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DF: Is Uncharted 4 the generational leap we were hoping for?
- Thread starter valkyre
- Start date
Two people are wrong, nothing more, but happen.
PLASTICA-MAN
Member
You know UE4 uses a static GI solution called Lightmass. Dynamic GI aka LPV is not activated by default (needs some hacks) and only work with sunlight (and the results are very primitive since LPV is only uses 3D textures instead of voxel based solutions). LPV doesn't even work with flashlights hence you can't get dynamic GI from it.
Here in Uncharted 4 we have a better version of the one used in TLOU and can have dynamic GI results using the flashlight in the cave.
gundamkyoukai
Member
That seems rather high at this point in time.
Lord Error
Insane For Sony
There's a much better show of this in the reveal trailer:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNDGQMz1fJQ
I doubt the underlying rigging technology is any different in what they have now
You have to keep in mind that for a game to never drop a frame below 30, the 30FPS has to be it's absolute minimum framerate, no matter what load it's processing - so the average has to be higher.
TheGuardian
Member
Well, Monster's Uni is a very stylized movie, with a lot of hand made stuff made on top of a physically based renderer.
And most games don't actually use photo based specular or normal maps. Normal maps usually come from a height map or high res mesh made in zbrush or a similar tool, specular maps don't actually contain much info in most modern lighting models, usually just some swatches of colour for metals and low grey for everything else (some engines like unreal even use a metalness value to redirect the albedo values to specular in metals and avoid a specular map altogether). Then there's roughness/gloss, which doesn't have a "correct" value, it's going to be dependent on the specific surface and so it can be painted without much PBR knowledge, just an empirical sense of how smooth the surface is. Albedo can be whatever you want as long as it has neutral brightness (or in engines that don't deal with that, it should be black for metals).
It's not rocket science, and it's been in use on PS4 launch games like Shadowfall (or even on PS3, by the likes of tri-ace, koji pro, etc).
Dictator93
Member
Not sure what you mean. You said that Adventure games would look horrible with obmb. Then I mentioned that the uncharted games and ND games in the past have used obmb (they are tps adventure games, right?).
I am not sure what your comment means. It is obvious that the motionblur rendering of the order is better than those ps3 games.
I would maintain that @ 60fps per object motionblur still look really fantastic. Better than without.
For example:
We have no idea what the unlocked framerate is. Anythign is pure speculation. We likewise have no idea what the load differential between different actions and scenes are.
Vulcano's assistant
Banned
I think the Order has the better looks overall, but that is mostly due to the game being closer to release and the post effects. UC 4 has a naked clean look that does not hide imperfections like the Order does.
Sweet Ivy
Member
Very, really impressed by the demo and sure enough the final game will look better so, wow!
In the end, these kind of demos are always "thrown together" quickly, so hat off to it, it was also pretty long. The quantity and quality of stuff on the screen... !
But there's such a New-Yorker syndrome around here sometimes (MIB reference)... people are not impressed by UC4 demo, The Order looks ok...
But today I read someone stating that Forza 2 looks slightly better than DriveClub (post recent patch) so really, I'm ready to move to NY, nothing can surprise me anymore *chuckles*
!
In the end, these kind of demos are always "thrown together" quickly, so hat off to it, it was also pretty long. The quantity and quality of stuff on the screen... !
But there's such a New-Yorker syndrome around here sometimes (MIB reference)... people are not impressed by UC4 demo, The Order looks ok...
But today I read someone stating that Forza 2 looks slightly better than DriveClub (post recent patch) so really, I'm ready to move to NY, nothing can surprise me anymore *chuckles*
!
PLASTICA-MAN
Member
I'm... not exactly sure what you're getting at.
Baked GI is apparent in UC4.
Baked in the environment light sources, but the flashlight GI is dynamic.
Pound_lb003
Member
I know often a normal map will be based off of a high poly model, but I thought that was the point of a PBR pipeline. I'm gonna go wikipedia PBR, and see what I am missing.
That was a cool explanation, but I am still not feeling like I understand what it is (anymore).
EDIT: Having just looked it up, PBR is a pretty fast and loose term. I know it's very rarely cut and dry with graphical effects - but this really IS very ambiguous. So, yeah I wasn't wrong per se, but there's not a right either.
Physically based rendering, does indeed involve taking reference from physical data, however.
Amey
Member
Seems to be working fine for this guy
gundamkyoukai
Member
Very true , i wonder if any more info was given about the game at the PSX panel .
PLASTICA-MAN
Member
It works fine of course and like I said you need to enable if via hacks and only works with sunlight. It is not as efficient and accurate as SVOGI or VXGI which are voxel based. which can work with every light source even emissive materials and textures and get you dynamic GI with them.
Lord Error
Insane For Sony
I'm just thinking, it's something you'd add to a 60FPS game if you really have a headway, but it's not a necessity at that point. Although it could be added to help smooth out irregular framerate like in GoW3.
DarkLordMalik
Member
I can't believe DF wrote this article. I mean come on :|
The graphics look the same and the only different thing is the lighting and Drake is not wet this time.
These pictures looks by miles better than anything I've ever seen in video games. Not to mention that the game still in Pre-Alpha and one year until we can see the final game.
The graphics look the same and the only different thing is the lighting and Drake is not wet this time.
These pictures looks by miles better than anything I've ever seen in video games. Not to mention that the game still in Pre-Alpha and one year until we can see the final game.
Can't help but feel that part of the reason people are not "blown away" by UC4 is because even though the graphics and technology on display are incredible it's very ...mundane.
People are not going to blown away by true physics for chest hair.
If it wasn't for the slow motion gif highlighting Nathan's hair being affected by the water fall I doubt more than a few would have noticed.
However, people were blown away by the time distortion effects in Quantum Break. They were more eye catching.
