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[LiquidSolid]

Sony really isn't any better, they have an impressive list of games that have disappeared as well.

Post it then.

 

[element]

I imagine that the MS shareholders are happy that they sold a bunch of consoles to people increased their MUAs by promising games like Phantom Dust, Shangheist & Fable Legends were on the horizon.

99% of MS shareholders could care less about Xbox or its games.

The typical MS shareholder is more excited about the announcement of SQL coming to Linux today.

was shangheist ever even revealed? its also the stupidest name

Not technically. There was a sizzle reel at E3, which was more of a "We have a studio named Black Tusk". No title. No release date. No discussion about it during or after E3.

 

[chillybright]

I blame E3 dick waving contest for these.

And what is to blame for that?

Demand for console exclusives for purchase justification.

 

[Mephala]

I blame E3 dick waving contest for these.

I think this is why I prefer Nintendo Directs. A lot of the times they show trailers with gameplay and give release dates. They feel like they are better crafted content that has been saved to show and impress rather than the hastily mashed up stuff. E3 does have the hype and atmosphere though.

Back on topic. I think a cancellations of games after announcements is a worrying sign when it occurs frequently in short succession. Hopefully this changes.

 

[daman824]

was shangheist ever even revealed? its also the stupidest name

No, they showed a tech demo to basically show the kind of tech the studio was working with. Cboat leaked the name. And now it counts as one of Microsofts many games they cancelled after showing off and advertising to the public.

 

[Triggerhappytel]

I don't think cancelling games in and of itself is a problem, but MS needs to stop announcing games so early when they've got little other than a CGI trailer, in order to make their line-up look busier than it is. Other publishers including Sony do this too, but MS have been particularly bad with it this gen, largely driven by the need to make their console look exciting due to their poor start out of the gate. For example:

Halo 5 - announced June 2013; released November 2015 : 29 months
Quantum Break - announced May 2013; releasing April 2016 : 35 months
Cuphead - announced June 2014; releasing ???
Below - announced June 2013; releasing ???
Crackdown - announced June 2014; releasing ??? (probably 2017) : at least 30 months
Scalebound - announced June 2014; releasing early 2017 : at least 30 months
Phantom Dust - announced June 2014; apparently not cancelled; releasing ???
Sea of Thieves - announced June 2015; releasing ??? (probably 2017)
Fable Legends - announced August 2013; cancelled March 2016 : 32 months
Gears 4 - announced January 2014; releasing late 2016 : at least 32 months

There's ten examples of games from MS with 2.5+ years hype cycles, and it really doesn't benefit anyone to announce games so far in advance. If they had one sensible E3 where they didn't announce anything that's more than 12-18 months from release they would probably get a lot of grief for it initially, but the following year's announcements would be that much more exciting and they'd just have to have a quiet year in order to 'sync' reveals on to a more realistic schedule.

 

[Elchele]

Recent?

 

[WordsintheWater]

Why does stuff have to become a console war type thing? I never said it was exclusive to MS, I focused on them because of the recent happenings. Also is it that outlandish to suggest that Phil needs to manage this stuff better? This whole Fable Legends thing was terribly managed. I shouldn't have called it a trend, you guys are right.

 

[Caipirinha]

Don't worry they won't be announcing too many games full stop from now on.

 

[I-hate-u]

Other publishers including Sony do this too, but MS have been particularly bad with it this gen, largely driven by the need to make their console look exciting due to their poor start out of the gate.

What other choice did they have though? They had to salvage their image with anything they had after that lackluster reveal conference, and the anti-consumerism strategies rumors along that came with it.

 

[wapplew]

Why does stuff have to become a console war type thing? I never said it was exclusive to MS, I focused on them because of the recent happenings. Also is it that outlandish to suggest that Phil needs to manage this stuff better? This whole Fable Legends thing was terribly managed. I shouldn't have called it a trend, you guys are right.

Well, only Microsoft on the thread title, maybe get rid of that can avoid some war.

 

[KJRS_1993]

Sea of Thieves in particular I don't really have much faith in actually materializing.

Rare were hiring for Sea of Thieves very recently, they might even still be. I'm not an expert but if they're taking people on, it seems like the project is doing just fine for now.

I think it'll come out alright, but we shall see.

 

[Caipirinha]

If Sea of Thieves doesn't perform well, you can guess which studio will be gone next. They were already close to closure after the failure of Kinect. And even then, they are only half the size of what they were under Nintendo.

