Yeah, the comment about the stares probably isn't why she deleted that tweet/post.
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Group wants anti-harassment policy at Comic-Con
- Thread starter Exile20
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Yeah, the comment about the stares probably isn't why she deleted that tweet/post.
Trust me if I could have gotten away with it I would have. They were not the only girls who got harassed by those guys too which is even sadder.See, THAT'S when you break someone's nose.
No not really.
Not everyone is a creeper scumbag.
But they're out there.
I remember once at a con, there was a guy dressed up as Miroku from Inu Yasha and in his mind, he thought that dressing that way made it perfectly okay for him to go up to women flop on the ground so his head would be between their thighs. Stiletto heels were the instruments of a swift lesson for him.
Sorry if I used the term wrong. *shrugs*
I just meant, a lot of characters IMO seem to be created for a male demographic. So it's kind of jarring to see a lot of women cosplay as characters that are seen by many as being designed just for this purpose. That said, I already realize that my statement was ignorant in that...
I. You can like a character design, but still wish for more diversity (as individuals have their own views on the matter)
II. You can like a character (regardless of design) and still want to cosplay as them.
III. Not all sexuality (or how we view it), should be entirely generalized.
Haloid1177
Banned
I do. I'd respect the shit out of any woman with balls to go to a Con, let alone cosplay.
But the thing is, a lot of adult men aren't, and that goes double for cons. It isn't right, but that's the way it is. I'd love for stricter enforcement on this type of shit, but getting upset over people looking at you is where i draw the line of sympathy.
Shining Sunshine
Banned
Strippers strip at a strip club, not at comicon.
Yeah I don't see why some of them think dressing up as the perv character gives them the right to do that in real life.
David Incorporated Esq.
Member
Well, what she's wearing is going to attract a lot of attention, and for better or worse some people are going to spend a little more time looking than necessary.
It's hard for this to not come off as slut-shaming or anything like that, it's just that wearing something as super revealing as that in such a socially open environment is going to leave yourself open to uninvited looks. Is it her fault that shitty guys made her feel uncomfortable? No, not at all, and it's unfortunate it happened; but hell I can't imagine she thought people weren't going to stare.
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
You're saying strip clubs have less subhumans than Comic-Con.
What is that ridiculous Facebook post an indication of, exactly? Clearly there are issues in that beyond being upset over people looking at her.
Even then. Without the threat (or knowledge of threat) that you can be immediately ejected from the place for crossing said lines
You just don't see it too often. And I've worked in both environments. As a promoter for a few clubs and roughly the same thing for conventions. Every once in a while you'll see the guy who either gets way too attached, the guy who is generally misinformed about how strip clubs work/the guy who feels he's owed something more than a lapdance for the money he's given up - but you never see people walking around with the idea in their head that they're completely immune to common social lanes. Like they're owed a gallery for simply being in the same hallway and allowed to talk to anyone however they feel.
"She's dressed like that - why can't I stare with my mouth open?" (A guy literally did this in the most awkward and dumbfounding way imaginable. 20-something who followed this girl around with his mouth agape for half an hour.)
"Do you mind if I touch?" (He explained that he was being nice about it. We explained that there was no way to say that without it coming off as harassment.)
Strange requests, rude gestures and catcalling, stalking. And its just like... all over the place. Every single time.
I doubt every convention is the same but it just blows my mind how adult entertainment centres have substantially less shit like this happening. IMO of course.
well duh.
Duane Cunningham
Member
Sounds okay to me.
Let's put it this way, and this is just a personal belief.
Sexy should never be the default. Ever.
Sexy should always be an option. Always.
Let the people who want it have it, let the people who don't, not have it be forced on them.
Everyone wins.
I'd say that strip clubs have more patrons that know "the rules" than Comic-con, absolutely.
Haloid1177
Banned
Idea: SDCC hires strippers to cosplay in a particular area where touching is allowed.
Boom.
I just read it that she was upset at the AMOUNT of people who looked at her. Maybe I am missing something, the post wasn't the most coherent in expressing what she was trying to say.
