Support NeoGAF

[Guerrillas in the Mist]

Almost every "big" kickstarter project has used kickstarter funds in addition to publisher investment. Pillars of Eternity, Yooka-Laylee, Bloodstained all did the same thing.

Pillars was published through a deal with Paradox that wasn't signed until well in development. While I'm certain some money changed hands, it certainly wasn't like that from the start. A very different situation from this.

 

[Elixist]

Sony supportING pc more than ms these days lol. Maybe they'll start throwing pc late ports of their first party stuff. Would be smart biz imo.

 

[Dictator93]

Let's wait 14 more years for another one.

Sounds like a plan.

People were saying they wouldn't mind a KS for this game if it would help it get funded so why suddenly now it's a problem is weird. It's now getting funded, has a huge buzz going around it along with VII and TLG and has fantastic backing rewards to make sure peoples donations aren't just going to nothing.

There's nothing to be upset about.

I definitely am not upset. Like I said, I just prefer a different model. It implies a different level of community interaction and responsibility that I prefer.

Ok.

Enjoy your Shenmue III in 2069.

I am happy people will play the game they want to play at the end of the day.

Why is everyone upset that I prefer a different way for games to be funded?

 

[Hockeymac18]

I'm personally of the opinion that a game like this deserves to be on as many platforms as possible (I think a classic game like FFVII fits into this, too). I'm a gigantic Sega fan and am so happy this is happening, and want as many people in the world to be exposed to the Shenmue universe - so think it deserves to not be platform-exclusive in any way.

But, I'm also realistic and know that this game wasn't going to happen in any traditional way. Someone was going to have to step in and take a risk. It would have been just as crummy if MS had done it and PS4 and Wii U owners would be out of luck.

The best part about this arrangement is that it seems that it is coming to the PC, at least. So that is good for most non-PS4 owners. Just wish it could be on more/all platforms.

Either way, though: Shenmue freaking 3!!!! So crazy that this is actually a thing.

 

[AyaisMUsikWhore]

Oh...

Can't...
wait...
for...
the...
XB1...
Edition...
THEN!

You should of been transparent of your blantant beef then. Maybe Microsoft should of stepped in and saved the project then? But they didn't so be fucking mad at MS. Sony and Yu found a way to make something happen and MS did nothing because they probably don't care about reviving this shit.

Bye Felicia!

 

[SocksAndShoes]

I can't believe there's still complaining about what's going on with this. We are finally getting Shenmue.

People are never happy about anything.

It's about morals in capitalism.

#Shenmuegate

 

[DidntKnowJack]

I want to grab my copies of Shenmue 1 and 2 and give them a hug. Maybe even a little snuggle.

 

[WrenchNinja]

What about WiiU? No?

Then it IS an exclusive.

It's on PC. Get out of your console bubble.

 

[Salsa]

I understand, although i'm still curious about how you think it ulitmately will affect the projects being backed, or how Kickstarter as a platformer is being affected.

if the end all is "we just get more games" and this is handled correctly / one of a kind-ish type thing then hooray, but these deals are technically invisible to us till they happen or they don't. there's questions to be raised still. what's the limit, what does the rampant success mean, will this lead to kind of a nostalgia banking, will this make big triple AAA things that arent HUGE or sequels to smash hits even less of a thing unless they go through kickstarter, etc

again, MY main thing, which is not the same complaint as other people have here, is specifically how this went down, in this particular case, and Sony's lack of a bit more transparency.

there's an argument to be made of "we wouldnt get these games otherwise" and I agree with that and that's why I like Kickstarter, so im not the one to be throwing that defense at. I just think this particular event is kind of a big thing to say "hey look at this this can happen we did this" and I don't like how Sony handled it, regardless of we getting the game = awesome.

 

[Pikma]

Is that what this is about?

