This is social connected world we live in, it's nothing like pre Internet days. Even before the Internet people knew what console had the best graphics. The kids in my children's school knows ps4 has better graphics MS hardware choices will haunt them this generation.
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Techspot 'Xbox One's struggles are traceable to one bad decision'
- Thread starter jelly
- Start date
This is social connected world we live in, it's nothing like pre Internet days. Even before the Internet people knew what console had the best graphics. The kids in my children's school knows ps4 has better graphics MS hardware choices will haunt them this generation.
KillerMan91
Member
And with PS3 at least in Europe. March 2007 launch price was 599 (there was no 20gb sku in Europe) and then in fall 2007 they introduced 40gb model with price of 399. Even in US it kinda happened. $499 20gb sku was extremely limited during the launch and they soon phased it out ( I guess they lost too much money with it) and left only $599 sku in the market. Then in fall came 40 gb model with that $399 price point.
ReBurn
Gold Member
I don't think that anyone seriously expected the Xbox to wipe the floor with the PS4. If they launched the same day with the same price I think that people would expect the PS4 to perform better. The Playstation brand has wider global appeal.
Even if that is true, which is debatable, the consumer doesn't care, they will want the best deal, the best product, maybe the average consumer doesn't know what 1080p and 900p mean, but if you tell them to pick one they will always pick the one that is bigger, unless there is a massive difference in price
panda-zebra
Banned
Thanks for that technical insight.
I disagree for the most part because the most highly sought-after games will be multiplats so in that case the system that can run these multiplats best will sell best.
The Inventor
Member
Stopped reading at ""DDR5"".
AyaisMUsikWhore
Member
I'm not pessimistic. I don't think that they will "lose" theres no such thing as losing if you are actively selling and if you are not going out of business because you aren't losing.
Look, Microsoft has a good plan moving forward. They do look like they are dedicated to delivering their vision to the people they owe it the most to, their gamers.
Obviously they have to work hard for it, and they are. But one misstep is not doom for them. The Xbox One is still a fine system, and I love mine. I'm sure owners of one love theirs as well.
I think their struggling is behind them and they are moving forward to changing that tune.
Look, Microsoft has a good plan moving forward. They do look like they are dedicated to delivering their vision to the people they owe it the most to, their gamers.
Obviously they have to work hard for it, and they are. But one misstep is not doom for them. The Xbox One is still a fine system, and I love mine. I'm sure owners of one love theirs as well.
I think their struggling is behind them and they are moving forward to changing that tune.
Megatron
Member
Not at all true anymore. These days there is no such thing as a third party exclusive so all the consoles get basically all the games with only first party really differentiating them. Since the consoles have 80% the same library it makes sense to choose the one that plays those games better.
DidntKnowJack
Member
Wrong. Dead fucking wrong. It had little to do with RAM and ALL to do with DRM policies, online requirements, check ins, price, etc. And it continues to struggle because all of that BS instilled a ton of mistrust for the brand.
I think they have the ability to turn things around, however.
If you close one eye does that rise to 99.9%?
Unknown One
Member
I never believed it, MS had no chance in Europe in beating Sony. Maybe in the US and UK. Everywhere else was Sony dominated even with a year head start.
Krisprolls
Banned
Xbox struggle is not about ONE bad decision. There were tons of bad decisions. It was comically bad at times.
Not respecting the consumer, making him pay for online (now Sony does it too), deliberately chosing a weak hardware, pricing too high and accepting huge default rates earlier (Xbox 360). The lack of exclusives on 360 later years too (because unlike Sony they didn't want to invest in studios)... They destroyed their own brand before it was fully built.
They overestimated the brand they had built. Xbox brand has always been pretty weak outside the US and the UK. Playstation was a worldwide brand.
But overall, Sony mostly killed them with their exclusive games, that's the single thing. On the long run, even if Xbox One was as powerful, people go where games are.
MS certainly did a lot better recently though. So maybe there's a hope for the next one.
Not respecting the consumer, making him pay for online (now Sony does it too), deliberately chosing a weak hardware, pricing too high and accepting huge default rates earlier (Xbox 360). The lack of exclusives on 360 later years too (because unlike Sony they didn't want to invest in studios)... They destroyed their own brand before it was fully built.
They overestimated the brand they had built. Xbox brand has always been pretty weak outside the US and the UK. Playstation was a worldwide brand.
