GuitarAtomik
Member
I don't think you know what "buzzword" means.
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XBO Cloud Implementation Examples
- Thread starter gamechanger87
- Start date
I don't think you know what "buzzword" means.
I don't think he knows what "snap" is.
EASTC0AST_GH05T
Member
sure I can open apps, and switch between them on the PS4 PS3 and 360. I am "Snapping" on my Vita right now.
No where in my post did I say I was interpreting what cloud computing was nor was the original question asking for an interpretation. The question was about the implementation. Yes...in the end..."cloud computing" is built primarily on a bunch of servers and web services. Currently my team is developing a web based application for a company...to say our implementation of servers and web services (a host to primarily store information and pull from databases) is the same that Microsoft hopes to implement in future games (a host to augment the CPU and perform complex calculations) does not exactly present a one-to-one correlation. I read the question as the person wanting to know how each company plans to use the technology...not what the technology was behind it. Sure Sony can definitely do what it seems Microsoft plans to but (judging from Remote Play and PS Now) it doesn't seem like an avenue they're pursuing.
That's not what snap is.
GuitarAtomik
Member
Ol No Bones
Banned
No you aren't. Lol
EASTC0AST_GH05T
Member
talking to you guys with uncharted golden abyss open and just snapped to my netflix lol "all in one" instance. I am getting all this entertainment in one device and its the vita!
Again, that's not what snap is.
Can you watch Netflix and play uncharted at the exact same time on the same screen?
Nope, then you aren't snapping.
GuitarAtomik
Member
Can't tell if trolling now lol.
EASTC0AST_GH05T
Member
with my PIP settings on my smart tv I sure can. Dig this I can watch football while playing madden as well on a non X1 console lol.
It's not a obnoxious word for multitasking; it's a overlay of the other app on your screen. Some people like it a lot, seems intrusive to me.
Ol No Bones
Banned
I can snap while I listen to the radio. I'm on one station and SNAP! With a turn of the dial Im on another station. Its magical.
This is what I would say if I had no idea what snap was.
This is what I would say if I had no idea what snap was.
i guess they loved the CELL then
Ol No Bones
Banned
GuitarAtomik
Member
I can stream Twitch on my phone and place it next to my PC monitor while I play DOTA! Lol, I'm SNAPPING!
This effing thread is ridiculous
For those really interested in the difference between servers of old and the cloud, the big difference is cost, availability and scalability
None of these things are mutually exclusive. In fact I'd say Sony will be looking for ways to increase usage (and thus revenue) on their own infrastructure over time, offering time to devs for processing would be one way to do it. It's something Gaikai was working on pre-acquisition also.
If hybrid local/remote processing becomes viable and attractive it's something everyone will be doing. Which is good, because it'll make it more likely that it would be used, broaden use cases/knowledge, and help drive down costs.
EASTC0AST_GH05T
Member
Blue oyster
Banned
This made me cry with laughter. Must be only around my city, but we don't use the word snapping in the same context. Such example " was snapping off the other day" .
Actually a lot of these posts are cracking me up.
Okay not only do you not know what snap is, you also have a hard time understanding the word overlay.
GuitarAtomik
Member
Yes. What you're talking about is called "Suspend/Resume".
Are you a snapper? How long have you had this affliction?
EASTC0AST_GH05T
Member
can bring up my party chat as well on the vita and have everything running together simataneously. can bring up my trophies. Are you saying what puts the snap in snap is having everything on the screen together?
It refers to a specific overlay where they reserve GPU time to render the app along side the main application. The feature is about having them side by side on your TV. Not multi-tasking. Not app suspend. Not OS overlay. It's rendering them both at once.
Even though I think it's kind of intrusive, it doesn't change the fact it isn't the things you're referring to.
Ol No Bones
Banned
Snap is an OS feature exclusive to Xbox. That's why they talk about it. Whether its the most useful thing is another matter. The Xbox can also multitask probably better than most devices really. People are just pointing out that you went on about something you really didn't understand.
I dont live in the US. And PSNow is not really Cloud computing in the same manner as what is being discussed as "power of the cloud"
With PSNow the entire process is handled in the cloud, the entire game every single calculation is done remotely, The only thing sent to the receiver is an audio/video stream and the only thing sent up is the input from the controls.
In this manner everything functions at the same rate and their's a reasonable expectation of connectivity. You never have to download a game, you simply launch and play.
With the Cloud we are talking about today. The entire game is running locally and small chunks of processing is being done remotely via the cloud. The difficulty in this is, if you send a calculation to the cloud, will it return in time to update the system.
