Legends port finally shows up.
Some new 3rd party deals.

I feel like I have been expecting MS to go nuts with the moneyhats and buy GTA or something bonkers since last year and it hasn't happened yet so I dont know.

That would be big.

I think that they need to stay away from buying exclusives. It's just a short term solution for a long term problem.

 

[Ratros]

They can't, they're stuck with whatever hardware that they got inside of the console for the next 6 years. Plus there may not even be a 4th Xbox console, with the way that things are going on with their investors about the Xbox brand.

Exactly.

Sony is now actively preparing for the real "Cloud Gaming". Though it is "PlayStation Later" for now, this very technology will mature in the next 5-6 years. On the contrary, we haven't heard anything from Microsoft so far, except for the rumor that they successfully made Halo 4 up and running remotely months ago.

Spoiler

Microsoft has a bad reputation for delivering services on time. They showed the technology to run XBOX games simultaneously on three screens and a cloud years ago, which still lies in the library of Microsoft Research. Also, it takes them 3 yrs+ to figure out how to set up a mobile version of XBOX Live network, which still doesn't function normally.

And Microsoft has already been struggling on a lot of front lines, they may not be able to spare a lot resources onto the XBOX division like they did in 2005. Windows 8, Windows Phone and the Surface Tablet is in emergency, Bing hasn't gained any market share from Google in the past year and XBOX One is still suffering from an awful launch. I'm guessing that if things don't turn out well in the following years, there's a high chance that XBOX and/or Bing will be sold off.

 

[SwiftDeath]

You drunk? Xbox has been out only 4 months, it's only launched in certain countries, there is around a £100 price difference

Do you realize microsofts marketing budget for the years ahead

Very long way to go yet

• XB1 is now readily available in its main territores and still posted quite poor January numbers opposed to the PS4 that was supply constrained
• It has again launched in its key territories. No upcoming countries it will launch in share the same mindshare for Xbox as the US and UK did. It sold something like 60 - 65% of its consoles just in the US and UK and is now losing handily in the UK and losing steadily in the US.
• A 100 GBP price difference is massive when the consoles offer 90 - 95% of the same games with all the multiplats performing better on the 100 GBP cheaper system
• Marketing cannot save a product alone. See MS Xbox marketing in Spain which had a 20 million Euro budget and only resulted in 36K sales in Spain as of Jan. 31st, thus MS spent roughly 550 Euro per XB1 sold. That is in no way sustainable or practical advertising

 

[statham]

.

 

[avaya]

I can't believe people are calling this over after a few months. The XB1 is fine, outselling the massively successful 360.

Sony are off to a good start, let's see if it continues when they lose the price advantage. I seriously doubt it.

The bizarro world where MS can cost reduce their higher BOM and Sony can't cost reduce their lower BOM.

 

[Fedelias]

• XB1 is now readily available in its main territores and still posted quite poor January numbers opposed to the PS4 that was supply constrained
• It has again launched in its key territories. No upcoming countries it will launch in share the same mindshare for Xbox as the US and UK did. It sold something like 60 - 65% of its consoles just in the US and UK and is now losing handily in the UK and losing steadily in the US.
• A 100 GBP price difference is massive when the consoles offer 90 - 95% of the same games with all the multiplats performing better on the 100 GBP cheaper system
• Marketing cannot save a product alone. See MS Xbox marketing in Spain which had a 20 million Euro budget and only resulted in 36K sales in Spain as of Jan. 31st, thus MS spent roughly 550 Euro per XB1 sold. That is in no way sustainable or practical advertising

Fuck me, that bad? Spain's already a small market, why spend that much in the first place?

 

[KnockOneOff]

• XB1 is now readily available in its main territores and still posted quite poor January numbers opposed to the PS4 that was supply constrained
• It has again launched in its key territories. No upcoming countries it will launch in share the same mindshare for Xbox as the US and UK did. It sold something like 60 - 65% of its consoles just in the US and UK and is now losing handily in the UK and losing steadily in the US.
• A 100 GBP price differrence is massive when the consoles offer 90 - 95% of the same games with all the multiplats performing better on the 100 GBP cheaper system
• Marketing cannot save a product alone. See MS Xbox marketing in Spain which had a 20 million Euro budget and only resulted in 36K sales in Spain as of Jan. 31st, thus MS spent roughly 550 Euro per XB1 sold. That is in no way sustainable or practical advertising

Let's carry on this discussion in 12 months time

Once there first party titles start hitting you will see the 360 owners move over

And January sales, what you expecting from the month with people and no money? Going for the cheaper console!!

