Not true actually. A few modders did their mods as some kind of job application to Bethesda.
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Skyrim Workshop Now Supports Paid Mods
- Thread starter Sendou
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No. But that's why they can charge for it outside of Steam. They can make the Steam version free. There's nothing stopping them (from the quick glance at the ToS) that stops them from doing that.
Orochinagis
Member
Didnt making profit is like living under the developer works and they could like sue Valve for allowing this?
Genuine question: How is this different than developers who put out applications/games on Windows/OSX/iOS. Other than operating system developers, everything is built on the foundation of another product. Should all developers be shackled to 1/4th of the profits of their work because it was built on existing software?
You're really a thick one, aren't you? Yeah I imagine they did. They also created the game from ground-up. That's the difference between the game and mods to the said game.
I don't think 25% is enough but like Salsa said it's better than nothing.
But it is nothing compared to the amount of content they use that wasn't created by them but by Bethesda instead.
This is going to be one hell of a conundrum due to the very nature of Skyrim's stability in conjunction with mods. People jump to conclusions all the time, assume that a specific mod is causing problems in their Skyrim install, and make angry comments about it on the mod page, when in fact a myriad of different factors unrelated to the mod or completely beyond the mod author's control is causing the problems.
They're not fixing anything, sure the community patches exist , but lets not pretend the game is perfectly playable as sold.
Skyrim would still exist without modders , these mods wouldn't exist without Skyrim. Content creators should be fucking thankful that bethesda is letting them make anything off teh back of their work.
Explain.
This isn't remotely the same.
These are modifications using the assets / properties / licences of someone else who made the game - buying a game has never made this legally a thing you can do. Similarly if you make a mod using someone else's paid mod, you have to add them as a contributor, for which it can be decided on the split. On top of that, Valve are then going to have to deal with the upkeep / fees associated with the service - with no ad revenue or payment to them outside of the 30% they get for the game purchase (industry standard) to support that.
Both Valve and Bethesda, naturally intend to make a profit, but it isn't clear how big this profit share is after the costs. Valve's games operate under a 50-50 split between them and the creator of the content. I'd guess here is is 25% Valve, 50% Bethesda, 25% modder(s). I don't really understand the costs associated with all this per company, to determine if this is reasonable - eg Bethesda may end up having to pay royalties to a third party for assets used / licenced stuff etc. 50-50 split was something that seemed fine to me, my initial reaction to 75% was the confusion till giving it some thought. It still seems steep, but without understanding that cost breakdown, it's hard to come to a good conclusion on how reasonable it is.
SneakyStephan
Banned
As always valve comes up with a new idea and other publishers and devs are going to run it into the ground.
dota workshop share was their way of having the community fund their f2p game for them with hats/skins (players benifit with a true FREE to play game with no inconveniences, valve wins with revenue from hats, hat makers get their share)
Mods however are not lumped in with the skins and are not monetised.
Now skyrim turns mods into a paid thing in a full priced retail game.
Ofc now you can't call out skyrim devs for taking the consumer's money without doing anything, because hey the modders get a (pityful) cut of the money for their hard work! Why wouldn't you want to support the modders, wow so entitled yada yada etc etc.
The 25 percent cut marketing is just a trojan horse
In the end what bethesda are doing is turning mods into microtransactions and DLC.
Expect their next game to only allow you to inject mods through the workshop (or a proprietary method of their own), effectively creating a walled garden that controls modding and their distribution.
People are now paying bethesda money for mods, they are not entitled to a single cent of that money, their game is not a free framework or marketplace to sell content around. pc gaming has completely gone off the deep end.
Next other publishers and devs will adopt the idea and further run the concept of modding into the ground.
In a few years we'll have lawsuits being made and cease and desist orders being issued over people adapting mods (e.g cs_surf or wc3 mod within the original counter strike mod for half life) due to revenue share conflict of interest.
It's pretty shitty to see gaming move even further towards noone doing anything for the love out of a hobby anymore.
dota workshop share was their way of having the community fund their f2p game for them with hats/skins (players benifit with a true FREE to play game with no inconveniences, valve wins with revenue from hats, hat makers get their share)
Mods however are not lumped in with the skins and are not monetised.
Now skyrim turns mods into a paid thing in a full priced retail game.
Ofc now you can't call out skyrim devs for taking the consumer's money without doing anything, because hey the modders get a (pityful) cut of the money for their hard work! Why wouldn't you want to support the modders, wow so entitled yada yada etc etc.
The 25 percent cut marketing is just a trojan horse
In the end what bethesda are doing is turning mods into microtransactions and DLC.
Expect their next game to only allow you to inject mods through the workshop (or a proprietary method of their own), effectively creating a walled garden that controls modding and their distribution.
People are now paying bethesda money for mods, they are not entitled to a single cent of that money, their game is not a free framework or marketplace to sell content around. pc gaming has completely gone off the deep end.
