John Harker
Definitely doesn't make things up as he goes along.
There's a lot more people who make up a launch and a marketing campaign than the public-facing executes.
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Techspot 'Xbox One's struggles are traceable to one bad decision'
- Thread starter jelly
- Start date
There's a lot more people who make up a launch and a marketing campaign than the public-facing executes.
Chittagong
Gold Member
I don't know though. Their next year is pretty damn solid with Halo 5, Crackdown and Quantum Break, and they have been able to drum up incredible interest around Sunset Overdrive. If anything they are gathering pace.
Comparing the two is completely pointless. Why was the PS2 massively hyped up and completely destroyed the DC before it even released? Power. Remember the stories of people buying stocks of PS2s to launch missiles. The power hyperbole was insane.
Xbox and GC launched a year and half later, long after the PS2 had established itself. It's a completely different situation.
The DRM issues definitely have affected it (more so than power), but the dismissal of the power difference is faulty.
Disaster Nebraska
Banned
Okay, so what you are saying is that despite the fact that Phil Spencer is in even MORE of a key role on the Xbox Team and despite Mr. "Tv Tv Tv" still being on the team, and the majority of designers and people involved with the original Xbox One vision are still employed at the company.....
....you're STILL sticking to your statement of Microsoft is fine and they've changed their heart and they're super-committed to gaming because:
they already let all those people go from inside MS so there's the proof enough
So "all the people" means all the people except all of the major executives (sans Mattrick) and all of the same designers and middle-managers? Unless you have insider knowledge that all these people were fired, you can kindly unplug your keyboard and stop talking now.
Dr. Black Jack
Member
Yup. They fucked up their launch about as badly as they could have. Good that Phil Spencer is righting the ship and trying to focus on doing one thing well (quality games) versus everything sub par.
The PS2 had nearly a 2 year head start on the Xbox. By time the Xbox came on the scene the PS2 was already unstoppable.
John Harker
Definitely doesn't make things up as he goes along.
When did I say that at all? You realize that you're just making that up right?
I was laying out how badly they messed up and are attempting to pivot their positioning - that's it not about some processing chip - both internally and externally. Anything else you think I said is in your head.
That is one game, and does not actually refute the notion of multi platform games performing better on PS4.
The average person does not know how or why there are any differences, but word of mouth tends to translate things into layman's terms.
As silly as it is, the bolded is what sealed the deal for me not buying an XBOX one. After having both a X360 and a PS3 last gen, I really really despised the external PSU. The PS4 is an engineering marvel compared to the Xbone.
psn
Member
So that's why MS is so far behind? Is that your point?
But why come to a tech thread then?
Disaster Nebraska
Banned
So you're saying the Wii U is #1 worldwide in sales, since it has the highest quantity of titles and the highest quantity of exclusives right now. Screw "tech", right?
And who has had the better exclusives since launch??? Not knocking Sony's exclusives but Microsoft, this gen, has the better exclusives. And if it was about tech, look at the Wii-U.
Can't lie, I love tech,love the way the PS4 was designed. Microsoft has Sunset Overdrive, Halo, Forza. Killer Instinct and they deliver. Throw in the launch game exclusives and you will see that Microsoft is far ahead of Dony. Nintendo is Nintendo, built on exclusives. Microsoft can ride the exclusive train this whole gen. Nintendo can ride the exclusive train this whole gen. Sony just needs better exclusives. Infamous is great. Last of Us is great. But compare The Last of Us to Halo:MCC. And a Gears of war collection(please use Unreal 4) and Microsoft would be a fool not to make a Halo Wars, ODST, and Reach collection.How about a Forza collection? A Fable collection, as long as it doesn't interfere with sequels and new IP.
Anyways, it's all about the games and Nintendo and Microsoft have proven themselves. It will take more than just a better resolution this gen.
BWJinxing
Member
Its hard to say because, who knows what GPU MS would have used. It could have been, xbone could have been better, could have been worse.
I think it it could have been on PAR. But I dont think MS would have gone above and beyond. MS beveled Sony was going to all out on performance and the execs felt Xbone would have been the better deal overall because of kinect and entertainment features.
This gen? You have a time machine that showed you the entire exclusive roster for this gen and you decided Xbo has the better exclusives? What else can you share?
While I agree the theory is worthless, power difference isn't exactly moderate - you can argue it "feels" like it, but that's just like saying 360 games can still capture XB1 look outside of resolution - we've moved well past the "feature parity" hw-checkbox counting since the last gen started, the differences have been computational since.Chittagong said:
But if we do look at compute-power differences, past generations were closer together - including the PS2.
Crackdown in 2015? Do you know something I don't? I had always heard 2016.
psn
Member
But then your statement makes no sense for me. If it has the better exclusives and it's all about the games this gen, how comes MS is so far behind?
It has the better exclusives for you. But for me, nothing comes close to TLOU. And I have zero interest in Fh2 or SO. Zero. I played Titanfall on my Pc and would love to get a refund, because it bored me after a week. I could play DR3 and Ryse on my Pc if I would be interested in them. But I am not. I would like to play FM5 tho. And there are many great games coming to the ps4, and for me, Sony's first party is much more appealing. So what?
