I like how most media sites don't actually write about the original story. Just that Microsoft responded to it.
Y'know I used to dislike Kotaku but after their change in direction they've become fantastic for stuff like that, they report pretty much the full story.
They're H1PSTERs... Couldn't resist. But I agree but I'll still a walk away now...
I like how most media sites don't actually write about the original story. Just that Microsoft responded to it.
DM'ed Phil about this earlier, he responded:
"I'm on it".
Wish this didn't happen, but glad he's going to do something asap about it. I also mentioned some sort of compensation.
Two more weeks? I think we're officially at Fuck You, Pay Me.We apologize for this incident and anticipate developers will receive payments within the next two weeks.
If it wasn't a technical error then what? A company with $billions profit trying to make a couple of extra $1000... sure.
I'm sure something was fucked up and they're finally fixing it. MS aren't purposely withholding payments. More likely, I just think it was a low-priority item for them until it made news. At large companies it can take forever for submitted requests/issues to be handled by the engineers. More important/high priority shit always jumps ahead of you in the queue. XBLIG was likely in the low-priority pile.If it wasn't a technical error then what? A company with $billions profit trying to make a couple of extra $1000... sure.
Each quarter Microsoft then pays said developers their portion of the games sales. The system itself also includes a clause that payment is not considered late until its beyond 45 days after the stated payment date. Previously they managed to go over that date by 7 days meaning from the date developers were meant to be paid it was 52 days after the stated payment date. Well this year theyve gone even better. Indie developers using the service were expecting their Q3 payment on September 30th. The Date as of writing this is the 3rd of December, developers still havent been paid meaning Microsoft is 64 days late on payment a full 19 days beyond the rather generous "Acceptable" delay period they gave themselves.
I'm willing to believe them that it's a technical error.
But I'd also believe someone thinking that Microsoft had no intention on fixing this any time soon until today when this started gaining publicity.
We've known about the issue and been working on a fix for a while - since sometime in November. This is not at all how we want to treat developers.
We've known about the issue and been working on a fix for a while - since sometime in November. This is not at all how we want to treat developers.
Did Microsoft actually inform developers that this was happening though? It seems like most were pretty much blindsided by not receiving their payments.
Also as stated by others and the original article, this isn't the first time this has happened.
Here's a small riddle:
How many indies does it take to screw over until they stop giving support?
Microsoft's story with indies has always been filled with spotty errors, broken promises, poor communication so much that some developers have vowed never to work with them again, like Team Meat and Phil Fish who wouldn't release Fez 2 because of Microsoft's terms.
Even after all the debacle with the controversial initial terms of publishing for the Xbox One, for independent developers, and redoing their terms multiple times until they were satisfactory, they are still being harming them in one way or the other.
Sony and Nintendo are far from being perfect when it comes to their relationships with independent developers but you rarely here about these kind of issues with independent developers. Nintendo fixed most of its issues coming from the Wii and Sony has been nurturing a lot of support and gaining an enviable number of high-profile and high-qualitty independent games on their platform. Microsoft may have given away free consoles to try to motivate more independent developers to make games for their platform, but that's a worthless gesture if they withhold payments for so long.
I just wouldn't consider making a game for a Microsoft console at this point. They just can't be trusted when it comes to their relationships with indies.
We've known about the issue and been working on a fix for a while - since sometime in November. This is not at all how we want to treat developers.
We've known about the issue and been working on a fix for a while - since sometime in November. This is not at all how we want to treat developers.
We've known about the issue and been working on a fix for a while - since sometime in November. This is not at all how we want to treat developers.
FYI
https://twitter.com/ID_Xbox/status/540275992619532288
I also just want to confirm that this was related to Xbox Live Indie Games program on Xbox 360 only, no ID@Xbox developer has received late payments.
Again, we're very sorry about this incident and it won't happen again.
-Chris
That'd carry more weight if it wasn't a recurring problem. The real issue is that indies weren't a priority which is odd because Microsoft wants Windows AppStore developers like crazy on all platforms. This is not sending a good message to those developers. The most favorable interpretation is that this is a "the left hand didn't know what the right hand was doing" type of situation. Once again, priorities.We've known about the issue and been working on a fix for a while - since sometime in November. This is not at all how we want to treat developers.
Wait, wait . . . devs were expecting payment on September 30th and it took until November for someone at Microsoft to realize these payments weren't actually happening?!
Holy hell!!
Now I wonder if MS internally realizes this or had to be informed by the devs that they weren't receiving payment. You'd think a big corporation would internally realize payments weren't going out the day after they were expected.
This is probably going to be one of those "you're probably going to wish you hadn't said that" posts. As issue prevented you giving people the money that they'd earned that they were due to receive in September and you somebody chose to start working on fixing the issue for them...sometime in November but I can't remember when in November as it's not something that's important.We've known about the issue and been working on a fix for a while - since sometime in November. This is not at all how we want to treat developers.
This is probably going to be one of those "you're probably going to wish you hadn't said that" posts. As issue prevented you giving people the money that they'd earned that they were due to receive in September and you somebody chose to start working on fixing the issue for them...sometime in November but I can't remember when in November as it's not something that's important.
I wonder of "sometime in November" actually means "sometime in December after the games press got hold of it"?
This is not exactly true. In the OP it mentions there's apparently a 64 day acceptable delay or whatever they're calling it. They're 19 days past that.
Go back 19 days and that's mid-November which seems to line up.
There's also this from the end of October, where devs seem to have first been asking about it and the issue was first discovered.
http://xboxforums.create.msdn.com/forums/t/112910.aspx?PageIndex=1
So yeah, probably should have notified developers a few weeks ago but it's not as though Microsoft knew there was an issue for the past 3 months and just didn't say anything.
First off, it's a 45 day grace period not 64. Second, that is the grace period for catching and fixing these kinds of issues. They had 45 days to fix this and they didn't. Do they now get a grace period for their grace period?This is not exactly true. In the OP it mentions there's apparently a 64 day acceptable delay or whatever they're calling it. They're 19 days past that.
Go back 19 days and that's mid-November which seems to line up.
There's also this from the end of October, where devs seem to have first been asking about it and the issue was first discovered.
http://xboxforums.create.msdn.com/forums/t/112910.aspx?PageIndex=1
So yeah, probably should have notified developers a few weeks ago but it's not as though Microsoft knew there was an issue for the past 3 months and just didn't say anything.
ID@Xbox parity clause wasn't fucking bad enough for indies Microsoft? Fucking pay them.
Taking advantage of the most vulnerable devs in the community.
Disgusting.
First off, it's a 45 day grace period not 64. Second, that is the grace period for catching and fixing these kinds of issues. They had 45 days to fix this and they didn't. Do they now get a grace period for their grace period?
FYI, even the 45 day thing is kind of f'd up if you ask me.