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[Highway Star]

The problem I see with DF's tests is that they're done from the chase cam view. I wouldn't play this or any racing game from that view point. It would be nice to see some test from different views. I bet cockpit view hits 60 FPS most of the time.

 

[Korezo]

The problem I see with DF's tests is that they're done from the chase cam view. I wouldn't play this or any racing game from that view point. It would be nice to see some test from different views. I bet cockpit view hits 60 FPS most of the time.

I think cockpit view is more demanding.

 

[Cuyejo]

No....not even close. Not in poly count, not in track detail, not in texture detail, not in trackside detail.

Polyphony will absolutely destroy this game and anything Forza offers this gen in overall graphics, but especially lighting wise, with whatever they are cooking for the PS4.

 

[Diablohead]

The problem I see with DF's tests is that they're done from the chase cam view. I wouldn't play this or any racing game from that view point. It would be nice to see some test from different views. I bet cockpit view hits 60 FPS most of the time.

That IMO will depend on how many polys are visible in that view over external, early forza 3 builds had 30fps in cockpits until release when they sorted it out.

 

[TheMAK]

Thread went down the shitter pretty quickly in the last pages... time to bail... keep on trolling folks...

 

[ss_lemonade]

Cars and tracks are of comparable quality to Pcars/Forza5, so the point stands.

About GT tracks, one thing that always stood out for me visually was how water was not animated. I know, you barely would see the waterside while racing, but it was something I always noticed.

This is with GT5 though, but is it the same with GT6?

 

[funkystudent]

Welp. Any game with screen tearing is a automatic no buy from me.

A shame as I was interested in the game. You would think V sync would be demanded by the console makers at this stage. 99% of the games have no tearing now and the ones that do are technical train wrecks.

 

[Head.spawn]

Did my own capture last night of some racing in the wet with 20 AI cars. My main discovery is that racing in the wet is really hard.

I don't know how to get a fps counter on your xbone capture either, if someone knows how to do that I would appreciate knowing.

https://youtu.be/22F8PxujGTo

Is that just the video or is there literally screen tearing throughout?

 

[Jakartalado]

Very happy to see this game running on my laptop. Sadly, I can only play races in dry conditions, can't play at 20 fps in raining conditions. Feels pretty bad. But on medium at 720p and dry conditions I get 30 fps fixed while in the middle of the chaos, and 40-45 frames while leading the race.

Nice job, Slighty Mad.

Running on Geforce 840M - 2 Gb, and i5 2.8 Ghz, 8 Gb ram

 

[Noobcraft]

Is that just the video or is there literally screen tearing throughout?

Screen tearing is pretty frequent (more so in the Xbox version) in both console versions, and yeah when he hits the corkscrew there is crazy screentearing.

 

[le-seb]

I think cockpit view is more demanding.

Yeah, probably.
Even if the FOV is reduced in cockpit view, the game will still have to render most of the action, and it'll also need to render the visible cockpit and instruments.

 

[Sipheren]

Is that just the video or is there literally screen tearing throughout?

Its exactly as it was on the system, straight capture, I only upscaled it to 1080P from 720P (capture card only does 60FPS @ 720P).

I have to say I am pretty lucky, I didn't notice any tearing in the game or in the video, runs great for me, so I can enjoy it

 

[Blizzard]

Fairly sure the 200k figure is definitely not in game. The Xbox One can't handle that for Forza's ingame models (which are around 60-100k IIRC), so there's no way the PS3 hardware can, especially with up to 16 cars on screen.

Also, your figure of the pCARS model quality is wrong. SMSRenderTeam stated that every car has an LODX model, which is used for Ultra model quality and the player's car renders at that level. I can't remember the exact figure but I'm pretty sure that at those settings the player's car is 200-250k polygons in gameplay. If we're just going for highest number of polygons, then Forza 5's models win, with Forzavista models (interior, exterior and engine details all rendered) being around 1m polygons.

I found the post in question.

As a general rule our car models have four LODs that are the same on both console and PC:

LODA 60k triangles
LODB 25/26k
LODC 4k
LODD 0.8k

on PC there is an extra LOD that we call "LODX" - this is enabled for the player car only when using the Ultra Setting for Vehicle Detail. LODX models are 200-300,000 triangles!

LOD switching is mostly driven by distance of the car from the camera, and is not dependent on the # of cars in a race.

So it would appear that a 200k-300k car model is used only for the player's car, and only when Ultra is used for vehicle detail. Otherwise 60k models are used.

