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Dark Souls 2 Lighting changes/Downgrade

Floex

Member
To touch on lighting-gate, the shadowing/lighting becomes very apparent when you light a flame. When you do light a torch, you get shadow, dynamic lighting, it really looks great. When you light one of the torches dotted around and you extinguish your original flame you suddenly lose your shadow and they act more like ambient lights.

I tried to take some pictures but it doesn't do it justice.
 

KarmaCow

Member
Other sites report the size of the game being around 7-8GB. It seems that the way steam handles installs now needs room for the download and the install (someone suggest this a few days ago) like it does on the PS3 (like Tomb Raider is a 15GB download but you need 30GB of space to install it. 15GB for the install file and 15GB for the game. Once installed it only takes 15GB but you need 30GB to actually download it and install).

I'm assuming this comes up if you try to download/install the game on a drive with less than double the size of the game? The double size thing isn't any where in the system requirements on the store page, in fact Tomb Raider says it only needs 12GB when the size on disk is a little over 10GB. I don't have any DLC for it but the system requirements don't get updated anyway AFAIK,
 

Horp

Member
Ok, have thought about this for a couple of days now.
Haven't been this hyped for a game in a looong time, and I'm a huge Dark/Demons Souls fan.

But if the PC version is the downgraded version with just a bit higher resolution / AA, and there is no really good excuse/statement from FROM, then I'll just skip it.

There has to be a limit to what you can get away with in terms of false advertising.
 

Nohar

Member
Publishers lie more and more about their games, when they don't disrespect the consumers outright.

We have graphical downgrades coupled with false advertising (Watch Dogs, Dark Souls 2), abusive DLCs policies (too many games to list), content from games that are removed in order to sell those at DLCs day one (or just a week or two later), games that are advertized for a gaming console but aren't released until the next generation (Final Fantasy XIII versus, as known as Final Fantasy XV), obvious beta games which shouldn't be released at all in their current state but which still are (Final Fantasy XIV v1.0) and butchered free-to-play franchises which are total rip-off (Dungeon Keeper, Final Fantasy: All The Bravest).

I have a very simple question: when do we draw a line at these policies? Because I really feel insulted not only as a gamer, but as a person by everything that has happened in the last few years.
 

Kamina

Golden Boy
And the demo everyone played.

Also, there are RELEASE REVIEWS. Vaatiya or whatever his name is, got a "Review copy" WITH THE LIGHTING AND SHADOWS IN.

He has videos showing it off!

However, upon release day, after his review was sent, a patch downloaded and disabled it again, he's one of the biggest people crying out about this.


http://steamcommunity.com/app/236430/discussions/0/558750544109474619/

Is this true??
I checked though VaatiVidya's channel, but didn't find any videos of this supposed better looking Pre-Release Review version, nor him commenting that he noticed that downgrade.
 

Floex

Member
Not sure if serious or....




Do you have a time-step for me?

You can watch the first 30 seconds and you'll be fine for spoilers. Well, there are a couple of enemies but nothing major. But yeah, the shadows aren't there at all anymore unless you have a flame.
 

Floex

Member
Tha's another thing I've noticed. Looking at that TGS demo video, when enemies die the particle systems is gone when you take their souls. It now looks like what it was like in the original Dark Souls.

Definitely interested in the PC version if that add back in the shadows and particle effects. Shame I won't get to play it :(
 
There's something I don't get about this. How is FROm lying about the game? It's not like they only showed an hands-off CGI videos of the game. We have prove of the game running on PS3 hardware with the upgraded graphics (Vaati played and showed that version).
So why the downgrade? I see only three plausible explanations:

1) the performance load was not sustainable on consoles, so they had to scale it down. This mean a likely restored PC version.

2) they tested a ps4 xbone version of the tech/engine and created a demo of a limited area of the game. This would be the TGS demo. they had the press play this version at preview events, never mentioned that the rest of the game never was built for that graphical fidelity, then proceeded to the release switcharoo.

3) They are purposely cutting back the pc version to later sell a "definitive edition" on next gen consoles...

choose your poison GAF!
 

Karkador

Banned
Tha's another thing I've noticed. Looking at that TGS demo video, when enemies die the particle systems is gone when you take their souls. It now looks like what it was like in the original Dark Souls.

Definitely interested in the PC version if that add back in the shadows and particle effects. Shame I won't get to play it :(

It makes me wonder if FROM lost months of work somehow (server crash and no recent back-ups, maybe) and all of this nice stuff they had made just disappeared, but they had to meet the release date anyway.

It would explain a lot.
 

Garcia

Member
The game is plagued with bugs!

I've seen enemies materializing out of thin air, distant mobs moving at lower framerates, out of sync sound FX (everytime), objects disappearing and reappearing in fractions of a second, enemies not registering my attacks, input lag both in the HUD and most screen menus, corpses floating around or having half of their body inside the walls. . .

