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The Leftovers |OT| Left Behind With Damon Lindelof - Sundays 10/9c

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I don't think so. The Garvey family did not lose anyone on 10/14. It really makes it hard for me to care about their story.
I actually find it more interesting that way. The story easily could've been Kevin's wife is one of the departed and that tears apart the family. Her being still alive, but abandons her family a cult is a lot more interesting to me.

Now I do think they need to fill the audience in some more on the "why" of the whole situation.
 
I'm fine with the Garveys not having lost anyone. With good, compelling writing, I think you can make that work.

The problem is they're not holding their own against the show's more interesting characters, most notably Nora and Rev. Matt. And when the entire show revolves around the Garveys, that's a big problem.

It's just a very claustrophobic show so far. We're almost midway through the season and I feel like we're being given a very narrow perspective of this world.
 

Wizman23

Banned
The only good thing about the first 4 episodes of this show is that yesterdays episode opened with my favorite Black Keys song of all time.
 
Ugh, that was a terrible episode for the most part. I thought the part with the girl and Tommy (is his name Tommy? I can't even remember) was interesting as was that scene with the Loved Ones strewn all over the highway.

Hopefully next weeks episode focuses on someone else, I can't take any more of the Garvey garbage. Terrible. Just...terrible.
 

StuBurns

Banned
Not a good episode, all the teenagers are so so so bad. The thing I was fairly concerned about regarding the show was the possible pervasive use of religious imagery and allusions. I thought because the book is never clear it's the rapture or not, I thought we'd get some of it, but they'd hold back a little, but no, it's relentless, and so ineptly handled. While much of the blame is falling on Lindelof for the show's quality, and certainly he's partially to blame, it's the direction that's really appalling so far. I don't know who's running that, or what else they've done, but they need canning.

DatNoraDoe
 

Radogol

Member
I think the show is pretty weak but the more drunk I am, the more I enjoy it. I was pretty drunk watching episode 4 and found it to be the best installment yet! Really enjoyed the Baby Jesus sub-plot.

Mind, I am pretty emotional when I'm drunk. So emotional in fact, that I've once cried rewatching the original Robocop while terribly wasted. So there's that.
 

Mully

Member
I really like the show, but I have a good feeling a majority of that enjoyment is because of Margaret Qualley. I like my women slightly pissed off and mysterious.

With that said, the episode was okay. It's pace is starting to get to me. The show needs to show a broader picture of what the hell is going on.
 

Frog-fu

Banned
I enjoyed the episode, it wasn't as good as last week's, and the kids always piss me off, but what was going on with Kevin, Tom and the GR was interesting enough.

I like Sepinwalls review. Spot on. It's nice to see some people can appreciate what the show is about and the subtle things that all interact and serve as metaphors. It seems it's "cool" to be smarter than this show. Yawn.

I'm getting a bit of tired of people constantly hating on the show tbh. It's like this show had the misfortune of falling into the trend of people cool to bash, e.g. "This show is terrible!" or "These characters are so boring!" without any further explanation as to why anyone thinks that. Just statements.

The fact is, there is a lot to like about the show and if people don't like it, that's absolutely fine, but the "this show sucks and that is a fact" posts got old 5 pages ago.
 

tirminyl

Member
After every episode I am left wondering why I watch this show. There are more questions and no answers. I don't think I like any of the characters.

Also, does everyone just leave their doors unlocked while they are asleep on the inside? Not one person noticed someone going through their house removing the pictures from the frames? Do they honestly think people will not know that it was them and retaliate?

Sigh.
 
D

Deleted member 325805

Unconfirmed Member
I really can't get into this show, I think it's time to drop it.
 

BadAss2961

Member
I really like the show, but I have a good feeling a majority of that enjoyment is because of Margaret Qualley. I like my women slightly pissed off and mysterious.
She's cute but she's being a huge brat now.

Killing the Baby Jesus would've been irredeemable.
 
Not really sure where the show is going. lm still interested, but I think that's more related to the initial pull the trailers had on me.