Also, the setting was very mundane. Some rock climbing and some fist and gun fights. Really nothing we haven't seen before.
Again, to use Quantum Break as an example, a collapsing bridge is more spectacular.
It doesn't matter how great the technology is if what is being displayed is too realistic.
People are not going to blown away by true physics for chest hair.
If it wasn't for the slow motion gif highlighting Nathan's hair being affected by the water fall I doubt more than a few would have noticed.
However, people were blown away by the time distortion effects in Quantum Break. They were more eye catching.
Also, the setting was very mundane. Some rock climbing and some fist and gun fights. Really nothing we haven't seen before.
Again, to use Quantum Break as an example, a collapsing bridge is more spectacular.
It doesn't matter how great the technology is if what is being displayed is too realistic.
They really aren't wrong, at all.
Syphon Filter
Member
Those are close ups on a "scene", gameplay it does not look as impressive. I will say that by E3 it will look much better though.
The graphics downgrade from the original trailer are obvious. However, it does still have quite a bit of time in the oven, and the gameplay sections look much more improved from the previous Uncharteds, enough to really impress me regardless.
It's all in-game, they are not using " cut scene " like they used to do on PS3.
Angry Fork
Member
The beginning with the mountains and mist looked like concept art to me, that was awesome. The rest didn't impress me visually but it looks great obviously it's just not OMG level. I'm way more interested in the multiple pathways/ways to get enemies they've seemed to implement, which is the most significant change I think.
gundamkyoukai
Member
People were expecting a huge set piece since that is what they normal go with.
So i can understand people saying it looks mundane or not good\ impressive as UC2 and UC3 first gameplay demonstration .
As you say spectacular.sells.
mysteriousmage09
Member
Never any upgrades.
I agree that you can't make a blanket statement that "Graphics usually do not improve much from the first showing to release" without showing some data. But you can certainly see patterns in how games change depending on the publisher or developer. Ubisoft, for example.
So what's Naughty Dog's track record on how their games change graphically from announcement to preview builds to release?
PLASTICA-MAN
Member
Never any upgrades.
The reveal looked almost like PS2 with washed out textures. Now demo vs retail: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-godofwariii-demo-vs-retail-blog-entry
Also demo Kratos had 20k polys with just textured toes while final one was 35K polys and his toes were 3D.
Also : http://www.examiner.com/article/uncharted-2-receives-graphics-upgrade
And this: http://n4g.com/news/861504/uncharted-3-drakes-deception-video-comparison#c-5921040
Nothing is lost even after launch. Best example Driveclub receiving weather effects now and looking phenomenal.
Always-honest
Banned
Well, some devs seem to be able to constantly improve untill release, some will have to downgrade.
Sometimes parts of a game get downgraded while,other parts or elements get upgraded (even Naughty Dog had to make sacrifices in some games).
I think Naughty Dog can be given the benefit of the doubt here. They (as well as other devs) were involved with creating the system that is the PS4.
If any dev team can pull something incredible off on this system, they are certainly one of the top three that i'd think of. (As this demo showed for me allready, personally)
The Order...
Is that in-game? Wow, that looks amazing.
Apparently really BS.
Yep, The Order will probably be the best looking console game when it is released.
blastprocessor
The Amiga Brotherhood
More l look at UC4 more l think they are gunning for 60fps.
Canis lupus
Member
Of course but UC4 isn't gonna be the graphics leap, a few games already did: Ryse, Killzone, inFamous, Driveclub and soon The Order.
They are, sorry.
Sure, it depends on the devs, some have proved to improve the game, other to worsen. I don't have a precise track about the ND, but I remember trying some of their games before the release and to have noticed a good improvement.
I agree with you and yes, sometime you need to sacrifice some graphics and gameplay elements for the good of the whole product.
Dictator93
Member
Referencing a PS3 game that dropped MSAA and started moving more things over to the SPU (all post processing among other things) as an example for graphics improvement is a bit disegenuous regarding the latest generation.
There wont be architectural advancements this time around to such a crazy degree as the PS3 saw.
PLASTICA-MAN
Member
ND said and explained that they are mimicking PS3 SPUs architecture when coding on PS4 since they are used to it and find it efficient.
Dictator93
Member
I would imagine that means using a job based threading system.... and not having the CPU run the post processing so you can push prettier pixels.
Devs this time around know more about how to take advantage of what they have before them and the hardware helps this a lot. Games will look better over time, but you will rarely if ever see something like saving 40% GPU time by throwing stuff over to the SPUs like in the old days.
IAmRandom31
Banned
its a shame you don't play this game zoomed into Drakes forehead.
Then people would be able to see the inner flesh around cuts and stuff. Damn downgrades!
Then people would be able to see the inner flesh around cuts and stuff. Damn downgrades!
Pound_lb003
Member
They SAID they are targeting 60fps...
in recent times they sometimes actually get worse from first showing to release.
gundamkyoukai
Member
I would used drive club as a eg even more so after the weather patch .
Then there is the the leak BB trailer that was suppose to showed at last year TGS but they did not bother .
That game went under a pretty big change in looks .
The leak trailer https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o2WObVJLLSg
PLASTICA-MAN
Member
Lol this comparison shows up again, it was only a matter of time.
It's been proved bogus over and over again, it's a change in lighting everything else is at the same complexity with changes in locations sometimes which is due to artistic reasons or story reasons. Beside why would they downgrade a pre rendered cutscene?
This is a better example
Uncharted 1 reveal
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cz5lgcIIV5c
Final game
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjAqocPdn9g&
Syphon Filter
Member
I put it in quotes since i didn't want to mean cut scene specifically , it was for a lack of a better word. You want to see impressive then see the order like that guy above posted:
Now that's impressive.