Think of pop in buildings in Grand theft auto. You are driving and what looks like an open space all of a sudden a building pops in and you crash
This is what happens when geometry gets drawn too late.
For this reason, most if not all devs have said "fk it, it would be stupid to do physical geometry in the cloud" so it seems like they will be doing more affects, things that are pretty to look at, but have no physical effect on the world or its characters, this way if the computation returns too late it will either have no effect or they can just throw away the data. But Gamers seem to be concerned that their game experience will differ drastically depending on their connection speed to the datacenter.
EASTC0AST_GH05T
Member
aw snap guess you guys are winning thats OP dude.
Keep winning dude.
Oh snap!
I dont live in the US. And PSNow is not really Cloud computing in the same manner as what is being discussed as "power of the cloud"
With PSNow the entire process is handled in the cloud, the entire game every single calculation is done remotely, The only thing sent to the receiver is an audio/video stream and the only thing sent up is the input from the controls.
In this manner everything functions at the same rate and their's a reasonable expectation of connectivity. You never have to download a game, you simply launch and play.
With the Cloud we are talking about today. The entire game is running locally and small chunks of processing is being done remotely via the cloud. The difficulty in this is, if you send a calculation to the cloud, will it return in time to update the system.
Think of pop in buildings in Grand theft auto. You are driving and what looks like an open space all of a sudden a building pops in and you crash
This is what happens when geometry gets drawn too late.
For this reason, most if not all devs have said "fk it, it would be stupid to do physical geometry in the cloud" so it seems like they will be doing more effects, things that are pretty to look at, but have no physical effect on the world or its characters, this way if the computation returns too late it will either have no effect or they can just throw away the data. But Gamers seem to be concerned that their game experience will differ drastically depending on their connection speed to the datacenter.
Crackdown building destruction will be done in the cloud.
The design diverts system resources to do it. PC's do multi-tasking better, 2 screens and ample power is much better than subdividing one screen and diverting power from a somewhat under powered device.
Or they could save millions, hundreds of man hours, and a lot of inevitable launch head ache and just pre-compute it and store it on disk.
I dont live in the US. And PSNow is not really Cloud computing in the same manner as what is being discussed as "power of the cloud"
With PSNow the entire process is handled in the cloud, the entire game every single calculation is done remotely, The only thing sent to the receiver is an audio/video stream and the only thing sent up is the input from the controls.
In this manner everything functions at the same rate and their's a reasonable expectation of connectivity. You never have to download a game, you simply launch and play.
With the Cloud we are talking about today. The entire game is running locally and small chunks of processing is being done remotely via the cloud. The difficulty in this is, if you send a calculation to the cloud, will it return in time to update the system.
Think of pop in buildings in Grand theft auto. You are driving and what looks like an open space all of a sudden a building pops in and you crash
This is what happens when geometry gets drawn too late.
For this reason, most if not all devs have said "fk it, it would be stupid to do physical geometry in the cloud" so it seems like they will be doing more effects, things that are pretty to look at, but have no physical effect on the world or its characters, this way if the computation returns too late it will either have no effect or they can just throw away the data. But Gamers seem to be concerned that their game experience will differ drastically depending on their connection speed to the datacenter.
There are so many incorrect things in this post i almost don't know where to begin
First off what is happening in GTA is not at all related to this. This is because the 360 and the ps3 have low amounts of ram so they have to use streaming textures. Sometimes they don't stream the correct texture in time and that is what happened in this gif. The xbox one and ps4 versions will not have this issue because of large amounts of ram.
Secondly how this cloud computation works would not cause such an effect. The textures would always be on the console, not streaming from the cloud. They would load but perhaps their interaction (ie their being crushed by a ball) would come from the cloud.
Thirdly your statement "I don't live in the us" is probably saying that because of your location you are nowhere near the servers that would do this rendering, therefore you would miss out or this game would be unplayable or severely handicapped for you
This is a list of azure data centers and their average latency to me in the US. As you can see there are data centers covering nearly every place on earth there are internet connections (Africa being the exception). I bet you live near enough to a data center to have a decent ping. And this will only improve in the next few years.
EASTC0AST_GH05T
Member
justsomeguy
Member
GuitarAtomik
Member
Pre canned destruction vs dynamic destruction of absolutely anything and everything sounds utterly rubbish
Have you played batllefield 4? That precanned destruction is not something we want forever...it is super scripted and always looks the same...nothing dynamic at all
Caayn
Member
I partially agree. Both PS Now and Thunderhead compatible games will suffer from "hick-ups" that's just due to the current state of the internet.I dont live in the US. And PSNow is not really Cloud computing in the same manner as what is being discussed as "power of the cloud"
With PSNow the entire process is handled in the cloud, the entire game every single calculation is done remotely, The only thing sent to the receiver is an audio/video stream and the only thing sent up is the input from the controls.