I feel like the show has told me next to nothing about the universe the story takes place in. Maybe that's intentional, but it's making it harder to give a shit.

I'm also kinda turned off by the religious stuff. This might be my fault as I knew / know nothing about the books or the show coming in.

Still cautiously interested though.
 

RatskyWatsky

Hunky Nostradamus
"Hey, that's a lovely gift from your daughter. You should keep it. I won't tell."

"Nope, I'm throwin' it down a storm drain!"

Also, I loved how the Guilty Remnant recreated that scene from How the Grinch Stole Christmas at the end.
 
"Hey, that's a lovely gift from your daughter. You should keep it. I won't tell."

"Nope, I'm throwin' it down a storm drain!"

Also, I loved how the Guilty Remnant recreated that scene from How the Grinch Stole Christmas at the end.

And then she tries to get it back with the symbolic it's out of reach shot as well.
 

Dan

No longer boycotting the Wolfenstein franchise
I've taken to doing crossword puzzles during this show.

I know this, I do not give a flying fuck about Tommy, Christine and Wayne. The latter are delusional morons, and we have been given absolutely no indication of why the hell Tommy is doing any of this. Just because it's a 'purpose'? Blah. He acted so completely stupidly at the hospital, that was hard to take.
 
Episode 4 was absurdly weak coming off of 3. Almost to the point that I would stop watching. Next week will be the deciding episode for me. I thought the first 3 episodes were good, but this one was just... empty.
 

BlueTsunami

there is joy in sucking dick
The show has great intrigue that the show runners seems less interested in than the interrelationship of characters. I like how bleak it is but keeping this bleak, low key tempo without some payoff or build up will leave a bad taste with me. Guess I'm holding on for some great reveal but if Lost was any indication, I'm in for a world of hurt.
 

RatskyWatsky

Hunky Nostradamus
Episode 4 was absurdly weak coming off of 3. Almost to the point that I would stop watching. Next week will be the deciding episode for me. I thought the first 3 episodes were good, but this one was just... empty.

You liked the first three episodes but you're considering dropping the show because you didn't like the fourth?
 
This show reminds me of another HBO train wreck "John from Cincinnati"...utterly pointless with questions rather then answers.
I give up.
 
This could really do better with some medium to heavy sci-fi intermittently introduced with each episode. The concept is neat, but there needs to be some more interesting things put into it without just "what-ifs" constantly. The premise isn't enough to hold up the show without bigger ideas opened up, IMO.
 

royalan

Member
This could really do better with some medium to heavy sci-fi intermittently introduced with each episode. The concept is neat, but there needs to be some more interesting things put into it without just "what-ifs" constantly. The premise isn't enough to hold up the show without bigger ideas opened up, IMO.

I agree. I think they either need to do this or drop the mystery entirely. 2% of the world's population vanished. The end. The rest of the show deals with the aftermath and character drama. I could live with that. I could enjoy that.

But Lindelof is stating to lean on his WORST habit: he wants us to care about his characters but he keeps going back to the mystery bullshit to keep viewers engaged. It was especially apparent this week with practically ALL of the characters talking around the obvious, and all the bullshit with "IT'S JUST LIKE IN THE DREAM!" and Crazy Prophetic Penis Man (who was actually kind of hot
please tell me that he actually WAS kind of hot and I'm not just delusional because we got several glorious eye-fulls of his dick this episode
).

It's these random mystery bits that seem thrown into the episode (just like Weird Prophetic Grandpa from two episodes ago) that makes me want to scream, and reminds me of the WORST parts of Lost. They seem thrown in specifically to tantalize the audience, and not the flesh out the story in a way that will eventually make sense. And it just makes you wonder how Lindelof consistently fails to get it: If you want people to give a fuck about your characters, FOCUS ON YOUR FUCKING CHARACTERS. The fact that we're on episode 4 and I can't remember half of their names is telling.
 

WaffleTaco

Wants to outlaw technological innovation.
Just watched the fourth episode and, it's like what the fuck. This seriously the first episode where I am legitimately annoyed with it. The episode teasers are lies!!!
 