 

[Hubble]

Just to say that you are moving goal posts here, no use bringing PC or the age of the older gen in argument here when you yourself said in your own post that the new consoles are not really powerful compared to the old one. It does not matter if a mid end PC outperforms or if a laptop has a better CPU, hell even the PS3 has a better CPU (in some aspects) than PS4.

What. He said PS4 is 8x more powerful than a PS3. I only responded by saying that means little 7 years later - that's not moving goal posts. It does matter. Consoles are significantly weaker than PC's more than any previous generation because of what their outfitted with as PC games stay becoming complex.

 

[Three]

Fairly sure the 200k figure is definitely not in game. The Xbox One can't handle that for Forza's ingame models (which are around 60-100k IIRC), so there's no way the PS3 hardware can, especially with up to 16 cars on screen.

Also, your figure of the pCARS model quality is wrong. SMSRenderTeam stated that every car has an LODX model, which is used for Ultra model quality and the player's car renders at that level. I can't remember the exact figure but I'm pretty sure that at those settings the player's car is 200-250k polygons in gameplay. If we're just going for highest number of polygons, then Forza 5's models win, with Forzavista models (interior, exterior and engine details all rendered) being around 1m polygons.

That's definitely not true. Unless SMSRendering can chime in again, what has been said in the past is that the players car is also LODA on consoles. Its the Garage/Photomode that's 300k only, at least on consoles. So thats 300k in PCars which is still lower than the 500k in GT5s garage/photomode on PS3. If we are talking about geometry in garage/photomode nothing beats GT6 though because by somehow using adaptive tessellation on a 2006 piece of hardware they got the highest geometry detail in their cars.

That's the small cap you see on the wheel in the first shot.

But anyway I think we ought to keep it OT and talk about framerate in PCars. I hope people don't think I'm complaining about PCars in any way. I think what they have achieved is great.

 

[tuxfool]

Welp. Any game with screen tearing is a automatic no buy from me.

A shame as I was interested in the game. You would think V sync would be demanded by the console makers at this stage. 99% of the games have no tearing now and the ones that do are technical train wrecks.

Err...

Many console games drop frames from time to time. Seeing as they're not dropping to 20fps then it means that they're using some form of adaptive vsync. Thus that means that it tears. It might not always be visible but it happens.

 

[ShamePain]

Cars and track, are you nuts. Put the games next to each other then claim that bullshit. PD have never done tracks better than forza.

Ah, actually both cars and tracks were always more accurately modelled in GT, proceed to the graphics comparison thread and see for yourself. Even compared to FM5 it's quite a bit ahead, especially in the lighting department. Two major defficiencies of GT on PS3 were crappy shadows and unstable framerate. Forza basically never had realtime lighting in mainline series so it has no real shadows on tracks, just painted on pre-baked ones that have zero performance impact.

 

[ShamePain]

About GT tracks, one thing that always stood out for me visually was how water was not animated. I know, you barely would see the waterside while racing, but it was something I always noticed.

This is with GT5 though, but is it the same with GT6?

No, I don't think so, but at least it has reflections unlike water in forza. So something lost, something gained.

 

[AgentOtaku]

Did my own capture last night of some racing in the wet with 20 AI cars. My main discovery is that racing in the wet is really hard.

I don't know how to get a fps counter on your xbone capture either, if someone knows how to do that I would appreciate knowing.

https://youtu.be/22F8PxujGTo

thanks for taking the time to record this. Looked like even in dry conditions, the game just hovered around 45-52ish fps. Never 60 like the PS4
During the rain now, yeah, they might as well lock the damn framerate for wet races as that shit never went about 40 or so and the tearing was pretty constant when groups with cars + all the alpha going on.

 

[shadowsdarknes]

The framerate is unacceptable.

Yeah fuck these lazy developers.

I'm not playing this unplayable mess of a game.

Right?

 

[shadowsdarknes]

8X difference means shit when when the PS3 was 7 years old when the PS4 launched. A laptop CPU is more powerful than a PS3 CPU. I am not saying the game looks bad but consoles are not going to be pushing graphics at 60FPS with reasonable settings to PC. Developers should be focused on pushing graphical fidelity the best they can instead of aiming for PC-like settings (1080p, 60fps), but we have helped cause this obsession.

The visual difference between the PS3 and PS4 is plenty sufficient. I don't know what you're expecting.

