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[Salsa]

Making money from a mod is not more incentive because they have always had the means to generate funds through donations if they really wanted to. This is creating less of an incentive for people to try mods because the barrier for entry is .99-4.99 dollars.

Mandatory donations is never what modding was about. The argument towards consumers "You don't like it?! Don't buy it!" can be used on the modders too. "No one is asking you to use your free time to make content."

it is an option

I see lots of peolpe going on about "love and passion"

well, those who make gigantic fantastic mods and barely got money for them cause they made them out of "love and passion" will likely continue to do so?

and if they charge, guess what: they always would have prefered to pay some bills with it; and now they can.

 

[CecilRousso]

The 25 percent cut marketing is just a trojan horse
In the end what bethesda are doing is turning mods into microtransactions and DLC.

This. Very much this.

I will pay money when you're adding quality content to the game. I will not pay €2 for a new sword in the game, or €4 for slightly altered textures.

The problem with letting the market decide how much in app purchases are worth is that people are stupid, so very stupid. Proof of that is the F2P market.

 

[Yarbskoo]

Modding is over, period. Valve lost their last ace, and that's the end of their Steam hopes and dreams.

It's not hyperbole, it's not fanboy drivel. It is LITERALLY it for Steam. Valve has nothing left, nothing they can reveal tomorrow would fix the hole now created. There is no reason left for any one, hardcore or casual, to substantively invest in Steam. Except if they want to play HL3. Which will never come out at this point.

The age of Valve is done.

I don't know how much the rest of you know about modding culture (I'm an expert), but honor and shame are huge parts of it.

 

[Chezzymann]

So let the free market take care of that.

How will I know who to trust on updates and who to not (or will at least take forever to keep up with patches)? I feel like this will lead to a small amount of people being successful as they will be the ones that will build up trust with the community while most other people will have a hard time convincing others they can be trusted.

 

[shira]

Modding is over, period. Valve lost their last ace, and that's the end of their Steam hopes and dreams.

It's not hyperbole, it's not fanboy drivel. It is LITERALLY it for Steam. Valve has nothing left, nothing they can reveal tomorrow would fix the hole now created. There is no reason left for any one, hardcore or casual, to substantively invest in Steam. Except if they want to play HL3. Which will never come out at this point.

The age of Valve is done.

dark&dank times

 

[MJLord]

25% is pretty low to me but for the most part I'm on board. If this can bring some quality mods up then I'm all for it and happy to pay developers for their time in making it.

 

[Twilightzoney]

Well when it come to Sonic Generations modding there is ado much time to spend designing the layout and modeling everything. And for free as well. That's why most people port crappy stages. Not including rendering the global illumination and making all the physics. Which is why I haven't finished my custom stage and trying to find someone else to get help is hard, since one man doing the work of a professional team to do a level is nuts when you are doing it in you're spare time. Especially when you have school and work.

So I can understand people wanting to get something for their mods that they spend time testing over and over. But I don't think it will ruin the quality there will be really great mods and the cheap buck ones. So expect crappy mods and quality ones.

 

[Dolor]

Just a primer for some posters in this thread based on recent events...

Patreon still exists and can be used.

Donations still exist and can be given.

Mods can still be created and distributed for free.

Passionate people can still make mods.

Valve has given modders the option to charge for their work and customers the option to pay for that work. That is all this is - more options.

 

[SteveWinwood]

most of this shit is pay what you want and less than a dollar

card moneyz

 

[Alavard]

So let the free market take care of that.

Please explain how the 'free market' will allow me to predict which mod authors continue to support of their mods and which don't. Otherwise this is nothing but drivel.

 

[Slayven]

Can only speak for myself but I can put up with a lot of shit when it is free, but once the money starts changing hands the product got to be right and on point out the box

 

[Krejlooc]

How will I know who to trust on updates and who won't (or will at least take forever to keep up with patches)?

That applies to litetally every product you ever buy. caveat emptor.

You guys saying this will destroy modding are ludicrous. You guys already dont pay for my mod. You are not a lost sale to me. I honestly couldnt care less if you play my mod or not.

 

[TheSeks]

I don't know how much the rest of you know about modding culture (I'm an expert), but honor and shame are huge parts of it.