Nope. Don't look too much into it, you won't find anything

 

[Krejlooc]

This is probably not thread-worthy but I'm sure some of you guys will find it interesting if it is not known:

According to a French newspaper (not games media, a traditional newspaper), a French co-producer helped make this game possible. Cedric Biscay apparently heads a company which worked for a long time to sort out the licensing permission from Sega for the campaign. They interviewed him and he confirmed that Sega still holds the rights, but has accepted the project.

Here's the source (in french):

http://www.20minutes.fr/culture/163...henmue-3-va-devenir-realite-grace-kickstarter

Do you speak french? Would you mind translating this?

 

[davepoobond]

I mean what the hell guys publishers for once give you the possibility to choose if a game should be created or not and some of you are mad about it.

Only in the gaming communities i swear.

our games must be clean and free of corporate involvement!!!

 

[tiebreaker]

Really begs the question why PC retail backing is available but not PS4 retail. I understand that generally PC users are heavy backers, but it seems pretty odd not to have the other option

I think the retail version is going to be published by Sony. That, or they are going to pack in Shenmue 1 & 2 HD for the retail version. One can only hope...

 

[Nafai1123]

What?





Not sure what's so funny about what I said. This was a move to gauge interest in the game. Now that that's been fulfilled is there any reason to keep the kickstarter up?

It's not that complicated.

Cancel the KS, Sony funds the game and sells it for $60. People can only buy it for $60.
Don't cancel the KS, fans and Sony fund the game. Get it on KS for $30 early or at retail for $60.

What's hard to understand about this?

 

[Blood Diamonds]

What?





Not sure what's so funny about what I said. This was a move to gauge interest in the game. Now that that's been fulfilled is there any reason to keep the kickstarter up?

The rewards that people pledged for? The OST, Artbook, and the game at a lower price than the retail price? Don't tell me you think they should give that out for free.

 

[Jinfash]

I guess for a project as big as Shenmue 3, one that could have never been funded with only 2mil, 4mil, 10mil, or even 50mil, having publishers keep their eyes on the KS, communicate behind the scenes with the devs, and gauge interest before swooping in with their big pockets and publishing deals, was an inevitability.

It happened before and will continue to happen. So none of this sets a precedent.

What's different is the mere fact that Suzuki was invited on stage to announce the kickstarter. One that Sony had prior knowledge of and preemptively started publishing talks like in the case of other KS.

It's something that still lies in a grayish area, but this gave Suzuki what's arguably the biggest platform to announce/push a KS, and gave Sony pretty big PR points. So it was mutually beneficial for both.

What remains to be straightened out, is the announcement of Sony's involvement on the KS page. An updated that'll be pushed to all backers, giving them the opportunity to adjust (or even cancel) their pledges. And hopefully Sony doing good on their promise that this is still a Suzuki/Ys project, meaning Yu's full creative freedom is still intact with no external pressures.

 

[dugdug]

What?





Not sure what's so funny about what I said. This was a move to gauge interest in the game. Now that that's been fulfilled is there any reason to keep the kickstarter up?

Pledging $30 gets you a copy of the game.

There's no way it will be $30 when it releases.

 

[Y2Kev]

Mitigation of risk on to consumers in this way reminds me of citizens mitigating banks' risks by having their taxes bail them out.

Blearhghgh

Hey, sometimes it works out. How much money did treasury make on its bulge bracket bank investments? Lol

 

[lazer_bean]

People just look at the surface, they don't realize it takes wayyyyyyy more than 2 million to make a video game. Hell for all we know, the Kickstarter money barely scratches the surface of the development cost. Hell it's barely enough for marketing.

I don't think people talk about the real cost of the game when they say they don't like how Sony dealt with this.
The kickstarter makes it look like Sony lacks confidence in Shenmue 3. "We've got a very requested game but we're not so sure how it will do. So... will you fund it ? TELL US NOW ON KICKSTARTER.COM !!!"

it's just not very classy.

Also, I wouldn't like to see a trend where smaller devs have to go through a fully funded kickstarter just to get a go-ahead from a publisher.

 

[_Ryo_]

Some not very bright thinking by some in this thread.

