it's in the first line of the OP
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Bikini Armor Battle Damage: Sexy Armor Hypocrisy (?) featuring (some of) NeoGAF
- Thread starter Dawg
- Start date
it's in the first line of the OP
Parakeetman
No one wants a throne you've been sitting on!
Teletraan1
Banned
This is a shitty position to take on anything. You move past things that are wrong and learn from them. You don't commit the same wrongs for retribution sake or to meet some quota.
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
I have to wonder if Japan and Korea are the majority doing this. That thread quickly turned into a East vs. West debate on female characters.
SolidSnakex
Member
Like I said, those were the biggest releases last fall. It's hardly a drop in the bucket. Does that mean that everything is equal? Of course not. But over the past generations a lot of female designs have moved in the direction.
I think the main difference is that the west has moved toward perusing realism in every area of gaming. As such if you're going down that route then obviously you can't have really over the top character designs or it's just going to standout. Japan and Korea really haven't gone down that route. So everything about their games from the setting, mechanics to the designs are really over the top.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
#NotallJapaneseDevs
If you want to look at great looking female characters, Kojima has usually done a good job with Meryl, Olga, The Boss, Mei Ling, Rose all not wearing...bikinis. Even Fortune who wore one piece is a respectable character. And Eva...
The worst thing about this topic is that people make the most illogical excuses for sexualized designs because they refuse to admit that the design in question is meant to titilate. There's such a huge pushback and defense of sexualized designs whenever the topic comes up that it just seems like a waste of time. The last one I can recall were probably the Witcher 3 thread and/or the Cid in FFXV thread. Tons of effort is put into debunking anyone who dares to call out the boob windows in female character designs, because such destabilization of the status quo should not be allowed.
Look, it's fine to have your dick-stroking designs in your video games, just be upfront about it and don't try to excuse it as something it's not. That's all there is to it.
whenever this topic arises, this should be mandatory accompany:
I've already seen a couple of the same dumb arguments in this thread.
Look, it's fine to have your dick-stroking designs in your video games, just be upfront about it and don't try to excuse it as something it's not. That's all there is to it.
whenever this topic arises, this should be mandatory accompany:
I've already seen a couple of the same dumb arguments in this thread.
……forgetit
Member
And then Quiet happened, with her torn stockings and thing bikini.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
If Kojima says you will be ashamed for your words and deeds once the game comes out, we'll have to see~
#ChicoisQuiet
pants
Member
The biggest AAA franchises of last year are just a drop in the bucket?
But then the problem is with the sexualized character, and not necessarily with the boob plate, because I think a character can have a boob plate without it making her overly sexy.
The argument that Boob plates should be retired because they're not scientifically accurate is just dumb to me.
Banana Aeon
Member
If there was no top, the design would be a lot better.
I have no idea what's going on with the top thing.
stump sock
Member
Yeah, I have to agree. And if the writer likes it, I'm glad. But I'll stand with the (non-homophobic) people that think it's a friggin terrible design. It's like Revengeance's armor gone even wrong-er in terms of gluing pointy things onto people. At least Revengeance went all-in with that design philosophy. Here we just have half a smock painted on, and some spiky parts attached at random. And some ropes for good measure.
chaobreaker
Member
Everyone. Jojo is an experience that can't be properly conveyed in renders of some PS3 fighting game. You gotta read or watch that shit.
But really, Jojo has both a huge male and female following.
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
That is true. Also you have to include Otakus since they are a prime audience for this type of stuff.
I think Peace Walker had some of the best female characters in MGS. Dr. Strangelove especially.
Oh at S-E they've been very upfront about it.
It's mostly the fans trying to "clean up behind them [SE] ", so to speak.
Cidney is still an ugly design to me.
I'm ok if they wanted to do sexualization, but they just went to an extent that is comical.
If you look at the way Gladiolus is also sexualized, he's mainly got that one element (shirtless) to add the sexual element, ok, but Cidney has like 3 different ones, which comes off as very desperate and to the detriment of the design, even from a sexualized point of view.
They could've tone down the boob window (even without outright removing it) and made those pants a little less short (you can see the ass cheeks, IIRC). and it would've come off as less pathetic in its intentions.
I don't know if dumb is a good word for it. It may seem irrelevant and it may seem superfluous, or maybe even unimportant, but it's certainly not a dumb argument.
The Omega Man
Member
Maybe, these type of dudes are the unrealistic ideal men girls want, we've achieved parity.
BeatResetsTheWorld
Banned
How is it hypocrisy when a female with that armor would also get complaints about her design on here?
This was and continues to be a terrible comic. I get the point, but that redesign at vest would appeal to the tumble crowd
Maybe, these type of dudes are the unrealistic ideal men girls want, we've achieved parity.
This was and continues to be a terrible comic. I get the point, but that redesign at vest would appeal to the tumble crowd
Oh please god no. Bingo Cards are just a lazy way to kill off discussion and saying that an argument is often made does say nothing about the value of that argument.whenever this topic arises, this should be mandatory accompany:
I've already seen a couple of the same dumb arguments in this thread.
captainpat
Member
Because the degree of those complaints would be much less.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
……forgetit
Member
Maybe, these type of dudes are the unrealistic ideal men girls want, we've achieved parity.
