-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Phil Spencer on indie parity clause "I want people to feel like they're first class"
- Thread starter Kayant
- Start date
What? The reason why there are indie exclusives in the first is because self-publishing is another thing MS 180'ed on. Before that you couldn't self publish at all.
One allows you to self pub. The other doesn't. Where do you go?
By default you're going to work on the PS4 first so why not take the pub fund cash?
serversurfer
Member
I've already made it clear what I consider to be anticompetitive. You're looking for a specific definition you can defeat through pedantry, but again, semantic acrobatics don't impress me. Wrong is wrong.
And I don't disagree with the legal definition of anticompetitive. I just don't try to pretend it's comprehensive, either in a legal sense, or in a "common use" sense. What I do disagree with it the implication that because their behavior isn't explicitly illegal, it's perfectly acceptable and/or not worthy of debate.
Why do you think it's wrong? I think it's wrong because Microsoft are pressuring their suppliers in to shorting Microsoft's competition, thereby eliminating said competition's legitimate advantage. To me, that's anticompetitive, and therefore, wrong.
I should hang around GAF more. Most people still don't know how I argue. 'Tis a shame.
In any case, I more or less didn't ask to strike a pedantic argument. I was aiming for establishing a common ground and then working from it. Take from that what you will, I suppose.
BlackBuzzard
Banned
SwiftDeath
Member
To be fair that one in particular was a response to Nathan Fillion's PS4 one
http://wac.7725.edgecastcdn.net/807725/website/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/JCn7mtJ.jpg
Still not really sure why anyone would feel the need to do it at all though
Mass Effect
Member
Damn, what was Amir0x banned for?
Wow. This thread is really bringing out the nastiness.
Jesus.
Wow. This thread is really bringing out the nastiness.
For forcing a large serving of TRUTH PIE down BruiserBear's throat in his usual rambunctious OTT style.
...what?
Fuck indies, amirite?
smh, I really hope that tweet was in jest, Speedy.
serversurfer
Member
In this post, you seem to be arguing that because Microsoft's policy wasn't 100% successful, it can't be considered anticompetitive. Actually, right at the end, you made a subtle shift to it not being "anti-consumer," but yeah, it's anti-consumer too; they're hurting their own development partners, they're hurting their competition, they're hurting their competitor's customers, and thanks to the backfire they're hurting their own customers too.
The policy is in place solely to unfairly hamstring their competition. That's anti-competetive, regardless of the actual effectiveness of the policy.
machemachete
Banned
Actually the Xbox 360 was the first console with an indies program with Xbox arcade, Playstation catched up later.
Ahahahah. Oh man. I didn't even see that I did that. Thanks for pointing that out.
Oh now, I won't go back and fix it. Let the mistake stand. Probably edit in that it was a mistake on my part.
I'd like to also state that I concede. My argument was weak, anyway.
serversurfer
Member
Umm, I'm not sure you understand how the Internet is supposed to work
Seriously though, kudos; that was very big of you. <3
Speedy Blue Dude
Banned
Meh, I'm not embarrassed about what I said. I don't find indies to be a big deal, nor do I worry about them. Parity Clause doesn't effect me.
Jesus.
Remember when arcade games, aka higher budgeted indie games were the bread and butter of being a Xbox 360/Xbox owner? Summer of Arcade? Smaller titles that were given the chance to shine and prosper in the new digital age?
Yeah, that era ended pretty damn quickly. Its not as if Microsoft was willing to accommodate and help smaller devs make or publish arcade games, there were plenty of restrictions and issues behind the scenes. But there was a time where smaller digital titles were a huge selling point of being a 360 owner. Sony caught up fast last gen, and now are smoking Microsoft when it comes to being a main console to release a indie game for.
It feels like Microsoft doesn't want to commit to strategies that seemingly work but require more out of them. Tons of half measures when it comes to making the Xbox One legitimately appealing for the hardcore audience.
"I'm actually apathetic even though I'm really defensive."
Yeah, that era ended pretty damn quickly. Its not as if Microsoft was willing to accommodate and help smaller devs make or publish arcade games, there were plenty of restrictions and issues behind the scenes. But there was a time where smaller digital titles were a huge selling point of being a 360 owner. Sony caught up fast last gen, and now are smoking Microsoft when it comes to being a main console to release a indie game for.
It feels like Microsoft doesn't want to commit to strategies that seemingly work but require more out of them. Tons of half measures when it comes to making the Xbox One legitimately appealing for the hardcore audience.
"I'm actually apathetic even though I'm really defensive."
boredandlazy
Member
Not worrying about them and calling them "small shitty indie games" are two completely different things.
Being a selfish twat is something you should be embarrassed about, but considering the crap you seem to post on a regular basis it doesn't surprise me that'd you'd wear it like a badge of honour.
shacklesmcgee
Member
Yet you make #NoOneCaresAboutIndies? Just because you feel like hating one thousands of different games just because they are "indie", doesn't mean no one cares about indies. And you should try and have the same demeanor on Twitter as you do here, otherwise you come off as a sad two faced fanboy.
You know the whole world can see your tweets, yeah? That your work colleagues and family can view them?
Man, you should be embarrassed. I mean, I know what you're like, and that lovin' Xbox is your shtick, but even I feel embarrassed for you.
You should see me argue about topics in which I have much more vested interest. Once I'm rooted on a side, trying to convince me of anything is like attempting to move an elephant's decaying carcass with a twig.
