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[Man]

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articl...o-clearly-articulate-its-vision-for-pc-gaming

Its goals for UWP are lofty, and the notion of software that's largely able to run cross-platform between PCs, consoles, phones and tablets is an interesting and worthy one - but along the way, it risks losing sight of what makes the PC and Windows ecosystems great in the first place. The PC is a brilliant platform for games not because of the powerful hardware you can put into the box, but because of the openness and freedom of the platform - openness and freedom that encourages innovation, experimentation and creativity, that by its nature permits modding and extension of beloved games by talented fans, and frees users to change or add to their gaming experiences in novel and powerful ways. If the PC platform were to become nothing more than a more expensive games console in a less nicely designed box, it would lose almost all of the magic that makes it into such a vital and dynamic part of the gaming world. Microsoft may have no plans or intention of slaughtering the goose that lays such golden eggs; but if it's going to keep hanging around the barn with a meat cleaver in its hands, it needs to start explaining itself much more clearly, directly and honestly than it has been up until now.

Personally I think it's pretty crystal clear where things are going official explanation or not. This is the Android/Google Play Store model repeated where options are available but overall irrelevant and/or obfuscated. The apps released through Windows Store severely limited and locked. I agree with the article in that the road to this future is much shorter then some may think.

Related thread: Tim Sweeney:MS wants to monopolise games development on PC–and we must fight it

 

[StealthPandemic]

Oh Microsoft, your like the child who wants something but doesn't specify what.

 

[Aztechnology]

Good to see these articles popping up all over. We need more and more pressure. People expect a clear vision from Microsoft and answers about how they plan to address both gamers and developers concerns when it comes to the PC platform.

 

[Maintenance]

Good, more spotlight.

 

[plasmawave]

MS likes to make vague ass comments only to later clarify it.
It's been like that for this whole new generation.

 

[Lilalaunebaer]

Plenty clear enough to me. No need to clarify. Instead fix the shit system that is UWA and UWP or fuck off.

Same thing as with the original Xbone plans. Message was clear as day.

 

[cireza]

Oh Microsoft, your like the child who wants something but doesn't specify what.

"Do you want this or that ?"

"Yes."

 

[jelly]

Build is going to be interesting. I honestly don't think Microsoft intended to go the open direction but now the pressure is on them to explain their plans in detail so are they going to stick to their guns with a little lip service and hope nobody notices or leave devs happy with concrete changes.

 

[1st Course]

Microsoft should just stay away from PC gaming.

 

[geordiemp]

I am a console guy, I like to play using controllers against others using controllers with everybody having an equal playing field (frame rate, FOV etc etc).

That why I like consoles. The MS API is kinda appealing to a console gamer (just my view)....

Still, agree with the article, people need to know what the direction is, its so confusing.

 

[Caipirinha]

The vaguery is deliberate, their plan is to wind down the Xbox division and ramp up this UWP campaign to monetise PC gaming as much as possible and muscle out Steam.

Those are the two pillars of the plan; leave console gaming, monopolise PC gaming via. already established Windows monopoly - and both need to be obfuscated with vague PR messages and kool aid in order to avoid bad press.

Simples.

 

[funkystudent]

Microsoft gaming always seems to have a change fo direction every few years. This recent one is just different because it seems like its being forced by their position in the market.


MS's E3 show should be real enlightening for the new direction.

 

[MilkyJoe]

The vaguery is deliberate, their plan is to wind down the Xbox division and ramp up this UWP campaign to monetise PC gaming as much as possible and muscle out Steam.

Those are the two pillars of the plan; leave console gaming, monopolise PC gaming via. already established Windows monopoly - and both need to be obfuscated with vague PR messages and kool aid in order to avoid bad press.

Simples.

And they announce that by announcing more frequent console releases

 

[Man]

MS's E3 show should be real enlightening for the new direction.

Likely a Xbox Two announcement built for UWP.
And Halo 5 Deluxe for UWP.

 

[Caipirinha]

And they announce that by announcing more frequent console releases

Do you consider Steam boxes to be consoles?