But overall, Sony mostly killed them with their exclusive games, that's the single thing. On the long run, even if Xbox One was as powerful, people go where games are.
MS certainly did a lot better recently though. So maybe there's a hope for the next one.
R and D for the new consoles generally starts three years out. I never said they should have started on a successor in 2011, they should have released one in 2011. They should have been in full R and D mode by 2008. They could have buried Sony with a console on a normal refresh cycle last gen, but they let them stay on the ropes and then Sony managed a knockout blow with the PS4.
Clarkus Darkus
Member
Pretty much this for me and my friends, We was all Xbox the last 10 years but after that initial first impression of the x1 it was just no chance we was going to stick with MS, And switching back to playstation wasnt a problem as we all was ps1 fanantics and probably for me personally the ps1 was the golden era in gaming.
denshuu
Member
This. It's pretty surprising to see people who actually believe that a slight difference in hardware capability decides any console race. I have a 3DS, a DS, a PS2, and a PSX in my entertainment center right now. All of them sold higher than their competitors. None of them have better hardware, let alone more RAM than their competing platforms.
The reason they have had to do bundle so frequently is that even at price parity, there has been no killer app. I think Halo 4 and Gears Judgment being 360 games has worked against them. Other than MCC, nothing coming out prior to Halo 5 has the same brand power. Titanfall and Forza did not do it. I doubt Sunset Overdrive will. I am surprised that there is no MCC bundle.
Miles Quaritch
Member
Maybe not Epic, so much as Cliffy? And they had a vested interest in the 360 because they had an IP to sell, something they don't have this generation.
Do they? Define identical.
Tidus_Great
Banned
silly article.
xbone is doing subpar because it launched too high of price due to Kinect. it got bad press due to DRM. it's weaker console while having a higher price tag for the first year. It doesn't have any significant exclusives to sway people from ps4. Halo 5 wont be ready til next year and MCC is just a collection of ports.
Xbone should have launched without Kinect for 349 and no DRM from the start, then it would be competitive with ps4 and nobody would have had a problem. simple as that.
xbone is doing subpar because it launched too high of price due to Kinect. it got bad press due to DRM. it's weaker console while having a higher price tag for the first year. It doesn't have any significant exclusives to sway people from ps4. Halo 5 wont be ready til next year and MCC is just a collection of ports.
Xbone should have launched without Kinect for 349 and no DRM from the start, then it would be competitive with ps4 and nobody would have had a problem. simple as that.
Fox Mulder
Member
yeah its hard to blame one thing when everything about the console was fucked at reveal. Totally unappealing and then MS even had condescending attitudes towards the backlash.
most people don't give a shit about 900 vs 1080p or whatever, they just want games.
Citation needed.
I disagree with the premise--I think the weaker console could have been neck and neck had the bad PR not happened.
This is just plain ridiculous. It's the difference between a netbook with an intel atom processor and a laptop with an intel i3 processor. It's miniscule and pointless, and there's really no massive, massive difference between the platforms.
Even then, we see that some of the best games out there on the market are coming from the weakest console of all: the WiiU. And, on top of that, the Xbox One's slate of exclusives is flat-out destroying Sony's right now, though that may change (then again, the Metacritic score averages have NEVER been in Sony's favor, and Microsoft comes out on top every year, so lol). Most third party games have minimal differences, with games running fairly poorly across both platforms.
So yeah, sorry. I geek out over hardware like none other. I prefer better hardware. But my PS4? It's not getting the playtime my Xbox One is getting. The PS4 "won" E3 in 2013 not because Sony had the better presser (less games, less footage, more bad news), but because Microsoft rode in on the tidal wave of bad press in the weeks preceding E3.
Microsoft is absolutely failing because of their PR blunders. Performance is secondary, and it's really not going to give us drastically more incredible games on the PS4. There's never going to be the same kind of gap between the two consoles as there is between the consoles and the PC, which is several orders of magnitude more capable.
Also Destiny marketing. That pushed a lot of PS4s.
This is just plain ridiculous. It's the difference between a netbook with an intel atom processor and a laptop with an intel i3 processor. It's miniscule and pointless, and there's really no massive, massive difference between the platforms.
Even then, we see that some of the best games out there on the market are coming from the weakest console of all: the WiiU. And, on top of that, the Xbox One's slate of exclusives is flat-out destroying Sony's right now, though that may change (then again, the Metacritic score averages have NEVER been in Sony's favor, and Microsoft comes out on top every year, so lol). Most third party games have minimal differences, with games running fairly poorly across both platforms.
