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The Order 1886: Official spoiler thread for all black bars
- Thread starter viveks86
- Start date
WordsintheWater
Member
haha that's awesome
NotTheGuyYouKill
Member
Yeah, I mentioned it earlier that he basically becomes Victorian-era steampunk Batman with Tesla as his Alfred.
Even they admit it!
One shot from the credits of the game....OoOoOoO so awesome.
Posted this in the main thread but just realized it would probably be more suited here. Does anybody else feel that the reasons why the Half Breed conflict exists should have been explored more in this game? This war is the reason behind the actions of everyone in the story but there's barely any information about how it happened.
Chin35char
Member
I don't care what people say, I loved this game. I definitely wish it was longer though, and it could do with less walking.
@KC Denton:
However, there is something that I didn't quite understand. Now maybe it was explained in the game and I just didn't catch it (and it's probably already been discussed in this thread but I'm too lazy and tired to try and go through all the pages to search for it) but why
Well, I think the conflict is so old that, at this point, it doesn't even matter anymore that the original reasons for it may have been stupid ones. I mean, just think about it, thousands of years ago the pure-blood lycans and humans were probably pitted against each other, either because the lycans hunted humans for food or because both races fought for territory/food sources, etc. There would've likely been a huge antagonism between the groups and humans would have learned to fear lycans, would've probably thought of them as monsters, etc. Then the first half-breeds show up and the humans probably "shoot" (they didn't have firearms back then but you get what I mean 
... well, they had bows) first and ask questions later. I mean, those things look like monsters, they look like they could rip you to shreds so you won't spend a lot of time trying to understand what it is and what its motives are. You kill it before it can kill you. And then, obviously, the half-breeds see how the humans are treating their brethren so they then start hating the humans for it and it's essentially a vicious cycle. Every time one side commits an aggression against the other it fosters the other side's belief that the first side is evil and that they need to defend themselves against it. It also doesn't seem like the half-breeds are in any way organised so that would complicate matters. It's not like they have their own state/government, etc. so there's no one who could negotiate with the humans on their behalf, no one who could enforce any sort of rules or laws in the half-breed community, etc. Even if there are half-breeds who are decent, humans will always judge them by the members of their species who commit the most heinous acts and as they have no spokesperson or "PR manager" (lol) there's nobody who could right that misconception (if it is a misconception).
... well, they had bows) first and ask questions later. I mean, those things look like monsters, they look like they could rip you to shreds so you won't spend a lot of time trying to understand what it is and what its motives are. You kill it before it can kill you. And then, obviously, the half-breeds see how the humans are treating their brethren so they then start hating the humans for it and it's essentially a vicious cycle. Every time one side commits an aggression against the other it fosters the other side's belief that the first side is evil and that they need to defend themselves against it. It also doesn't seem like the half-breeds are in any way organised so that would complicate matters. It's not like they have their own state/government, etc. so there's no one who could negotiate with the humans on their behalf, no one who could enforce any sort of rules or laws in the half-breed community, etc. Even if there are half-breeds who are decent, humans will always judge them by the members of their species who commit the most heinous acts and as they have no spokesperson or "PR manager" (lol) there's nobody who could right that misconception (if it is a misconception).However, there is something that I didn't quite understand. Now maybe it was explained in the game and I just didn't catch it (and it's probably already been discussed in this thread but I'm too lazy and tired to try and go through all the pages to search for it) but why
are the half-breeds and the vampires working together? I mean, why is Lucan working for Hastings? Usually, lycans and vampires are supposed to be enemies. Is that not the case in The Order's lore? Is the human threat to both sides so great that they have no choice but to team up? Or what is it *confused*?
ArkkAngel007
Member
@KC Denton:Well, I think the conflict is so old that, at this point, it doesn't even matter anymore that the original reasons for it may have been stupid ones. I mean, just think about it, thousands of years ago the pure-blood lycans and humans were probably pitted against each other, either because the lycans hunted humans for food or because both races fought for territory/food sources, etc. There would've likely been a huge antagonism between the groups and humans would have learned to fear lycans, would've probably thought of them as monsters, etc. Then the first half-breeds show up and the humans probably "shoot" (they didn't have firearms back then but you get what I mean
However, there is something that I didn't quite understand. Now maybe it was explained in the game and I just didn't catch it (and it's probably already been discussed in this thread but I'm too lazy and tired to try and go through all the pages to search for it) but whyare the half-breeds and the vampires working together? I mean, why is Lucan working for Hastings? Usually, lycans and vampires are supposed to be enemies. Is that not the case in The Order's lore? Is the human threat to both sides so great that they have no choice but to team up? Or what is it *confused*?