If they're smart, and it looks like they are, management will have told Rare to focus primarily on Sea of Thieves being a PC MMO. Sure it will have an Xbox One release but if that game isn't going to be axed then it's going to effectively be a PC game.

 

[WordsintheWater]

Well, only Microsoft on the thread title, maybe get rid of that can avoid some war.

The reason I made this thread is for those examples and that I believe they've been mismanaged especially when it comes to Fable Legends. It's about Microsoft so the thread title change wouldn't make sense. Guess I can't expect posters not to go down that route though.

 

[chadskin]

Rare were hiring for Sea of Thieves very recently, they might even still be. I'm not an expert but if they're taking people on, it seems like the project is doing just fine for now.

I think it'll come out alright, but we shall see.

Lionhead is still hiring: http://www.lionhead.com/careers/current-vacancies/permanent and http://www.lionhead.com/careers/current-vacancies/contract

I don't think that's a sign of anything, really.

 

[wapplew]

If they're smart, and it looks like they are, management will have told Rare to focus primarily on Sea of Thieves being a PC MMO. Sure it will have an Xbox One release but if that game isn't going to be axed then it's going to effectively be a PC game.

Just make it Destiny/Division type mmo, it's the new popular genre, hit the iron while it's hot.

 

[WordsintheWater]

Rare were hiring for Sea of Thieves very recently, they might even still be. I'm not an expert but if they're taking people on, it seems like the project is doing just fine for now.

I think it'll come out alright, but we shall see.

I think it will be fine as well, I really hope it will be at least. I just can't see them putting a stop to another Rare game and this one looks promising.

 

[element]

Cuphead - announced June 2014; releasing ???
Below - announced June 2013; releasing ???

These are just on the platform. Aren't owned by Microsoft.

 

[Unison]

I blame E3 dick waving contest for these.

It's really this, but at a certain point I grow to distrust MS as a console manufacturer.

Cancelled titles are definitely annoying (if understanding), but turning Xbox One exclusives into PC ports also burns goodwill on me, since I have a PC. I am definitely starting to question why I even have an Xbox One if I have a PC and PS4.

I can't think of many great exclusives on the system ... AT ALL.

Xbox 360 BC is the top feature for me, at this point, and I still have my 360, so that's of limited use.

 

[Fox Mulder]

Never even heard of those other 3 games. But stuff like this happens, it's not a trend.

Canceling Phantom Dust was particularly shitty. The original on the Xbox is loved by a niche audience, one who needed to be swayed to the Xbox one after a shitty console reveal. They even made a CG trailer completely unrelated to the actual work being done by some unkown developer. After all the positive hype at E3 it was quietly canceled.

Just awful.

 

[travisbickle]

There's a difference between cancelling projects and revealing projects that are later cancelled.

All companies will cancel projects, only companies on the back foot (Sony early PS3, MS early XB1) will reveal/show projects that are still undecided.

 

[element]

The original on the Xbox is loved by a niche audience

Niche? Speculation has it selling around 40k units globally.

 

[RexNovis]

Canceling Phantom Dust was particularly shitty. The original on the Xbox is loved by a niche audience, one who needed to be swayed to the Xbox one after a shitty console reveal. They even made a CG trailer completely unrelated to the actual work being done by some unkown developer. After all the positive hype at E3 it was quietly canceled.

Just awful.

Yep it was horribly managed from the word go

I think it is also important to note that 3 of these cancellations led to studio closures.

Just look at the the kotaku article about the Phantom Dust cancellation and E3 presentation.

No more than a week after they’d signed the contract, according to several ex-Darkside employees, Microsoft’s team came back to the studio with a new request: they wanted a single-player campaign. “They decided that fans were gonna want a single-player game,” said a person who worked on the project. “But they weren’t going to change the budget or the timeframe.”

Suddenly, what was once a $5 million multiplayer reboot of Phantom Dust had become a $5 million multiplayer reboot of Phantom Dust with a six-hour single-player story mode attached. That meant Darkside would need more designers, more artists, and more programmers, all of which equated to extra time and money that they didn’t have.

Darkside was in the very early stages of development when E3 came around in June of last year, and some at the studio say they were shocked to see Microsoft announce Phantom Dust there. They were even more shocked to see the game announced through a pre-rendered trailer that nobody at Darkside had worked on, according to studio sources. Perhaps most frustratingly for people at the studio, Microsoft wouldn’t tell anyone that Darkside was developing the game. Darkside was put on a gag order; though the game had been announced, they still couldn’t tell people they were making it. “It was very sad,” said one person on the project. “It showed a lack of confidence in us.”