So yeah, sorry. I geek out over hardware like none other. I prefer better hardware. But my PS4? It's not getting the playtime my Xbox One is getting. The PS4 "won" E3 in 2013 not because Sony had the better presser (less games, less footage, more bad news), but because Microsoft rode in on the tidal wave of bad press in the weeks preceding E3.
Microsoft is absolutely failing because of their PR blunders. Performance is secondary, and it's really not going to give us drastically more incredible games on the PS4. There's never going to be the same kind of gap between the two consoles as there is between the consoles and the PC, which is several orders of magnitude more capable.
Also Destiny marketing. That pushed a lot of PS4s.
TheSlySoul
Member
The bad decision was the DRM policies and the always online. Console power never has anything to do with which one sells the best. PS2 was the weakest console and still won.
ItsTheNew
I believe any game made before 1997 is "essentially cave man art."
I really didn't make a final decision on what console I wanted until I heard the torrent of anti consumer stuff from Microsoft. Combined with the higher Price and hardware being inferior the choice was easy. I was a super big 360 fan but the Xbox one doesn't seem as plucky and innovative as the 360, so I'm still not sold on it.
>-Baron-Spamedi-<
Member
Well after the E3 fiasco (TV, TV, Kinect, TV, NFL, Skype, TV, TV) and after the specs began to suggest there would be a reasonable power gap I decided to switch from a 360 last gen to a PS4 this gen.
As soon as I told my closest real life mates (who I also game with) that I was switching because of the power difference they all switched too, despite none of them being as interested in the details of the tech side as I am.
People may not always be interested in every nuance of the technical details but it's a mistake to think nobody cares in any way at all outside of forums
Incorrect. http://www.metacritic.com/feature/game-publisher-rankings-for-2013-releases
Sony will be down this year because Drive Club is a train wreck. MCC being a no brainer 90+ will help Microsoft as well.
EventHorizon
Member
While that is all true, the lower hardware specs of the XB1 is the only thing that they can't change. That's why when you consider this console generation as a whole, it is this decision that will hurt it the most. The fact that the XB1 costs more to make yet is less powerful will mean that it will have much less profitability than expected. Just look at all the deals that Microsoft has to throw around just to stay somewhat, but not really, near the PS4 sales.
I've said it before and I'll say it again. Microsoft is going to come out with a new console that is a hardware upgrade to the XB1 far sooner than most people expect.
It's not really about the 900 vs 1080p. It's the simple fact that people don't want to buy what is considered to be an inferior product. This is especially true for a product that you intend to use for years. The price reduction will help with that but it is still there.
If I were Microsoft, I'd hit Sony hard like Sony did to them over the DRM game sharing and price. They should come out with simple videos that hits Sony over the head about network infrastructure and the ability to competently update the console's OS. Bonus points for tying in the DriveClub mess. At least then they'd be punching from a point of strength instead of trying to convince people that 900 vs 1080p is no big deal. That argument is a loser. All it does is highlight their weakness.
The Xbox one's hardware is a result of Microsoft's 3 screen policy - mobile, desktop and TV. They want the same experience, the same apps, the same ecosystem across all 3. Which is why the Xbox one is running a variant of Windows 8.
This demanded 8 gigs of ram, and as a result we have the hardware we have today. Sony was willing to have less ram but of the faster variant - GDDR5.
The mistake in my mind is price. it is the same mistake Sony made with the PS3. Why pay more for a console when the competitors is cheaper and either more powerful (PS4) or games don't look any better but actually worse (PS3).
If Microsoft had launched at $399 with Kinect, or even $349, it would be a completely different ball game in the USA. Europe has always been lost to them.
Kinect was the other mistake - their were no games that sold kinect functionality at launch and instead it became an expensive way to navigate the OS.
The Xbox one we have now at $349 is what Microsoft should have launched last year.
This demanded 8 gigs of ram, and as a result we have the hardware we have today. Sony was willing to have less ram but of the faster variant - GDDR5.
The mistake in my mind is price. it is the same mistake Sony made with the PS3. Why pay more for a console when the competitors is cheaper and either more powerful (PS4) or games don't look any better but actually worse (PS3).