Of course ps4 were driven because no one could get hold of one, which makes people want one! Look at Wii to tell you that story

Xbox will be fine! It's Sony that needs to sell well to get some cash flow back in the business

 

[darkwing]

Fuck me, that bad? Spain's already a small market, why spend that much in the first place?

MS has a huge warchest, didn't they spend $400M for the NFL thingy? heck, they can buy Sony and Nintendo at the same time easily

 

[SwiftDeath]

Fuck me, that bad? Spain's already a small market, why spend that much in the first place?

180K PS4's sold in spain in the same time period so I wouldn't say it's an irrelevant market

Let's carry on this discussion in 12 months time

Once there first party titles start hitting you will see the 360 owners move over

And January sales, what you expecting from the month with people and no money? Going for the cheaper console!!

Of course ps4 were driven because no one could get hold of one, which makes people want one! Look at Wii to tell you that story

Xbox will be fine! It's Sony that needs to sell well to get some cash flow back in the business

I could see them in a better position in 12 months time with a price cut that's inevitable but they are in a really poor position currently. To sell half as much as your biggest competitor once past the holidays in your strongest territory when that competitor is strong in every other corner of the world is not a good thing and that is exactly what is happening.

Xbox will persevere, of that I have no doubt but I am curious if they break 50 million install base this gen and what internal projections MS had for profitability.

Sony is in poor straits but the PS4 is doing phenomenally well

 

[MCD]

After they are done with Windows Phone 8.1.

Belfiore is just one man.

 

[Heretic]

After they are done with Windows Phone 8.1.

BelfioreLastflowers is just one man.

Fixed.

 

[TrueCoins]

Something tells me Microsoft is the If your not first your last mentality. They are probably not happy being behind PS4 despite doing okay so far.

But i think it will be a blowout by the end to be honest.

 

[le.phat]

As some posters here have already said, everything MS has been doing lately is a response to the PS4. They are playing catch up now.

It´s very bad for the core gaming market if X1 flops as hard as the Wii U. Competition is needed - just look how well the PS4 turned out after the Xbox360 managed to tie or even win (depending on market) the PS3. The moment Sony does not have a competitor anymore is the moment they will start making less investments in their ecosystem...This industry needs at least a few successful platforms.

The ps2 er was incredible, are you thinking this through?

 

[Biker19]

Once there first party titles start hitting you will see the 360 owners move over

Except that it's not the 1st/2nd party titles that sells home gaming consoles nowadays; it's the multiplat games that do. And with multiplat games being more superior on PS4, Microsoft doesn't have an advantage in that area.

And January sales, what you expecting from the month with people and no money? Going for the cheaper console!!

It has little to do with "being poor" or "having no money." It has much to do with the fact that not many consumers will shell out more than $400 for a home gaming console, even if they do have a lot of money, because they have responsibilities like rent, grocery, bills, children (if they have any), etc. It also has to do with the fact that the console is very powerful & has better advertising.

Xbox will be fine! It's Sony that needs to sell well to get some cash flow back in the business

Just because that Microsoft has a lot more money than Sony, doesn't mean that they can easily take tons of losses, etc. like they could back in the original Xbox & the Xbox 360.

While MS can turn the tides in North America, everywhere else, they don't stand a chance. Also, I suggest reading Beyus's post for more info.

 

[C4Lukins]

As fun as it is for us to determine winners and losers. MS is going to do what is best for their bottom line. They want to be number 1, but if they can make numbers as a number 2 as they did the last two gens then they will accept it.

They are number 3 In the smartphone market, not number 1 in the tablet market, and so on and so forth when it comes to the various markets they engage in. They will make changes In order to compete and be successful, but they are not going to just wig out.

You can lose and still make money. Lose meaning you are not number one in the market.

 

[Steroyd]

Let's carry on this discussion in 12 months time

Once there first party titles start hitting you will see the 360 owners move over

And January sales, what you expecting from the month with people and no money? Going for the cheaper console!!