Personal preference my friend.
Why should I look at the WiiU?
Edit: Just saw the last part of riding the exclusives and it's not getting better. Sony had so many great games on the Ps3
imo not only more, they had the better exclusives for me and Afaik also on metacritic
It's the complete opposite for me... Look at the support for the ps3, and look at the support for the x360 the last years. What exactly did they prove for you?
I feel bad for bringing up this pic, but if you want to talk about exclusives, here we go:
http://i.imgur.com/zl10SZ0.jpg
Microsoft hasn't revealed much for 2015 or 16.
I remember even the sports games showing HUGE differences during the PS2 gen with the EA Sports games looking much better on the Xbox. I had a PS2 for my main console that gen and I was always very impressed with how games looked on the original Xbox.
The current gap is definitely bigger than the 360/PS3 gen but I don't think it's as big as the PS2/Xbox gen -- at least in terms of how visually different the multiplats are between the two consoles.
You do know people have different tastes in games right?
AgentP
Thinks mods influence posters politics. Promoted to QAnon Editor.
For once, I agree with you!
I don't think we've seen a real effort on either side to call it either way.
NervousXtian
Thought Emoji Movie was good. Take that as you will.
I don't agree at all. It was price and consumer perception of the whole used game fiasco.. and the fact it was weaker.
I honestly think it took all 3 to cause the huge discrepancy in sales.
If the Xbox launched cheaper it'd be in a better situation, despite the other 2 things. The huge focus on power differential wouldn't matter one bit if the PS4 was 399 and the Xbox 299 out of the gate.
Instead, weaker console, $100 more.. and the OG lingering of the 180 still in effect.
I honestly think it took all 3 to cause the huge discrepancy in sales.
If the Xbox launched cheaper it'd be in a better situation, despite the other 2 things. The huge focus on power differential wouldn't matter one bit if the PS4 was 399 and the Xbox 299 out of the gate.
Instead, weaker console, $100 more.. and the OG lingering of the 180 still in effect.
This.
Masterz117
Banned
are you trolling? 90% of their customers have no idea what that shit even is.
This post pretty much nails it.
Projectjustice
Banned
I wonder if MS would of went with 64MB of eSRAM if it would of made a difference? Any tech heads know?
It would have made an exponential difference to the price.
EventHorizon
Member
Agreed. I think some people just start defending a position without thinking it through. The reality is that PS4 is outselling the XB1. That reality can't exist with the statement that exclusives are important and the XB1 has the better exclusives. It also doesn't go well with the statement that 900p vs 1080p doesn't matter. At some point you have to come up with an explanation as to why the PS4 sells better.
The explanation I've heard people hook on to is that the DRM missteps and bad press are the cause. Except that explanation ignores the following facts:
- That happened over a year ago
- Nobody is talking about DMR anymore
- The only bad press the XB1 is getting lately is that it is having trouble reaching 1080p
- The XB1 sales are worse now relative to the PS4 than they've ever been
Projectjustice
Banned
Yea true.
autoduelist
Member
You need publisher support for that sort of thing. If the PS4 is selling like hotcakes and has established a large market, no publisher wants a new console.
Shhh only some posters on GAF know about the hardware in the machines. Consumers are average drones who buy anything.
NervousXtian
Thought Emoji Movie was good. Take that as you will.
It's easy. People are going to buy what what is hot.. what their friends tell them they got.. the initial launch still matters.. because of word-of-mouth.
It's why even on GAF you see more and more people talking about getting a One now since MCC and SO are launching or launched. A lot of that has to do with the price cuts and the incoming price cut of $50.
The power difference DOES matter, but it's just one factor.. no where near the only factor.. and it's a factor that PRIMARILY matters due to the price. Same price for lesser specs isn't a good value to a lot of people.. especially when until recently the software just wasn't there to push people over the edge.
I haven't gotten one due to the price.. and I got a PS4 because it was cheaper. Honestly, I've been pretty disappointed with the content on the thing so far.. it's been sparse.. and right now I wish I had a One.. with MCC, SO and FH2 on the thing. I'll probably bite at the $349 mark.. and would definitely jump fast if it was $299... because to me honestly.. the power margin only matters to me if the price doesn't match.. when it's cheaper it makes sense.. for the same or more.. it doesn't.
psn
Member
Dat spin... Which excuse is next? The WiiU has other problems like the lack of good 3rd party support etc, it is not a validation.
It may be not about quantity only, but if you have three 90+ games to play in 4 years, is that better than having 20 80+ games? How do you even measure quality? It's subjective to a large degree and as I said, Sony had so many great exclusives and a great support for the ps3 until now... I don't see a reason to be concerned here.
It all comes down to personal preference. And for many peoples, exclusives are the icing on the cake, not more. Look at the sales from Ass Creed, Call Of Duty, GTA V, Battlefield 4 etc..
