You're also assuming that someone like Mr Yamagiwa is aware that the players have very specific things they want to hear. It's clear from this thread that it's not what you saywe've known for a long while now that From is targeting 30fpsit's how you say it.
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Bloodborne Producer: Targeting 30fps for "Game Design" purposes
- Thread starter Guerrilla
- Start date
You're also assuming that someone like Mr Yamagiwa is aware that the players have very specific things they want to hear. It's clear from this thread that it's not what you saywe've known for a long while now that From is targeting 30fpsit's how you say it.
GIANKRATOS
Member
Just why. Bad translation maybe?
It looks better for sure. It still doesn't go into lifelike territory. It's mainly the art-style that's changed rather then the graphical quality.
My point was that they should have been able to hit 60FPS on PS4. If Kamiya can hit 60FPS on Bayo 2 on significantly less powerful hardware then there is no excuse why FROM couldn't hit 60.
Holy hell... I can't imagine a fighting game at 30FPS and it remain popular. Just look at JoJo, no one even talks about that game anymore.
"We're shooting for 30FPS because, whew, holy shit. This shit's hard yo. Fuck. Can we do 10FPS? Think we can get away with that? We can probably hit 10, give or take 20% most of the time. But 60? No way. 30 is better. The best, actually. We did studies. With science. "
I don't even know what you are trying to prove here. You can ride a bicycle one-handed, whoop-dee-fucking-doo?
Leafhopper
Banned
Seems silly, I mean I didn't expect a straight solid framerate mind you but fucking hell actually wanting 30 FPS is silly man. Playing Dark Souls on PC has made it so that's the only way I can even enjoy those kinds of games.
This is coming from someone who doesn't usually get in these FPS arguments.
This is coming from someone who doesn't usually get in these FPS arguments.
Maybe they truly believe it.
Mihael Mello Keehl
Banned
30fps is not cool but the reason why was even less cool
Bl@de
Member
Yes I always expected it looking at past experiences on the PS3. They use frametimes in gamelogic. And Bloodbourne will most likely be the same because of the engine and developers. Its stupid but okay ... Japanese devs sometimes do that. Still their games are freaking awesome and unique. I will definetly get a PS4 for bloodbourne at some point in 2015/2016.
UnlovedJew
Member
I don't understand why developers can't just take their games' limitations in stride. This statement just sounds comical, if not mistranslated.
Mobile Suit Gooch
Grundle: The Awakening
What?
EDIT: 30 fps isn't bad but damn.
TeddyShardik
Banned
My first thought was : No, not you too, From! :'(
But then when you consider they stupidly tie game mechanics to the framerate all the time maybe it isn't that wrong in this case. Yeah I'm going with that as what he meant....
But then when you consider they stupidly tie game mechanics to the framerate all the time maybe it isn't that wrong in this case. Yeah I'm going with that as what he meant....
Principate
Saint Titanfall
Or rather they want us to believe so that their lives would be easier and we wouldn't call them out on their bullshit. That FEEL of a better playing game.
Banana Aeon
Member
One, Kamiya didn't work on Bayo 2. Two, Bayo 2 sometimes hits 60. Like, when nothing is happening. It's a dreadful tech experience. Three, Bloodborne also looks significantly better than Bayonetta 2. And lastly, From Soft is not a good technical developer.
I figured that this is what Japan Studio was brought in to do, but what do I know. I just hope it's locked at 30 now, and they don't try lying to us again.
Big? There is an impact, sure. Most people played the first Bayonetta with a terribad framerate and still thought it was one of the best gamer ever. And more relevant to this: the framerate in Dark Souls PS3 was crap as well and still people manage to make amazing dodges constantly, parry everything etc. For most games and their gameplay speed attack openings and reaction time limits are well covered within 30 fps. For a lot of games, I think the impact of 30 fps on the aesthetics is larger than the impact on the functionality of the gameplay. Not to say 60 is not better, though.
gigantor21
Member
The notion that 60fps would actually make an action game worse will never be more than laughable PR spin in my book.
Portugeezer
Gold Member
Bayo 2 is not locked 60fps and graphics look last gen.
Bloodborne shits over Dark Souls 2 graphics.
I guess if they made Bloodborne look last gen at 1080p it would run at 60fps, but they didn't choose that. They wanted better graphics, and they have been happy to work on 30fps games before.
Refreshment.01
Member
Not true what exactly? That post wasn't a claim about higher frame count not enhancing the experience, what it was claiming is that 30 fps is enough to have an adequate gameplay experience withouth any gameplay compromising control response in "Soul" type of games.
Notice that i went as low as 22 fps and the game worked fine. Estable 60 would have been dream like for Borne but if FromSoft can't sustain that treshhold constantly then might as well go for a locked 30.
NullPointer
Member
Well that is important, because you can get a sense of motivations behind their decision making and what they think of the audience that keeps up with these articles and quotes about the game in the first place.
Intentions matter, framing the issues matter, and treating your audience with respect matters, and it seems that a lot of these producers just flub when it comes to this when they could honestly tell the truth.
When Insomniac explained their decision making behind 900p in Sunset Overdrive they didn't spout marketing points or talk about how it was the best for action games - they said they tried both resolutions internally, play-tested each, found that they could draw a lot more stuff at 900p and that they preferred to draw more stuff. Done. That's not being patronizing or selling their game short or shifting blame or trying to convince people that it makes no difference.
That's the way to do it imho, because if you can't give a straight answer that rings true, its easy to assume the true motives or decision-making wasn't above board.
You don't know that most people would prefer crisp graphics over 60fps.