Of course ps4 were driven because no one could get hold of one, which makes people want one! Look at Wii to tell you that story

Xbox will be fine! It's Sony that needs to sell well to get some cash flow back in the business

Well damn, if people want one because it's unavailable and they outsold the competition handily isn't that only going to snowball even worse by time MS's first party games start hitting?

 

[KnockOneOff]

Well damn, if people want one because it's unavailable and they outsold the competition handily isn't that only going to snowball even worse by time MS's first party games start hitting?

Look at playstation 3 and Wii launches

And that guy above saying people go for the superior 3rd party titles? Hell how many people do you think buy from neogaf graphic comparison threads?

You don't think MS will throw money at devs to get 1st release and exclusive DLC etc again?

Playstation first party titles I agree are really really good, but Microsoft are smart and they will throw money to pull exclusivity on a 3rd party title

And you just know Microsoft has a stack of cards they are holding

 

[SwiftDeath]

You don't think MS will throw money at devs to get 1st release and exclusive DLC etc again?

Playstation first party titles I agree are really really good, but Microsoft are smart and they will throw money to pull exclusivity on a 3rd party title

And you just know Microsoft has a stack of cards they are holding

The problem with MS's usual methods to add value to their platform [1st release, exclusive DLC, moneyhatted 3rd Party Exclusives] is that all relies on covering the cost of loss sales on opposing platforms that content would release on.

In the last generation MS was always ahead install base-wise for what 7 out of 8 years?

PS4 is likely 2 million ahead in the first 3 months. The costs to buy exclusive 3rd party content is going to rise sharply as the gap between platforms increases. MS's best bet as it was with Sony and PS3 last gen was to improve their 1P offerings and while this is still possible for MS, the move to take Black tusk off of their own IP and make the next gears is quite telling imo.

 

[Sandfox]

Look at playstation 3 and Wii launches

And that guy above saying people go for the superior 3rd party titles? Hell how many people do you think buy from neogaf graphic comparison threads?

You don't think MS will throw money at devs to get 1st release and exclusive DLC etc again?

Playstation first party titles I agree are really really good, but Microsoft are smart and they will throw money to pull exclusivity on a 3rd party title

And you just know Microsoft has a stack of cards they are holding

So Microsoft should just throw more money at the Xbox and try to get more Titanfall type games? I don't see that happening at all and it probably wouldn't work.

 

[samurai1226]

It's marathon, not a sprint. I know a bunch of people who really hated the one but now bought it for Titanfall

 

[NolbertoS]

I don't think MS, will get back on track, they're already facing PS3 launch symptoms at being expensive, also having lower specs than the PS4 in terms of OS, visuals and ability to run higher frame rates for games is already dogging them. I fully expect MS to sell the Xbox Division in the foreseeable future if sales don't really start picking up. Its just 2 shareholders up in arms, but soon more will join them and more noise will be made and Amazon buys rhem for a lower stock price

 

[zhao3gold]

As long as Microsoft keeps pushing new exclusive games or games with exclusive contents like they are doing now, for instance, Ryse, Sunset Overdrive, QB, then I am fine with whatever Xbox One can be sold in its life time, even it is 100millions less than PS4. I mean OG Xbox was sold only 24millions, but I still enjoyed many games on it, and it was my primary console in that generation.

Of course, if the sales of Xbox One can be improved, that would be much better because it will gain the support from the 3rd parties, but sales still doesn't mean everything.

I don't care if Xbox One will be the last console from Microsoft. I only need Microsoft to do its best to satisfy their fans. So far, I have seen some improvements from Microsoft comparing to the last few years of Xbox 360.

 

[shouamabane]

What's the over-under on a price drop? May?

 

[Kagey K]

What's the over-under on a price drop? May?

Sept is the month I say. Dibs on the pool.

 

[Salez]

It's marathon, not a sprint. I know a bunch of people who really hated the one but now bought it for Titanfall

A bunch of people willing to spend hundreds of dollars just to play a game on a system they hate? Seems weird since it's not a Xbox One exclusive

Everyone I know will play it on PC or X360

 

[Uncle Rupee]

Microsoft will abandon the Xbox as videogame console and create a much cheaper stream box like the Apple TV, for stuff like Netflix, Hulu, and its own stuff.

