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[Rocket Scientist]

...but in 2012 Apple paid $1 out of every $40 tax dollars the U.S. collects.

It's an irrelevant statistic though, don't you think? You make money, you pay taxes. You make a lot of money, you pay a lot of taxes. Also:

Apple is likely the largest corporate income tax payer in the US, having paid nearly $6 billion in taxes to the US Treasury in FY2012. These payments account for $1 in every $40 in corporate income tax the US Treasury collected last year

It was refering to corporate income tax and not total tax collected. A lot of sites reporting on it neglected to share that information and made it sound like total taxes, pretty disingenuous.

 

[Souldestroyer Reborn]

I mean we can discuss how taxes should be paid and how offshore taxes should work etc but in 2012 Apple paid $1 out of every $40 tax dollars the U.S. collects.

It was a tongue in cheek comment

They have a $6.392 billion provision for income taxes on $24.246 billion profit, which is about 26% (the $18 billion profit in the OP is an after-tax profit).

http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2015/01/27Apple-Reports-Record-First-Quarter-Results.html

In contrast to other tech companies:
Google paid $859 million in its most recent quarter (22%).
Microsoft paid $1.987 billion (25%).
Amazon doesn't make money and doesn't pay taxes (they are a middle class charity).

Interesting thank you. lol at the Amazon comment.

 

[Angel_DvA]

Holy Crap !! Those numbers are insane !!

 

[numble]

Thanks for the numbers. They're disappointing, I was expecting some crazy low number, but a large part of their operation is in the US and perhaps it's more difficult to funnel those profits to low tax areas. Any breakdown of US and overseas tax rates paid?

26% isn't that disappointing, considering the average OECD corporate tax rate is 25%.

Canada is 15%
Germany is 16%
UK is 20%
South Korea is 22%
China is 25%
Japan is 28%
US is 35%

 

[Syntsui]

Now imagine if they payed taxes!

 

[Slayer-33]

These are inhumane numbers, Apple is nuts

 

[Ninja Dom]

Doesn't seem like anything unannounced is coming anytime soon. Apple Watch and iPad Pro seems like this year's new launches. I hope they can prove me wrong on the Apple Watch like they did with the ipad

"People don't want phones with larger screens!"

Please. Even though I jumped ship to Android, good for Apple. Healthy competition benefits everyone.

I think everyone knew that perfect size nonsense wasn't going to last forever...well everyone besides the crackberry level Apple fans.

It was about holding off. It wasn't about jumping in and saying "me too" as soon as the Note 2 launched and the S3 went to the size it was. Apple held out perfectly. Played the waiting game. Even dissuaded customers against it when they never had the large screen (you'd have to if you were a business).

Then BOOM, start selling high quality large screen phones in September 2014 and the rest is history (what we're reading with these results).

All people wanted was (Apple iOS, branding, hardware) + Large screen

Large screen was very important to some so they went to (Other OS, other manufacturer) + Large screen

But now we have the Apple solution, the crowds are coming over.

 

[Rocket Scientist]

26% isn't that disappointing, considering the average OECD corporate tax rate is 25%.

It's disappointing because I wanted to complain about a large corporation not paying enough taxes =)

 

[jimbobsmells]

So what's the final number on total taxes paid?

Now imagine if they payed taxes!

I've seen this kind of comment on a few articles about their latest results. They pay what they are legally required to pay. In that sense they are no different to the vast majority of companies out there. People should direct their anger at their MP / Congressman if you want that to change.

 

[rezuth]

It was about holding off. It wasn't about jumping in and saying "me too" as soon as the Note 2 launched and the S3 went to the size it was. Apple held out perfectly. Played the waiting game. Even dissuaded customers against it when they never had the large screen (you'd have to if you were a business).

Then BOOM, start selling high quality large screen phones in September 2014 and the rest is history (what we're reading with these results).

All people wanted was (Apple iOS, branding, hardware) + Large screen

Large screen was very important to some so they went to (Other OS, other manufacturer) + Large screen

But now we have the Apple solution, the crowds are coming over.

I love my iPhone 6 Plus but its less of a phone and more a small tablet. I used my mothers iPhone 5S the other day and marveled over how I could use it with one hand, I really miss that.

 

[Rocket Scientist]

I've seen this kind of comment on a few articles about their latest results. They pay what they are legally required to pay. In that sense they are no different to the vast majority of companies out there. People should direct their anger at their MP / Congressman if you want that to change.