I think if you just asked them straight up, you might be right, but a lot of people have probably never experienced a Souls game at 60fps and I think the outcome might be different if the question was answered after trying out the two options rather than just choosing which they *think* they want. Its very easy to not know what you're missing when it comes to performance. Many people were very surprised how much TLOU was improved with 60fps. And as somebody who loves 60fps, I'm sure I don't know what I'm missing with 120fps because I've only ever briefly experienced it. I bet if I spent more time with 120fps, my opinions might shift a bit, which is what being informed often does.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Better for marketing at least. >.>
So far this gen seems more like next hype than next gen. For me fluidity of movement is more impressive than polygon count.
CadetMahoney
Member
The more ppl that say it the more true it is.
While I wouldn't call Bayonetta 2 a horrible tech experience it certainly isn't the smoothest, I also agree that visually Bloodborne is at a level they chose that is holding back 60fps but hopefully not steady 30fps. Let's face it two awesome Japanese devs happen to have some issues with framerate but the games will be great ;_; I refuse to crucify the game as a whole for one silly Producer statement it's not like we didn't know 30 was the target also. Silly statement aside, how much better 60fps aside game looks great.
That part I can agree with. It's just that the thread ending up being more about parity rather than BS PR excuses for design choices.Well imo it's the same crap.
Ubisoft: "60fps is really good for a shooter, action adventure game not so much. It actually feels better for people when it's at 30fps."
Bloodborne producer: "they will probably go for 30fps since thats what they found to be the best fps (frames-per-second) to play action games.
NullPointer
Member
Also true. Just look at how many changed minds there were (both on GAF and other gaming sites) when The Last of Us came out at 60fps.
SCEJ is not developing Bloodborne. They're publishing it and I am certain that theyre using their personnel resources to test it for improving the play experience, but if you're asking "does From have access to Guerilla's tech" then no. The development side is external, and handled by From Software.
That is some damn smooth 60fps that never drops. Don't mind me, I won't let reality ruin what I think the game is my head.
/s
Thanks for pointing out the hypocrisy of bayo 2 players. And to the point here did anyone really think FROM was going to get anywhere near 60fps? I don't even from a perspective that they enjoy graphics over fps, but the fact that every souls game has had 30 ish (when lucky) fps, and when reports from the alpha were coming out with bad fps. Let FROM get to 30 and hope they maintain it, that is what a realistic person would have been thinking all along.
FleckSplat
Member
PR nightmare.
The better way to phrase it would have been, "we're targeting 30 frames per second so we can include amazing graphical effects that make the game look so much better." Such as tesselation, etc.
At least that would be a true explanation.
The better way to phrase it would have been, "we're targeting 30 frames per second so we can include amazing graphical effects that make the game look so much better." Such as tesselation, etc.
At least that would be a true explanation.
GuiltyBystander
Banned
Bloodborne? 60 fps? Easy:
Hahaha, that's awesome.
Principate
Saint Titanfall
I never got that sense from Bloodborne as a whole. It certainly seems like a game that if they tried they could get it to run at a higher fps than it does.
Portugeezer
Gold Member
The critically acclaimed 40fps action game.
Banana Aeon
Member
The game will be great, and Bayonetta 2 is great. It's a shame that the framerate isn't but the games will make up for my future headaches (I am very sensitive to framerates)
And for Bayonetta 2 to lack any AA, the average framerate indicates something went wrong.
Stiler
Member
You would think, of all people, the people that MAKE the games would understand fps and how it impacts games and that it's not anything like a "movie" or such.
Sigh.
Really is the "best" for action games, I'm sure all of us that played Dark souls LOVED the low fps, especially in Blightown, that is the best fps for action games, it isn't like you need to be able to quickly move or react to things in split seconds.
Not like the game throws traps or surprises at you and you have to quickly react to them and a split second of low fps/stutter could possibly mess that up, nope.
Sigh.
Really is the "best" for action games, I'm sure all of us that played Dark souls LOVED the low fps, especially in Blightown, that is the best fps for action games, it isn't like you need to be able to quickly move or react to things in split seconds.
Not like the game throws traps or surprises at you and you have to quickly react to them and a split second of low fps/stutter could possibly mess that up, nope.
KillerMan91
Member
It's a From game with easily the biggest budget they have ever had and as a big first party release. They probably get tons of help from other SCE studios if they need. Sure it still could have rather awfull framerate but there is definitely a big chance that it could be their first ''souls'' game with solid 30 fps on a console.
KINGofCRA5H
Member
My guess is the devs are trying to push a lot of eye candy in the game, and in turn are unable to get close to 60fps. So instead of just saying that, they are trying to put a spin on why 30fps is good/better/best. Obviously it doesn't make sense I'm just thinking out loud here.
I guess if you say something enough, people might accept it as truth eventually.
I do know because there's evidence on display everywhere you look. If players largely wanted smooth frame rates over high resolutions, cloth physics, lighting, AI or whatever compromises would have to be made, then the market would respond and developers would prioritize frame rates. There have been enough games made at 30fps to show pretty clearly where the preferences lie.
Windom Earle
Member
Bayonetta 2 has really bad performance. Bad game to cite as an example.
Yeah... Started playing Bayo 1 on Wii U and it runs like crap. Hard to imagine that Bayo 2 is even worse. SMH Platinum games.
Banana Aeon
Member
I know that all Japan Studio is doing is developing, but I still figured that they could help out with any tech issues, especially when you have a developer that is known for having badly optimized games.
drotahorror
Member
Devs really need to stop saying things like this. If your game is 30fps, say it's 30fps because that's what you were able to achieve with the current fidelity.