It’s not like it is on X-box where you can become successful by being an asshole. If you screw someone over on Steam, you bring shame to yourself, and the only way to get rid of that shame is repentance.What this means is the modding public, after hearing about this, is not going to want to mod for either system, nor will they mod any of AAA’s games. This is HUGE. You can laugh all you want, but publishers have alienated an entire market with this move. Valve and Bethesda, publicly apologize and cancel paid mods or you can kiss your business goodbye.

 

[Steeven]

I don't like this feature. PC gaming has been fine without charging for mods for two decades. I will never pay for any mod. The best mods are build with passion and published for free anyway.

 

[Juke Joint Jezebel]

So we get to treat those mods that are uploaded onto the workshop for a price as actual paid goods, and thus should come under the same scrutiny as any other paid for product, getting valve to supply a refund should be fun if any of these mods you purchase are broken, Here's hoping Valve has a quality assurance system in place!

I'll just stick to the free mods and ignore the paid content, thanks.

 

[McNum]

Oh this will be fun. This whole discussion about paid for mods turned so toxic in the The Sims communities that there pretty much was a blanket ban on discussing it on nearly every fan site except those specifically dedicated to that one topic for a while. And yes, the topic of mod piracy was rather big there as well. This is just the beginning.

Some cases to look forward to, collected from watching them happen in The Sims:

- Someone makes a free mod or tool that enables some new bit of the game to be moddable, and stipulates that all mods based on this mod must be free, such as with a GNU license, does he have any recourse in shutting down pay mods based on it?
- Same situation, reversed. A pay mod does something. Someone else has made a mod that does something very similar, but in a different way. Is this a conflict? If so, how does it resolve?
- The game gets updated, a pay mod stops working or outright crashes the game. Does the modder have an obligation to support the mod for the lifetime of the game? Will a user be able to demand a refund in this case? Will modders be required to render tech support?
- A paid modder intentionally breaks a mod in a "Screw you, I'm going home!" maneuver. Can the users get a refund due to deliberate sabotage?

Money getting involved makes modding so much more complicated, as money getting involved in nearly anything usually does. Frankly, if I pay for something, I expect lifetime support of the game and on demand tech support if the mod breaks. If a mod is free, then I don't care about that. But if you want to be a business, fine. Be a business. With all that entails. Will we see mods with a support hotline?

 

[ashecitism]

Nexus blog post: http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/news/12444/?

edit: wait a minute, this is from March, why did people link it now lol

Modding is over, period. Valve lost their last ace, and that's the end of their Steam hopes and dreams.

It's not hyperbole, it's not fanboy drivel. It is LITERALLY it for Steam. Valve has nothing left, nothing they can reveal tomorrow would fix the hole now created. There is no reason left for any one, hardcore or casual, to substantively invest in Steam. Except if they want to play HL3. Which will never come out at this point.

The age of Valve is done.

holy shit, haven't seen this forever

 

[MJLord]

I bet everyone here owns Garry's Mod.

 

[Durante]

I don't know how much the rest of you know about modding culture (I'm an expert), but honor and shame are huge parts of it.

I don't think you're a real expert. Otherwise you would know that PASSION and LOVE are huge parts of it.

 

[Sendou]

Please explain how the 'free market' will allow me to predict which mod authors continue to support of their mods and which don't. Otherwise this is nothing but drivel.

I have hard time seeing what kind of patches would Skyrim be getting at this point that would break mods.

 

[Nzyme32]

I agree supporting modders but not by paying them directly for mods, they should have a patreon page and there should be an option to support them (with custom amount of money and maybe even an option for monthly support).

Which is a great thing in this system. As an open market, people are free to decide what is worth paying for and what is not. Free mods will never disappear and always be a part of the competition between paid mods. If people have no confidence in paying, then the free mods win out, and Valve are forced to evolve their system to provide a system / monetisation that people will accept and get behind. I thing a patreon type system works really well over simple one off donations, but the stability of being paid a fixed amount could be what allows a modder to make a much bigger project that is regularly updated or expanding.

From my perspective, the good thing here is starting that dialogue and determining what will work and what people are happy with. I don't believe this will stop free content outside of the initial few months where everyone is experimenting, and understanding that what was free before is likely going to remain unpaid for (whether via nexus or othersites) still providing that content. New meaningful content has a chance of succeeding at a price if it is good enough.

 

[RulkezX]

That applies to litetally every product you ever buy. caveat emptor.