I always love that image because there are plenty of superheroes that are drawn that way. Peter Parker is a big one every time he takes off his mask.
Riposte
Member
Look, it's fine to have your dick-stroking designs in your video games, just be upfront about it and don't try to excuse it as something it's not. That's all there is to it.
whenever this topic arises, this should be mandatory accompany:
I've already seen a couple of the same dumb arguments in this thread.
Your appeal boils down to "please refer to your own aesthetic tastes as debased perversions (e.g., literal masturbation) so they are easy to shame and target in my righteous war against things I don't like".
Followed by a typical echo chamber built bingo board meme. Look at these arguments and judgment values of varying merit I don't agree with and despair under the weight of my dismissive attitude!
Except you cherry picked Team Mustang Girls specifically so you could show off how "real girl mechanics dress like that all the time, it's totally realistic".
When I look up 'female mechanic' on Google images, those certainly aren't the images that pop up. Moreover, from the look of professional female mechanics:
"Judy Merlo has been taking apart cars and putting them back together since she was a child."
Sarah Lateiner: "She felt like mechanics were taking advantage of her so she learned how to fix it herself. And really, she says, that's what empowered her more than anything."
"Southern female mechanic" Sarah Lyon. She worked on a calendar featuring actual female mechanics at work, some of the pictures which can be seen here. (You might see a difference between what they are wearing and what Cindy wears.)
Seems like the professionals don't dress like Cindy when working on cars either. It probably doesn't help that when I visit the Team Mustang Girls site, it largely consists of pictures of cars or pictures of girls posing with cars. From the site itself: "Team Mustang Girls is an online community for Mustang enthusiasts to share their stories and adventures." They are not proclaimed female mechanics. 'Commonplace for women to dress like this as mechanics', lol.
Most of the arguments in this post become moot once you lose the ground on how 'realistic' Cindy's appearance is for a female mechanic. I'd argue design wise Cindy's jacket serves two purposes: 1) to push up her boobs and 2) to give her the faux air of being a mechanic, when combined with the cap. The latter serves to outline her functional role as a character, but the former places emphasis on her physical characteristics as the distinctive part of her character. In other words, the logic here is that Cindy is merely a plot/gameplay vehicle dressed up in fanservice. It is a stupid design because it is actually unrealistic and clearly intended for other purposes. You'll have to find better than Team Mustang Girls as an example for justification.
"Oh, but maybe her character just wants to be sexy! There are women that want to be sexy! Why are you being an illogical prude?" So there are countless female character designs that have scanty amounts of clothing, and I suppose all those female characters are all females that just want to be sexy. Is it too much to ask for a female character that quite possibly can choose her own sensible wardrobe fitting to a personality that isn't generically "wanting to be sexy"?
Why use "pictures of fat shirtless balding men" instead of the equivalent argument of "well-built, good-looking shirtless men" for arguing if something appeals to men/women specifically? It matters if a design specifically caters to men or women because it can be unappealing to the other gender, and that would decrease the number of possible audience. Take a look at Resident Evil 6 character designs for example: the female designs know how to be good-looking and functional without being outlandishly pandering like Cindy's design. In a modern setting with as wide a range for fashion that the modern world has, the best Cindy is given is the same old fanservice style garbage? Right now when I buy a game with poor female character design, I buy it in spite of the designsand I buy when it's gone bomba, because why bother paying $60 for more poor female characterization and general bullshit? How does one expand the audience for their game? Not through designs like Mevius guy or Cindy. You do it through creating better content, and saying "well, it's tradition" and "it's been done before" is no justification for lack of progress.
Fine Ham Abounds
Member
It does remind me a bit of Lost Odyssey for some reason also, not even sure why exactly.
My only issue is that it looks too busy and overdesigned. Way too much going on for an outfit that's barely there for the whole torso.
My only issue is that it looks too busy and overdesigned. Way too much going on for an outfit that's barely there for the whole torso.
fabricated backlash
Member
Citation needed.
Sho_Nuff82
Member
These accusations of hypocrisy would make sense if anyone here actually liked Lightning, or Square's hyper "badass" reimagining of Batman.
……forgetit
Member
Lol, I love that quote to. I just know that whatever it is I'll say "that's fucking stupid."
Fine Ham Abounds
Member
Shinta is now googling where you live
Lean figure exposing some skin in the belly/lower back area.
I thought of Lost Odyssey too, actually.
Giorno Giovanna > Batman.
That image doesn't really work on me as i would take a "feminine" male design, over an "hyper masculine" one every day of the week (just look at how awful Batman looks in the Arkham games, ffs) however as a larger point, you can see where it's coming from, given the reactions to Melvius' design.