One former Darkside employee says some at the studio were caught off-guard by the announcement. “We didn’t even know if they were going to show it,” the employee said. “We were basically told, ‘Hey check out the E3 presentation.’ The whole studio’s in the living room, we have a TV going with an Xbox watching the presentation, and then all of a sudden there’s that two-minute CG trailer. And we were like, ‘That’s amazing.’ But at the same time, they didn’t use any of our assets, they didn’t use any of our card packs, nothing. Basically what they showed had nothing to do with the game whatsoever. We had no idea that was even happening… It was like, ‘Holy crap, now fans are expecting characters to look like that, and that’s not what we’re making.’”

One particularly strange moment for Darkside happened around then, when Microsoft’s Ken Lobb said on a podcast that Phantom Dust would be “about a 30-hour JRPG.” The developers were baffled. That was never part of their plan. “Nobody knew he was gonna say that,” said one Darkside staffer. “We were told by people at Microsoft that Ken just does things like that.”

That is inexplicably awful mishandling in the part of MS studios. Anyone claiming this cancellation was "normal" or that the management at MS is somehow not responsible is deluding themselves.

 

[Triggerhappytel]

Niche? Speculation has it selling around 40k units globally.

Okay? You're proving his point. Unless you're trying to suggest that it was such an unsuccessful game it doesn't even qualify as 'niche'?

 

[SlipperyFishes]

Fable Legends has been trapped in development hell for ages. It's probably safe to assume it wasn't going to hit it's release window of the first half of 2016 and wasn't projected to make much money when it did eventually hit. It's not surprising that MS cut their losses.

That and it was a holdover from the pre-Spencer days of micro transacting everything. Pretty sure he gave it as much of a chance as possible.

Niche? Speculation has it selling around 40k units globally.

This is the very definition of less than niche. This is Nintendo levels of third party sales on Wii U globally.

 

[jelly]

There is definitely a bit of hype padding from Microsoft. Sure, games get cancelled but teasing stuff unrelated to a game in development or so far out is hollow PR.

 

[darkinstinct]

Okay? You're proving his point. Unless you're trying to suggest that it was such an unsuccessful game it doesn't even qualify as 'niche'?

You don't make money on a niche of 40k. That's 2.4 million revenue.

 

[Jumeira]

Was Shangheist announced?

 

[RexNovis]

That and it was a holdover from the pre-Spencer days of micro transacting everything. Pretty sure he gave it as much of a chance as possible.

Pre-Spencer days? You cannot be serious. Who do you think oversaw the development and remade of all the current first party titles that "micro transact everything?" Hint he's the head of the division that makes the games.

 

[Head.spawn]

Edit: this shitty post is ruining the thread.

 

[element]

Was Shangheist announced?

already went over this. Technically no. A sizzle reel was shown at E3 to publicly announce the development studio known at Black Tusk. No title name was announced. No release date. No description of gameplay. Nothing.

 

[SlipperyFishes]

Pre-Spencer days? You cannot be serious. Who do you think oversaw the development and remade of all the current first party titles that "micro transact everything?" Hint he's the head of the division that makes the games.

Orders from on-high. You really don't think Mattrick and company gave him the company's goals and said go meet those? It's curious how everything began to change once Spencer and Nadella took on their current roles.

 

[Jumeira]

Pre-Spencer days? You cannot be serious. Who do you think oversaw the development and remade of all the current first party titles that "micro transact everything?" Hint he's the head of the division that makes the games.

He had to follow his superiors steer in direction. We know since Mattrik left things have changed significantly, with him having complete control. Unless you know anything about the internal makeup of their games division or are Dean Takahasi your making alot of assumptions.

already went over this. Technically no. A sizzle reel was shown at E3 to publicly announce the development studio known at Black Tusk. No title name was announced. No release date. No description of gameplay. Nothing.

OK thanks, so that shouldnt be brought up as title MS committed to its fans.

 

[Chobel]

I'm sure even MS want this to stop, but sometimes shit just happens.

 

[WordsintheWater]

He had to follow his superiors steer in direction. We know since Mattrik left things have changed significantly, with him having complete control. Unless you know anything about the internal makeup of their games division or are Dean Takahasi your making alot of assumptions.



OK thanks, so that shouldnt be brought up as title MS committed to its fans.