But it is evident by these cons.
Just hire people in who throw out the creepy slimebags.
Omegasquash
Member
It's just why there needs to be policy. Start kicking creeps out of conventions and people will start to think twice. I'm not going to sit here and deny that I wouldn't notice someone not wearing much...it's going to get attention simply because of 1) it's a good costume and 2) I'm a straight male, can't help but notice.
But there's a difference between noticing and ogling. There's a difference between taking pictures and asking if you can take a picture. And looking at people in the eye when you ask.
I don't think that anyone wearing tight/revealing costumes expects to not be seen...shit I'd reckon that getting a compliment in some cases might be nice. A compliment on the level of detail or something. It's OK to be seen. It's not OK to be drooled on, having your body touched, or feel like someone is mentally processing some fantasy that they'd like you to live out for them.
Beerman462
Member
Maybe, maybe not, but strip clubs have strict rules reg adding conduct enforced by a big ass bouncer.
Also those who don't are usually going to leave with a form of punishment (broken face)
Cons need a punishment system in place and they need to work together to do it, like my ban on badge sale idea.
Ehhhh... its not that simple.
Well, it could be but I don't think too many conventions want to cough up the money for the type of security that they'd actually need.
Totally. Physicality aside, at 90% of cons, the only end result of a member of security not doing their job is losing their badge and not being invited back the next year to be security. That's it.
::Shrugs:: What impetus is there for volunteers to do their jobs when things get hot and heavy?
And people do get banned from cons, but it takes a lot. Like...a LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOT. And of course, I've witnessed guests harassing con-goers in the past and they still get invited back every year so...::Shrugs::
Entertainment business be entertainment business.
Do ho ho.
That to, hire some Blackwater types to walk around and be there if someone needs help. And start banning repeat and/over the top offenders
Yeah, it would be a nice courtesy. However, it doesn't seem like a big deal either way. I certainly wouldn't want fifty or a hundred people stopping me and asking me to pose for a picture -- that sounds far more aggravating. I'd rather they snap it without bothering me.
Wise advice. I really appreciate it. I'm sorry if my post came off as judgmental. I admit that, I'm always trying to grow as a person. The last three years I've really learned a lot about issues with sexism in various industries and sometimes I can't get my head around certain things. I think, it's important to not make assumptions about people regardless of their gender. While yes there are issues that are worth discussing, an individual's sexuality and view on sexuality is their own. I shouldn't be making assumptions or generalizations.
Could it be that you've got a bunch of socially inept people who just honestly can't comprehend this stuff?
I've seen it said a few times about pedophiles - that few do it outright for sexual reasons but, rather, believe that they're actually in a relationship with a child and that the child understands it. Here's a clip of what I'm talking about - oddly enough from Opie and Anthony.
It's like they're wired wrong. They just outright can't understand that seeing something sexualized doesn't mean that you're then permitted or even entitled to go and touch them or oogle them.
Obviously this doesn't excuse this behavior, and it should absolutely be banned. I just want to understand why this happens. I just can't fathom that someone who is otherwise rational would go about behaving like this.
I've seen it said a few times about pedophiles - that few do it outright for sexual reasons but, rather, believe that they're actually in a relationship with a child and that the child understands it. Here's a clip of what I'm talking about - oddly enough from Opie and Anthony.
It's like they're wired wrong. They just outright can't understand that seeing something sexualized doesn't mean that you're then permitted or even entitled to go and touch them or oogle them.
Obviously this doesn't excuse this behavior, and it should absolutely be banned. I just want to understand why this happens. I just can't fathom that someone who is otherwise rational would go about behaving like this.
HuskerDutheDu
Member
I have some shocking news for you...they weren't actually trying to read her button.
There gets to be a point where you just have to exert your own personal believes and go with how it makes you feel. Personally, I don't know why anyone would cosplay from Witchblade, that comic, tv show, manga and anime are all terrible. But I'm not going to say that people shouldn't be able to do it because I don't like it. "I may not like what you have to say, but I'll defend with my life your right to say it."