The texture quality of most enemies is shit. The hound dogs and skeletons look like they belong (again) to a PS2 game. DS1's mobs had higher poly counts than some of the enemies I've encountered so far.

FROM better fix most of that shit for the PC release because there IS a great game hiding behind a huge pile of problems.

The Co-op is superb and works like a charm. I seriously can't wait to play with all of you guys when this gets released on PC. Dedicated servers + no loading times = The ultimate Souls experience.
 
Reddit seems to be up FromSoft's arse. If you mention the graphical downgrade prepare for massive downvotes.

Truth is a lot of Darksouls fans don't care at all about graphics. Like at all. The game is challenging and has good gameplay so they really don't care. It's not about being up anyone's ass this series was never about graphics so most of the time it's an afterthought for them.
 
I understand the arguments being made about vertical slices, and misrepresenting what the final product will be like, but ultimately should we not respect From Sotfware's artistic integrity to ship the game in the state they believe is best? Things change during development, and we as a collective group can't enforce our views of what the game should be. The lighting system looked interesting, it definitely looked to add a layer of difficulty having to manage torch life, battle one handed, and traverse dark environments. From Software seemingly has cut that idea, and still managed to deliver an incredible game in the process.

Why not celebrate that a new Dark Souls has been shipped and that all of the pre-launch fears of difficulty being curbed, or ruined by a new director were incorrect? Does anyone remember what RE4 looked like before it launched? It was a completely different game, yet what it ended up being was amazing. Or what about the Halo 2 reveal from Bungie that never made it into the game? You may say that this nothing like that, because the preview version of Dark Souls 2 is the same, just missing a lighting system. But this is inherent to game development, what you see is not always what you get, and there are usually perfectly legitimate reasons for that change that is outside of what we the fans can demand on a collective level.

Should From Sotfware address the lighting differences? Sure. Do the lighting difference bother me? Yeah, in a way, the tutorial had all of these torches to be lit, and seemingly for no reason because initially it was supposed to be dark. The fact that they haven't done away with the whole torch system entirely points to a quick setting swap to get the old system out but ship the game with minimal changes. However, this is the game we got. To ignore all the good, great and amazing content that is in the game, and to fixate on an issue such as how the environment is lit on the console version of the game is just unfortunate, in my humble opinion.
 

RK9039

Member
There's something I don't get about this. How is FROm lying about the game? It's not like they only showed an hands-off CGI videos of the game. We have prove of the game running on PS3 hardware with the upgraded graphics (Vaati played and showed that version).

Can you link the Vaati video please? I can't seem to find the right one.
 

Raitaro

Member
Ok, have thought about this for a couple of days now.
Haven't been this hyped for a game in a looong time, and I'm a huge Dark/Demons Souls fan.

But if the PC version is the downgraded version with just a bit higher resolution / AA, and there is no really good excuse/statement from FROM, then I'll just skip it.

There has to be a limit to what you can get away with in terms of false advertising.

If I hadn't ordered the PS3 version to be delivered tomorrow already, I actually might have joined your protest. Never has my hype for a game been on such a rollercoaster of highs and lows as with this game.

Man, why did this have to happen to this series out of all of the ones in the market!?

It started with a surprise hit that was championed by the chosen few, continued with an almost universally loved sequel that might have impacted future game design for years to come, but it seems to finish with a game that looks to be dominated by negativity and shouts of "betrayal!", despite it getting solid mainstream reviews.

The thing is: those reviews don't matter jack shit in the grand scheme of gaming, nor do the sales numbers if they are good. If people like those here - the ones that stuck with this series from the beginning and who have spread their love as for as they could - start to look down on this game because of these kind of practices and downgrades, this series might be nearing its death already, at least as far it being significant for us goes.

I'm keeping hope that come tomorrow I might actually still be pleasantly suprised by the game and its visuals, but I fear that my enjoyment might be pre-emptively ruined...

(And again: yes, I know I'm overreacting here in a way, but I think I'm allowed when it comes to these games that I love, no need so much.)
 
The game is plagued with bugs!

I've seen enemies materializing out of thin air, distant mobs moving at lower framerates, out of sync sound FX (everytime), objects disappearing and reappearing in fractions of a second, enemies not registering my attacks, input lag both in the HUD and most screen menus, corpses floating around or having half of their body inside the walls. . .

The texture quality in most enemies is shit. The hound dogs and skeletons look like they belong (again) to a PS2 game. DS1's mobs had higher poly counts than some of the enemies I've encountered so far.

FROM better fix most of that shit for the PC release because there IS a great game hiding behind a huge pile of problems.

The Co-op is superb and works like a charm. I seriously can't wait to play with all of you guys when this gets released on PC. Dedicated servers + no loading times = The ultimate Souls experience.