Mutual cause.
Since humans have become technologically advanced to tip the scales in their favor, the half breeds need to cooperate to overcome this new advantage of the humans (though I don't see why half breeds can't utilize the technology for themselves... :\). Lucan and his people need the help, and the Kindred (Hastings) and his kind need the muscle for when they are being transported and vulnerable.
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
I believe there was an explanation along that went something like
things are getting rough for the Lycans in their struggle with humans and they are getting desperate, so they reached out to work with the vampires
I guess you're right in that the cycle has become too embedded for the origin to mean anything, but the half-breeds can go completely as human. Couldn't they merge into human society in their human forms and gain the trust of people through that? Lucan ascended to an extremely high position, and the regard by which Galahad regarded him prior to the betrayal indicates that his rise was through merit. Even though Lucan ended up following a corrupt man, it feels like the Lord Chancellor could have instead used the opportunity to start integrating half-breeds into "normal" society by keeping a close eye on him and gradually revealing the truth to the most trustworthy knights over time. If LC had that much hesitation over killing a half-breed child, he could have used the (hundreds of?) years spent raising Lucan to reexamine his preconceptions about half-breeds.
I'm pretty sure the standard lore behind vampires and werewolves is not being strictly adhered to otherwise half-breeds would only be able to transform at the full moon instead of at will and would be invulnerable to lead bullets.
Okay, makes sense .
EDIT:
Yes, that does seem like a bit of a plot hole.
.
Vampires seem to be pretty underground in The Order's world, though. Like, I don't think regular people even know they (still?) exist. I mean, I would think that if vampires were actually more well-known and had more of an open presence, as the half-breeds do, then organisations such as The Order would not have such a fixation on half-breeds but would have a more general mission of defending humanity against all abominations, including vampires. It certainly is an interesting idea to think that human actions drobe both races into such a desperate position that they now have to join forces. I'm sure a lot of very interesting stuff could be done with that in future games.
EDIT:
Yes, that does seem like a bit of a plot hole.
That he, on the one hand, felt pity for a half-breed child, then watched him grow up all these years and still loves him as his own son but, on the other hand, still thinks all other half-breeds are monsters. It just doesn't really want to go together (unless I'm missing anything here).
That's kind of the whole premise of the game
. (Or well, not the whole premise LOL. For that you'd still have to add the Blackwater and the Knights.) That they had to come up with better technology faster because they needed it to defend against the half-breeds so they'd have put more resources into developing new weapons technologies, etc. because it would've had a higher overall priority for governments and for society as a whole.That's kind of the whole premise of the game
Guess that makes sense, yet another plot point never alluded to at all in the game though.
Honestly, though, I'd rather have something not brought up/left ambivalent in the game than have them trying to shoehorn cringe-worthily over-expository dialogue into it. I guess they could have had a short text explaining it at the beginning of the game (like in the Star Wars films) or maybe had a text about it in one of the newspapers/books we could read but I'm definitely glad they didn't try to squeeze too much exposition into the dialogue.
ok. some things that where left unanswered but felt like they shouldn't have been...
where did the leader of the rebellion go after being attacked by "jack the ripper"?
what was igrain doing after she got all pissed off after finding the shack you were recovering in?
who the hell was the guy in the shack who looked like an assassins creed reject?
early on percival says he'll explain who he was meeting with and why but obviously dies...who was that, was it the guy in the shack?
if there is one thing i didnt like about the order is that is had these questions i feel should havbe been answered in this game, but seem like they've been put aside for a possible sequel maybe? i dunno.
otherwise i actually loved it start to end.
where did the leader of the rebellion go after being attacked by "jack the ripper"?
what was igrain doing after she got all pissed off after finding the shack you were recovering in?
who the hell was the guy in the shack who looked like an assassins creed reject?
early on percival says he'll explain who he was meeting with and why but obviously dies...who was that, was it the guy in the shack?
if there is one thing i didnt like about the order is that is had these questions i feel should havbe been answered in this game, but seem like they've been put aside for a possible sequel maybe? i dunno.
otherwise i actually loved it start to end.