Grizzo

Member
Crazy Prophetic Penis Man (who was actually kind of hot
please tell me that he actually WAS kind of hot and I'm not just delusional because we got several glorious eye-fulls of his dick this episode
).

Mmmh I think he was alright. But Tommy and Kevin are way hotter.
 

Blader

Member
Thought the fourth ep was fine but the kids, Guilty Remnant, and whatever the fuck this Wayne/Christine/Tommy plot is supposed to be need written out immediately. Not only are they not interesting, they're completely grating to watch.

Lindelof has found his new Jack/Locke in Kevin and Reverend Doctor, and the spotlight needs to shift to them in a major way soon as they're the only worthwhile characters/actors.
 

RatskyWatsky

Hunky Nostradamus
I think they either need to do this or drop the mystery entirely. 2% of the world's population vanished. The end. The rest of the show deals with the aftermath and character drama. I could live with that. I could enjoy that.

But Lindelof is stating to lean on his WORST habit: he wants us to care about his characters but he keeps going back to the mystery bullshit to keep viewers engaged. It was especially apparent this week with practically ALL of the characters talking around the obvious, and all the bullshit with "IT'S JUST LIKE IN THE DREAM!"

It's these random mystery bits that seem thrown into the episode (just like Weird Prophetic Grandpa from two episodes ago) that makes me want to scream, and reminds me of the WORST parts of Lost. They seem thrown in specifically to tantalize the audience, and not the flesh out the story in a way that will eventually make sense. And it just makes you wonder how Lindelof consistently fails to get it: If you want people to give a fuck about your characters, FOCUS ON YOUR FUCKING CHARACTERS. The fact that we're on episode 4 and I can't remember half of their names is telling.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

Crazy Prophetic Penis Man (who was actually kind of hot
please tell me that he actually WAS kind of hot and I'm not just delusional because we got several glorious eye-fulls of his dick this episode
).

He kinda was, I suppose, though to be honest I barely even noticed his face.

Can't stand them. Plus I feel like we won't ever get an answer as to what they're all about and this is grating on me.

I think they're from the book, so maybe someone who's read it can confirm whether or not that part of the story is ever explained.
 

Saty

Member
Classic Lindelof: lay it thick and heavy with mysteries, questions, question marks and not answering any in acceptable pace.

I still don't get why the show has that vanishing incident in the premise. It doesn't add anything.

How am i expected to be interested, care or invest in the characters and etc. when the show is giving close to nothing to me? They are asking a lot from the viewer but aren't willing to share some basics so we can see how to orientate ourselves to it and to what's going on.

What's the big deal about the baby doll being missing? Would that be a big deal in real life? Anyhow, Garvey finds it but nobody in the fundraiser gives a damn. So what's the point of that was?
Regardless, the dialogue this series is having is much too religious for my taste.

So the GR have a custom of breaking into a block of houses for the past 3 years? How come there aren't tens of witnesses and camera footage so the police can disband them? What's GR's point other than criminally preventing people from going on with their lives? Again, not giving basic details and expecting the viewer to be all over it. And why would Laurie join that organization if she hasn't lost someone in the event? Why would she go there as a response to her husband cheating on her?

It reminds me of S6 of Lost were we were supposed to care about the flashforwards even though they gave no reasons why we should or how we should feel about them or what weight to assign them with. In the end, they meant jack shit.

Tommy over-reacted, Christine didn't look like she was going to falsely accuse him in front of the cops, doesn't do her any good. There are tens of people who could testify about the crazy guy. But he runs, has a crisis of fate that is resolved..how exactly? Getting that precious call that turned out to be an ad and for some reason that gets him back to the mission? It would have been better off if he hadn't run at all.

--

Jill's friend - Calista Flockheart from her early 'Allie Macbeal' days + Eliza Dushko.
 

Saty

Member
How so? It wouldn't have made a difference if they all those who vanished simply died on the spot for some medical reasons.