Wait 15 years for Shenmue, Sony let Yu on their stage to announce KS, They fund it because OMG Shenmue 3!, find out it's only 2 million $ goal "no way it can be made for that little" *FUNDS*, Sony says they're helping out funding because it was to gauge interest. *TAKES BACK MONEY*

really now? What?

 

[Nyteshade517]

What about WiiU? No?

Then it IS an exclusive.

it's on PC too...so it's not exclusive

Console-wise exclusive? Yes
Can more than PS4 owners buy and play it? Yes

 

[Two Words]

Why complain? If this is a problem to you, can't you still cancel your kickstarter donation?

 

[Tenzan]

What?





Not sure what's so funny about what I said. This was a move to gauge interest in the game. Now that that's been fulfilled is there any reason to keep the kickstarter up?

The stretch goals to see how many people are interested in the game. The different languages, the extra mini games and expanded village

 

[Vigilant Walrus]

Shenmue was the most expensive game ever made. There is no way they can make Shenmue for anywhere need 2 million. They need like 50 million if they are going to have a game that was as groundbreaking and immersive as Shenmue. People lost their shit when this came out.

 

[fedexpeon]

There are people giving way more money than the retail price the game will have.

Wow at people really defending this. Do you guys think the only way Sony could measure interest for this game was through launching a faux kickstarter?

LOLOL...you are being obtuse on purpose right?
Are you going to complain next about how corporation putting out CE for $200 and gamers are playing more money for some crappy DLC/Beta/statue that only cost the corporation $10?

Some people have a large disposable income. Some people care about the other rewards. Some people just want their dream to come true.
They could have pledged 39 and will be locked in for the game...These people can all read, but they still pledged more on the average of 85/person.
Why are you so bitter that people can drop so much money on a faux KS?
Why the hatred for corporation?
They are people too btw.

 

[Dead Prince]

In the end the game is happening. The shenmue fans backed the campaign. Theres always the group that has an issue with this. But hey. Game is still coming . Complain away.

 

[Head.spawn]

It just blows my mind that Sony is okay with blowing money on Lair, Haze, Knack and stuff, but they're hesitant about one of the most requested games of all time... to the point where they want people to throw up their own money to prove to Kaz that it's a worthy risk. That's just crazy.

I'm glad to see the game is going to see the light of day, but I don't understand why they didn't just help out like any of the other Third Party Production games.

 

[border]

Perhaps the provisio was that they had to meet the kickstarter amount before any funding kicked in. You really think if the KS failed Sony would have spent millions on it... interesting.

Someone here already demonstrated the problem with this logic very well -- to meet the Kickstarter goals would have required roughly 66K games to be sold at $30/each. There's NintendoDS shovelware that can easily clear that many worldwide units at such a price.

Do you really think Sony would have gotten involved with this game at all if they thought it couldn't have sold such an utterly measly amount? Do you really think they are that terrible at gauging consumer interest that they can't even know if a property will sell 66K?

They set the bar incredibly low, have a super successful KickStarter, get a ton of social media exposure, and the fan community gets to pat themselves on the back.

 

[crookedaxis]

the man was flirting with kickstarter since 2013
i think he knows a little bit more than some really smart users here how to get shit done

 

[joecanada]

Good heavens, Sony, doing marketing research? How absurd. This small, plucky underdog company doesn't have the resources for something like that.

and what does that have to do with anything? you do realize they don't own the IP don't you? So Sony should just do some market research for a product/company they don't own to see if they might want to publish a game no one saw as feasible for a decade?

sorry i'm not writing that one down.

 

[Uno Venova]

Oh...

Can't...
wait...
for...
the...
XB1...
Edition...
THEN!

 

[harSon]

considering you are getting a copy of the game from whatever you decide to put into the kickstarter, there's not much you are being "scammed" on here.

2 million is a laughable amount to fund a game like this. it wasnt getting made for 2 million. it needs 10 times or more than that amount.