You guys saying this will destroy modding are ludicrous. You guys already dont pay for my mod. You are not a lost sale to me. I honestly couldnt care less if you play my mod or not.

Are you going to be willing to provide the level of service expected from paid content now ?

ie timely bug fixes , continued support , troubleshooting for customers etc ?

 

[Bornstellar]

So, Wet and Cold. It requires SKSE - are we going to see revenue sharing to the many people who've worked on SKSE? It also no doubt used TES5Edit in its creation. What about them?

 

[RedSwirl]

Wait, how does this compare to what the community builds for TF2 and DOTA 2?

 

[Sendou]

So, Wet and Cold. It requires SKSE - are we going to see revenue sharing to the many people who've worked on SKSE? It also no doubt used TES5Edit in its creation. What about them?

The answer to this question that seems to be baffling many can be found in the OP.

Wait, how does this compare to what the community builds for TF2 and DOTA 2?

This too. Breaks my heart when people don't read OP's I put love & passion to. I hope Evilore monetizes OP's and lets me buy some tissues from the money I get for the OP's I make.

 

[Chezzymann]

That applies to litetally every product you ever buy. caveat emptor.

You guys saying this will destroy modding are ludicrous. You guys already dont pay for my mod. You are not a lost sale to me. I honestly couldnt care less if you play my mod or not.

Modding is different as its not a professional community, just users making stuff in their free time for the most part. They aren't business that have to appeal to investors and make a profit each quarter.

And it seems that you can only get a full refund after one day. It would be different if you could get a full refund if they, say, don't update their mod to be compatible with the latest version of a game after a week or more. Or aren't addressing bug fixes properly.

 

[Pizza]

Eh, I'm not sure how I feel about this. Some mods break the game when they clash with others, and you normally discover this after installing said mod, when it breaks your game.


If Valve wants to do this right, for devs to make their games *much* more mod-friendly somehow, and make it clear roughly how many mods it will handle before falling apart. There should also be an easy way to test mod comparability before buying.


I like the idea of a big usermade market place, but idk. Devs only getting 25% of the price of the item seems ridiculous and I feel like the mods may be four times as expensive now. Like, if I made a mod that was worth charging for, I'd charge $5 tops. Probably $2 unless it was a pretty expansive thing. That means I'm probably getting a couple quarters for every nice person who spends money on my mod. I'd honestly would rather release it for free.

 

[Salsa]

I hope the first Skyrim paid mod is called "PASSION AND LOVE" and it's a fucking hundred bucks

 

[Nymerio]

The reactions are pretty much what I expected. I find it a sad state of affairs that what people take away from this is that modding is over and that it just means mods are going to be pirated. Developing stuff like this takes time and why shouldn't modders actually get something for the amount of time they invest? If anything the butthurt from the community would be something that may put people off modding.

Does no one stop to think what this could mean for the future of modding tools? I can imagine that more developers would be willing to make tools available or improve on the quality of their tools if they actually see some tangible returns for them. If anything this could benefit everyone.

 

[aajohnny]

Modding is over, period. Valve lost their last ace, and that's the end of their Steam hopes and dreams.

It's not hyperbole, it's not fanboy drivel. It is LITERALLY it for Steam. Valve has nothing left, nothing they can reveal tomorrow would fix the hole now created. There is no reason left for any one, hardcore or casual, to substantively invest in Steam. Except if they want to play HL3. Which will never come out at this point.

The age of Valve is done.

Oh please, do you need some tissues?

Why don't you wait and see what happens first until you start saying "IT'S ALL OVER IT'S ALL OVER".

Shows what kind of person you are that you hate the fact a modder can determine HIM/HERSELF whether or not they want to charge and make money for something they worked for. You want it to be free, you don't care what they did.

And this whole donate button thing is non-sense, you don't care about them (the creator) you care about yourself and just want to get everything for free. You wouldn't donate if you could and you know it. Now somebody can get paid IF they decide themselves to charge for it. This will only make modders (if they decide to charge) work harder and make sure their product works and is updated, otherwise they lose reputation and money... Modders aren't stupid, they know that if they charge for mods they have a lot more on their hands then just casually making a free mod.

People are over-reacting, wait to see what happens instead of saying that "It's over". Yeah some people will abuse it, but then don't buy it... I'm sure Nexus will stick around too...