Garvey is dealing with domestic stuff of his wife leaving somewhere after he cheated on her. He is also presumably battling a potential mental condition.

Tommy and Wayne stuff aren't connected at all with the disappearance.

Nora lost his family. It could be exactly the same if they died suddenly.

The priest is concerned about letting everybody know the part of the vanished were bad people so we shouldn't revere them etc. The same could have been if 2% of the population died at the same time. People would still be trying to cherish all those who passed away randomly or ascribe to it meanings.

Same goes for the GR. Not letting those people who died be forgotten.
Religious people could still act religiously about that massive death. But the fact there are bodies and all died from the same medical condition would lessen the heavy religious emphasis the show currently has.

You could probably eliminate the 'something happened to 2% of the world' and still have the show be more or less as it's been. Or have something like a plane that flew out in Christmas night, that passed over some religious landmark in its flight, has landed with all the crew and passengers found dead or with them not in it to keep that premise of something X happened to Y people that The Leftovers is using.

So far i really don't see how the specific premise the show has taken (haven't read the book) is enabling or magnifying what has so far transpired. In face, the detail of the vanishing of people into a thin air gives fuel to the religious and mystic underpinnings of the show that to me is part of what i dislike about it.
 

Saty

Member
Right, forgot for a second that the break-ins were the surprise act and not part of the 'give us a break tomorrow' when Garvey talked with their 'leader' at the start of the ep. Still, there should be evidence for that now so Garvey can act against them legally. There were citizens ducking out of their way and seeing what they are doing. Start an investigation against them for the missing pictures, at least.

Unless they are going to reveal that the GR movement is protected against stuff or something.
 

Nokagi

Unconfirmed Member
This show reminds me of another HBO train wreck "John from Cincinnati"...utterly pointless with questions rather then answers.
I give up.

Yeah same here.I feel like I gave the show enough time to get going and really hook me but it's just not happening.
 

royalan

Member
Right, forgot for a second that the break-ins were the surprise act and not part of the 'give us a break tomorrow' when Garvey talked with their 'leader' at the start of the ep. Still, there should be evidence for that now so Garvey can act against them legally. There were citizens ducking out of their way and seeing what they are doing. Start an investigation against them for the missing pictures, at least.

Unless they are going to reveal that the GR movement is protected against stuff or something.

Yeah, the show should have kept it clever by having the GR constantly toe the line of legality but never actually crossing it. That photo stunt last episode just makes me wonder how the town could be stupid enough to not notice that the GR actually does illegal shit from time to time, or why they don't do anything about it if they have noticed. Unless Lindolof's going to pull a "they're sneaking into their own homes!" which I suspect will be the reasoning, but still, that's kinda stupid...

Overall, the GR fails as a point of interest to me because, as Saty pointed out, we just haven't been given enough information about them to be invested. Right now they just seem like a garage full of random customs. I want to know why they do the shit they do--i.e. how did they come up with these customs? Who decided? Who do they answer to? How did this cult form and become national in such a relatively short amount of time (3 years)? What's the ultimate purpose? If nothing matters then why are they doing any of this? These are important questions, and I know Lindelof might be saving all of this info for some big season 4 "reveal" but, really, a lot of these questions, these missing chunks of vital info, should have been supplied to the audience right from the beginning. Stuff like Who What When Where and Why? are vital for investment. For getting the audience to engage and say, "you know, I don't completely get it, but I'm willing to come along for the ride." Lindelof uses mystery as an excuse for half-assed world-building. Right now, the GR just seem like a bunch of clowns. They basically ARE The Others, but without the interesting island backdrop and Ben Linus being badass to keep audiences engaged.
 

Quote

Member
Like my brain processes what's going on but what the hell is going on? Is there a point to any if this? Am i supposed to be committed to any of the characters?
 

StuBurns

Banned
How so? It wouldn't have made a difference if they all those who vanished simply died on the spot for some medical reasons.

Garvey is dealing with domestic stuff of his wife leaving somewhere after he cheated on her. He is also presumably battling a potential mental condition.

Tommy and Wayne stuff aren't connected at all with the disappearance.