Brad Grenz
Member
Why do you need an audiolog? One of the most famous inventors in history is literally working directly for the Order creating new weapons for the express purpose of fighting halfbreeds. The characters don't have knowledge of another timeline where this didn't happen. There is no "normal" for them to ever draw a comparison to in fiction.
I think the thing about who Percival met may have been hinted at in the game, actually.
As for what Igrain did after that scene...
The guy in the shack,
There was that one audio log in the United India House (in the final room where you have to search everything) which is that one guy recording his last will and he says something like "give the contents of the coffer to Sebastian, it's the proof he needs" or sth along those lines. Now we all know that the old Percival (we really should use their real names because Percival could refer to both Sebastian and Lafayette) was named Sebastian and I'm pretty sure that it's the same Sebastian this audio log is referring to. I can't remember whose last will it was, though (it was in the audio log but I'm not sure anymore). I do remember that, at the end of it, his wife came into the room and she clearly did something that upset the guy (maybe she killed him?). In any case, perhaps Sebastian was meeting up with the guy who gave him the contents of the coffer? Or it was just one of the Warrior Queen's men (keep forgetting her name) and he had been in contact with her? He must've gotten his suspicions from somewhere after all. On the one hand, I don't think he got them from her but then on the other hand, she obviously knew Tesla and Tesla knew about the conspiracy, so perhaps it's not that far-fetched to assume that Sebastian also knew her and he and Tesla were working together.
As for what Igrain did after that scene...
is there any reason to believe she did anything note-worthy afterwards? I may be forgetting something (my memory isn't the best) but I'd assume she just continued spear-heading the search for Grayson.
The guy in the shack,
that certainly is an interesting question. I'd have to rewatch the scene to try and pick up on clues. He knows about the conspiracy, he knows Tesla but he's definitely not affiliated with the Warrior Queen since she had no idea about Gray's situation until Tesla sought her out and brought her to him. If the man had been one of hers, she would've already known and probably been there sooner. So that narrows it down, I suppose, but chances are it's simply not someone we've previously encountered/heard about in the game so it'd be impossible for us to actually identify him. I'm sure he'll be in the sequel (if they'll get one greenlit). There was that one newspaper article that talked about Grayson's escape and it also talked about some figure lurking around the bridge... I think? Perhaps that was supposed to be a reference to Tesla and this guy as they were there to help Gray out of the water. I don't know. I think we did get to see at least part of his voice, though, didn't we? Did we see any part of the face of the guy Sebastian met up with? I have feeling they aren't the same guy but if we did get to see both their faces we could check to make sure.
well...from the story, it's easy to put the missing pieces together like:
The only question I still have:
The Order is founded by Vampires. The so called "Black Water" is nothing but vampire blood, that gives humans long life and super reflexes. This because obvious when Lafayette became a Knight, he had to mix his blood in the same bottle he drinks the black water from. Not to mention the Grand Chancellor is a confirmed Vampire (aka Jack the Ripper). It's either his blood in their necklace bottles, or an even more ancient/powerful Vampire.
Are the Order enemies or allies of the Lycans? Why would the Lycans be there protecting that warehouse full of sleeping vampires?
I remember another poster here hypothesising that it may be Merlin or Arthur himself. Makes sense since we can assume that it is one of them who gave Lakshmi the ability to drink the blackwater. Considering that only the highest ranking official in the order can make someone a knight and give them the power to drink blackwater.
I think you're a little confused. As far as we know, no other order members other than Lucan are half-breeds or vampires. Hastings, head of the United India Company is a vampire and responsible for the jack the ripper murders
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Grand Chancellor isn't Jack the Ripper. Lord Hastings is.
I'm just highlighting that it's yet another story element that is glossed over throughout the game. So much about the story, setting and characters is left unexplained or even acknowledged, the game just drops you in the deep end and assumes you know that the knights live for hundreds of years, Tesla is just knocking about and werewolves too. Poor storytelling really.
Not really. It's subtle storytelling. And also ultimately this is a story about
Grayson and his awakening. Since at the end he turns his back on The Order.
Honestly, that first walk through Whitechapel tells you everything you need to know about where that story is going.