You're making a lot of assumptions as well. It's ridiculous that some people are unable to assign blame to Phil Spencer. It's kinda becoming a joke really. The guy is not immune to making bad decisions and do you guys really think that he has no say in anything? I mean come the eff on.

 

[Head.spawn]

He had to follow his superiors steer in direction. We know since Mattrik left things have changed significantly, with him having complete control. Unless you know anything about the internal makeup of their games division or are Dean Takahasi your making alot of assumptions.

Probably not worth the response, apparently it was Spencers fault on all games during Mattrick and is still Spencers fault while he is the head if I'm reading his other posts correctly.

 

[wapplew]

I could see MS announce Fable 4 this E3 with a CG, but no mention on which studio develop it.

 

[WordsintheWater]

Probably not worth the response, apparently it was Spencers fault on all games during Mattrick and is still Spencers fault while he is the head if I'm reading his other posts correctly.

So it's all Mattrick's fault, Spencer has done nothing since he became the head of Xbox, he just sat there twiddling his thumbs. Assign the blame to Mattrick then also assign the successes as well.

 

[Elios83]

Some yesteryear stuff:

The Getaway 3
The Agency (plus big layoffs)
Deep Rift
Agent
WarDevil
Heavenly Sword 2
Fixer
Eight Days
Coded Arms Assault
Endless Saga

-Pysgnosis Studio murdered
-Zipper Interactive decapitated
-Bigbig Studios annihilated
-Incognito Entertainment mercy killed

--
PS4 era:
Four MMO's + a F2P shooter shutdown (then SOE given the boot and then had layoffs)
Darkside (cancelled Stigs game along with Sony Santa Monica staff purging)
Deep Down (MIA)
Let it Die (MIA)
Rime (MIA)
Silent Hills (RIP)

Many of those games aren't even made by Sony.
Deep Down? Agent? Silent Hill? Do you think Sony is to blame for every cancelled game?
Some simply never existed (like Heavenly Sword 2 which was never approved or announced).
The Santa Monica title was never announced to the public. It was canceled internally.

I agree with you that canceling Getaway 3 and Eight Days sucked during the PS3 era...but the rest..you're trying hard.

 

[WordsintheWater]

I could see MS announce Fable 4 this E3 with a CG, but no mention on which studio develop it.

I wonder if all of those assets used for Fable Legend are lost. How do these things work? Can MS use the assets for another studio to develop a Fable game?

 

[SlipperyFishes]

Time to shut it all down imo. This is all we are seeing now.

Microsoft cancel their games. Spencer is the devil.
Sony cancel more games tho...

 

[RexNovis]

Orders from on-high. You really don't think Mattrick and company gave him the company's goals and said go meet those? It's curious how everything began to change once Spencer and Nadella took on their current roles.

He had to follow his superiors steer in direction. We know since Mattrik left things have changed significantly, with him having complete control. Unless you know anything about the internal makeup of their games division or are Dean Takahasi your making alot of assumptions.

Probably not worth the response, apparently it was Spencers fault on all games during Mattrick and is still Spencers fault while he is the head if I'm reading his other posts correctly.

Y'all are unbelievable. He is the head of the damn division. You can't have it both ways either he has the power to make decisions and has fucked up or he's a powerless talking head with no impact whatsoever on Xbox development. Which is it? Which giant protective cacoon of deniability are we assigning to Phil Spencer today?

 

[WordsintheWater]

Time to shut it all down imo. This is all we are seeing now.

Lol are you incapable of having a discussion that you have to simplify the thread in such hyperbolic ways? No one called Spencer the devil, there's one guy posting lists that aren't valid, and no one said Microsoft cancels all their games.

 

[azertydu91]

Some yesteryear stuff:

The Getaway 3
The Agency (plus big layoffs)
Deep Rift
Agent
WarDevil
Heavenly Sword 2
Fixer
Eight Days
Coded Arms Assault
Endless Saga

-Pysgnosis Studio murdered
-Zipper Interactive decapitated
-Bigbig Studios annihilated
-Incognito Entertainment mercy killed

--
PS4 era:
Four MMO's + a F2P shooter shutdown (SOE given the boot and then had layoffs)
Darkside (cancelled Stigs game along with Sony Santa Monica staff purging)
Deep Down (MIA)
Let it Die (MIA)
Rime (MIA)
Silent Hills (RIP)

Dude do you even know what you're talking about ?
First let me ask you if you know the diference between cancellation and the lack of news.
And then just a big difference is the success of a studio how many crappy games zipper made before being closed?
As well as psygnosis which was close years and years after their good Wipeout playstation 1 era.
Then the most significant Silent Hills ??? Do you read the news ? Do you know what happened to the game and why ?