I mainly have it for exclusives because I have a powerful pc, but if i'd have to play all multiplats on my console, I wouldn't even pick the Xbox 1 for 100$ less, because the gap is not worth it for me. Again - personal preference.
EventHorizon
Member
You can't say that without saying why the PS4 is hot. The PS4 is hot because of the perceived power difference. The 900p vs 1080p is the issue that continually blows up threads on GAF.
I agree that there are many factors, but if you have to boil down THE factor it comes down to the power difference. Remember the XB1 has been getting deals all year, yet still the PS4 was outselling it. The XB1 had a huge marketing push for the "it" game, TitanFall, and the PS4 still outsold it. The only constant throughout all of that has been the power difference.
Going forward there is no doubt that if the deals get good enough, the sales will change. For instance its a safe bet that if the XB1 were selling for $299 it'd dominate the PS4, but even then you'd have to admit that the reason why the price had to be dropped was due to the power difference. The price would be the effect, not the cause.
So you think the Xbox One would be beating the PS4 in overall sales if it was more powerful? Can't say I agree.
I would say more than anything it was the Kinect that hurt the Xbone initially. Drove price to $500 when early adopters didn't necessarily want it. Don't forget that since the console was "always online" that the console was looked at as a "spy box". There is/was no meaningful software that uses the device, it is focused on the casual consumer which had already given the 360 a bad image the past few years as there was a shift in software support (focus on Kinect software over traditional). And maybe MS would have gone with more ESRAM or more expensive GPU design or whatnot had the Kinect not been in every box jacking up the price.
Now the whole Kinect 2.0 investment is essentially a huge waste of money and time when that investment could have gone anywhere else (like Virtual Reality - which is an area where ironically Sony's PS4 camera is apparently much more capable) and also hurt because it takes time to make all those voice commands compatible with various languages which resulted in delayed launches around the world, letting the PS4 take charge early.
The Kinect was supposed to be the killer app of the console and it is instead a complete flop. Now it even has a negative impact on the standalone unit because it was touted so much as a game changer that people sometimes think "but it doesn't have the Kinect" and disregard the lower price and pass on the box altogether.
Now the whole Kinect 2.0 investment is essentially a huge waste of money and time when that investment could have gone anywhere else (like Virtual Reality - which is an area where ironically Sony's PS4 camera is apparently much more capable) and also hurt because it takes time to make all those voice commands compatible with various languages which resulted in delayed launches around the world, letting the PS4 take charge early.
The Kinect was supposed to be the killer app of the console and it is instead a complete flop. Now it even has a negative impact on the standalone unit because it was touted so much as a game changer that people sometimes think "but it doesn't have the Kinect" and disregard the lower price and pass on the box altogether.
Moral Panic
Member
It would be significantly more competitive. I had a 360 last gen and i've moved to PC but I still wanted a console. Choice was between the cheaper AND more powerful PS4 and the weaker and more expensive XB1. I think many others would have been in a similar situation. When you want to play FIFA and Call of Duty, Destiny and Assasins Creed both consoles are pretty much the same and it all comes down to feeling that you are getting something worth it for the money. I dont think a significant amount of people care about a previous policy that was cancelled before the console even launched. Launch sales were very good infact, but as more info on the performance disparity has come out the XB1 has begun to seriously falter.
unknownstranger
Member
Price destroyed Microsoft's lead in the US, Kinect more or less killed their chances having any success anywhere else because of the very limited launch. So really Kinect killed them in both scenarios.
psn
Member
No, but it would help them I guess. Being the more powerful console and getting the better multiplats for the next 5 years is helpful. The brand recognition also helps Sony. Even my grandmother knows what a Playstation is. If your friends have a ps4, chances are higher you go for the console your friends have. And we all know that Sony has an advantage here.
GuiltyBystander
Banned
Hahahahaha. Amazing.
But seriously. RAM wasn't even the biggest problem. The Xbox One was a PR disaster. DRM, no used games, 24 hour check in. I don't think the average consumer has ever heard of eSRAM or GDDR5.
Son of Sam
Banned
i can not tell the difference between 1080p vs 900p unless someone comes in and points it out to me. Not saying it's acceptable but the difference is negligible.
I bought my PS3 in March '07 after having loved gaming on the PS2, then spent 7 years having inferior multiplatform games, often running at lower resolution and/or lower frame rate. I loved the PS3's media support, but I was *not* looking forward to dealing with inferior ports for another generation. I was ready to make the switch to X Box, only to find that Sony actually had the better hardware for honest and true. Faster RAM, 50% bigger GPU, no pita split memory, no one-generation-back GPU.. and a cheaper price? Take me PlayStation, you big handsome gorilla, I'm back!
IndoAssassin
Banned
But there is still a difference. However you perceive that fact changes nothing and is not a valid argument, because everyone will see it differently, no matter how you defend or attack the X1. So I don't understand why people keep making excuses for MS's faults in this regard. I mean facts are facts.
This should always be front and centre so neither of these companies try to charge more for inferior hardware. Also so they try to squeeze more power out of their budget the next time.