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[mugurumakensei]

Ok, i understand the logic. So in 2021 where PS5 release, what happen to PS4.5 which only at year 3?

Developers have the choice of making a PS4 title that can be enhanced on PS5 by querying HW capability, or they can release a game that's PS5 only(targeting the PS5 OS ABI). However, they aren't forced to abandon the old system. The techniques to query hw feature set will now have been part of Sony's SDK since PS4.5 so developers will have gotten used to it.

 

[Saty]

Pretty much. Part of the reason I buy consoles is for the level playing field, I was hoping Sony would continue with their traditional console module after MS announced their plans. This is bullshit and I'm not sure if I want to be apart of consoles if this is the route they are going.

Why do you care about 'level playing field' in SP games? For Multiplayer, performance will be capped at what the the current PS4 can handle. There is no problem.

 

[demigod]

But wasnt that the case in the previous generations?

Not at the start of last gen no. The PS4's GPU was good while the 360's GPU was a beast.

 

[wapplew]

Developers have the choice of making a PS4 title that can be enhanced on PS5 by querying HW capability, or they can release a game that's PS5 only(targeting the PS5 OS ABI). However, they aren't forced to abandon the old system. The techniques to query hw feature set will now have been part of Sony's SDK since PS4.5 so developers will have gotten used to it.

So, PS4.5 owner is fuck after 3 years?

 

[GamerMax73]

Well, this is more like correcting back to the normal 5 year generational cycle rather than adapting an iPad model.

Not really, ideally we're talking backwards compatible minor CPU/GPU/RAM boosts every 2-3 years. Maybe 1 boost every 5 years for a '10-year' generation, but the point is rolling hardware rather than a fresh start every 5-years.

Because Blu-ray doesn't support 4k resolution.

You're thinking of either BluRay movie standards and/or HDMI output standards. I'm thinking of computer data burned to a disc, possibly even 100Gb triple or quad layered. It'll support 4k no prob.

I don't understand, what's so wrong about traditional console generation? Why IPad model have to be the only way to go?
Sure, every generation will start from zero install base, but developer could always do cross gen port if they feel the need as usual.

Technology moves at too great a speed. PS4 and XB1 where both decried as under powered at launch, 5-years down the line they'll be dinosaurs. Whatever happens we're not in a 7-8yr generation this time. I think they learned the folley of overlong generations last time.

 

[Serviam]

That's the point. Why do we need PS4.5? A PS5 in 2018/2019 will do full BC just fine, without any half gen shit too, no one pissed.

What is the point of a PS5? Would you not rather have a 4.5 with the power of 5, plays all your games, same library and user base. Developers know they can lean on the existing user base and not having to take risks with games only selling to the first wave of adaptors. Also, you would not have to get the new console day1 since your old console can play the new games albeit at a lower res and maybe with less sparkles. You can still play online with your friends regardless of which model they have. Finally no one gets left behing because of not being able to afford the new generation day1.

I do not understand the negativity around this. No one is taking away your games. You can still play the new ones for many years (assuming it will work like phones and their games/apps).

First people whine about the current generation of consoles being to weak. Now when there is a posibillity to get more powerful revisions people whine about that instead!?

If there are plans for an upgraded version every 3 years and forward compatibility would reach only one upgrade cycle, it would be easy to hide non compatible games on PSN/XBL. The one thing I can see becoming difficult is telling parents at the brick and mortar store which revision their kids have and if their console can play the newest game or not.

Anyways, Im 35, have the money for upgraded consoles and I am more then willing to pay for it. I say bring it on!

 

[mugurumakensei]

Why do you care about 'level playing field' in SP games? For Multiplayer, performance will be capped at what the the current PS4 can handle. There is no problem.

And even with MP, the amount of lag introduced by half frame rate is substantially less than network lag differences.

