• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

The Order 1886: Official spoiler thread for all black bars

Brydo0

Neo Member
not if you truly appreciated the implications, & the danger you'd be exposing your friend to. not until you had absolute, solid proof, anyway...

percival was just protecting galahad in the exact same way, as i mentioned above, that galahad was protecting izzy & lafayette. at least until he could confirm his suspicions...

Yeah I get that, I'm not disregarding the fact that Percival was likely close, but incomplete in his research into what was going on. As a 'brother' and your mentor though of centuries I feel like that bond and trust would be absolute already. I'm sure he would of talked to him post the zeppelin situation, but at the same time why throw in "I've got something to share with you, but I'm going to wait til later". The whole situation would of dealt a larger blow if it was more unexpected. As the player I already knew something was amiss and Percival was in the know, that foreshadowing alone would of been enough and "earned" in respect to the crash scene.

On Grayson's end, Lafayette's response to Grayson would be what I would of expected out of Izzy knowing the history they shared. It just seemed out of place that 1) Grayson was so standoffish on the topic. 2) Izzy was willing to throw away past history and cast Grayson as an outlier.

As The Order's 'Batman', Grayson does a solid job of not complicating anyone else, which I guess you can attest to his personal choice to go it alone and protect The Order and the people he cares for.
 

Elitist1945

Member
y9Uqd5W.gif


This is my favorite scene from the whole game.
 

Luke_Wal

Member
Man I agree with all the commentary on questioning what actually drove the hero to do some of those things

My first glimpse of this was when his mentor was killed and he decided to infiltrate white chapel. Rebel leader gives no evidence of anything and merely says "believe me" when explaining they had reasons. Dude has been in the order for centuries and had been fighting rebel scum up to this point, a point where rebel scum actually killed his mentor which is a rare event considering the black water

Instead of killing her on the spot, he agrees to follow her and the proceed to kill tons of guards that a second ago were on his side. Still no evidence proving anything

Then finds the vampires and then burns it all down without removing any proof of what he had found. The hero must have thought that the council would be as gullible as he when explaining this shit with no evidence whatsoever. At least TRY to bring something to the council before expecting them to believe him

Then again maybe he thought they'd believe him considering his long tenure as a part of the order. But they don't then, and they don't when he eventually does infiltrate Hastings residence. Including the girl who he was mentoring and seemed to have a romantic relationship. The woman they spend the earlier half of the game showing good rapport and General trust. A woman that would have died if it weren't for you a moment before. This woman not only leads the charge against you but vows to seek you out angrily when she learns you are still alive. A woman that heard you trying to explain that it wasn't as it seems and should trust you cuz you are a goddamn hero that has proved his worth multiple times

Yeah, not sure I got any of this at the end. Then tesla gets found out for helping you, only to be wounded and not killed for some reason since you get there way too late to save the day. Then the council leader lets you go knowing that you will probably become batman which will not only assist the rebels, but probably be the best rebel ever who knows the order like the back of his hand and is pretty much a one man army that kills wolves with pretty much only a knife and can kill the entire order if given the chance

No sir I don't get it

From what I got, he already knew something was going on with Perceval, who had been talking to some of the rebels. I feel like he had a lot of suspicions, and that was why he was willing to go along with it.

That being said: I just finished the game a few hours ago. I actually liked it a LOT. I understand why some people wouldn't, but it was my kind of game. Of course, it was also the most beautiful game I've ever seen. I can't wait to see what this studio does next.
 
So what's everyone's thoughts on what is happening in that post credits stinger?

It sounded like chaos was breaking out in London, what do you think is going on? Rebels? Vampires? More halfbreeds taking over?

I need to rewatch it as my memory is kind of fuzzy
 

Luke_Wal

Member
So what's everyone's thoughts on what is happening in that post credits stinger?

It sounded like chaos was breaking out in London, what do you think is going on? Rebels? Vampires? More halfbreeds taking over?

I need to rewatch it as my memory is kind of fuzzy

I felt like martial law had been declared to try to find Galahad? Any of your explanations make sense too though.

I really hope they leave London for the sequel, but I know they probably won't because of asset creation. I would love to see this game in either Industrial Revolution New York (they made a lot of references to the New World) or in India, with Lakshmi's crew fighting vampires and half-breeds to escape The Order. Of course, Igraine would lead a crew over there (Lafeyette probably included) to try to find Galahad.