Microsoft gaming always seems to have a change fo direction every few years. This recent one is just different because it seems like its being forced by their position in the market.


MS's E3 show should be real enlightening for the new direction.

Don't underestimate the difference between the Ballmer and the Nadella eras, they are as different as it gets when it comes to CEO execs. The entire company has changed direction radically, and the impact on the Xbox division will be greater than any change within the Ballmer era.

Shareholders are sick of losing money, they want that Windows and productivity monopoly from the 90s back. Gaming plays almost no role in that.

 

[Alx]

GDC starts in a few days, I guess it would be the right moment for them to give more insight on their plans... (or at least for devs/journalists to pressure them for it).

 

[Genio88]

That's true, Microsoft need to be more clear about what they want to do, i'm ok with them willing to push their Windows 10 store with their exclusives, though the store isn't actually ready to become a gaming store, will they improve it beyond just little things like vsync etc? Have they decided to go with all Xbox One exclusives on PC too? Will they partner with Steam somehow? What's the feature of Xbox console in all this? They need to take a position and explain it well to consumers

 

[krang]

Microsoft gaming always seems to have a change fo direction every few years. This recent one is just different because it seems like its being forced by their position in the market.

MS's E3 show should be real enlightening for the new direction.

E3 is about pretty game trailer willy-waving. It's not the place - and largely not the audience for such information.

//build and GDC are more appropriate.

 

[ElBoxyBrown]

Do you consider Steam boxes to be consoles?

To the average consumer it will be.

 

[Man-is-Obsolete]

"Do you want this or that ?"

"Yes."

Oh my, my wife is guilty of this a lot. Drives me nuts, but I love her for it at the same time.

OT: I said in the NPD thread that their move to MAU for months and now Windows 10 in NPD PR, making their games more easily available on W10, and talking making the X1 essentially a yearly computer release has all pointed to they are exiting the console business and are trying to discover a way to entice people to game on W10 instead. They even get their digital future that way as well.

Basically no one should buy a X1 right now because at the moment MS is telling you to buy a better PC instead.

 

[Outrun]

Microsoft should just stay away from PC gaming.

Or you could just not buy into their Windows Store...

Vote with your wallet. However, many want MS's Xbox games in the way that they want it...

 

[LordRaptor]

I am a console guy, I like to play using controllers against others using controllers with everybody having an equal playing field (frame rate, FOV etc etc).

That why I like consoles. The MS API is kinda appealing to a console gamer (just my view)....

If that's what you want, then you already have what you want. It's a console.
There's no need to try and cram that down the throats of the people who don't want that.

 

[gamz]

Or you could just not buy into their Windows Store...

Vote with your wallet. However, many want MS's Xbox games in the way that they want it...

Pretty much. Even with the drivers issues Gears is still getting favorable reviews of close to 4 stars in the gen consensus in the store, Most people are enjoying it and it'll only get better. *shrugs*

 

[Caipirinha]

To the average consumer it will be.

Yeah, just like Steam boxes... right...

Why bother learning from history? "It'll be different this time".

 

[ElBoxyBrown]

Yeah, just like Steam boxes... right...

Why bother learning from history? "It'll be different this time".

If something that is the equivalent to a Steam box is Microsoft's next move in gaming they are gonna market it as if it's the next Xbox instead of throwing it out their in the public with no awareness. It will appeal to the Xbox gamers that can't afford to upgrade a PC.

 

[a.wd]

There is a lot of FUD, considering we know they are not deprecating win32, Steam isn't going away, windows will stay open and as a result there will just be another store where they will sell cross-platform and curated applications.

Do people really think that Microsoft would go against their own interests to mess with people who game on PC?

 

[gamz]

There is a lot of FUD, considering we know they are not deprecating win32, Steam isn't going away, windows will stay open and as a result there will just be another store where they will sell cross-platform and curated applications.

Do people really think that Microsoft would go against their own interests to mess with people who game on PC?

Of course not.