Sure, the problem is that everything these companies are doing is legal, but I'm still going to be pissed off at anyone involved. Let's not pretend that the tax system hasn't been shaped and formed by lobbying and help from corporations and their lawyers/accountants working on their behalf. If slavery were legal I'd still be pissed off at anyone owning a slave as well.

 

[Ninja Dom]

I love my iPhone 6 Plus but its less of a phone and more a small tablet. I used my mothers iPhone 5S the other day and marveled over how I could use it with one hand, I really miss that.

I've had the standard 6 since launch and handed my 5S down to my girlfriend. It is definitely handy to use the 5S. I wouldn't swap though.

 

[jimbobsmells]

Sure, the problem is that everything these companies are doing is legal, but I'm still going to be pissed off at anyone involved. Let's not pretend that the tax system hasn't been shaped and formed by lobbying and help from corporations and their lawyers/accountants working on their behalf. If slavery were legal I'd still be pissed off at anyone owning a slave as well.

Completely fair point, I agree. My point is that no one seems to take these lobbyists and the government to task about these tax schemes. They get off far too lightly while people just get mad at the companies and scream #BOYCOTT nonsense. Place blame correctly and affect change.

 

[LCfiner]

One of the more interesting numbers that I hadn't heard before in other financial results (might have missed it) was the upgrade percentage from users with older iPhones. Tim Cook said that percentage was approximately in the low teens.

So we're looking at well over 80% being new iphone buyers and switchers from other platforms. that's pretty nuts considering they sold over 70M phones and only a very small fraction were existing iPhone users getting one.

 

[Rocket Scientist]

Completely fair point, I agree. My point is that no one seems to take these lobbyists and the government to task about these tax schemes. They get off far too lightly while people just get mad at the companies and scream #BOYCOTT nonsense. Place blame correctly and affect change.

You're right, I agree. There's not enough pressure on politicians and too much pointless complaining about the corporations themselves.

 

[dark_prinny]

Crazy numbers. I have and iPhone, iPad and rMBP. I can really see why they succeed.

 

[ICPEE]

Fuck me. No really...FUCK ME. I..have no words. How in the hell did they do that

 

[Goodlife]

I don't get it. Really really don't.

But good on them I guess!

 

[Interfectum]

With all that money you'd think they could help to create better working conditions for the people making their products.

 

[Majine]

With all that money you'd think they could help to create better working conditions for the people making their products.

I was pretty sure Foxconn workers are better off than other factories in the region, because of all the attention they get.

 

[Cheebo]

With all that money you'd think they could help to create better working conditions for the people making their products.

You do realize they don't run Foxconn right...? They can't force Foxcon to improve their factories. It isn't their company. The same factories and assembly lines that build iPhones build countless products for Sony, Nintendo, Microsoft, Samsung, etc as well.

 

[Draft]

Fuck me. No really...FUCK ME. I..have no words. How in the hell did they do that

It's easy. Just invent the product that defines the most vital personal computing method of the 21st century. It helps if you have a decent marketing department.

 

[lenos16]

sony to lay off 1000 people in its smartphone divisions.

http://www.neowin.net/news/sony-to-lay-off-1000-people-in-smartphone-divisions

More of that "healthy competition" for ya!

Err what's wrong with this? People buy products they want and the companies make an offering depending on their own capabilities. It just shows that Sony either doesn't have the core competencies for the smartphone sector, or they are bad at communicating it to the consumer. Regardless of which one, the market has spoken and Sony decided to pull out. That is real competition, some thrive some die. Not to mention, the amount of new players in the Smartphone sector has increased a lot since the launch of the first iPhone. The competition isn't dead, it has just shifted to new players.

 

[LevelNth]

I purchased some Apple stock in the midst of the iPod boom, and then more right after the iPhone announcement. Averaging out the price per share, as of this morning those shares are currently sitting at a 742.6% ROI if I were to sell today.

This company has boggled my mind with the level of success they have seen.

 

[dorn.]

Isn't companies just hoarding this kind of cash terrible for the overall economy?

They don't literally have a bank vault full of cash Scrooge McDuck style, it's in the form of bonds and other liquid assets.

 

[TarpitCarnivore]

sony to lay off 1000 people in its smartphone divisions.

http://www.neowin.net/news/sony-to-lay-off-1000-people-in-smartphone-divisions

More of that "healthy competition" for ya!

By your logic every single company should remain in operation regardless of their ability to capture the market. Tons of once prominent companies go out of business or begin to restructure because they fail to hold onto the market. Off the top of my head some once prominent companies who either shuddered or reshifted their focus: Sega, Polaroid, Kodak, The Wiz (crushed by Best Buy), Pan-Am, TWA.