Also, did anyone else feel like Lakshmi looked a lot like an Assassin from AC? Just something about her costume that screamed Ezio or Arno to me.
 
Finished the game last night. I love the story. It's so beautifully understated and subtle in many ways. Relationships simmer below the surface, the pacing is carefully managed and drawn out and they just trust the player to put things together. Even what had been a pet peeve, the over use of on screen prompts eventually pays off in that final moment where the game literally waits for you to pull the trigger as if saying "you know what to do".

I'm also of the mind that the mysterious man in the robe who was meeting Percival and helped Tesla save Grey was in fact King Arthur awoken from his slumber in Avalon in England's time of need to face the threat that has literally corrupted the Knights of the Round Table.
 

Brydo0

Neo Member
I'm also of the mind that the mysterious man in the robe who was meeting Percival and helped Tesla save Grey was in fact King Arthur awoken from his slumber in Avalon in England's time of need to face the threat that has literally corrupted the Knights of the Round Table.

I can get behind it being King Arthur, the way the they talked about him makes me believe that seeing him in the series isn't out of the question.

Sir Bors could be another potential name to throw in but it seemed like Lahkshmi was talking in past tense about him (also likely where she got her blackwater from).
 
Man I agree with all the commentary on questioning what actually drove the hero to do some of those things

My first glimpse of this was when his mentor was killed and he decided to infiltrate white chapel. Rebel leader gives no evidence of anything and merely says "believe me" when explaining they had reasons. Dude has been in the order for centuries and had been fighting rebel scum up to this point, a point where rebel scum actually killed his mentor which is a rare event considering the black water

Instead of killing her on the spot, he agrees to follow her and the proceed to kill tons of guards that a second ago were on his side. Still no evidence proving anything

Then finds the vampires and then burns it all down without removing any proof of what he had found. The hero must have thought that the council would be as gullible as he when explaining this shit with no evidence whatsoever. At least TRY to bring something to the council before expecting them to believe him

Then again maybe he thought they'd believe him considering his long tenure as a part of the order. But they don't then, and they don't when he eventually does infiltrate Hastings residence. Including the girl who he was mentoring and seemed to have a romantic relationship. The woman they spend the earlier half of the game showing good rapport and General trust. A woman that would have died if it weren't for you a moment before. This woman not only leads the charge against you but vows to seek you out angrily when she learns you are still alive. A woman that heard you trying to explain that it wasn't as it seems and should trust you cuz you are a goddamn hero that has proved his worth multiple times

Yeah, not sure I got any of this at the end. Then tesla gets found out for helping you, only to be wounded and not killed for some reason since you get there way too late to save the day. Then the council leader lets you go knowing that you will probably become batman which will not only assist the rebels, but probably be the best rebel ever who knows the order like the back of his hand and is pretty much a one man army that kills wolves with pretty much only a knife and can kill the entire order if given the chance

No sir I don't get it

The game doesn't mention the order fighting rebels for centuries. It mentions them fighting half breeds for centuries. The only reason the main members of the story didn't leave the situation up to the police is because they thought the rebels and the half breeds appearance were related.

I think he didn't speak up because during the trial because he wasn't sure who the traitor was and given the fact no one even asked him simply means that the situation was stacked against him and he would have been made out to look like he was even more off the rails.

Isa didn't seem like she was mad at Galahad (I always noticed it was odd how she seemed to sniff the air) I think she realized (smelled?) that the female rebel leader was there and her reaction about destroying the revolution was more about going after the woman she believed to lead Galahad astray. (if you didn't notice I believe the siblings are both werewolves).

And as for the end, Alistair didn't seem like he really wanted to kill tesla or Galahad until the fight really got going and he had to show himself. Allowing Galahad to leave, he wanted Galahad to become the bad guy so that the Order itself would continue to exist. And to that end, he sacrifices both Alistair and Galahad in that sense.

Yah that's one of a number of odd moments. When I saw that I immediately thought - Vampire!

Galahad though clearly sees it as a normal person who's been tortured by the evil Rebels and comments on it as such.

I figured ok so the rebels are into torture. Funny though this body looks pretty odd and the stake's a bit of a odd way to torture someone and burning tends to kill not gain information but hey Galahads the expert.