 

[Alavard]

I have hard time seeing what kind of patches would Skyrim be getting at this point that would break mods.

I think it's pretty damn likely that if Valve continues with this program, it will be expanded to games that are still releasing patches and content. Let's protect consumers before they start being burned, not after.

 

[Nzyme32]

Nexus blog post: http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/news/12444/?

Really good read, although it is from March so not sure how relevant it is, or what their position is

 

[ezekial45]

Just a primer for some posters in this thread based on recent events...

Patreon still exists and can be used.

Donations still exist and can be given.

Mods can still be created and distributed for free.

Passionate people can still make mods.

Valve has given modders the option to charge for their work and customers the option to pay for that work. That is all this is - more options.

I think the primary issue that many people have is how things will evolve from here. The general worry that most people have is that this will eventually become the only real avenue to download mods for these games, and that Bethesda/Valve will prevent them to do so from other places by making them directly integrated from Steam Workshop.

I'm sure Nexus will still be alive and well, and the mod managers for these game will continue to grow and evolve, but the worry that a lot of people will have is that the modders will be motivated by money and create exclusively for Steam.

 

[Juniez]

I don't know how much the rest of you know about modding culture (I'm an expert), but honor and shame are huge parts of it.

actually it's about game longetivity and consumer loyalty and something som

 

[TheSeks]

Oh please, do you need some tissues?

Why don't you wait and see what happens first until you start saying "IT'S ALL OVER IT'S ALL OVER".

Shows what kind of person you are that you hate the fact a modder can determine HIM/HERSELF whether or not they want to charge and make money for something they worked for. You want it to be free, you don't care what they did.

And this whole donate button thing is non-sense, you don't care about them (the creator) you care about yourself and just want to get everything for free. You wouldn't donate if you could and you know it. Now somebody can get paid IF they decide themselves to charge for it. This will only make modders (if they decide to charge) work harder and make sure their product works and is updated, otherwise they lose reputation and money... Modders aren't stupid, they know that if they charge for mods they have a lot more on their hands then just casually making a free mod.

People are over-reacting, wait to see what happens instead of saying that "It's over". Yeah some people will abuse it, but then don't buy it... I'm sure Nexus will stick around too...

Spoiler

He's joking

.

WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOSH.

 

[Netherscourge]

Would Bethesda have the legal power to force a modder to ONLY use the Steam Workshop to sell their mods for games like Skyrim? (assuming the modder wanted to sell the mod for money)

Not that they would. Just a hypothetical question.

 

[Juke Joint Jezebel]

Does no one stop to think what this could mean for the future of modding tools? I can imagine that more developers would be willing to make tools available or improve on the quality of their tools if they actually see some tangible returns for them. If anything this could benefit everyone.

Let's just hope that mod content creators can take the scrutiny and criticism and pressure that comes from offering a product that costs money, a certain level of quality will be expected from both the content creator, and Valve when they upload this paid content to their shop.

 

[zombieshavebrains]

I hope the first Skyrim paid mod is called "PASSION AND LOVE" and it's a fucking hundred bucks

Well you can get the bundle of "Passion and love" for 28.68.

 

[aliengmr]

On the fence about this. I'll give it a year or so before I decide. I would have been more comfortable with donations to start.

I get that content creators deserve compensation at some level, but I have concerns over unforeseen consequences.

 

[crazyrabbits]

Oh this will be fun. This whole discussion about paid for mods turned so toxic in the The Sims communities that there pretty much was a blanket ban on discussing it on nearly every fan site except those specifically dedicated to that one topic for a while. And yes, the topic of mod piracy was rather big there as well. This is just the beginning.

Some cases to look forward to, collected from watching them happen in The Sims:

- Someone makes a free mod or tool that enables some new bit of the game to be moddable, and stipulates that all mods based on this mod must be free, such as with a GNU license, does he have any recourse in shutting down pay mods based on it?
- Same situation, reversed. A pay mod does something. Someone else has made a mod that does something very similar, but in a different way. Is this a conflict? If so, how does it resolve?
- The game gets updated, a pay mod stops working or outright crashes the game. Does the modder have an obligation to support the mod for the lifetime of the game? Will a user be able to demand a refund in this case? Will modders be required to render tech support?
- A paid modder intentionally breaks a mod in a "Screw you, I'm going home!" maneuver. Can the users get a refund due to deliberate sabotage?