Yeah, I heard about those problems and probably another proof of how not only the game was designed around dark areas but also optimized with that in mind.
 

epmode

Member
To ignore all the good, great and amazing content that is in the game, and to fixate on an issue such as how the environment is lit on the console version of the game is just unfortunate, in my humble opinion.

Making noise is the only way we'll ever get a response from Namco/From.
 
If I hadn't ordered the PS3 version to be delivered tomorrow already, I actually might have joined your protest. Never has my hype for a game been on such a rollercoaster of highs and lows as with this game.

Man, why did this have to happen to this series out of all of the ones in the market!?

It started with a surprise hit that was championed by the chosen few, continued with an almost universally loved sequel that might have impacted future game design for years to come, but it seems to finish with a game that looks to be dominated by negativity and shouts of "betrayal!", despite it getting solid mainstream reviews.

The thing is: those reviews don't matter jack shit in the grand scheme of gaming, nor do the sales numbers if they are good. If people like those here - the ones that stuck with this series from the beginning and who have spread their love as for as they could - start to look down on this game because of these kind of practices and downgrades, this series might be nearing its death already, at least as far it being significant for us goes.

I'm keeping hope that come tomorrow I might actually still be pleasantly suprised by the game and its visuals, but I fear that my enjoyment might be pre-emptively ruined...

(And again: yes, I know I'm overreacting here in a way, but I think I'm allowed when it comes to these games that I love, no need so much.)

No. Overall people love the game and still think it's looks good on it's own. It's just not as good looking as what was shown and that is what is angering people. I don't think the game is ruined by any means.
 

Akainu

Member
"Apparently both the side-by-side videos are of PS3 footage, and there’s no doubt that the lighting and textures (and backgrounds, etc.) in the earlier build look much prettier (though not necessarily better for this particular game.)"

A goddamned apologist.

Yeah. I'm like, "Oh hey someone is actually talking about it," then he is mostly making excuses too.
 
There's something I don't get about this. How is FROm lying about the game? It's not like they only showed an hands-off CGI videos of the game. We have prove of the game running on PS3 hardware with the upgraded graphics (Vaati played and showed that version).
So why the downgrade? I see only three plausible explanations:

1) the performance load was not sustainable on consoles, so they had to scale it down. This mean a likely restored PC version.

2) they tested a ps4 xbone version of the tech/engine and created a demo of a limited area of the game. This would be the TGS demo. they had the press play this version at preview events, never mentioned that the rest of the game never was built for that graphical fidelity, then proceeded to the release switcharoo.

3) They are purposely cutting back the pc version to later sell a "definitive edition" on next gen consoles...

choose your poison GAF!

With every finger and toe of my body crossed, I choose 1.

I'd happily double dip for that on launch day at full price.
If the PC version is the gutted console version at a higher frame rate/resolution then I'll still buy it, but only for £5 or less in a Steam sale.
 

Raitaro

Member
The game is plagued with bugs!

I've seen enemies materializing out of thin air, distant mobs moving at lower framerates, out of sync sound FX (everytime), objects disappearing and reappearing in fractions of a second, enemies not registering my attacks, input lag both in the HUD and most screen menus, corpses floating around or having half of their body inside the walls. . .

And the negativity is getting worse and worse...why oh why...please hold me GAF and say it's all a bad dream...
 

Floex

Member
It makes me wonder if FROM lost months of work somehow (server crash and no recent back-ups, maybe) and all of this nice stuff they had made just disappeared, but they had to meet the release date anyway.

It would explain a lot.

Just had a look at the TGS demo, if you cut to 16 seconds and finish around the 27 second mark, I was literally in that room. I will say with the flame, the game looks like that. The shadows move like it does in that video. It's when you don't have a flame, all the great lighting and shadow work disappear.

If there was a way to have the flame on 100% of the time, the game would look fantastic. :lol:

TGS trailer

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjZvXpOMGxY
 

valeo

Member
Why are people surprised this game has problems? Dark Souls and Demon Souls became popular despite of their huge flaws.
 

Shosai

Banned
It's especially weird that journalists could hardly be bothered to give this series of games the time of day before (on Giant Bomb, Demon's Souls was like some crazy, off-topic Vinny thing akin to doomsday prepping), now it's all DS2 all the time, and the game can do no wrong. It's like some kind of gaming Stockholm Syndrome.

It's weird that the franchise became more popular over the span of 4 years?
 
I understand the arguments being made about vertical slices, and misrepresenting what the final product will be like, but ultimately should we not respect From Sotfware's artistic integrity to ship the game in the state they believe is best? Things change during development, and we as a collective group can't enforce our views of what the game should be. The lighting system looked interesting, it definitely looked to add a layer of difficulty having to manage torch life, battle one handed, and traverse dark environments. From Software seemingly has cut that idea, and still managed to deliver an incredible game in the process.