I'd argue that KZ 3 to KZ SF is about as big as a visual jump as Black on PS2 to Perfect Dark Zero or Resistance Fall of Man.

Or that infamous SS from infamous 1 or even infamous 2 is a very significant visual jump.

 

[HTupolev]

Many console games drop frames from time to time. Seeing as they're not dropping to 20fps then it means that they're using some form of adaptive vsync.

Triple-buffering allows games to flop about between different frame times, such that it won't look like a simple "drop to 20fps" when the frames slip above the 33ms line. It's very juddery, though, and makes for a less responsive experience than dropping vsync.

 

[paragonpro]

Yeah fuck these lazy developers.

I'm not playing this unplayable mess of a game.

Right?

I don't understand what people expect some times, when your pairing down something from a pc to a ps4, then down to an Xbox one, then down to a wii u, something is going to give, I just give these guys credit for getting it on consoles.

 

[EGOMON]

Lol @ people doubting PD and GT7 can't wait for E3 reveal, shit gonna cause global meltdown.

OT: PC looks good but am holding on it until E3 if GT7 got announced and released this year then I'll just skip PC otherwise PCars will hold me till the GT7

 

[system11]

So I went and bought it anyway because I had to know (PS4), and....

Yeah that ghosting is pretty much the most horrible thing I've seen in a 60fps racing game in 30 years of gaming. It actually makes the game look 30fps. Absolutely astonished that 1) it was released that way and 2) hardly anyone in media is talking about it.

Binary steering too, too much lock too quickly leads to a twitchy experience. That bit is fixable in options though of course.

 

[Micerider]

So I went and bought it anyway because I had to know (PS4), and....

Yeah that ghosting is pretty much the most horrible thing I've seen in a 60fps racing game in 30 years of gaming. It actually makes the game look 30fps. Absolutely astonished that 1) it was released that way and 2) hardly anyone in media is talking about it.

Binary steering too, too much lock too quickly leads to a twitchy experience. That bit is fixable in options though of course.

Disable Motionflow or any "image refresh enhancer" boost your TV might have as it heavily emphasize the ghosting in question.

 

[system11]

Disable Motionflow or any "image refresh enhancer" boost your TV might have as it heavily emphasize the ghosting in question.

Not going to make any kind of difference, the problem is at any one time you have 2 images on the screen. It's really horrible, I'm amazed some people say you can't see it in motion, I immediately felt like I was watching a 30fps game at the first corner which kind of undermines the most of the point of 60 in the first place.

I did try what you suggested just in case, and it just made things look even more blurry.

I should add on the upside, I made the game engine choke a little and honestly it wasn't that big of a deal, I can live with that. The graphics generally are more than high enough quality for me (I've turned post procs off), the ghosting motion blur though is a fucking abomination. If a dev hadn't posted something about looking to patch an option in there I'd honestly be returning it or slinging it on ebay.

 

[benzy]

So I went and bought it anyway because I had to know (PS4), and....

Yeah that ghosting is pretty much the most horrible thing I've seen in a 60fps racing game in 30 years of gaming. It actually makes the game look 30fps. Absolutely astonished that 1) it was released that way and 2) hardly anyone in media is talking about it.

Binary steering too, too much lock too quickly leads to a twitchy experience. That bit is fixable in options though of course.

This is what's keeping me from pulling the trigger on the ps4 version. Might have to just wait until whenever I eventually upgrade my PC or there's a patch. I watched the gamersyde vids and that ghosting sort of gave me a headache, moreso in the replays but still.

 

[omonimo]

8X difference means shit when when the PS3 was 7 years old when the PS4 launched. A laptop CPU is more powerful than a PS3 CPU. I am not saying the game looks bad but consoles are not going to be pushing graphics at 60FPS with reasonable settings to PC. Developers should be focused on pushing graphical fidelity the best they can instead of aiming for PC-like settings (1080p, 60fps), but we have helped cause this obsession.

Means shit? You said ps4 it's barely more powerful of the ps3 and it's totally false, that's what I'm simply saying. If you compare ps4 to a PC, yes it sucks but it's a budget hardware, is it a news for you? You don't like it? Buy a PC, it's an easy choice. I'm not sure what it is outraging about the ps4 hardware. Market want budget hardware, not powerful machine at all cost, ps4 sales prove it. I'd like a more powerful machine too, but the majority prefers reasonable price to the specs. End of the story. I can live with that. This post about boohoo boohoo ps4 it's so weak, start to be really childish. No one push the other to buy a console at all cost.
Back to the 60 fps matter, I don't think developers are obsessed to the 60 fps target. They achieved a stable fps in normal conditions but when the engine it's extremely pushed, obviously fps suffers more. There are so many variable which I'm not even that sure with a new exoctic hardware, things would been better. A new hardware needs to be studied for years before produce appreciable results. I want to remind what was Quake 4 on x360 before Rage coming.