It's all about transparency. For example, Playtonic was 100% up front with their Kickstarter by mentioning that Yooka-Laylee was being developed whether the Kickstarter was successful or not due to funding already existing - and that the Kickstarter was simply a means of fleshing out an already existing game.

Instead of basically saying "We're just trying to do a noble thing here! Here's a Kickstarter we're simply trying to give some exposure too!", they could have been up front and likely gotten the same amount of excitement.

 

[Stallion Dan]

Nintendo saves Bayonetta 2, funds it outright and announces the game = People raging, "Fuck Nintendo"

Sony 'saves' Shenmue 3, tells people to fund it themselves lol = People enraptured, "Based Sony!"

ok...

Quite different.

Shenmue has been dead for a long ass time, and the only console the original released on is from a company that doesn't even make consoles anymore. Whatever fanbase it had has spread out between Nintendo, MS, Sony and PC in the last 15 years.

Bayonetta was a recent game with its fanbase still very fresh and still playing the consoles it released on, so going exclusive to another console entirely sucked.

 

[hawk2025]

This is literally GAF eating its own tail. Turning a gaming miracle into a faux controversy.

This is one of the worst threads ever.

But, think about it.


All the complaining, and little controversies and discussions...



We will still get Shenmue 3.

 

[Yujin]

I really don't see how having 35k supporters (as of now) guarantees Sony that this game will be a hit. I

mean, you can make market analysis research and you would get similar answers. The kickstarter is just a PR thing. And it's fine, but i don't find it ethical. People dismissing the ethical implications well, there's a lot to say out of that.

This right here.

 

[Khayam]

Suzuki couldn't fund it by himself or through Kickstarter alone. A $2M Kickstarter goal is already one of the larger ones, and a proper Shenmue game would take at least $10M to make. Suzuki needed someone big to provide for the shortfall, and Sony stepped in.

Where does your 10M figure come from ?

The campaign is already at 2 and half in less than 24 hours. How much will they reach ? I reckon they will get around 5, like Bloodstained.

So the remaining 5 that Sony brings forward pays for the PS4 port and the exclusivity.

Why are people expecting Sony to pay for everything and are angry at them ?

 

[boyshine]

(...)
I understand if you're personally uncomfortable with this whole situation and no longer feel like you're willing to pledge the money anymore.

But from my understanding, you're able to pull your pledges anyway. So...would you want them to cancel the KS then?

IMO yes, they should pull the Kickstarter. The stretch goals when Sony is funding seem strange to say the least.

 

[Stilton Disco]

Brilliant, and I highly applaud everyone involved, and every other such approach to crowd funding titles, that those holding the purse strings have arbitrarily decided shouldn't get made, just because they think anything that isn't going to sell COD numbers, isn't worth making.

SHENMUE FUCKING 3 IS GOING TO HAPPEN PEOPLE! STOP WHINING AND CELEBRATE THAT FACT!

 

[davepoobond]

In the end the game is happening. The shenmue fans backed the campaign. Theres always the group that has an issue with this. But hey. Game is still coming . Complain away.

true shenmue fans wouldnt be complaining about Sony funding it

 

[A_Gorilla]

Is that what this is about?

Sadly, I think it is.

Its Bayonetta 2/SFV all over again...

 

[raphier]

Where have those tools been since Shenmue 2?



I am giving a game developer money to receive a video game in return, and giving them a measly $29 at that. I'm not really in the mood to feign outrage because I'm bored and need to make an issue out of something that quite literally doesn't have a victim. Sorry.

You are not giving money for a video game in return. You are only promised an item in return, but there is no quarantee. You don't know when you will get it and for all you know, the development could become ill and project cancelled before the end. It could be 2 years from now or 5 and you have no power about it. Who knows where your money goes during the production, you are not funding the game, you are simply backing up an idea only.

 

[Hikari_Ryu]

People here have so much short sightedness they should be declared legally blind.