In this manner everything functions at the same rate and their's a reasonable expectation of connectivity. You never have to download a game, you simply launch and play.
With the Cloud we are talking about today. The entire game is running locally and small chunks of processing is being done remotely via the cloud. The difficulty in this is, if you send a calculation to the cloud, will it return in time to update the system.
Think of pop in buildings in Grand theft auto. You are driving and what looks like an open space all of a sudden a building pops in and you crash
This is what happens when geometry gets drawn too late.
For this reason, most if not all devs have said "fk it, it would be stupid to do physical geometry in the cloud" so it seems like they will be doing more affects, things that are pretty to look at, but have no physical effect on the world or its characters, this way if the computation returns too late it will either have no effect or they can just throw away the data. But Gamers seem to be concerned that their game experience will differ drastically depending on their connection speed to the datacenter.
A hick-up in a Thunderhead compatible game will cause the game to have some part of it out of sync during that hick-up. With PS Now the entire will game will pause. Neither is something that you want.
The example gif with GTA V is something that we'll see happen with both cloud based and local games, open-world games will suffer more from this. And you couldn't pick a better example to push your argument, GTA V suffers more from memory limitations, which causes those pop-ups, than anything else.
Sorry I thought you lived in the US from looking at your profile.
Possible that it uses pre-canned animations while not connected and use dynamic destruction when the user is connected. And I'd much rather have dynamic than static.
Pre canned destruction vs dynamic destruction of absolutely anything and everything sounds utterly rubbish
I'm sure they could make pre-canne animations simulate 'dynamic' destruction but just applying a few calculations then combining a set of canned animations to make it seem dynamic. It would still be cheaper than involving an engineering feat to make cloud calcs work out for a millions of users at launch.
Given time they can make it better. A subset of the work you'd need to make ti cloud computer can be used to make better more dynamic canned animations and effects.
Or you can just have more oomph in the first place and use spare GPU cycles to do GPGPU calculations and do it locally for real... Wait that sounds like what a major competitor is doing...
Wasn't saying it'll never happen, just that it doesn't seem like something they're pursuing heavily at the moment.
I understand how you could technically support remote calculation for certain things, like the building destruction in crackdown for instance. There are lots of ways you can mitigate for low bandwidth,latency etc. eg missile being fired would take time to hit the target, giving the server time to calculate and return initial results. Interpolating between data points means you can have a relatively low update rate, which also reduces bandwidth. But all of this takes effort. You have to do all this complex work to handle the data coming in, and then handle all situations where there is no connection (as alluded to in the OP quotes). At a time when development costs are escalating, is that a burden you really want to put on developers?
I also find it hard to square the sheer amount of compute required when you apply these complex situations across thousands of simultaneous games being played (possibly hundreds of thousands if you start doing this in multiple games). And the cloud has not historically been a compute-centric area, more around file storage and serving. Just that logistical shift is what gives me pause on this.
I also find it hard to square the sheer amount of compute required when you apply these complex situations across thousands of simultaneous games being played (possibly hundreds of thousands if you start doing this in multiple games). And the cloud has not historically been a compute-centric area, more around file storage and serving. Just that logistical shift is what gives me pause on this.
Take a building, assume that impacts on each side will make a different collapse. Take those 4, run them through a simulation with slightly different parameters 3 times. Store the 12 animations and locations of debris etc... on disk, call up when they blow up the building.
You don't need to store every way a building falls, just the game play relevant differences.
That's the art of video games, use finite resources to reasonably simulate things.
LukasTaves
Member
I think you misunderstood me.
A server in Azure (and many others cloud solutions) are virtualized. They have the hardware always running, but each real machine can run one or even more virtual machines at the same time. And you can literally go to have not a single instance of your server running to have many of them spread across many machines at will. Ms even have pricing plans that allows you just to pay a price per hour of actual usage.
You just need a reasonable amount of detail to make a convincing scene. They can grind a computer to it's knees with just badly optimized code; it doesn't mean much. They aren't going to throw that much computing power at each user. A building collapse can just have fewer moving chunks and more obscuring smoke. They'd need the smoke for cloud calcs anyways to obscure the 3-10 frame time delay.
Yea you mean that *high end* PC that dropped framerate like crazy when they accidentally moved to an empty space but magically regained framerate when things are in view. I'm sure that was a legit *demo.*
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