Then again, i'm one who really loved Reign: The Conqueror's designs:
Hexa
Member
The discussion in these threads always becomes weird. If you don't care about practical design and like a characters design such as Cidney because she's hot that's fine. Non practical design is perfectly fine.Form over function is fine. You don't have to dig out complex evidence in order to justify it. You can like what you like and not feel ashamed of it. There's nothing wrong with liking a character for their sexual appeal to you. Nor is their anything contradictory or hypocritical for not liking a similar character for being designed to be sexually appealing to people other than you. And its perfectly acceptable to express your opinion in either case. Sure if you're arguing that one is morally acceptable but the other isn't then there is an issue, so don't do that.
Furthermore, anything having to do with design is subjective so you don't have to preface any expression of your opinion with an imo or something to that extent.
On that note, design in OP looks like crap. And Cidney is awesome.
Furthermore, anything having to do with design is subjective so you don't have to preface any expression of your opinion with an imo or something to that extent.
On that note, design in OP looks like crap. And Cidney is awesome.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
Yeah, I think dude bro designs look stupid when they have 500 muscles and are like, 100 inches wide. Like, I heavily dislike the He-Man style of muscles.
AstroNut325
Member
I like bikini armor. 
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
I'd make the argument that batman has to look intimidating when he lives in the most dangerous city filled with mass murderers and psychos. When he's not wearing the suit you see more of a light almost feminine side to him.Giorno Giovanna > Batman.
That image doesn't really work on me as i would take a "feminine" male design, over an "hyper masculine" one every day of the week (just look at how awful Batman looks in the Arkham games, ffs) however as a larger point, you can see where it's coming from, given the reactions to Melvius' design.
Then again, i'm one who really loved Reign: The Conqueror's designs:
I didn't see the original thread, however the thigh guards are the first things that stand out to me. Maybe sprint cyclists are the prototypical attractive body shape in that universe and accentuating the quads is a thing.
I generally don't care too much about the skimpiness of outfits for males females in games, however it does seem odd that equivalent armours (stats wise) can be so different between male and female characters. Although, game universes can be inconsistent internally and with the real world.
I generally don't care too much about the skimpiness of outfits for males females in games, however it does seem odd that equivalent armours (stats wise) can be so different between male and female characters. Although, game universes can be inconsistent internally and with the real world.
uhm....what? It's not like FF has had hunky men(without the male power fantasy thingy) before? Like many of them tbh...but what usually gets me is how everyone's value seem to be so...sheltered?
Reminds me of the Dave Chapelle whore uniform bit, not the end point. I can look outside and see more revealing outfits on both men and women. Have a few of those myself I like to wear when I go out and except for some drunk idiots neither I or my partner get any flack. Then again I live in a country where it's legal to masturbate in public, as long as I'm not basing my masturbation on someone in the vicinity.
1. But this was just done to start discussion again? Since I see no point to this other than that.
2. Why the fuck must everyone always talk as it was "finally" a thing when something that fits their agenda happens? Do we really have a bad memory so that we can only talk about what is happening right now? Are we that fucking dumb? -.-
Give me FFXIIHD with sexy costumes for Balthier or at least a PC version so I can mod it in. <3
Reminds me of the Dave Chapelle whore uniform bit, not the end point. I can look outside and see more revealing outfits on both men and women. Have a few of those myself I like to wear when I go out and except for some drunk idiots neither I or my partner get any flack. Then again I live in a country where it's legal to masturbate in public, as long as I'm not basing my masturbation on someone in the vicinity.
1. But this was just done to start discussion again? Since I see no point to this other than that.
2. Why the fuck must everyone always talk as it was "finally" a thing when something that fits their agenda happens? Do we really have a bad memory so that we can only talk about what is happening right now? Are we that fucking dumb? -.-
Give me FFXIIHD with sexy costumes for Balthier or at least a PC version so I can mod it in. <3
Amongst loads of terrible comments we got a good one that wasn't posted:
Nice one
Pennywise83
Banned
Nope, the argument is more like to expose people that think it's fine to have overly-sexualized (and bad) female designs and, at the same time, think it's not fine if a male character has a comparable design.
stump sock
Member
This lines up a lot with the way I see it. I don't care about practicality at aaaallllll when it comes to games and comics, etc. If we based all designs on practical outfits, we'd have some really boring characters. On a strictly design basis, I think the OP guy looks stupid.
The problem with the blog post is it's effectively trying to shut down criticism of characters like this until there are as many shitty male character designs as female, which is stupid. There's no reason to marry those two arguments.
If you want to point and laugh at homophobes, fine. If you want to say other criticism is invalid, then I'm afraid you might need to reevaluate your definition of criticism.
Non sense I wouldn't defend that armor even on a horse.
stump sock
Member
fine in theory but that post is in no way pointing out anybody who has said both of those things. It's making assumptions based on... what, exactly?
It's a bad design, but I can pretty much guarantee Fran didn't get nearly the amount of hate when FFXII was released compared to this dude. Hell, some people were defending Fran while saying this design was bad recently. A LOT of female armor and character design in general is ridiculous. I find it funny that one of the recent games that didn't fall into this trap, Dragon Age Inquisition suddenly gets threads upon threads (not necessarily here) about how the characters are ugly and unromanceable because of it.
somebody should cross-reference that original Mevius thread with that thread where people talked about how proud they were to be perverts in games