Isn't companies just hoarding this kind of cash terrible for the overall economy?

Depends on who you ask and what their philosophy is when it comes to the economy.

 

[Lagamorph]

They don't literally have a bank vault full of cash Scrooge McDuck style, it's in the form of bonds and other liquid assets.

Isn't there still an ultimately finite amount of currency though? For the everyday person it makes no difference, but for Apple to be sitting on that much raw capital must surely have an impact.

 

[TarpitCarnivore]

Isn't there still an ultimately finite amount of currency though? For the everyday person it makes no difference, but for Apple to be sitting on that much raw capital must surely have an impact.

Impact how? Wall Street is annoyed because they would prefer to see Apple spending that money on something (like an actual Apple TV (so stupid)). From a "inject the economy" standpoint I just don't see how them have that much on hand is an issue. Apple pays their employees well, they have hundreds of chains in the US alone employing people, they're building a new campus which is putting people to work, they're building assembly factories. At some point you can only do much with what you have on hand with regards to injecting back into the economy. From a business perspective 200BN means ability to buy companies (like Beats), invest more into R&D and feel comfortable if things result in down quarters.

 

[Mr Git]

You do realize they don't run Foxconn right...? They can't force Foxcon to improve their factories. It isn't their company. The same factories and assembly lines that build iPhones build countless products for Sony, Nintendo, Microsoft, Samsung, etc as well.

They don't own Foxconn, no, neither do they own their other major Chinese supplier Pegatron - but that doesn't mean they don't have a huge influence on these companies. For the amount of cheap labour they employ in China, they could quite easily build their own facilities and drastically increase the standard of living and working conditions.
The BBC's Panorama had quite an eye opening documentary recently on the conditions in these places, focusing on iPhone 6 production lines.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b04vs348/panorama-apples-broken-promises - if you're not able to use the iPlayer there are plenty of articles containing summaries about this programme.
Apple are singled out more for their complacency because they have gargantuan profits like this one, but also since they state that they have sound ethics for their manufacturing, or that they're improving them. Even in Apple's own standards manifesto you have statements like, "no more than eight individuals shall occupy one [staff] dormitory sleeping room." The above programme found that 12 people were sharing, but when you have billions in profit it's a wonder they're forced to use dorms at all.
Not to mention the sheer brazen tax avoidance Apple commit. Which isn't limited to the US, either.

 

[TarpitCarnivore]

Not to mention the sheer brazen tax avoidance Apple commit. Which isn't limited to the US, either.

So does Google, Facebook, Microsoft and hundreds of other hugely profitable companies.

 

[Cheebo]

For the amount of cheap labour they employ in China, they could quite easily build their own facilities and drastically increase the standard of living and working conditions.

No, they can't. Building factories isn't just something you can do on a whim because you have the money for something produceced in quantity that iPhone is produced. To have a factory that produces products at the insane rate that iPhones need to be produced without issues at the production level is not something you can just do. It isn't about money or being able to hire factory workers. It is basically impossible to just build a factory to produce iPhones at the same level and the same low failure rate. It isn't about money. It's about ability.

 

[Mr Git]

So does Google, Facebook, Microsoft and hundreds of other hugely profitable companies.

Yep, that doesn't make it okay. They're all shits. Apple is just the shit with the biggest net worth. Proportionately I pay more tax than Starbucks in the UK. I make myself feel better by going in and stealing their mugs.

 

[DrFunk]

Called it many times

Knew there was a ton of pent up demand for bigger screens


Bravo Apple

Yuuuup

You guys ready to admit people wanted a bigger iPhone?

 

[Lagamorph]

Impact how? Wall Street is annoyed because they would prefer to see Apple spending that money on something (like an actual Apple TV (so stupid)). From a "inject the economy" standpoint I just don't see how them have that much on hand is an issue. Apple pays their employees well, they have hundreds of chains in the US alone employing people, they're building a new campus which is putting people to work, they're building assembly factories. At some point you can only do much with what you have on hand with regards to injecting back into the economy. From a business perspective 200BN means ability to buy companies (like Beats), invest more into R&D and feel comfortable if things result in down quarters.

Shame they can't spend some of that money on acceptable working conditions for their manufacturing plants

 

[BSsBrolly]

Yuuuup

You guys ready to admit people wanted a bigger iPhone?

I've been waiting for a bigger iPhone since the iPhone 4. I came running back to Apple for the iPhone 6.