Abinash117
Member
I guess it was just promo reasons
Leaving things completely unexplained with little evidence and clues to why certain things happened doesn't seem to me a good way of storytelling( especially if it sit up for a sequel and if nothing was resolved ) to me. Dark souls for instance doesn't tell you everything, but there's enough clues available to give you a hint to what's going on. I think for some people( not necessarily me all the time) knowing the characters motivations helps relate to them, understand their actions during the game, show whats at stake during the story, and at times explain what going on with the story that explains some things. If that doesn't work or it doesn't happen for some people it doesn't make them really care about the characters or events and make the game seem boring.
I'm starting my replay of the game and I'm picking a lot of story cues I missed.
Like Tesla and Darwin being members the rebels with Tesla directly supplying them with new weapons without serial numbers.
I also now understand the entire flow of the rebel/Lycan conflict in chapters 1-4:
1)Rebels capture Lycans and bring them to Hospital.
2)Some of their prisoners escape and heads towards Hastings to tell him what happened. (Chapter 1)
3)As a response, Lycans attack the rebel stronghold. (Chapter 3,4)
And there are also various blink and you'll miss them story cues about how corrupt the government is that suggests that there is more decay within The Order than a Lycan/Vampire conspiracy.
I also now understand the entire flow of the rebel/Lycan conflict in chapters 1-4:
1)Rebels capture Lycans and bring them to Hospital.
2)Some of their prisoners escape and heads towards Hastings to tell him what happened. (Chapter 1)
3)As a response, Lycans attack the rebel stronghold. (Chapter 3,4)
And there are also various blink and you'll miss them story cues about how corrupt the government is that suggests that there is more decay within The Order than a Lycan/Vampire conspiracy.
harriet the spy
Member
I enjoyed the game for what it was (a light TPS+Telltale game), story was somewhat enjoyable, but man did the dialogue suck. I don't think I have ever seen so many clichés per second, especially in the Lakshmi/Grayson and Lucan/Grayson dialogues
"You and I are not so different". I mean the pull out that line twice. Come on, guys
Lakshmi was a great character, btw. For all the hoopla about not having a black character as part of the main team, it's pretty nice there were two major characters who were Indian (who probably rank very very low in relative representation in video games) and positively presented. Too bad they couldn't restrain themselves of making Lakshmi a very very mild love interest.
"You and I are not so different". I mean the pull out that line twice. Come on, guys
Lakshmi was a great character, btw. For all the hoopla about not having a black character as part of the main team, it's pretty nice there were two major characters who were Indian (who probably rank very very low in relative representation in video games) and positively presented. Too bad they couldn't restrain themselves of making Lakshmi a very very mild love interest.
EdReedFan20
Member
So I just beat it. I'd give it maybe a 7 or 7.5/10. So, some thoughts I had about a potential sequel (or sequels) is to include cameos of famous literary characters/monsters. With the revelation that vampires also exist, I do think it would be fun to have Van Helsing be a character (maybe have Dracula, too?). As others have said, Dr. Jekyll/Mr. Hyde would be a cool villain as well. Another fun bit would be having a level where you work with Sherlock Holmes and Dr. Watson. Another wishful bit is a level where you assist Dr. Frankenstein in tracking his creation. With these additions, the Order wouldn't be just a group of Knights that fight half-breeds, but defends the earth from all forms of supernatural evil.
The way things ended up in this game as well as what some of the audio logs discuss, it seems to me like the story RaD is telling is more about how the Order is a highly corrupted organization with a questionable outlook on the rest of the world than anything else.
Finished the game a few nights ago and loved it. I really hope the bad press doesn't ruin the chance for a sequel.
I really wanted to fire that weapon at the end. Tesla's Death Ray, maybe?
If a sequel does come, I think it'd be cool to incorporate some of Tesla's odder inventions too, like using his earthquake machine to destroy a bridge or building.
I really wanted to fire that weapon at the end. Tesla's Death Ray, maybe?
If a sequel does come, I think it'd be cool to incorporate some of Tesla's odder inventions too, like using his earthquake machine to destroy a bridge or building.
Except Galahad leaves London, and nothing's solved, the bad guys are still in power, the good guy's are unaware of the conspiracy inside the order and Jack the Ripper goes free.