Then later you realize it was a Vampire. On a second play through I notice boxes from the docks are there too and realize the Rebels had a base there, got some Vampires and killed 'em and Hastings had sent in Lycan Eldar and Snr other Lycans to clear the place out and the Vampire was a foreshadowing. It also explains rebels info.

But... Galahad should have spotted it. That was weak character behaviour. One of a number of times RaD have Galahad behave out to of character or not know things his character should from the evidence.

Still at least it tied together more elements of the plot and it is nice to see a game trust you can solve the plot from what you see with no lazy exposition. Pity they couldn't quite pull off marrying this to consistent character behaviour.

After playing through this today he mentions the body was burned and it seems as if he couldn't get much info from it. He thought it was part of the rebels torture it seems.
 
This game's ending was an utter failure.

It's Old Yeller and then cut to black.

And it really pissed me off cause I was genuinely loving the story up to that point. They finished it at the second act and then cut to black.

Utter failure in the narrative department, honestly. No questions answered, no arcs resolved, nothing.

WHAT THE HELL WERE YOU THINKING, RAD.

Didn't you wait for the post credit-scene?

Wasn't a fan of the ending either, but I seriously think they just ran out of budget and had to find a middle ground in where they could cut off the story to finish the game.

I don't understand the hatred of the ending. Felt bold and complicated and executed with the same restraint they used through the whole game. It's obvious to me it ended exactly the way they intended. So much of what they did in both the story and the gameplay literally builds to that final moment.

Lucan the Lycan. It was so obvious all along haha. And Lord Hastings with his Count Dracula outfit kinda gave that away too early on.

Here's the thing: their betrayal wasn't a twist. It was obvious there is a bad actor inside The Order, and those two present as suspicious characters from the start. Galahad may have been shocked, but we the players are not supposed to be.

The actual twist in the story is that while you probably thought you were playing a game about Galahad exposing the corruption in The Order and clearing his name, in the end it turns out you were really playing a game about how Galahad became an outlaw.
 

Protome

Member
I'm also of the mind that the mysterious man in the robe who was meeting Percival and helped Tesla save Grey was in fact King Arthur awoken from his slumber in Avalon in England's time of need to face the threat that has literally corrupted the Knights of the Round Table.
Is there any doubt of this? Subtlety is not something RAD displays at any point in the game. He may as well have been walking around with a crown on, a sword with "Excalibur" written on the side and carrying a sign saying "Hi, I'm Arthur"

Here's the thing: their betrayal wasn't a twist. It was obvious there is a bad actor inside The Order, and those two present as suspicious characters from the start. Galahad may have been shocked, but we the players are not supposed to be.

The actual twist in the story is that while you probably thought you were playing a game about Galahad exposing the corruption in The Order and clearing his name, in the end it turns out you were really playing a game about how Galahad became an outlaw.


Im not sure I've ever seen someone describe not finishing the story as a story twist before.
 

EGM1966

Member
BTW not sure mentioned elsewhere and it's only a small detail but in opening and revisit Galahad seems to aging no? His hair is grey and he looks more haggard. Then he gets black water from Telsa.

So I'm guessing they have to regularly ingest blackater to remain youthful. The death sentance I presume was therefore removal of blackater vs The Order actually executing him. They simply lock him away (with bit of torture on the side) and wait for him to die from lack of blackwater.

Or am I remembering the character model changes wrong?
 
BTW not sure mentioned elsewhere and it's only a small detail but in opening and revisit Galahad seems to aging no? His hair is grey and he looks more haggard. Then he gets black water from Telsa.

So I'm guessing they have to regularly ingest blackater to remain youthful. The death sentance I presume was therefore removal of blackater vs The Order actually executing him. They simply lock him away (with bit of torture on the side) and wait for him to die from lack of blackwater.

Or am I remembering the character model changes wrong?

After starting the replay I think you're right, maybe that is how they end up executing a Knight. I haven't got to the part where Tesla pulls him out of the water, gonna pay attention when that happens.
 
Yeah, I believe they sentence him to "death" but they never explicitly say anything about executing him and the Chancellor taking his blackwater implied to me they were simply going to let his body fail. Prolonged use of black water could conceivably result in an accelerated aging process as you withdraw from it. Could also explain why it took him so long to recover after being fished out of the water.
 