 

[funkystudent]

E3 is about pretty game trailer willy-waving. It's not the place - and largely not the audience for such information.

//build and GDC are more appropriate.

I expect a lot of technical stuff at GDC and Build where as E3 will be actual products that use it.

Plus I wonder if NX will pressure them a little. Not expecting Xbox 1.1 hardware or anything but just some kind of rabbit out of the hat to get some buzz because it will be real easy for new hardware to get all the headlines. Maybe a Slim and cheap XB1?



Huh. Speaking of Steamboxes....

I wonder what if MS could make a Microsoft branded performance / gaming desktop PC. A desktop answer to their surface line if you will. Their Mac Pro.

The pre build gaming PC market is kind of a mess so I bet they could get in their and do something just like they did with Surface. It would be a tough battle against the "just build it yourself" crowd though.

 

[Synth]

Do you consider Steam boxes to be consoles?

Somewhat. The main difference I see between a Steambox and a typical console is that with the Steambox you're free to simply stop using SteamOS and switch it out for Windows 10 if you like. If a Steambox booted directly into SteamOS, and there was no simply way for the consumer to alter this, thus restricting them to only what is provided through Steam (and works on linux), then I believe there would be no meaningful differentiation to be made between a Steambox and an XB1/PS4/WiiU.

So if the next MS console/box/whatever runs UWP games via a closed environment ala Windows RT, tying the user to the Xbox Live ecosystem... then I don't see any meaningful differentiations between it, and the current batch of consoles. We already knew the XB1 was going to run Windows 10 apps from before it was even revealed, this has never put the question of whether or not the machine counts as a "console" in doubt, and so I don't see why this would be the case for the next machine, unless the Windows 10 I run on my desktop, and the Windows 10 that runs on my Xbox are identical, and I can simply remove Windows should I feel like it. This isn't a situation I'm expecting to see happen, and so I would still say that MS are selling a console.

 

[AncientDiety]

Or you could just not buy into their Windows Store...

Vote with your wallet. However, many want MS's Xbox games in the way that they want it...

Many is relative. A few xbox exclusives a year on win 10 store will sell low numbers . MS first party games have little audience on pc. Gears and Halo have been on pc before to paltry sales. People are overstating the impact this woll have.

 

[Chris1]

Microsoft needs to clarify a lot of things not just UWP/PC gaming, their messaging is atrocious on a whole. You would think they would learn from 2013 to be clear but nope, I actually think it's gotten worse.

 

[Man]

The main difference I see between a Steambox and a typical console is that with the Steambox you're free to simply stop using SteamOS and switch it out for Windows 10 if you like. If a Steambox booted directly into SteamOS, and there was no simply way for the consumer to alter this, thus restricting them to only what is provided through Steam (and works on linux), then I believe there would be no meaningful differentiation to be made between a Steambox and an XB1/PS4/WiiU.

The meaningful differences would be:
- Steambox is a PC hardware wise. It's not a fixed platform as there's a variety of Steam boxes out there. Developers will have to take this into account. Software performance is not guaranteed.
- It will be hard to compete with consoles on a price/perfomance ratio in the first three-five years.
- Controller input is not standardized as it is a shared environment with desktop PC.
- Steam OS allows variables like modding, third-party add-on tools etc.

 

[Nokterian]

Good, more spotlight.

Indeed microsoft needs to wake up.

 

[AncientDiety]

Microsoft needs to clarify a lot of things not just UWP/PC gaming, their messaging is atrocious on a whole. You would think they would learn from 2013 to be clear but nope, I actually think it's gotten worse.

Some of the vagueness is intentional imo. Just like their drm plans with x1.

 

[Rymuth]

And they announce that by announcing more frequent console releases

Because MS is known for following through with their annoucments

 

[jabberwocker]

People that are freaking out over this are overreacting. If ms wants to handicap their games thats fine. It wont last people will go to steam. Now can we stop having the same topic posted five times a day.