People whine and cry too. Due to the Boston Marathon shenanigans, both people on here and in public flipped out about waiting another few minutes to have their bags checked.
Basically takes something to happen to spend more money in these instances.
that shit ain't cheap
The big ones can afford security, the smaller ones are small enough that a couple of off duty cops will be cheap and effective enough.
True. Often times, change doesn't happen unless something happens; see Anime Boston's lack of a rave. And in such cases, let them whine, or go to a venue that is properly staffed to handle such things.
Though conversely, a friend of mine was harassed by a group of townies because he was dressed up as solid snake and his hotel just happened to be around the corner from where the bombing happened.
::Shrugs::
...naw, that's not true.
Even then, it's little better than a volunteer effort.
Again ideally it would work like this imo
ID checks when getting your badge at con, if you get caught sexually harassing someone you are kicked out and your ID is flagged and put onto a list that all conventions share (big or small) and are banned from going to cons that use that system.
If a person who is flagged wishes to start going back to conventions they can take some class or something and have the flag be removed from their ID. If they are caught doing it again though they are put on a permanent black list.
ID checks when getting your badge at con, if you get caught sexually harassing someone you are kicked out and your ID is flagged and put onto a list that all conventions share (big or small) and are banned from going to cons that use that system.
If a person who is flagged wishes to start going back to conventions they can take some class or something and have the flag be removed from their ID. If they are caught doing it again though they are put on a permanent black list.
chaobreaker
Member
Why did you bring this up? I hope your not implying those "fake nerd girls" deserve all the sexual harassment they get at cons.
For strictly comedic purposes, I would have liked to see this.
Most of the people in the immediate area still have no idea what the convention really is.
I mean, there's a difference between noticing an attractive woman walking past wearing hardly anything, and giving her a serial killer stare and/or following her around. I'd have a hard time believing that that particular cosplayer wasn't expecting the former (and the latter, but for more unfortunate reasons).
EscoBlades
Ubisoft Marketing
Guess what? They don't HAVE to look or stare. Funny how that works.
No, they do not. Which, when you can look down on it from above, is pretty hilarious. I always laugh when someone double books their wedding reception at the same time as Anime Boston. The second AB I ever attended, I accidentally ended up crashing someone's wedding dressed up as Faust from Guilty Gear.
It's kind of a shame though, it's really put him off cosplaying a bit.
Looking up conference harassment stuff on Google and came across this. It looks like good background for the subject of harassment policies at tech and fandom conventions:
Storm Chamber
Banned
damnit man lmao
AbortedWalrusFetus
Member
I would say maybe three strikes each with longer and/or more classes required between. But still, this idea is so simple to execute and would go so far toward fixing the problem it's kind of ridiculous that it hasn't been implemented yet. Combine it with an initiative by the cons to have attendants trained to noticed the bad behavior and and approach the rule breakers for their ID and you've got yourself a winner.
That is amazing and I hope there are pics lol
My gf is doing a Faust cosplay this year for Xrd.....I want to do Robo KY but I don't have enough time D:
There are people, lots of them, with no idea - or want to understand - how they come across.
To some a stare is a stare is a stare.
As an enthusiast photographer myself, this worries me because many people (guys and girls) complain about the photos I've taken of them after uploading them. I'm not new to street photography so I always ask for their consent before I take a few photos but I've definitely had people change their mind later and give me hell for it. Indecent photography laws can be a massive legal grey area depending on where you live because so much of it is subjective. I understand that creeps are a real problem and need to be dealt with harshly but I shouldn't have to ask everyone in a massive crowd for consent before taking a wide angle shot.
It's a huge grey area, always has been.
Physical harassment and verbal harassers need to go though, zero exceptions.
It's a huge grey area, always has been.
Physical harassment and verbal harassers need to go though, zero exceptions.
This is kinda' what I thought was the case. People who are groping literally can/do not comprehend that it wouldn't be allowed.
Storm Chamber
Banned
Theres a joke in here that I cant say on this board
Are you just doing your own thing or were you given some kind of privilege by the event coordinators?
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