Money getting involved makes modding so much more complicated, as money getting involved in nearly anything usually does. Frankly, if I pay for something, I expect lifetime support of the game and on demand tech support if the mod breaks. If a mod is free, then I don't care about that. But if you want to be a business, fine. Be a business. With all that entails. Will we see mods with a support hotline?

That's what I want to know too. Given how half-assed their customer service division is (a problem they know about and have acknowledged in the past), this is just an added level of complexity on top of a corporation that's already stretched to the breaking point. I don't think Valve thought this through at all.

What happens if you buy a mod, it works for a week and then it breaks because the game is patched, and the creator doesn't feel any need to update it again? This goes for all games, not just Skyrim. Do we get a refund then?

What about the usage of trademarked works like the Witcher series or Mount & Blade? Are Bethesda/Valve fine with such copyright usages or are they just going to turn a blind eye until another rights-holder sues them?

What about quality control? Why would anyone want to pay $6 for a companion or mod when they can already get the same quality of content (or better) on free sites? What's the incentive?

 

[SmoothRunningGun]

I love the idea. People should be paid for their work. 25% is brutal cut.

 

[Krejlooc]

Are you going to be willing to provide the level of service expected from paid content now ?

ie timely bug fixes , continued support , troubleshooting for customers etc ?

Being paid for my work gives me more incentive to keep my mod working with updates.

And you dont HAVE to buy my work.

.

 

[Zimbardo]

mods were always free, and should remain free, imo ...so how is paying for them now a good thing?

it'll be pretty much like paying for DLC now ...and everyone will likely want to charge for their work, rather than just doing it for fun.

i don't see how this is good for the PC community.

 

[Alavard]

Oh please, do you need some tissues?

Why don't you wait and see what happens first until you start saying "IT'S ALL OVER IT'S ALL OVER".

Shows what kind of person you are that you hate the fact a modder can determine HIM/HERSELF whether or not they want to charge and make money for something they worked for. You want it to be free, you don't care what they did.

And this whole donate button thing is non-sense, you don't care about them (the creator) you care about yourself and just want to get everything for free. You wouldn't donate if you could and you know it. Now somebody can get paid IF they decide themselves to charge for it. This will only make modders (if they decide to charge) work harder and make sure their product works and is updated, otherwise they lose reputation and money... Modders aren't stupid, they know that if they charge for mods they have a lot more on their hands then just casually making a free mod.

People are over-reacting, wait to see what happens instead of saying that "It's over". Yeah some people will abuse it, but then don't buy it... I'm sure Nexus will stick around too...

You do... realize that Durante is a modder right?

 

[Orayn]

What about the usage of trademarked works like the Witcher series or Mount & Blade? Are Bethesda/Valve fine with such copyright usages or are they just going to turn a blind eye until another rights-holder sues them?

DMCA means Valve doesn't get sued as long as they take down the content and deal with the person who uploaded it when they get a complaint from the copyright holder.

 

[Leafhopper]

Modding is over, period. Valve lost their last ace, and that's the end of their Steam hopes and dreams.

It's not hyperbole, it's not fanboy drivel. It is LITERALLY it for Steam. Valve has nothing left, nothing they can reveal tomorrow would fix the hole now created. There is no reason left for any one, hardcore or casual, to substantively invest in Steam. Except if they want to play HL3. Which will never come out at this point.

The age of Valve is done.

lol.

 

[Krejlooc]

Modding is different as its not a professional community

Are you being paid for your mod? Then it is no different.

 

[Salsa]

Oh please, do you need some tissues?

Why don't you wait and see what happens first until you start saying "IT'S ALL OVER IT'S ALL OVER".

Shows what kind of person you are that you hate the fact a modder can determine HIM/HERSELF whether or not they want to charge and make money for something they worked for. You want it to be free, you don't care what they did.

 

[Juke Joint Jezebel]

What happens if you buy a mod, it works for a week and then it breaks because the game is patched, and the creator doesn't feel any need to update it again? This goes for all games, not just Skyrim. Do we get a refund then?

Great point. It'd be a broken product, and not fit for purpose.

 

[Yarbskoo]

I don't think you're a real expert. Otherwise you would know that PASSION and LOVE are huge parts of it.

Guess I can kiss my modding culture expert card goodbye.