WordsintheWater
Member
I'm pretty sure Galahad is still in London at the end of the game, Tesla tells him to leave and go with Lakshmi, but he stays behind and says he will "join him shortly"
Oh and I believe the dude in the hood is Sir Bors, they talk about him a few times in the game, Lakshmi mentions him in how she got her blackwater and Galahad says that he's been missing. The hooded guy is also the person Perceval is talking to in the first few chapters when Galahad is suspecting something.
GreyOcelot
Member
damn. this game falls off a cliff after the big chapter 11 reveals. clearly they rushed and cobbled together a finale for this game
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
I'm betting on the hooded guy being Merlin or maybe King Arthur.
Nothing about the final scene suggests he stays behind, I'm sure he'll return to the city at some point, but it's quite clear thanks to the whole city being on alert that he can't really accomplish much at the moment.
And all the other points still stand.
Ultimately the game turned out worse than I initially believed it was headed towards. All the talk leading up about "interactive movie" or all the claims of story over gameplay, turned out to be true in a lot of ways. They clearly cared a lot more about the story they were telling, than the game we as fans would be playing. I have a few theories on how this happened that I will lay out in a minute, but I'll post a few thoughts.
Pros
- The visuals. I don't think anybody disagrees here. Best looking game I've ever seen. Blew my mind the entire time I was playing.
- STRONG gunplay. The guns pack a punch, and the enemies react accordingly. There is a good amount of variation across rifles and pistols. I will say some of the weapons were either pointless or OP, but they were still fun. Really wish we got to use the Thermite gun more, bizarre how that feels tacked on. It reminds me of an insomniac weapon and it really was a lot of fun.
- Atmosphere. The game oozes atmosphere. The settings are varied and unique.
Cons
- Despite the amazing atmosphere and varied scenes, a complete lack of execution or use for these environments.
- the most 1 dimensional game I've played in years. The prologue is 1 big cutscenes, technically you "play", but honestly they were better off not having you control it every 3 or 4 minutes for 2 seconds like they did, it really doesn't do a good job of hiding that you're watching one long cutscene.
- Cutscene-Gameplay Ratio is disgraceful. I'll say it again, they clearly cared far more about telling their story than building a game around that story, or using the game to tell that story. A ton of the exposition and dialog could've been done during scenes where you're exploring or working with your teammates, rather than forcing me to watch just about every second of it.
- lack of difficulty. It's been said a few times in here, but there is a lack of challenge in the game. This on hard for me was similar to normal on any other TPS, and there are no difficulties above the 3 ones from the getgo.
- Boring tacked on side mechanics. The whole "detective" thing is non-existant. When you occasionally do have to locate something, it's in an awkward scene looking through the monocular until you find a triangle prompt. Feels incredibly lazy and tacked on.
in the end the mechanics are all there. I had glowing impressions from e3, because I was convinced there would be more to the game. I got to try the cover system, I got to try the gunplay (including the thermite gun), and I really thought if the gunplay and the guns were so varied and solid, there had to be more. Generally when a game is bad or poorly made most everything falls apart, but this is a rare case that when you're actually in control the game has a good amount to like. I'm hoping they switch gears for their next game- whether it's a sequel to this, or it's a new game using this engine- they need to learn from their mistakes, and look more into what it is that makes a game "cinematic".
Final verdict for me after mulling it over and grabbing the plat- 5.5
Pros
- The visuals. I don't think anybody disagrees here. Best looking game I've ever seen. Blew my mind the entire time I was playing.
- STRONG gunplay. The guns pack a punch, and the enemies react accordingly. There is a good amount of variation across rifles and pistols. I will say some of the weapons were either pointless or OP, but they were still fun. Really wish we got to use the Thermite gun more, bizarre how that feels tacked on. It reminds me of an insomniac weapon and it really was a lot of fun.
- Atmosphere. The game oozes atmosphere. The settings are varied and unique.
Cons
- Despite the amazing atmosphere and varied scenes, a complete lack of execution or use for these environments.
- the most 1 dimensional game I've played in years. The prologue is 1 big cutscenes, technically you "play", but honestly they were better off not having you control it every 3 or 4 minutes for 2 seconds like they did, it really doesn't do a good job of hiding that you're watching one long cutscene.