If Microsoft had launched at $399 with Kinect, or even $349, it would be a completely different ball game in the USA. Europe has always been lost to them.
Kinect was the other mistake - their were no games that sold kinect functionality at launch and instead it became an expensive way to navigate the OS.
The Xbox one we have now at $349 is what Microsoft should have launched last year.
xemumanic
Member
I actually agree with this. I still think the next gen will start early for BOTH MS and Sony. There's little reason to wait too long with such hardware. Done properly, they can be fully backwards compatible, and run current games even better (higher res, etc) than they do now.
But as to the main point of discussion, the PS3 was able to eventually get over its issues vs the 360, so the Xbox One can as well, what they can't get over is the lower performance/resolution. This is why I believe MS will try and get a new gen of up before Sony, but both have little reason to wait as long as they did last gen, or claim they can for this gen. Both can also do something like a trade in for a discount on the next system. It's easy to backup everything to external hard drives to transfer to the new system for both platforms.
Lastly, the Xbox One with the Kinect should have been $449, and $379 without the Kinect soon after launch.
RedRooster
Member
Had XB1 had equal hardware/graphics capabilities to PS4, even at $100-200 more expensive I totally would've chosen that. For me it was entirely about that, nothing else. XB1 has a better controller, online, all my friends were there, yet STILL I chose to make the change. DRM would've been a fun little experiment, nothing to completely turn me off though.
Even my 8 year old nephew wanted a PS4 desperately and I asked him why that instead of Xbox and he said it has good graphics. These kids seem to be in tune, its crazy. They don't even have game magazines anymore, where are they getting this info?
Just stop with "price". If you're investing in a game console spread over an 8 year span and plan to spend thousands of dollars for games, $100 initial investment difference is jack shit. Even for welfare families.
Even my 8 year old nephew wanted a PS4 desperately and I asked him why that instead of Xbox and he said it has good graphics. These kids seem to be in tune, its crazy. They don't even have game magazines anymore, where are they getting this info?
Just stop with "price". If you're investing in a game console spread over an 8 year span and plan to spend thousands of dollars for games, $100 initial investment difference is jack shit. Even for welfare families.
PRIDE nearly killed the Xbox One. Coming out of the gate Microsoft was a little puffed up with pride because of how well the 360 has done. The SUITS at Microsoft decided to write some stupid policies for the X1 and it almost killed them. It is good to see that they are coming back around.
85% of Neogaf, "hardcore gamers", can not see or do not care about the difference between native and non native resolution, nor do they understand the concept of framerate, how it influences gameplay and what makes a high framerate so important.
Why should these people care about a little powergap which is, by all respect, a joke compared to what we will see on PC in 1-2 years. I'd argue that those people who REALLY care opt out for PC (if they didn't already) and casuals will stay with console.
Why should these people care about a little powergap which is, by all respect, a joke compared to what we will see on PC in 1-2 years. I'd argue that those people who REALLY care opt out for PC (if they didn't already) and casuals will stay with console.
adamantypants
Member
I consider myself a "core gamer"
and I'm gonna side with those that say it's the DRM and price difference first and foremost. I can agree that the power difference didn't help.
Anecdotally, the conversation I usually had was, The Xbox One is $100 more? AND it's weaker? If it was the same exact price I don't think anyone would have questioned the power. If they had gone out of the gate at $400, Kinect or no Kinect, I'm 100% confident that they wouldn't be in the same position they are today. At the end of the day nobody really gives a shit about the miniscule power difference. We pore over screenshots on GAF but honestly who's gonna go WHERE MY 180p AT DOE when they're in the middle of a game. The games still play and look identical.
All things said though, MS is not "struggling" at all. They're still enjoying great sales and are only getting stronger this season. That article is clickbait because MS is actually doing well, even better than Sony right now since Sony can't seem to get their shit together lately.
gag
Anecdotally, the conversation I usually had was, The Xbox One is $100 more? AND it's weaker? If it was the same exact price I don't think anyone would have questioned the power. If they had gone out of the gate at $400, Kinect or no Kinect, I'm 100% confident that they wouldn't be in the same position they are today. At the end of the day nobody really gives a shit about the miniscule power difference. We pore over screenshots on GAF but honestly who's gonna go WHERE MY 180p AT DOE when they're in the middle of a game. The games still play and look identical.