And that is sony's fault ?

As for the MMO's do you have more informations or at least names?

By the way the branch of sony dealing with The agency SOE has never really been a part of sony and it even recently had been sold.

Deep rift never even went in full production they just had a prototype.

The agent trademark has been renewed and still is in the hand of rockstar

Wardevil Ignition closed London studios so where is sony in that part.

Heavenly sword 2 was a rumor and seems just having morph into Hellblade.

To be honest I can't find any info on The Fixer so I'll conceide this one to you.

Eight days is a bit in a grey area (those of you whom knows a bit amsterdam may experience some good memories) If you consider phantom dust not canceled then why consider Eight days canceled, when in fact we all know bath have been canceled, because technically Eight days and the getaway 3 are on hold, as well as phatom dust.

Coded Arms Assault canceled by Konami

And endless saga was canceled in very early production.

None of it is nowhere near the Fable situation

 

[wapplew]

It's not all bad result, some missing game do get revive down the line.
Like TLG and Nioh, both dead PS3 games now revive on PS4, there is still hope.

 

[Bitch Pudding]

I don't think it's a "recent" trend and I don't think MS will stop IPs and/or studios which they deem neither profitable nor strategic important.

The whole fuss about this situation is based on MS' scarcity of own studios, they are literally running out of fuel here. What happens if Gears 4 bombs, or Forza series (which are not really perfoming anyhow)? Right now Halo is the only horse one can currently savely bet on, and that's not enough.

 

[WordsintheWater]

I don't think it's a "recent" trend and I don't think MS will stop IPs and/or studios which they deem neither profitable nor strategic important.

The whole fuss about this situation is based on MS' scarcity of own studios, they are literally running out of fuel here. What happens if Gears 4 bombs, or Forza series (which are not really perfoming anyhow)? Right now Halo is the only horse one can currently savely bet on, and that's not enough.

Maybe that's why when one of these gets shut down on MS's side it seems more dire to me. They are using 3rd parties to fill the void from what it seems though.

 

[Fox Mulder]

I don't think it's a "recent" trend and I don't think MS will stop IPs and/or studios which they deem neither profitable nor strategic important.

The whole fuss about this situation is based on MS' scarcity of own studios, they are literally running out of fuel here. What happens if Gears 4 bombs, or Forza series (which are not really perfoming anyhow)? Right now Halo is the only horse one can currently savely bet on, and that's not enough.

They made a choice to cut down first party studios way back on the original Xbox so they could let third parties shine. It worked then and on the 360. The ps4 is more powerful, getting better versions of third party games, and even indies have swayed over to Sony.

MS needs to make more first party titles now more than ever.

 

[Head.spawn]

Y'all are unbelievable. He is the head of the damn division. You can't have it both ways either he has the power to make decisions and has fucked up or he's a powerless talking head with no impact whatsoever on Xbox development. Which is it? Which giant protective cacoon of deniability are we assigning to Phil Spencer today?

So, just to be sure, he was responsible then; when all of his ideas likely had to be run through superiors and decisions are made above his head. AND he is responsible now when he makes the decisions.

I agree with the second part. The former though? That makes sense. If you lay the blame on him for what happened before he became the boss, then wouldn't it make sense to point towards the person that position now? Your logic is that it's him in both instances.

Many of those games aren't even made by Sony.
Deep Down? Agent? Silent Hill? Do you think Sony is to blame for every cancelled game?
Some simply never existed (like Heavenly Sword 2 which was never approved or announced).
The Santa Monica title was never announced to the public. It was canceled internally.

I agree with you that canceling Getaway 3 and Eight Days sucked during the PS3 era...but the rest..you're trying hard.

I figured they would have a hand in third party exclusives they secured, but you are right.

SOE stuff still stands, those studios still axed, along with the studio mishandlings as well though.

 

[wapplew]

They made a choice to cut down first party studios way back on the original Xbox so they could let third parties shine. It worked then and on the 360. The ps4 is more powerful, getting better versions of third party games, and even indies have swayed over to Sony.

MS needs to make more first party titles now more than ever.

I think this is MS strategy on first party titles going forward
In-house studios are big IP factory, new IP/spin off/smaller IP all contract outside studio. If those new IP become successful, build a studio around it.

This could lower the cost of maintaining a studio, less risky approach.