Next other publishers and devs will adopt the idea and further run the concept of modding into the ground.
In a few years we'll have lawsuits being made and cease and desist orders being issued over people adapting mods (e.g cs_surf or wc3 mod within the original counter strike mod for half life) due to revenue share conflict of interest.
It's pretty shitty to see gaming move even further towards noone doing anything for the love out of a hobby anymore.
I joined hl2vr specifically to gain a high profile in vr development communities. I rode my mod all the way to a career. It was a very calculated plan that worked to perfection.
I have never made this secret.
General Lee
Member
I definitely saw this coming, and I think it has the potential to bring about great quality mods. 25% cut on the other hand sounds like highway robbery.
ashecitism
Member
This is with the devs consent. Bethesda are the ones who gave the nod.
LOL they got 25% from steam? I really doubt it, but if they did that's horrible as well. edit: nvm misinterpreted the "i imagine they did"
Yea 25% is better than nothing. Lets lower the minimum wage, because hey it's better than nothing!
I cant pay my bills with passion and love.
The split between Valve and anyone that creates an original game is 30% to Valve and 70% to the game creator.
I feel like I'm getting trolled here.
TouchMyBox
Member
Nah bro, always doubt valve and always be proved wrong.
Says someone who probably never coded anything in their life.
There are so many libraries, engines and other assets that can be used to assist in making an app.
I've pretty much said outright in an interview that the only reasons I made DSfix were
- That I hate playing games with shitty IQ.
- That I have a huge ego and previously claimed (on GAF, incidentally) that resolution locking would be stupid and easily circumvented.
Interest rising to try and learn Skyrim modding. I mean I am trying to learn 3D modelling for games. So I could learn from this and maybe even get 2 by doing it.
All around interesting feature. I just think there is going to be a lot of people trying to make money on mods they didn't make. Also I am not sure what if you buy mod and it doesn't work after a week or so when the game gets update.
All around interesting feature. I just think there is going to be a lot of people trying to make money on mods they didn't make. Also I am not sure what if you buy mod and it doesn't work after a week or so when the game gets update.
Preach.
I already wrote and nearly posted some pretty expletive filled posts, so I really should stop reading this thread, but I just wanted to reiterate that especially after a not so good day of development it really is super disappointing to see such a massive "fuck you" to content creators. We still have yet to see how it pans out and there are some concerns regarding additional tools like SKSE and community sites like Skyrim Nexus, but this could really mean good things for the modding scene.
Sim Racing for example has had paid mods for years now and now the variety and quality has been great over there; you extremely well made paid content from professional alongside free content from enthusiasts and the community is thriving. Same thing for some flying simulators. Same thing for some source mods. This isn't an exactly new concept, but it's just making it to the mainstream with an organized structure and content delivery method.
And I won't pay for something I don't have a guarantee will continue to work with future game patches.
Bornstellar
Member
This is disgusting. Isoku and Chesko are putting up new versions of there popular mods on paid Steam, but not updating the nexus version so as to drive revenue. How many free, community driven tools did they use in the creation of their mods?
Holy crap Bethesda. You've killed it.
Holy crap Bethesda. You've killed it.
Reading and common sense is really fuckin hard guys.
Yes, Valve and Steam is now a dictatorship. They willforce your game to have paid mods!
ffs
SteveWinwood
Member
so don't then
I've pretty much said outright in an interview that the only reasons I made DSfix were
"Love for the community" never figured into it (though later I did implement some feature requests I never used), but it's 100% the truth
- That I hate playing games with shitty IQ.
- That I have a huge ego and previously claimed (on GAF, incidentally) that resolution locking would be stupid and easily circumvented.
You would think people would realize those who are trying to make their entire livelihood revolve around this stuff are probably incredibly passionate.
but the game developers are getting paid a cut of the mods too, so this system also guarantees they'll make sure that doesnt happ----
oh no wait! that part of this apparently sucks!
uhhhh fuck this!
Correct I have never coded in my life, but I know that development and uses of assets are not all in house and thus "fair game" to sell. They may belong to an 3rd party engine developer, outsourced artist etc. I'm sure there are countless other scenarios where this is true - all of whom will not simply allow reuse outside of agreed terms.
Have you never given thought to why mods have never been an thing you can legally sell? Circumventing that, is going to cost at some level, but there is no doubt a profit is also intended from all parties
-COOLIO-
The Everyman
yup
I think this could well facilitate large-scale projects that could wind up being very interesting...and that's the only benefit I'm seeing. There will be a lot of issues to sort through, and a lot of time has to pass until that sole benefit sees the light of day.