 

[ryanofcall]

Internet 2018:
BREAKING NEWS! Gamers won this Gen of videogame Consoles AGAIN!
Who would've thought, after gamers won last gen, for getting so many awesome games on 3 great major videogame consoles + PC, they did it again!
THANK YOU again Sony, Nintendo, Microsoft and all the Dev Studios, except EA. because you suck, EA.

 

[raphanum]

I'm a little late to the discussion, but what do you mean by 'lose?' If you mean in terms of selling less than the competition, then I understand, but all the Xbox has to do is remain profitable for MS. It's all about business and making that sweet, sweet monies. Selling less than the PS4 is not conducive to losing. I'm sure MS would love majority market share, as would any company selling a product, but looking at the situation simply in terms of units sold without considering other factors is simplistic. Obviously, MS will work toward increasing their market share/user base, but that's a given, regardless of if they're dominant or not.

 

[ryanofcall]

And even that is highly debatable. I personally would take the added games of Warframe and Blacklight and DCOU along with the exclusives like Don't Starve, Warframe, Res0gun, Killzone, etc. , Over single games like a Dead Rising 3 and Killer Instinct. The PS4 already had a huge lineup of games you can't find on the X1, and will only grow much larger soon.

Warframe alone man, high quality, not on X1 yet or for awhile yet.

Well I have my PS4 already, too, and no Xbone (yet?).
But I have to admit that both line ups suck so far (sure there's more titles on ps4... but the quality, man.... the quality...)... actually you get more from a Wii U at the moment imo (if you still have a X360/PS3 for multiplat.), since it's already been out for a year and there are some of the best exclusives of the last few years (W101, SM3DW, Pikmin 3 etc.) on it...

 

[RalchAC]

180K PS4's sold in spain in the same time period so I wouldn't say it's an irrelevant market

There are 2,7 million PS3s sold here in Spain. I think we're the 4th biggest country in Europe in terms of videogame revenue (behind UK, FR and Germany. Italy and Spain are around the same numbers).

Info here (in Spanish)

 

[ymmv]

Microsoft will abandon the Xbox as videogame console and create a much cheaper stream box like the Apple TV, for stuff like Netflix, Hulu, and its own stuff.

Wasn't this part of the original plan? A separate, ultra-cheap Xbox that couldn't play the big retail games?

 

[quetz67]

Here are some questions people ask before buying a console (for themselves or someone else):

For the none educated:

- Wich console has the better price
- Which console has the more positive mindshare/coolness factor?
- Which console has the better games out
- Which console was my last one?

For the slightly educated

- Which console has more power (or for the more educated: which console gives me good resolution and FPS?).
- Which console is more successful (or for the none educated: which console do my friends own).
- Which console has more/better features
- Which console has more games coming in the near future.
- Which country is the console made in?

For the rather educated:

- Which console has the most first/second party games coming?
- Which console has more 3rd party exclusive buyouts coming?
- Which console has the better dashboard?
- Which console has more indie games coming?
- Which console will be lead development platform for 3rd parties?

For people living in Japan:

- Will I get a PS4 or only a handheld?

Sony wins most of this hands down and Microsoft has really only two points they can work on:
- price
- buying exclusives

I think there will be a point where the "which console is more powerful" and "which console do my friends own" will be too overwhelming that even a lower price and not even an exclusive GTA VI won't help XBone anymore. So if the want to "react" they better do it fast.

Xbox at least was more powerful than PS2, had Halo and the novelty factor plus the US origin. XBone has really none of that, even the being from the US doesn't seem to help that much any more.

They might have missed the boat already and that can result in a worse ratio than PS2/XB. That will raise questions even if looks like they still make money. But if R&D costs are really blown out of proportion like the 100M controller plus general marketing costs (which must be enormous too) then being a distant second is not an option to justify staying in the business.

 

[bebop242]

Look at playstation 3 and Wii launches

And that guy above saying people go for the superior 3rd party titles? Hell how many people do you think buy from neogaf graphic comparison threads?

You don't think MS will throw money at devs to get 1st release and exclusive DLC etc again?

Playstation first party titles I agree are really really good, but Microsoft are smart and they will throw money to pull exclusivity on a 3rd party title

And you just know Microsoft has a stack of cards they are holding

Barring sweetheart deals, its going to be a lot more expensive to lock down 3rd party exclusives when you are trailing in your strong territories and getting curb stomped everywhere else.