- Cutscene-Gameplay Ratio is disgraceful. I'll say it again, they clearly cared far more about telling their story than building a game around that story, or using the game to tell that story. A ton of the exposition and dialog could've been done during scenes where you're exploring or working with your teammates, rather than forcing me to watch just about every second of it.
- lack of difficulty. It's been said a few times in here, but there is a lack of challenge in the game. This on hard for me was similar to normal on any other TPS, and there are no difficulties above the 3 ones from the getgo.
- Boring tacked on side mechanics. The whole "detective" thing is non-existant. When you occasionally do have to locate something, it's in an awkward scene looking through the monocular until you find a triangle prompt. Feels incredibly lazy and tacked on.
in the end the mechanics are all there. I had glowing impressions from e3, because I was convinced there would be more to the game. I got to try the cover system, I got to try the gunplay (including the thermite gun), and I really thought if the gunplay and the guns were so varied and solid, there had to be more. Generally when a game is bad or poorly made most everything falls apart, but this is a rare case that when you're actually in control the game has a good amount to like. I'm hoping they switch gears for their next game- whether it's a sequel to this, or it's a new game using this engine- they need to learn from their mistakes, and look more into what it is that makes a game "cinematic".
Final verdict for me after mulling it over and grabbing the plat- 5.5
WordsintheWater
Member
Didn't debate any of the other points and what I got from it is that he stays behind.
I already talked about my opinions on the story in the OT, but after thinking about the game some more, I figured Id make a list of unresolved plotlines just for the heck of it. I guess we are still doing spoiler tags here?
So yeah, pretty much nothing is resolved by the end of this game.
And for additional reading pleasure, a list of some cringeworthy clichés used in The Order and specifically the last few chapters, almost all of which I feel like could have been avoided;
Now, I dont think clichés or the use of them are inherently bad; they have their merits and when used properly can support certain story beats, character arcs or plot points, but the way they were used in this game was just awful and unneeded at times, and the final scenes were cringe-inducing and confusing.
The discovery of the next shipment in the archives. - Unresolved; Galahad does not deal with the shipment and it is unknown if the rebels have taken any action in destroying it.
The fate of rebel-leader-woman-whose-name-I-already-forgot and the rest of the rebels. - Somewhat resolved; we see her escape, but thats about it. The rebels play no further part in the story, but in the credits-scene, martial law is in effect. What would that mean for the rebels?
Igraine being all angry due to a misunderstanding (Which could have been very easily cleared up by having Galahad out the vampire conspiracy at any time ever at all.) and sending every able Knight on a manhunt for Galahad. - Unresolved; Igraine is not seen for the rest of the game and no hostile Knights are encountered.
The mystery man, his relation to Perceval and what his motivations were and what the purpose of his actions or him being in the story at all were. - Unresolved; we get a very minimal and flimsy backstory from cliché-rebel-leader, but the character is never actually introduced, never has meaningful screen time, and the game never explains anything about his role in all this or anything else about him for that matter.
What did Perceval know of the conspiracy and what was he doing to stop it? Was he in touch with the rebels or not? Etc. - Unresolved; Perceval was unnecessarily killed off before anything was explained.
The vampire conspiracy central to the plot. - Unresolved; apparently, the Knights are still oblivious to the vampire conspiracy, Hastings is alive and well, still in charge and under protection, it is not clear which Knights are part of the conspiracy, and the second shipment discussed here earlier has not been stopped.
The fate of rebel-leader-woman-whose-name-I-already-forgot and the rest of the rebels. - Somewhat resolved; we see her escape, but thats about it. The rebels play no further part in the story, but in the credits-scene, martial law is in effect. What would that mean for the rebels?
Igraine being all angry due to a misunderstanding (Which could have been very easily cleared up by having Galahad out the vampire conspiracy at any time ever at all.) and sending every able Knight on a manhunt for Galahad. - Unresolved; Igraine is not seen for the rest of the game and no hostile Knights are encountered.
The mystery man, his relation to Perceval and what his motivations were and what the purpose of his actions or him being in the story at all were. - Unresolved; we get a very minimal and flimsy backstory from cliché-rebel-leader, but the character is never actually introduced, never has meaningful screen time, and the game never explains anything about his role in all this or anything else about him for that matter.
What did Perceval know of the conspiracy and what was he doing to stop it? Was he in touch with the rebels or not? Etc. - Unresolved; Perceval was unnecessarily killed off before anything was explained.