I don't think anyone would besmirch talented and professional individuals making quality mods for a game and receiving monetary reimbursement. The problem is that everyone else will try to take advantage of it. One possible solution would be a system like Greenlight, where only approved mod-creators could charge for their work. Simply opening the floodgates as Steam has means we're going to have a lot of problems to deal with, and a lot of people getting burned by chancers. It's a wonderful experiment, and as someone not invested in this scenario, I'm just gonna sit on the sidelines and eat popcorn.
I don't think anyone would besmirch talented and professional individuals making quality mods for a game and receiving monetary reimbursement. The problem is that everyone else will try to take advantage of it. One possible solution would be a system like Greenlight, where only approved mod-creators could charge for their work. Simply opening the floodgates as Steam has means we're going to have a lot of problems to deal with, and a lot of people getting burned by chancers. It's a wonderful experiment, and as someone not invested in this scenario, I'm just gonna sit on the sidelines and eat popcorn.
Being paid for my work gives me more incentive to keep my mod working with updates.
And you dont HAVE to buy my work.
Exactly, which is why I assume at some level Bethesda have to ensure support, and so do the modder if they commit people to purchasing - otherwise no one pays, and everything reverts back to being free or not existing.
There's probably nothing to worry about, and I can't really think of any real reasons why this shouldn't be allowed to happen. I'm just concerned that what other people think is reasonable is not necessarily what I think is reasonable. Before the change, there were no mods that I would be unwilling to download because they're priced too high for what I think they're worth. After the change, there will undoubtedly be at least a few mods that I would want but would not download because I don't think the price is worth it. From a selfish standpoint, the overall effect of this change would be negative.
It's not really a big deal, I just think the overall effect this will have is that I will download fewer mods overall, which could negatively affect the value the game has for me.
EDIT: On the other hand, allowing companies to profit from mods could mean better mod support in more games, which is definitely something I'm interested in, as long as the option for free mods still exists.
zombieshavebrains
I have not used cocaine
Making money from a mod is not more incentive because they have always had the means to generate funds through donations if they really wanted to. This is creating less of an incentive for people to try mods because the barrier for entry is .99-4.99 dollars.
Mandatory donations is never what modding was about. The argument towards consumers "You don't like it?! Don't buy it!" can be used on the modders too. "No one is asking you to use your free time to make content."
Nobody is stopping modders from putting their work available for free and then making a Patreon page.
I'm fine with developers getting paid, that's not my issue. But no dev studio is going to have time to test out their new patches with more than a small handful of mods.
SteveWinwood
Member
Chezzymann
Member
He's talking about all mods in general. Many mods aren't updated after a certain point as the developer doesn't want to keep up with patches anymore. When that happens, what you paid for essentially becomes useless.
Orochinagis
Member
Oh, I see i wonder what kind of paid mods will release after this announcement.
Probably more female models
hobblygobbly
Member
Never thought I'd live to see the day PC mods for games become part of a pirate commodity.
I think this is for future plans for Bethesda's games, wanting to monetise mods and take % cut from mods so like when Fallout 4 and future TES come out and their mods they can gain from it. Using Skyrim as a test bed to test this out instead of with a new game I think.
For example a headline such as "You have to pay for Fallout 4 mods", maybe not what you want exactly with a new release, but if you do it to Skyrim now, there'll be outrage and you can judge from a business point of view whether to go ahead so when it comes to Fallout 4 people are more desensitised to it if you go with it. This is just a "test" for the future.
That's what I think.
I think this is for future plans for Bethesda's games, wanting to monetise mods and take % cut from mods so like when Fallout 4 and future TES come out and their mods they can gain from it. Using Skyrim as a test bed to test this out instead of with a new game I think.
For example a headline such as "You have to pay for Fallout 4 mods", maybe not what you want exactly with a new release, but if you do it to Skyrim now, there'll be outrage and you can judge from a business point of view whether to go ahead so when it comes to Fallout 4 people are more desensitised to it if you go with it. This is just a "test" for the future.
That's what I think.
Valve subtracts their fees (eg. VAT in Europe) before cut calculations.
25% to creator is pretty low (this will be set by publisher per game, thought). Valve probably takes same cut as in games so ~30%. Bethesda then has ~45% cut of mods.
Can't see myself paying for mods. It's basically non-official DLC, without any support.
So let the free market take care of that.
Modding is over, period. Valve lost their last ace, and that's the end of their Steam hopes and dreams.
It's not hyperbole, it's not fanboy drivel. It is LITERALLY it for Steam. Valve has nothing left, nothing they can reveal tomorrow would fix the hole now created. There is no reason left for any one, hardcore or casual, to substantively invest in Steam. Except if they want to play HL3. Which will never come out at this point.
The age of Valve is done.
It's not hyperbole, it's not fanboy drivel. It is LITERALLY it for Steam. Valve has nothing left, nothing they can reveal tomorrow would fix the hole now created. There is no reason left for any one, hardcore or casual, to substantively invest in Steam. Except if they want to play HL3. Which will never come out at this point.
The age of Valve is done.
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