 

[Truespeed]

Surprising. Even at 900p the Xbox can't even match the FPS of the PS4.

 

[system11]

This is what's keeping me from pulling the trigger on the ps4 version. Might have to just wait until whenever I eventually upgrade my PC or there's a patch. I watched the gamersyde vids and that ghosting sort of gave me a headache, moreso in the replays but still.

Yes if you notice it in the videos you absolutely will notice it in-game. It's just everywhere, the only thing in focus is your dashboard or car depending on camera view.

I'm stunned they released it like this when so much care and attention has been lavished on every other area I've looked at.

I've been driving some of the older cars, a couple I've actually driven the real thing of, one I've even owned, and that's been a blast. I can confirm that old Fords with souped up engines are exactly as dangerous as the game depicts.

If the devs are still reading this, please let us turn the blur off completely. I saw a slider mentioned so as long as the bottom setting is 'none' we're all good to go. If that causes a loss of AA then fine, I don't care - just give us the option to fix the blur please. Oh another suggestion - in menus let us move upwards from the top to wrap around to the bottom. Small thing, nice to have though.

 

[hesido]

Yes if you notice it in the videos you absolutely will notice it in-game. It's just everywhere, the only thing in focus is your dashboard or car depending on camera view.

I'm stunned they released it like this when so much care and attention has been lavished on every other area I've looked at.

I've been driving some of the older cars, a couple I've actually driven the real thing of, one I've even owned, and that's been a blast. I can confirm that old Fords with souped up engines are exactly as dangerous as the game depicts.

If the devs are still reading this, please let us turn the blur off completely. I saw a slider mentioned so as long as the bottom setting is 'none' we're all good to go. If that causes a loss of AA then fine, I don't care - just give us the option to fix the blur please. Oh another suggestion - in menus let us move upwards from the top to wrap around to the bottom. Small thing, nice to have though.

According to the devs, it's an image quality enhancement. For example, your car from behind view, when you are not turning, looks very smooth on the edges, even better than PC. When you stop completely, everything looks butter smooth. The whole image breaks going above 5km/h sure, but if you go above 50km/h, all the road-side objects double, giving a massive boost of objects visible on screen. PS4 version boasts double the amount of fence rods, road cones, lamp posts compared to other platforms.

On a serious note, if they allow turning off the temporal anti-alias, please provide a similar motion blur setting that produces actual motion blur on anything other than road pebbles. Xbox One's motion blur seems perfectly fine, it's not overdone, you can still view slow moving objects in detail (as opposed to everything that moves two pixels across frames having a ghost on PS4). The motion blur on XBox One provides sense of speed that the ghosting can't, for reasons I'm not going to cover here.

 

[JAYSIMPLE]

Aren't they going to patch out the ghosting on the ps4. It sounds very bad. Making it the worse version to play? I have a pc but my friend was saying he would rather play driveclub and he was disappointed in p cars on ps4.

 

[Conduit]

Making it the worse version to play? I have a pc but my friend was saying he would rather play driveclub and he was disappointed in p cars on ps4.

How and compared to...?

 

[c0de]

Polyphony will absolutely destroy this game and anything Forza offers this gen in overall graphics, but especially lighting wise, with whatever they are cooking for the PS4.

Yeah, but still Daytona was a fun game, although easily beaten by the port of Sega Rally.

 

[GoonerTRON]

I'll wait for Forza 6 unless I can use my XB1 wheel on the PC sometime un the near future.

 

[mike4001_]

Not sure about this game - At least XB1 owners have FM6 to look forward too

WIll probably not have the same visuals as they will probably go for 1080/60 (locked) again.

 

[Micerider]

WIll probably not have the same visuals as they will probably go for 1080/60 (locked) again.

I bet Forza 6 will have better visuals if anything

 

[JAYSIMPLE]

How and compared to...?

I've heard it looks really bad compared to other versions and is actually distracting? I havnt seen it myself but if the other versions don't suffer from it then Yeh.

 

[GoonerTRON]

WIll probably not have the same visuals as they will probably go for 1080/60 (locked) again.

Good!