So, what's the relationship between the Lycans and vampires? I assumed they were age-old enemies, but Lucan and Hastings were working together. Is it perhaps an agreement between the two species to let the werewolves have Britain (and its colonies), while the vampires seize America? And are we to assume that the Lord Chancellor knew about Hastings?
 
So, what's the relationship between the Lycans and vampires? I assumed they were age-old enemies, but Lucan and Hastings were working together. Is it perhaps an agreement between the two species to let the werewolves have Britain (and its colonies), while the vampires seize America? And are we to assume that the Lord Chancellor knew about Hastings?

It is mentioned that the cooperation is new, that Hastings has enlisted the Lycans to be his muscle in London and it is implied by Lakshmi that their alliance is a direct response to the advances in technology tipping the scales in favor of humanity for the first time.
 
It is mentioned that the cooperation is new, that Hastings has enlisted the Lycans to be his muscle in London and it is implied by Lakshmi that their alliance is a direct response to the advances in technology tipping the scales in favor of humanity for the first time.

Lakshmi says that the half breeds are consolidating their power and that the Vampires are using the Lycans as protection. She also implies I believe that the Vampire diseas is spreading through the Order.

Here she tries to tell him that the disease is spreading in his circle, but he cuts her off

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dzPkPINhxKA
 
Finished it this weekend and I like what I got.

The plot wasn't that innovative, but hell I've read a lot of books, saw a lot of movies and played a lot of games with worse stories.

Most of the so-called plot holes mentioned here didn't bother me much.
I also love how nothing is thoroughly explained, I cringe every time I play, read or watch something where they force dialog to explain the world and setting to you. The world is there, just roll with it.

The acting was top notch and I found the characters very believable.
As mentioned before in this thread all actions are in a way logically explained.

Fighting the rebels is clearly not the main focus of the Order. Gallahad and his team are reprimanded several times for their involvement in the rebel outbreaks. In the first encountered they are instructed to minimalise casualties as they are still citizens, later the grand master is appalled by the fact that they killed too many rebels instead of capturing them. Gallahad had his reasons of course, at that point het thought they were in league with their sworn enemies and after the life of Lord Hastings.

Gallahad feels something is off within the order from the beginning. He and Percival talk about how the order isn't what it used to be. Then he sees Percival talking with the Old man, Percival mentiones there's more going on on the airship and he sees Percival trying to reason with the suicide rebel before his death.

In grief and following the second attempt on the life of Lord Hastings he goes ballistic, but in the back of his mind he knows something is seriously off in this whole situation. He goes looking for answers, he needs closure. And then he meets Lakshmi, a queen herself who offers him the key to unravel this mystery. He doesn't trust her as is apparent during their excursion to the shipyard. But the proof is overwhelming.

He can't trust his own order any more and does not want to endanger his love, who he almost lost mere days before, and his young colleague, who doesn't have any weight in the order yet. So he attempts to get the aid of the only man with enough enfluence: Sir Lucan. Lucan already gave them permision to go against the Grand Masters wishes before, so he seemed like a good bet.

Then everything goes to hell, he is stabbed in the back and knows it's over for him. The corruption is too far spread and he stands alone. The justice system in those days also wouldn't be what it is today, so he knows he's properly fucked. His trial is a farce, and Sir Lucan defending him at the beginning of the trial undermines any point he can try to make. He has given up at that point.

After his escape he's in debt to the rebels, not to mention Nicola, who as a mere human risked his life to save him. So it's logical he wants to repay the favor.

Percival tried to protect his companions and the order,
Jealosy led Issy to lose her trust in Gallahad, on top of that it was him against her brother.
Lafayet keeps faith in Gallahad but knows the time isn't ripe for action.
The grand Master feels everything is going to shit, but is old and tired and most of all acts out of love for his adopted child.
etc...

Also the world was amazing.
I work in a museum for the History of Sciences, and I loved how correct Tesla's lab looked. I loved the war of currents mentioned etc...

I hope a sequel is already in development and I really hope this sells well enough to get it on the market.
I really don't get the overly negative reviews at all. This gen is so bitter and harsh.
 

Protome

Member
Jealosy led Issy to lose her trust in Gallahad, on top of that it was him against her brother.