All things said though, MS is not "struggling" at all. They're still enjoying great sales and are only getting stronger this season. That article is clickbait because MS is actually doing well, even better than Sony right now since Sony can't seem to get their shit together lately.
The Abominable Snowman
Member
The cloud.
There's a reason MS and Sony are gearing up their cloud gaming.
I can see Xbox Live moving into being a streaming service accessible from anyone with a cheap Windows Tablet, Android/iOS, Chromecast, or Roku device
Barack Lesnar
Banned
Agreed. The DRM debacle was a temporary PR nightmare. There will always be a small group of gamers who still outright refuse to get an Xbox because of the DRM stuff despite it being reversed based on principle, but they'll be in the extreme minority. In contrast, weaker hardware will hurt MS for the entire gen. It's a dagger and there's nothing they can do about it except launch a new console in a few years. The hardware will have a far more lasting impact on the XB1's success than DRM-gate.
LegendofLex
Member
That's absolutely not true.
Wii U hasn't had its Wii Sports moment, its Zelda: Twilight Princess, its Super Mario Galaxy, its New Super Mario Bros. Wii. Even its attempts at sequels have fallen flat since they lack the ambition and energy of their predecessors.
You can tell that Wii U doesn't have must-play games because of how few people thought they're "musts" (bought them) relative to Wii's software.
Im not a technical guy when it comes to the closed infrastructure of Consoles, but can Microsoft released and "upgraded" XboxOne with specs similar/better than the PS4?
Then update the SDK to allow the games it compiles to have "dynamic assets" that adjust to the Specs of the first addition Xbone, and the New edition with upgraded specs.
Similar to how PC games can adjust to the various builds out there?
Then update the SDK to allow the games it compiles to have "dynamic assets" that adjust to the Specs of the first addition Xbone, and the New edition with upgraded specs.
Similar to how PC games can adjust to the various builds out there?
Punchpudding
Member
Nah, MS made so many bad decisions on the XB1 I'm surprised they're able to hang in the race at all. I think they completely missed the point on why the 360 made up so much ground last gen.
The 360 was simple, cheap, and unreliable but it could still keep up with the bigger, bloated, and more expensive PS3. Somehow the teams swapped design philosophies this gen with the PS4 giving you just what you need at a decent price and the XB1 throwing in lots of bloat at the cost of slower hardware and a higher price.
I think a part of the problem is that everybody wants to be Apple where you can sell slightly slower devices at premium prices because people like the "experience" more. I'm not sure that will ever fly in video game consoles.
The 360 was simple, cheap, and unreliable but it could still keep up with the bigger, bloated, and more expensive PS3. Somehow the teams swapped design philosophies this gen with the PS4 giving you just what you need at a decent price and the XB1 throwing in lots of bloat at the cost of slower hardware and a higher price.
I think a part of the problem is that everybody wants to be Apple where you can sell slightly slower devices at premium prices because people like the "experience" more. I'm not sure that will ever fly in video game consoles.
By E3 fiasco you mean the reveal right? E3 was games, games, games there was little to no tv presence there.
SMOK3Y
Generous Member
What? In the US? not a WW thought I think..
Hoping the next-Gen comes sooner than last-gen... Not that we have scratched the surface on the now, current-gen machines.
I would like to think with the PC architecture, (PS4, probably more than X1 with its simpler memory)in current Gen will become the equivalent of playing on medium like a PC graphical slider and with a 'PS4.5' on High, same games etc...
Still believe X1, was a ticking time-bomb on release given the entire publicity, the Esram and by same token, GPU nearly made the X1 DOA, the DRM, Price and kinnect, not to mention the Indie Parity etc really did not help either.
I would like to think with the PC architecture, (PS4, probably more than X1 with its simpler memory)in current Gen will become the equivalent of playing on medium like a PC graphical slider and with a 'PS4.5' on High, same games etc...
Still believe X1, was a ticking time-bomb on release given the entire publicity, the Esram and by same token, GPU nearly made the X1 DOA, the DRM, Price and kinnect, not to mention the Indie Parity etc really did not help either.
ChosenPredator
Banned
My eyes light up brightly when i hear PS4 is in the lead solely because due to this microsoft will be dependent on developing new IPS and focusing back on first party titles, which for xbox owners is going to be glorious.
There is zero chance of them ever catching up to PS4 but the results for gamers should be delicious.
There is zero chance of them ever catching up to PS4 but the results for gamers should be delicious.