They only needed 2M on kickstarter to get founding approved? Then they should stop taking in more kickstarter money. Fuck those that want to also buy the game at a discounted price o get any of the other rewards that most likely would cost them much more than they are paying, right?

Also, who does Sony think they are? How dare them do this to gauge interest before investing god know how much money in the game? Being responsible with money instead of gambling blindly is such a scumbag move.

What's that you're saying? That they knew that there were so many fans that it was obvious people were going to buy it? Yeah, I guess it was so obvious Shenmue 3 is going to be a success that NO ONE IN THE INDUSTRY DARED TO FUND IT IN 14 YEARS!

You act like Sony shouldn't be a business, like they looking to make money is evil. I'm guessing that most people here work for free and they just find their games and consoles on the street, instead of buying them with the money they make from their jobs.

It's easy to ask someone else to gamble with their money, especially those evil corporations. I wonder, how much people would have joined the kickstarter if they said that if they didn't reach the goal they wouldn't get a refund? Because if Sony went ahead and put 20M into the game and flopped, no one would give them their money back.

I know I sound like I'm too much of a Corporate apologist, but I'm not. Every corporation does shit that they should be called for, like the uncharted collection at 60 bucks, charging for online, bad refund policies, etc, but this isn't one of that things.

Sony just made a move to ensure a good financial move, gamers got a game that they been waiting for a long time and even got to buy it at a discounted price.

We should be giving praise to moves like this or the 360 backwards compatibility (even if limited, it's good to a lot of people) and give them shit when they do scumbag stuff.

 

[Pandy]

I don't mean to be pedantic (I think that's the right word) but why does any of that matter? Backers get the game for less than the retail price and it wouldn't have been made without them.

Sigh.
What retail price? How do you know what it's going to retail at? We have no idea of the budget, so why would you expect anything more than a $5 dollar digital download title? How do you know it wouldn't have been made without them?

We know nothing about this, and until we do, being dismissive of the concerns of others without possessing any facts yourself is a fairly daft position to adopt. It may have no bearing on the outcome now, but a 'real' Shenmue fan would be concerned that the franchise was going to be treated properly, instead of being blindly happy that some game with the right name was being made.

EDIT: None of this is a problem if Sony (co-)funded it themselves. Business is business, but I'm not going to back a project I'm being kept in the dark about.

This should be standard Kickstarter Red Flag territory, but people are defending it because of the names involved.

 

[Zombie James]

I don't have time to sift through the whole thread, but were people this upset about Bloodstaind? I funded it knowing there was an outside party helping fund and develop the project, don't remember a big fuss.

 

[Faustek]

So these big kickstarters are doing what Reggie wanted proof of.

Putting your money where your mouth is.

I can respect that. What I don't respect is a lack of transparity. Should have been clear from the start.

Any way, fucking yes again!!! We're getting Shenmue and fuck yeah!! I'll be looking for sailors

 

[Sojgat]

Please tell me this thread isn't moving faster than the one for the actual announcement of SHENMUE 3.

 

[bananafactory]

Years from now this will be one of the most embarrassing threads in history

A game that no one ever thought would be made is happening and people are angry

 

[ZiggyMoff]

I can't believe there's still complaining about what's going on with this. We are finally getting Shenmue.

People are never happy about anything.

It really does seem that way for some people, like they have to find anything, anything at all to complain about - even when it has to do with great news (like getting Shenmue 3 after 14 years and for under $30 if you want).

I can see them being the type of people who walk down the road and find $20 on the ground, then moan about it later to mates about how unfair it was that they didn't find $50 instead.

 

[weevles]

Yeah, I'm just happy this is finally FINALLY getting done. This other ranting is so petty.

 

[SocksAndShoes]

and what does that have to do with anything? you do realize they don't own the IP don't you? So Sony should just do some market research for a product/company they don't own to see if they might want to publish a game no one saw as feasible for a decade?

sorry i'm not writing that one down.

OR they could just launch a kickstarter for it, and then help make it. Which is what they did because it was cheaper and easier. People are literally angry at capitalism right now.