Nora lost his family. It could be exactly the same if they died suddenly.

The priest is concerned about letting everybody know the part of the vanished were bad people so we shouldn't revere them etc. The same could have been if 2% of the population died at the same time. People would still be trying to cherish all those who passed away randomly or ascribe to it meanings.

Same goes for the GR. Not letting those people who died be forgotten.
Religious people could still act religiously about that massive death. But the fact there are bodies and all died from the same medical condition would lessen the heavy religious emphasis the show currently has.

You could probably eliminate the 'something happened to 2% of the world' and still have the show be more or less as it's been. Or have something like a plane that flew out in Christmas night, that passed over some religious landmark in its flight, has landed with all the crew and passengers found dead or with them not in it to keep that premise of something X happened to Y people that The Leftovers is using.

So far i really don't see how the specific premise the show has taken (haven't read the book) is enabling or magnifying what has so far transpired. In face, the detail of the vanishing of people into a thin air gives fuel to the religious and mystic underpinnings of the show that to me is part of what i dislike about it.
Firstly, as you clearly are aware, this is adapted from a book. Lindelof didn't choose to have them disappear, that's what happened in the book.

Garvey is living in the shadow of his father, having assumed his job and home following his father's mental breakdown, which was seemingly related to the incident.

Wayne is a healer, specialising in comforting people affected by the incident, as has been having prophetic dreams since, presumably only gained his 'ability' since, but we don't know that yet.

Nora is a woman. She would have been upset if her family all just died, sure, but she's famous amongst the town because of it, she's the ultimate victim of the incident in the town.

The Priest I kind of just disagree with. Yes, if 2% of people instantly dropped dead, some people would still believe it's the rapture but I doubt it would be to the degree that it is. It also raises the point that how is that better? How is the population just magically instantly dying any better or worse than them disappearing?

I don't feel like GR's motives are really clear enough yet, but none of them have really registered as characters to me, besides Garvey's wife.

And the final paragraph seems to indicate you already know why they disappeared instead of just dying, because it does more heavily suggest a magical/mystical event. The whole titles sequence screams the rapture, the show wants you to think it's that. If you don't like that, that's fine of course, but you clearly already know why vanishing is distinct from dying.
 

Saty

Member
Garvey's father's incident could have just as well been a reaction to a mass dying.
Wayne is a healer, comforting people affected by the event of the instantaneous death of 2% of the world.

Nora is famous because she's the town-person that got 'hit' by the incident the hardest. That would have been the case if all her 4 family members vanished or died or went into a comma etc. And she will be dealing with the news of her husband's infidelity in the same manner.

If the decision is to surface religious themes and conversations, they could have done it in non-vanishing incidents as well and maybe they would feel as dominant as they are now. Or maybe they are trying to heavily suggest one thing so down the line they can 'surprise' you by taking a hard turn to something else.

If i had to guess, a motivation for choosing a vanishing event is that they plan at some time, somehow to bring the Departed back, partially or fully or in some fashion. Body swap, mind\memory swap, reincarnations or stuff.
 

StuBurns

Banned
All of those things still require a insanely impossible world event, and you still didn't say why a hundred and fifty million people dying is at all preferable to disappearing.

My understanding of the rapture is you don't die, you're taken, you ascend, disappearing plays into that in a way that death wouldn't.

And your last point makes no sense whatsoever. The motivation for choosing to have them vanish is because they vanished, it's a book, it's already decided.
 

Erigu

Member
All of those things still require a insanely impossible world event
The supernatural nature of that event doesn't change much of anything, except maybe for the assholes in white and their bizarre faith... and even then, it is indeed bizarre: hard to connect the dots, there.
What we're left with is fairly common (if, there again, bizarrely portrayed) grief that could just as well have been caused by a natural disaster, for instance.

The motivation for choosing to have them vanish is because they vanished, it's a book, it's already decided.
Well, one might also question the decision to adapt that book...
 