 

[Man-is-Obsolete]

Many is relative. A few xbox exclusives a year on win 10 store will sell low numbers . MS first party games have little audience on pc. Gears and Halo have been on pc before to paltry sales. People are overstating the impact this woll have.

Well the impact is if you talk about upgrades to hardware and move your current games to PC as well, it makes you current potential buyers question if buying a X1 now is a good idea. You don't say to people we want to offer more frequent HW improvements then go silent. There are already some in the industry expecting they announce new HW improvements at E3 now.

 

[AncientDiety]

Well the impact is if you talk about upgrades to hardware and move your current games to PC as well, it makes you current potential buyers question if buying a X1 now is a good idea. You don't say to people we want to offer more frequent HW improvements then go silent. There are already some in the industry expecting they announce new HW improvements at E3 now.

People expecting new hw at e3 have their head on the clouds. Phil said in the future they may. They don't know what they ate doing at this point people are taking 1 quote and running wild. They are throwing shit against the wall see what sticks. MS has a history of saying things and not doing them.

 

[Man-is-Obsolete]

People expecting new hw at e3 have their head on the clouds. Phil said in the future they may. They don't know what they ate doing at this point people are taking 1 quote and running wild. They are throwing shit against the wall see what sticks. MS has a history of saying things and not doing them.

That's a problem though. It's bad messaging and in today's climate that message spreads fast. Even if it is incorrect. Currently all we know is MS is focusing more on W10 integration and said they would like to offer more frequent HW improvements. So from the horses mouth it sounds like the current X1 is being de-emphasized.

 

[wapplew]

You guys need to stop ruining people that want closed Windows platform.

 

[singhr1]

I love one-sided articles that don't demonstrate both sides of the argument effectively!

Like this:

Presently, you can download a Win32-based game or application from anywhere you like and run it on your Windows 10 PC without difficulty.

Is bullshit. There are many instances of old Win32 programs that lose compatibility or require specific plugins or software required to run successfully. They then install deep into your system files that are never truly discarded. I know Steam doesn't necessarily have this problem but UWA are not just games, they are trying to get rid of the bullshit so many shitty develops put into their apps when you install them from their websites. There are multiple layers to this argument that this article ignores and articles like from ArsTechnica does much better.

That's a problem though. It's bad messaging and in today's climate that message spreads fast. Even if it is incorrect. Currently all we know is MS is focusing more on W10 integration and said they would like to offer more frequent HW improvements. So from the horses mouth it sounds like the current X1 is being de-emphasized.

All Phil said was this was his vision. "more iteration on hardware capability" could mean anything at this point, it's not his fault people read waaay too into his words (because he's probably not that sure what would fit the market yet either).

 

[RurouniZel]

They know what they want. They're just desperately trying to avoid *saying* it so that they can claim later "We never *said* we weren't going to do that!" or some such. It's basically a liability thing.

 

[Synth]

The meaningful differences would be:
- Steambox is a PC hardware wise. It's not a fixed platform as there's a variety of Steam boxes out there. Developers will have to take this into account. Software performance is not guaranteed.
- It will be hard to compete with consoles on a price/perfomance ratio in the first three-five years.

Well, technically all the consoles are PCs hardware-wise, they're just individual configurations of one that developers target. It's not even as though consoles have never had different configurations that affect software either (N64 expansion, Xbox 360 arcade, etc). If there's two tiers of Xbox One (similarly to the three proposed tiers of Steam machines initially) then the software can target each in much the same way they target both a PS4 and an XB1. Software performance is never guaranteed regardless... just look at some of the existing ports between consoles (Bayonetta, Skyrim, Resident Evil Revelations 2 etc).

Price/performance obviously depends on what they put into the machines, and what they're model is to possibly subsidise it (such as the "console" requiring an XBLG for multiplayer, which disappears if it actually becomes a PC). When you take out the Windows license costs, there's really not much in a price/performance comparison between a PC and a console this generation, and in the case of a 1.5 mid-gen step, there probably wouldn't even be anything to compare it to (unless Nintendo wants to get competitive in hardware again for a change).