 

[Mr Git]

No, they can't. Building factories isn't just something you can do on a whim because you have the money for something produceced in quantity that iPhone is produced. To have a factory that produces products at the insane rate that iPhones need to be produced without issues at the production level is not something you can just do. It isn't about money or being able to hire factory workers. It is basically impossible to just build a factory to produce iPhones at the same level and the same low failure rate. It isn't about money. It's about ability.

Why wouldn't they be able to? I'm not trying to be argumentative, I'm genuinely curious. From my view they'd be more than able to construct or even purchase facilities to improve the workers' standards. Surely with better staff conditions the product quality would be better, rather than be in danger.

 

[borghe]

Yuuuup

You guys ready to admit people wanted a bigger iPhone?

"people", yes.. though there are a number of things that have to be taken into account

non-S models almost always sell better than S models (newer form factor)
a huge number of people were going to upgrade to the 6 whether it was 4" or 5", simply because it was an iphone.
there is no 4" version available for comparison of people who might actually prefer a 4" version (such as myself)
lastly, I think these numbers (and all smartphone numbers) from 2014 are slightly skewed due to US carriers implementing the no-contract plans, essentially releasing most customers prior to March/April from their subsidies. Add on to that the $200-300 credit these companies were offering with the iphone launch.. and needless to say there are a TON of people who upgraded who either might not have been eligible or at least would have normally kept their 1-2 year old phone vs. taking an unsubsidized 6.

Not bashing apple at all. That is a ridiculous number of phones. So ridiculous it actually had me asking "wtf!?" when I saw it.. this was where I cam up with my reasoning.. because yeah, it is just a silly number of phones. Apple made a smart (market) move with the bigger screen, and lucked out with that coinciding with the shift to no contract plans from US carriers.

 

[numble]

Proportionately I pay more tax than Starbucks in the UK.

That's not really saying much. UK corporate tax is 21% (will lower to 20% this year), while personal individual income tax is over double at 45%. The international trend is low corporate rates and high individual rates.

 

[BrokenIcarus]

Can someone tell me what's up with these weird quarters?

Apple Q1 Report

Microsoft Q2 Report

Nintendo Q3 Report

?????

What the fuck is going on here?

 

[numble]

Can someone tell me what's up with these weird quarters?

Apple Q1 Report

Microsoft Q2 Report

Nintendo Q3 Report

?????

What the fuck is going on here?

They can define when their fiscal year starts/ends, which can be different from the actual calendar year.

 

[TarpitCarnivore]

Can someone tell me what's up with these weird quarters?

Apple Q1 Report

Microsoft Q2 Report

Nintendo Q3 Report

?????

What the fuck is going on here?

It depends on how they report.

 

[TarpitCarnivore]

Shame they can't spend some of that money on acceptable working conditions for their manufacturing plants

For all we know they have given them money to improve things. Those kind of things don't end up in fiscal reports though.

 

[Bboy AJ]

So does Google, Facebook, Microsoft and hundreds of other hugely profitable companies.

How is this a legitimate response? Concentration camps aren't so bad. Germany had them, North Korea. See!

 

[Mr Git]

That's not really saying much. UK corporate tax is 21% (will lower to 20% this year), while personal individual income tax is over double at 45%. The international trend is low corporate rates and high individual rates.

Well considering Starbucks paid no tax for years, that is saying something. They don't even pay full corporation tax, even after they were rumbled. My point is that these companies don't even adhere to the considerably modest and bullshit tax regulations anyway.

 

[TarpitCarnivore]

How is this a legitimate response? Concentration camps aren't so bad. Germany had them, North Korea. See!

Not what I was implying or even going for. My statement was to the original comment about how Apple is evil for tax evasion. I see it come up a lot when people list a negative to Apple yet they'll exclaim praise over another company who is doing similar practices.

 

[CosmicGroinPull]

Sheeesh. Simply obscene amounts of money.

 

[Lagamorph]

For all we know they have given them money to improve things. Those kind of things don't end up in fiscal reports though.

If they had then Apple would've made a big song and dance about how they were investing in disadvantaged people and improving conditions.

 

[marc^o^]

It's easy. Just invent the product that defines the most vital personal computing method of the 21st century. It helps if you have a decent marketing department.

Nicely summarized.

 

[mackaveli]

If they had then Apple would've made a big song and dance about how they were investing in disadvantaged people and improving conditions.

https://www.apple.com/ca/supplier-responsibility/

They have a lot of info here.

 

[badcrumble]

The funny thing to me is the people who fervently believe that Apple's success is an aberration that's going to correct itself any day now, just like they believe that the only reason people would buy an Apple product is because of Apple's wizard magic making them incapable of rational purchase decisions.