StuBurns

Banned
Well, one might also question the decision to adapt that book...
Not 'also', because questioning why they vanish in a TV show based on a book where they vanish isn't worthy of questioning, but sure, if the book warrants adapting or not is a fine topic for debate.

Personally, I think it's an interesting premise, and I can see why Lindelof would be attracted to it. I think the show is bad, but I don't think the book is to blame for that.
 

Erigu

Member
Not 'also', because questioning why they vanish in a TV show based on a book where they vanish isn't worthy of questioning
I agree, I just meant that there would be other ways to look at it. Why adapt that book, and perhaps even why write that book in the first place (that Wikipedia summary doesn't make it sound particularly interesting or pertinent, at least).

Personally, I think it's an interesting premise
I think it had some potential, but I'm not seeing any of it realized. It's very poorly handled.
 

StuBurns

Banned
I agree, I just meant that there would be other ways to look at it. Why adapt that book, and perhaps even why write that book in the first place (that Wikipedia summary doesn't make it sound particularly interesting or pertinent, at least).


I think it had some potential, but I'm not seeing any of it realized. It's very poorly handled.
I feel like the show is squandering it somewhat. The real benefit of having them disappear, instead of die, is the potential that they're alive. Maybe in Heaven, maybe they've been pulled into another dimension by some horrific science experiment gone bad, maybe they were abducted by aliens, who knows, but the point is that there is two ways to look at it when they magically vanish, they're gone, or 'we' are still here.

There's a hypothetical positive to their disappearance, which means there is an innate negative to having been left behind. The show is even called The Leftovers, they should feel like they didn't make the cut, but they really don't so far. There's that conversation about the Pope and Gary Busey, but I personally wanted more of it. That was always Lost's greatest weakness, people wouldn't talk about the extraordinary situation they're in, and given we started this show on the anniversary, the story is only going to get further away from the incident in terms of focus I imagine.

I get that it's a drama, not a sci-fi show, I should really care who Garvey's going to fuck first, Nora or his daughter's friend, but I don't, so far anyway.
 

Erigu

Member
There's a hypothetical positive to their disappearance, which means there is an innate negative to having been left behind.
Is there? I mean, whoever/whatever made them disappear seems to be intelligent (only humans were targeted, that baby disappeared with its clothes, but the baby seat was left behind), so there probably is a positive as far as the responsible is concerned, but beyond that...

The show is even called The Leftovers, they should feel like they didn't make the cut, but they really don't so far. There's that conversation about the Pope and Gary Busey, but I personally wanted more of it.
Well, three years later, nobody seems to have any clue as to why those people disappeared, no apparent pattern or anything... Seems to be a dead end.

I'd say the only actual information they have is that there is something/someone who's interested in humans, is intelligent, and has "god-like" powers (in the sense that it flies in the face of what we know about the laws of physics). That seems like a a pretty big deal to me, something that would certainly change society, and I could be interested in a story trying to explore that (and just that: no need for an actual explanation for that supernatural event). But nope.
If I want a story about people struggling with grief after a disaster randomly takes away some of their loved ones, I have much better options out there...
 

StuBurns

Banned
If I want a story about people struggling with grief after a disaster randomly takes away some of their loved ones, I have much better options out there...
But that's the whole point, it's not just grief, it's the lack of understanding and knowledge of the implication of the event. Massively fewer people died in the holocaust, so it's not literally paralleled, but certainly you could have a show about the aftermath, but there's no mystery, there's just the trauma/grief.

The point of the premise is that society is unable to assimilate the grief because the bizarre manner in which it happened. I think it's a very basic human reaction, not knowing is worse than knowing. If a child never comes home one day and is never heard from again, it's far worse than if they were just found dead, because there's the sense that there could be a positive outcome.

There's also the interesting implication that they exist in a world they have a very incomplete understanding of. We do too really, on a quantum level, we have a very patchy understanding of how things operate, but on a practical level there appears to be no 'magic', there's nothing that doesn't adhere to natural laws. If suddenly, something truly unprecedented happened, on the scale of the incident on the show, it would completely alter people's world view.
 
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