Basically the main point I'm stuck on here, is that by making the consumer box a "PC", they'd be changing pretty much nothing about the current Xbox scenario except giving the option for the owner of the box to take their business elsewhere... to buy their games from Steam, from PSNow, from EA Origin.. all the while removing the recurring XBL revenue. I don't see how it makes any business sense at all. The common argument is that MS plans to lock Windows down... so why would they start such a push by opening the one secure environment that they currently have, when there's zero functional requirement in order to run UWAs or have hardware iterations?

EDIT:

- Controller input is not standardized as it is a shared environment with desktop PC.
- Steam OS allows variables like modding, third-party add-on tools etc.

Both of these aren't really console/PC differentiators. Both can apply to a console (and hardware-wise the PS3 kinda did this), and neither would probably be true for an Xbox equivalent (it's not even true for the games running on desktop right now).

 

[ghostjoke]

People that are freaking out over this are overreacting. If ms wants to handicap their games thats fine. It wont last people will go to steam. Now can we stop having the same topic posted five times a day.

There is an option beyond it failing or it succeeding, it's Microsoft listening to feedback and backlash and making changes that accommodate the worries people have. The store and UWP are not inherently bad, only what has been presented so far. History says Microsoft will fuck it up royally, but right now there is a chance for the PC market to benefit from it, so articles that question the future with UWP or want more information are exactly what is needed right now. And I say this as someone with almost 0% faith in this being a positive in the grand scheme of things.

 

[geordiemp]

If that's what you want, then you already have what you want. It's a console.
There's no need to try and cram that down the throats of the people who don't want that.

I do, I have 2 ps4. However, can I not express my opinion that I would be interested in a super Xbox ?

I am not cramming anything, although I appreciate a super Xbox is not what allot on here want, but can you not accept it would be desirable by some ?

 

[Devilgunman]

I think the message is clear as day: MS is moving their video game business to where the biggest installed base is. Also, I disagreed with the article. I never give a damn about modding or openness of PC. I choose gaming on PC because the games look better and I can buy games for cheap. If Win10 store can provide these 2 aspects, I don't mind console-like limitation that UWP enforcing.

 

[LordRaptor]

If a Steambox booted directly into SteamOS, and there was no simply way for the consumer to alter this, thus restricting them to only what is provided through Steam (and works on linux), then I believe there would be no meaningful differentiation to be made between a Steambox and an XB1/PS4/WiiU.

Ironically the only reason that a modern purchased from OEM PCs do not actually do this with Windows being the only OS that can be installed on them, is because certain Linux distributors paid money to MS to get a UEFI key.
They got a lot of shit for that from the Open Source community for capitulating to typical MS bullshit, but if they hadn't Win 8 and Win 10 machines that you did not build yourself would be literally locked to Windows forever.

I do, I have 2 ps4. However, can I not express my opinion that I would be interested in a super Xbox ?

Sure, just don't expect people following the argument and issues involved to care about what you want.
GFWL was a "super Xbox" that didn't require an attempt to leverage a monopoly and enforce a walled garden.

 

[JaggedSac]

It will certainly be interesting from a console perspective to buy a new box every couple years, plug in an external hard drive and have an entire games library ready to go instantly, lol. They will need to craft a better games and app UI though, the two row thing isnt cutting it, lol.

 

[LewieP]

I think the message is clear as day: MS is moving their video game business to where the biggest installed base is. Also, I disagreed with the article. I never give a damn about modding or openness of PC. I choose gaming on PC because the games look better and I can buy games for cheap. If Win10 store can provide these 2 aspects, I don't mind console-like limitation that UWP enforcing.

Microsoft are already charging more for the same games on the Windows App store than they are elsewhere.

Reducing competition is likely to increase prices. A world where there is only one store from which to buy PC games is a world where the cost of PC gaming increases.

 

[AncientDiety]

Decades if being vague and making poor decisions and backing out on a whim. ....yet people still give ms the benefit of the doubt . I don't get it.