This is the one thing done with a character in this game that annoyed the hell out of me. Issy started off as such a great character and then gets completely destroyed and turned into a generic jilted lover midway through.

Everything else done with characters I really enjoyed, although I felt things like Lucan's death were handled very poorly and needed a bit more setup to make it more morally grey like the rest of the game. As it was Lucan was just straight up evil then at the end "but actually Lycans are kinda alright people, please believe me."
 

Ishan

Junior Member
btw everyone making a point out of the queen/royalty not taking an active role in the plot should be aware that RAD were asked the question of the involvement of royalty and they said getting them involved had many many legal/ other concerns .... so dont make that out to be a plot point. just like reflections were a technical issue involving the British monarchy in a non completely fictional way heavily has other issues .
 

Betty

Banned
This is the one thing done with a character in this game that annoyed the hell out of me. Issy started off as such a great character and then gets completely destroyed and turned into a generic jilted lover midway through.

Yeah that was immensely disappointing to see, watching her let petty jealously cloud her decisions was eye rollingly bad.
 
This is the one thing done with a character in this game that annoyed the hell out of me. Issy started off as such a great character and then gets completely destroyed and turned into a generic jilted lover midway through.

It's especially funny that it all happens in like a soap opera way where she appears at inopportune times so it seems like he's shacked up with another woman.
 

WITHE1982

Member
One thing that's sort of been bugging me for a while. I'm sure everyone's notices the scars on izi's neck by now. They are clearly scratch marks most likely caused by a half-breed.


We know that both Isabeau and Lucan were adopted by the lord chancellor at a young age and that an infant Lucan was spared after his half-breed family were killed by the hand of the chancellor himself.

My point is that I find it had to believe that Izi is completely unaware that her adoptive brother, whom she was raised alongside, was a Lycan. Could the scars have been caused by Lucan himself at a young age? If so then Izi could be more involved/guilty then we are lead to believe. At the minute it's really just pure speculation and the scars could have been caused by anything... maybe a garden rake fell on her as a child or something.

Could set up an interesting plot twist in the sequel.
 
I dont understand while at his trial or getting arrested he didnt scream out that old guy was a vampire?

He was just silent!

He likely would've thought it would be a waste of breath. He doesn't seem to have had any concrete proof (and I'm not sure if there's a way to expose whether someone is a vampire or not in that universe).
 

R_Deckard

Member
y9Uqd5W.gif


This is my favorite scene from the whole game.

It was up there, the music, emotion from Galahad becoming more "human" as the game goes on. This scene was at the same level of emotion I got from TLOU start..easily.

But the Court scene was also very well done, as was the ending which I loved and I am not sure why many tainted it (aside the lack of control and the waste of Lycans).

This game HAS to have a Sequel and more, for a first game in an IP to be compared so much to other great games that took developers multiple iterations to get too is a real example of how good it is. Raising the bar in storytelling and acting so that you pick fault in it like Movie.

On my 3rd playthrough at moment, love the game!
 
One thing that's sort of been bugging me for a while. I'm sure everyone's notices the scars on izi's neck by now. They are clearly scratch marks most likely caused by a half-breed.



We know that both Isabeau and Lucan were adopted by the lord chancellor at a young age and that an infant Lucan was spared after his half-breed family were killed by the hand of the chancellor himself.

My point is that I find it had to believe that Izi is completely unaware that her adoptive brother, whom she was raised alongside, was a Lycan. Could the scars have been caused by Lucan himself at a young age? If so then Izi could be more involved/guilty then we are lead to believe. At the minute it's really just pure speculation and the scars could have been caused by anything... maybe a garden rake fell on her as a child or something.

Could set up an interesting plot twist in the sequel.

Yes, I noticed them too and assumed they were from a half-breed. Could make sense that it's from her youth, as I would assume Blackwater heals all scars, so it can't be from adulthood. How do people turn into werewolves in mythology - it's just from surviving an attack isn't it, so a scratch would be enough? Could be a twist for the sequel.

I dont understand while at his trial or getting arrested he didnt scream out that old guy was a vampire?

He was just silent!

As has been discussed previous in this topic, what's the point in contesting the charges when at least two of the most senior members of the Order are double agents, and he has no idea how far the corruption goes?
 