SwiftDeath
Member
affect, not effect
It's very childish to term a whole segment of game development [not even a genre, but a whole segment] as "shitty". There are thousands of indie games I'm sure, terming a large portion of the smaller ones as "shitty" is simply rude to all those individuals trying to bring their dream games to life.
If I was a indie dev I would be pretty pissed about somebody hash tagging "NoOneCaresAboutIndies". Pretty fucking disrespectful, and shows a lack of understanding of the current videogame landscape.
Neuromancer
Member
It's ok, we're all embarrassed about what you said for you. Some call it wahjah.
If I were an indie dev, I'd have bigger things to worry about than one dude being a butt.
Now this has gone viral, Speedy's going to upset a lot of people with it. I mean, just look at how the hashtag is trending.
Okay? Tons of indie devs and devs are on this site. Seeing a fanboy flaunt how I can't release my own software on a console because of weird bullshit would be pretty shitty. Can we not address shitty attitudes?
Now this has gone viral, Speedy's going to upset a lot of people with it. I mean, just look at how the hashtag is trending.
There can only be One.
boredandlazy
Member
"It doesn't affect me so I don't care (Disclaimer: I care enough to act like a inimical troll on Twitter)".
Such as one of the major console manufacturers being a butt.
The man in the second quote is someone you should listen to.
Speedy Blue Dude
Banned
My Friends and Family don't follow my SpeedyBlueDude Twitter, or anything I label SpeedyBlueDude.
I use entirely different accounts for professional reasons. Not like I care either... My entry level job isn't going to background check me and look at my tweets/GAF posts, and if they do, I'll be honest. It's just video games. The way I present and sell myself at school, work, and in real life is different than GAF or Twitter.
I'm not embarrassed of anything. If you look deeper into it, you'll see almost everything is hyperbolic and exaggerated on purpose. Or even that I'm parodying or mocking something else.
Picture of me sleeping with my Xbox One? Parody of Nathan Fillion sleeping with his PS4.
My March NPD Reactions? Stated in the Tweet before I was joking.
My "crying pictures" from my GAF ban, and the picture of my Xbox Comforting me? Made clear with the tweets before I'm joking and only doing this because I know Some of you guys will look at them and either get a laugh or cringe.
I'm not embarrassed of what I willingly put in public. I know Twitter are just mediums for me to discuss my hobby, is isn't serious and I don't take it seriously.
I'm young, I'm having fun and living my life and enjoying it. My opinions on Indies and Video Gaming in general is a separate part of my "life" I don't pay much mind or attention too.
serversurfer
Member
That's too bad. You should try to be more objective. If your beliefs are valid, they should be able to withstand a little scrutiny.
Don't take my noxious fanboy garbage that pollutes discussion serious. I'm Just Kidding
You are young clearly because this defense is fucking childish.
Thanks for letting me know that indie devs worry about other, bigger things. I would've never known.
shacklesmcgee
Member
This gives you permission to shit on all indie games? Being young doesn't mean you get to be a prick, then say "Oh I was joking, besides they're just games"
I don't think you understand how Twitter works. If you've used your real name, your SpeedyBlueDude account shows up at the top of a Google search.
And if you think that prospective employers (or partners for that matter) don't do basic Google search background checks, you're wildly naive.
SwiftDeath
Member
The difference between your previously embarrassing tweets and actions even when hyperbolic and/or exaggeration and now is that before you were basically making a fool of yourself while now you are doing that and also calling a large section of indie games shit which is incredibly rude to people who make those games and spend large chunks of their lives trying to make those types of games. We as gamers should strive to respect those who most likely care most about game design and furthering the medium, the independent developers who often make their games without adequate compensation, glory or fame.
You kids and your strange new ways of having fun.
BruiserBear
Banned
Do you know who really doesn't like it? People who don't own XB1's.
He was banned for this post, which had nothing to do with me, but you can make up whatever version suits your fancy.
That's too bad. You should try to be more objective. If your beliefs are valid, they should be able to withstand a little scrutiny.
You'd think that, but I'm not a very, eh, /responsible/ person when it comes to debates. Besides, when I lose, I just start having fun with logic.
Oh, come off the sarcasm, bro. In the typical escape of comedy, I'm only joking. This is where you're supposed to say that I'm not a very funny person.
I'll agree with you on that.
Don't take this bait, new people to the discussion. BruiserBear doesn't intend on having an actual conversation about why it concerns everyone or how everyone is allowed to discuss an issue. He has had the issue explained to him countless times but he'd rather wear a pot on his head and hit it with a spoon until the bad people stop talking.
RedNumberFive
Banned
Listen to this man.
I'm shocked he's still saying that after having so much evidence and facts thrown his way throughout this thread.
Like holy shit. This level of denseness is usually found in harem mangas!
Dude, you're super fucking gross.
think it funny people saying indie dont matter when MS just spent billions on an "indie" game.
lol this got me.
lol this got me.
All the hard work and effort I've put into promoting the Age of One, and the one in All-in-One, to all of GAF means little when you and Spencer are undoing my work. It takes me hours and hours to build a dynasty, but it crumbles in seconds when you are careless.
It's okay though. I'll just take this as another obstacle to overcome on the road to Oneness.
Aight, I get where you're coming from then. I was starting to assume you were defending a toxic attitude, when that isn't the case.
So you're only out for yourself and don't care how others are effected. Got it.
Short of using language found on Simple English Wikipedia or the best charades performance ever, I'm out of ideas on how to reach BruiserBear on page 27. If anyone else wants to take up challenging the Deep Blue of Willing Ignorance, I warn you: he plays the game better than anyone else.
Similar threads
- Locked
- Poll