The vampire conspiracy central to the plot. - Unresolved; apparently, the Knights are still oblivious to the vampire conspiracy, Hastings is alive and well, still in charge and under protection, it is not clear which Knights are part of the conspiracy, and the second shipment discussed here earlier has not been stopped.
So yeah, pretty much nothing is resolved by the end of this game.
And for additional reading pleasure, a list of some cringeworthy clichés used in The Order and specifically the last few chapters, almost all of which I feel like could have been avoided;
Rebels are actually the good guys and all of their actions are instantly twisted into being for the greater good. Cliché noble rebel leader character shows protagonist that the people he once trusted are actually the real evil. Shocking!
You and I are not so different. followed by a scene in which the villain is made out to be a misunderstood person with tragic backstory (Despite this not making any sense or even remotely being related to or supported by anything that happened before it in The Orders story.) and a humans-do-terrible-things monologue to force some kind of profound message (Which again, made no sense in the context of the rest of the story; the Knights protecting public order by rooting out indiscriminately murdering werewolves is not the same as those indiscriminately murdering werewolves conspiring with evil vampires - the leader of which is Jack the Ripper - to take over the world.
I cannot shoot this person, please shoot him for me because Im too emotionally attached.-cliché, followed by forcing the player to shoot a character theyre supposed to care for (I didnt because we barely even started to know the character, and what we did know of him was that he was an evil murdering asshole supporting the vampire conspiracy. HE ALSO TRIED TO MURDER YOU MULTIPLE TIMES!), with bonus gunshot-fade-to-black-credits for maximum cliché.
You and I are not so different. followed by a scene in which the villain is made out to be a misunderstood person with tragic backstory (Despite this not making any sense or even remotely being related to or supported by anything that happened before it in The Orders story.) and a humans-do-terrible-things monologue to force some kind of profound message (Which again, made no sense in the context of the rest of the story; the Knights protecting public order by rooting out indiscriminately murdering werewolves is not the same as those indiscriminately murdering werewolves conspiring with evil vampires - the leader of which is Jack the Ripper - to take over the world.
I cannot shoot this person, please shoot him for me because Im too emotionally attached.-cliché, followed by forcing the player to shoot a character theyre supposed to care for (I didnt because we barely even started to know the character, and what we did know of him was that he was an evil murdering asshole supporting the vampire conspiracy. HE ALSO TRIED TO MURDER YOU MULTIPLE TIMES!), with bonus gunshot-fade-to-black-credits for maximum cliché.
Now, I dont think clichés or the use of them are inherently bad; they have their merits and when used properly can support certain story beats, character arcs or plot points, but the way they were used in this game was just awful and unneeded at times, and the final scenes were cringe-inducing and confusing.
The story started off so promising with a great setting and lore, and a simple mystery plot to keep the game moving. Then they killed off Perceval prematurely, and from then on the quality of the writing and overall coherency of events went downhill and dragged the rest of the game with it.
EdReedFan20
Member
Yeah, I hope they tie up a lot of loose ends in the sequel (if there is one). I expect they will. Also, since this is a spoiler thread, I don't think the spoiler tags are necessary.
OsirisBlack
Banned
Sir Bo's, Arthur, Lancelot or Merlin are also my guesses.
I was also really curious if the sword the lord chancellor uses during Lafayette's ceremony is Excalibur.
jediyoshi
Member
I don't think the ending is ambiguous. I'm pretty sure Alastair is supes dead and beardy came to terms with it.
NullPointer
Member
So very ironic that the ending shows this whole mess started because
Is there a point being made here? Or...
the Chancellor couldn't take the life of an innocent.
The handling of "innocents" is one thing this game doesn't seem to understand. From the very beginning you're tasked with taking down bedlamites, but with the guidance to do so non-lethally wherever possible as those Bedlamites are still citizens. They even give you a gun with a wind-blast secondary for just that purpose. But good luck trying to take anything down non-lethally, and good luck trying to avoid killing innocents.
That is only the beginning of course, and is followed up with indiscriminate killing aboard the Agamemnon, the indiscriminate killing of United India guards at the docks and then later at the company HQ. And if that wasn't enough, once Galahad goes rogue he just HAS to go back and wipe out scores of royal guards, because reasons.