Why not celebrate that a new Dark Souls has been shipped and that all of the pre-launch fears of difficulty being curbed, or ruined by a new director were incorrect? Does anyone remember what RE4 looked like before it launched? It was a completely different game, yet what it ended up being was amazing. Or what about the Halo 2 reveal from Bungie that never made it into the game? You may say that this nothing like that, because the preview version of Dark Souls 2 is the same, just missing a lighting system. But this is inherent to game development, what you see is not always what you get, and there are usually perfectly legitimate reasons for that change that is outside of what we the fans can demand on a collective level.

Should From Sotfware address the lighting differences? Sure. Do the lighting difference bother me? Yeah, in a way, the tutorial had all of these torches to be lit, and seemingly for no reason because initially it was supposed to be dark. The fact that they haven't done away with the whole torch system entirely points to a quick setting swap to get the old system out but ship the game with minimal changes. However, this is the game we got. To ignore all the good, great and amazing content that is in the game, and to fixate on an issue such as how the environment is lit on the console version of the game is just unfortunate, in my humble opinion.
because people want to be upset about having something taken from them that they never really had in the first place. game development is just a constant slope upward you see, everything is always improving, always getting better. no compromises are ever made, and consoles aren't hardware locked.

personally i think the game looks great. it's an obvious improvement over Dark Souls, just not the leap From was showing at the reveal. i was sold before I even saw a screen, but i'm part of the problem because i'm "bought it anyway"; despite the fact i was never going to buy Dark Souls II for it's graphical fidelity. the game is gorgeous. the art direction is sublime and inspired. it's going to look even better on PC. but LIGHTING ENGINES.
 
Why are people surprised this game has problems? Dark Souls and Demon Souls became popular despite of their huge flaws.

Because we were suposed to get a very different game.

Everyone knew what kind of graphics Demon and Dark Souls had on release. This was 100% unexpected false advertisment.
 

Akainu

Member
I understand the arguments being made about vertical slices, and misrepresenting what the final product will be like, but ultimately should we not respect From Sotfware's artistic integrity to ship the game in the state they believe is best?
I respect the massive balls they had to ship this out without telling anyone. But no.
 
Well, that actually is somewhat comforting at least. Thank you for disagreeing with me then.

I just understand your pain. I am probably looking forward to this game more than I should be and hearing negative stuff truly scares me. But from impressions the experiences shared online this is a great game and from all the shitty youtube/twitch video I've seen those graphics in 1080p with a solid framerate is more than enough to make me happy. Yeah I think it was really shitty not to show what the console versions actually looked like and I do hope they tell us what the hell happened but that doesn't make the game suck. Anything better that comes graphically from the PC version is just icing on the cake for me.
 

Facism

Member
will be going to pick up a ps3 copy from tescos in 30 minutes. Disappointed in the downgrades, but it's a souls game and i want to play the fucker. Will trade in a week for some monies as i've already got the pc version ordered cheap as a coventry blowjob.
 

dosh

Member
i was sold before I even saw a screen, but i'm part of the problem because i'm "bought it anyway";

Come on, nobody in this thread is coming down on gamers who bought Dark Souls 2 and blaming them for enjoying the game.

People just feel disappointed and a bit perplexed because these issues are coming out of nowhere. Nobody's trying to dampen your enthusiasm.

The negativity is from people who aren't playing the game but instead looking at screenshots.

In that case, the poster's clearly playing the game though.
 
This was 100% unexpected false advertisment.

I respect the massive balls they had to ship this out without telling anyone. But no.

I just don't agree with you folks. There was no crime committed. I didn't even notice it was different from how it was advertised until I entered this thread. I just think actually playing the game would alleviate 90% of the frustration people are projecting in this thread. If you go into the Dark Souls 2 OT, it's marvelous. It's the kind of DS thread we all know and love. People giving stat build comparisons, strategy conversations, item hints, boss tips, etc. Just sucks to have the spirit of Dark Souls get marred by the prototypical online controversy that we all love to pile up on.
 

valeo

Member
The game is plagued with bugs!

I've seen enemies materializing out of thin air, distant mobs moving at lower framerates, out of sync sound FX (everytime), objects disappearing and reappearing in fractions of a second, enemies not registering my attacks, input lag both in the HUD and most screen menus, corpses floating around or having half of their body inside the walls. . .

The texture quality of most enemies is shit. The hound dogs and skeletons look like they belong (again) to a PS2 game. DS1's mobs had higher poly counts than some of the enemies I've encountered so far.

FROM better fix most of that shit for the PC release because there IS a great game hiding behind a huge pile of problems.

The Co-op is superb and works like a charm. I seriously can't wait to play with all of you guys when this gets released on PC. Dedicated servers + no loading times = The ultimate Souls experience.

If you think there wont be problems with the PC port then you are kidding yourself.
 
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