 

[tuna_love]

I'll wait for Forza 6 unless I can use my XB1 wheel on the PC sometime un the near future.

You can can't you?

 

[Backfoggen]

Aren't they going to patch out the ghosting on the ps4. It sounds very bad. Making it the worse version to play? I have a pc but my friend was saying he would rather play driveclub and he was disappointed in p cars on ps4.

I'd say both versions equal each other out with their pros and cons with the PS4 winning if you're sensitive to frame rate drops.
I personally think the PS4 version would benefit from more pronounced motion blur

 

[system11]

On a serious note, if they allow turning off the temporal anti-alias, please provide a similar motion blur setting that produces actual motion blur on anything other than road pebbles. Xbox One's motion blur seems perfectly fine, it's not overdone, you can still view slow moving objects in detail (as opposed to everything that moves two pixels across frames having a ghost on PS4). The motion blur on XBox One provides sense of speed that the ghosting can't, for reasons I'm not going to cover here.

At 60fps simulating those speeds, you don't need motion blur at all though, it's totally superfluous unless you pause the game.

 

[Hermii]

WIll probably not have the same visuals as they will probably go for 1080/60 (locked) again.

Will probably be much better optimized though, being a first party exclusive.

 

[hesido]

At 60fps simulating those speeds, you don't need motion blur at all though, it's totally superfluous unless you pause the game.

Well, the higher fps, the less you can go with motion blur, but 60fps still somewhat benefits from motion blur for very fast moving objects. If you want to completely get rid of motion blur, you'd probably need >120hz (240hz?), then you probably wouldn't even need blur on the turning tires. We can think of motion blur as a remedy for temporal aliasing since we are not able to show the object in every possible position between frames (Not to be mixed with temporal anti-alias used to mitigate spatial aliasing, it's like an anti-temporal alias )

 

[EGM1966]

Aren't they going to patch out the ghosting on the ps4. It sounds very bad. Making it the worse version to play? I have a pc but my friend was saying he would rather play driveclub and he was disappointed in p cars on ps4.

I don't believe they're going to patch it out however I'm sure they said they'd add a slider allowing you to turn it off yourself which I'd argue is even better as "choices".

I'm going to get it in PC mostly likely but by the sounds of it I'd want that slider on PS4 (not sure if they gave any hint of timeframe but given game already has a lot of options I can't imagine it'll take that long to add another one to the existing screen for it).

 

[system11]

Well, the higher fps, the less you can go with motion blur, but 60fps still somewhat benefits from motion blur for very fast moving objects. If you want to completely get rid of motion blur, you'd probably need >120hz (240hz?), then you probably wouldn't even need blur on the turning tires. We can think of motion blur as a remedy for temporal aliasing since we are not able to show the object in every possible position between frames (Not to be mixed with temporal anti-alias used to mitigate spatial aliasing, it's like an anti-temporal alias )

At 60 our eyes are already fooled though (people claim 48 is the general minimum to get away with the illusion of movement) and any fast moving object will pick up loss of focus just the same way as looking at a building while a car speeds past it.

Added to that a lot of people on consoles are using LCD panels which add their own form of blur unless 120hz with a really quick back to black time.

 

[Surface of Me]

Very happy to see this game running on my laptop. Sadly, I can only play races in dry conditions, can't play at 20 fps in raining conditions. Feels pretty bad. But on medium at 720p and dry conditions I get 30 fps fixed while in the middle of the chaos, and 40-45 frames while leading the race.

Nice job, Slighty Mad.

Running on Geforce 840M - 2 Gb, and i5 2.8 Ghz, 8 Gb ram

Do we have the same laptop? I have those exact same specs. Asus X550L here.

 

[system11]

I don't believe they're going to patch it out however I'm sure they said they'd add a slider allowing you to turn it off yourself which I'd argue is even better as "choices".

Yes I have faith that they will actually come through on this, but questions need to be asked about who saw that and ticked it off as ready to ship. Zero would be a better default than it has now.

Some people are claiming they can't see it, which blows my mind, right out there with believing The Last Guardian will ship for Christmas.

 

[hesido]

Some people are claiming they can't see it, which blows my mind, right out there with believing The Last Guardian will ship for Christmas.

They genuinely can't see it, even SMSRenderTeam, so "claim" may not be the proper word, they know that they can't see. Blows my mind all the same. The amount of reviews with 0 mentions of this, youtube / neogaf comments praising the IQ etc. is a testament to the high percentage of people not affected by this.