That is only the beginning of course, and is followed up with indiscriminate killing aboard the Agamemnon, the indiscriminate killing of United India guards at the docks and then later at the company HQ. And if that wasn't enough, once Galahad goes rogue he just HAS to go back and wipe out scores of royal guards, because reasons.
Is there a point being made here? Or...
There isn't a point. It's textbook ludonarrative dissonance. And unlike uncharted, the script demands you to take it seriously, so it was a bit jarring.
Here's the thing though; Alastair was not established as the main villain at any point prior to the abrupt ending. Killing or defeating Alistair was never the main plot-point, nor was it even the in-story reason given for Galahad going to Nikola's lab; Galahad went there to rescue Nikola, not to fight Alistair or anyone in specific. Despite that, the game suddenly acts as if fighting Alastair is something that Galahad 'must do' (Cliché #1) while painting Alistair as a tragically misunderstood villain that is 'not so different' from the main character (Cliché #2) and has seen humanity do 'terrible things' (Cliché #3). Despite Alastair being previously established as a murderous traitor that was a pawn in an evil vampire conspiracy and who was more than willing to kill Galahad (And likewise, Galahad was more than ready to kill Alastair.), now we're supposed to believe he was 'fighting for the survival of his race' (Cliché #4) and the character is shifted into a tragically fallen / misguided 'brother'-character that the main character still deeply cares for (Cliché #5). Then, for no logical reason at all, the Lord Chancellor shows up out of nowhere to reveal that he 'knew all along' (Cliché #6) and that Alastair is actually the son of an enemy defeated in combat that the 'father-figure' couldn't bear to kill and thus adopted instead (Cliché #7). Lord Chancellor then turns to Galahad and asks him to kill Alastair (Which Galahad was going to do anyways.) because he can't do it himself (Cliché #8) and gives a completely confusing bullshit-reason in the form of 'The Order would be shaken at its very foundations!'; a statement that has nothing to do with anything that happens in the entire ending or anything else in the story.
The Order 'would be shaken at its very foundations'.
The Order.
You mean THE ONE THAT HAS BEEN TAKEN OVER AND INFILTRATED BY AN EVIL VAMPIRE CONSPIRACY TO TAKE OVER THE WORLD LED BY JACK THE RIPPER / DRACULA!?
Then for some reason, the game needs to dramatically establish / "reveal" that Galahad will be kicked out of The Order and shall not be allowed to have fellowship with any of its Knights, despite the fact that Galahad had already been expunged from The Order at that point and was awaiting the death sentence given to him by the Lord Chancellor himself before he escaped from prison. Then the Lord Chancellor leaves the scene with the words 'Finish what you have begun and vanish.', implying that he is still completely oblivious to the vampire conspiracy and apparently thinks Galahad did what he did purely because he discovered Alastair was secretly a Lycan. Then for some reason, we're supposed to feel devastated for having to shoot Alastair, despite the fact that he was a murdering asshole who we were going to kill anyways. And then the game ends with one final insult; gunshot-fade-to-black-credits, resolving none of the plot-points it set up. Oh, and there's a random mid-credits scene which reveals that there is now martial law in London for some reason.
The only thing that was 'resolved' is that Alastair is unambiguously dead, but to be quite frank I don't really care for that, as Alastair was never established as the main antagonist or main objective. Nothing that happened during ending has anything to do with previously established main plot points; almost everything that happened was made up / introduced on the spot or otherwise discarded / disregarded earlier established context.
So yeah, technically Alastair's fate is 'resolved', but it is also a plot-point that was only brought to the forefront of the story during the ending and with disregard for earlier established context.
The ending was a complete mess that drowns out most of the story's actual qualities.
Brad Grenz
Member
Actually, that's not what ludo-narrative dissonance means at all, but I take your meaning (as the term has been widely misapplied in this fashion). But the game is actually making a point. The Order's energy being misspent against human foes and political enemies is a major plot point. It is one of the factors that lead to Galahad, Percival and Lafayette's disillusionment with the status quo and results in the discovery of a conspiracy.
Add to that you have the problem of this powerful group of long lived individuals and its easy to see how they lost respect for the life of mere mortals. Ironically this gives members of the Order something they have in common with Vampires like Lord Hastings who see ordinary humans as nothing.