WITHE1982

Member
I dont understand while at his trial or getting arrested he didnt scream out that old guy was a vampire?

He was just silent!

I think you could see in his eyes he was lost. He knew there was a conspiracy but he had no idea how deep it really went.

He knew both Lucan and Lord Hastings were involved and perhaps countless others but I think in order to protect his friends he couldn't afford to just shout out his accusations or he'd risk the ones he cared about being hurt or used against him. For all he knew the entire Order could have been corrupted.

It's like being stuck in a room with 20 people knowing 19 of them are Lycans. You couldn't just cry out "There's werewolves here!" as that would result in yourself and the only other human being killed.

He chose to bear the burden himself as Sir Previval had done before him.


Yes, I noticed them too and assumed they were from a half-breed. Could make sense that it's from her youth, as I would assume Blackwater heals all scars, so it can't be from adulthood. How do people turn into werewolves in mythology - it's just from surviving an attack isn't it, so a scratch would be enough? Could be a twist for the sequel.

Glad I wasn't the only one. They just seemed to be a bit too obvious to be merely nothing.

If we're going by the American Werewolf In London rules then just simply surviving an attack whether bitten or scratched is enough to turn someone.

IMO Izi's gotta be a bad guy, I mean have you heard her deep nostril breathing? She's just a blatant Darth Vader rip-off.
 
I think RAD is going after the scorned woman plot line with Igraine. They make mentions about her and Galahad in the past were trying to get married at some point. I personally thought Igraine was the best and most interesting character in the game. Playing both the hunter and the hunted in a sequel would be interesting.

The main thing I hated about the ending is the leader guy, (who's name were never told) was basically going to sacrifice you to keep his sons secret. Yet and still you follow his new plan to keep this secret safe but hello Galahad, they tried to kill you! The game should've ended with you going on the run cause you killed the old fuck. Not because he gives you another order and you follow it like a damn fool. Also wasn't the point of the round table was so That all men would be equal and have a fair say? But in this game they got a leader, who served win Arthur yet we have no name to listen to. Not to mention a council overseeing the order.
 
This might just be me, but I found it distracting how heavily Izi was breathing through her nose in all the scenes after Galahad goes rogue. I know they were trying to convey her rage but it sounds like she's having a fucking asthma attack. All you need is a little nose whistle to make the scene hilarious, someone should get on that.
 
Just finished the game on hard and I can't say I enjoyed it all that much. It was competent at best in almost every department.

The TPS gameplay was as basic as it could possibly be and it was far too easy. The game took control away from the player far too often as well. The forced walking moments were unbelievably irritating.

Considering Ready at Dawn wanted to push story at the forefront it's a shame that the plot is so damn dull. The characters are incredibly one-dimensional, the plot is horribly predictable and it's absolutely filled with cliches like, the suave ladies man Frenchmen. Also, Nikola Tesla being introduced made me groan out loud as it was so cringe worthy. Plus, the ending was absolute garbage. It implies a sequel but the game didn't earn the right to end on a cliff-hanger. I couldn't care less what happens to Galahad or anyone else involved.

However, on the plus side I actually enjoyed the devs take on some of the QTE's . The game is also undoubtedly a marvel to look at but it's a shame they insist on those damn black bars that obstruct view during gameplay and add literally nothing to the game.

The game is mediocre in my eyes and I want to hate it more than I actually do but nevertheless, it had some good moments and a sequel has potential if Ready at Dawn are ready to make some changes to their gaming values.
 

Brydo0

Neo Member
One thing that's sort of been bugging me for a while. I'm sure everyone's notices the scars on izi's neck by now. They are clearly scratch marks most likely caused by a half-breed.

I haven't gone back to check but was it visible pre-hospital? I accounted it to her being attacked by the Elder but I may not have noticed beforehand.
 

semiconscious

Gold Member
Jealosy led Issy to lose her trust in Gallahad, on top of that it was him against her brother...

great post, man :) ...

afa the above, it wasn't just 'him against her brother' - it was him against, literally, 'the order' of things. it becomes apparent that issy's someone that lives in a simplistic, black & white, 'good vs evil' world. within that world, she's likable, dependable, effective, even sweet. but she needs that world, her sense of who she is is tied to it, & she's obviously threatened by anything that might shatter it...
 
Top Bottom