 

[icespide]

So is the PS4

I see what you're trying to say but. smartphone is used a lot more by a lot more people. to most people it's the most important device in their life

 

[gcubed]

I mean they are both just poor PCs anyway. Maybe they can become a bit better PCs. Or we can all move to steam machines

 

[FLAguy954]

Why do you care about 'level playing field' in SP games? For Multiplayer, performance will be capped at what the the current PS4 can handle. There is no problem.

And even with MP, the amount of lag introduced by half frame rate is substantially less than network lag differences.

This. The 'even playing field' argument does not hold up.

 

[wapplew]

What is the point of a PS5? Would you not rather have a 4.5 with the power of 5, plays all your games, same library and user base. Developers know they can lean on the existing user base and not having to take risks with games only selling to the first wave of adaptors. Also, you would not have to get the new console day1 since your old console can play the new games albeit at a lower res and maybe with less sparkles. You can still play online with your friends regardless of which model they have. Finally no one gets left behing because of not being able to afford the new generation day1.

I do not understand the negativity around this. No one is taking away your games. You can still play the new ones for many years (assuming it will work like phones and their games/apps).

First people whine about the current generation of consoles being to weak. Now when there is a posibillity to get more powerful revisions people whine about that instead!?

If there are plans for an upgraded version every 3 years and forward compatibility would reach only one upgrade cycle, it would be easy to hide non compatible games on PSN/XBL. The one thing I can see becoming difficult is telling parents at the brick and mortar store which revision their kids have and if their console can play the newest game or not.

Anyways, Im 35, have the money for upgraded consoles and I am more then willing to pay for it. I say bring it on!

Yea, I would rather take PS5. Because forcing dev to make cross gen game sucks, and I hate the idea of my hardware do not reach full potential.

 

[mugurumakensei]

So, PS4.5 owner is fuck after 3 years?

No? Not every PS5 title will need the new OS features, PS VR 2.0, full power of the PS5, etc... So devs can release PS4.5 compatible titles.

 

[mrklaw]

Make every games cross gen is the bigger held back for me.

Yeah I was just mentioning that in the other thread. It could relegate a ps4.5 to just having shinier graphics and not introducing anything fundamentally new because it has to stil run on the lower end machine.

But I hope that is mitigated by the PC engine base they will probably be sharing.

 

[RPGCrazied]

They better not make exclusive games for it. I don't care about 4k, so hopefully the games can run on a regular PS4.

 

[RaijinFY]

I guess a new pricing would become something like:
Year 0: Console A - $399 (launch)
Year 1: Console A - $399
Year 2: Console A - $349
Year 3: Console A - $299 / Console B - $399
Year 4: Console A - $249 / Console B - $399
Year 5: Console A - $199 / Console B - $349
Year 6: Console A - $149 / Console B - $299 / Console C - $399
Year 7: Console B - $249 / Console C - $399
Year 8: Console B - $199 / Console C - $349
Year 9: Console B - $149 / Console C - $299 / Console D - $399
...

One thing is sure, Console A won't reach the $149... ever. Even the $199 mark will b very difficult. $249 will be most likely the lowest price you will get from the PS4.

 

[wapplew]

No? Not every PS5 title will need the new OS features, PS VR 2.0, full power of the PS5, etc... So devs can release PS4.5 compatible titles.

But they can't play every PS5 games right?

 

[Chris1]

Why do you care about 'level playing field' in SP games? For Multiplayer, performance will be capped at what the the current PS4 can handle. There is no problem.

Source?

 

[RaijinFY]

Yea, I would rather take PS5. Because forcing dev to make cross gen game sucks, and I hate the idea of my hardware do not reach full potential.

That period is already over guys.

 

[TM94]

Just seen Mark Cerny trade in his PS4 at gamestop

 

[TheSinkingKnight]

I don't even want to play or buy games now on my PS4.

 

[kswiston]

Except the original Xbox lasted 4 years, and Nintendo's and Sega's systems all kept at around a 5 year cycle. And with the exception of the Xbox One and PS4, many previous consoles tended to be announced and in the public eye for two or more years (albeit usually via code-names rather than their final name). There were rumors about the PS3 as early as 2004 and early 2005, and other systems also had executives talking about the features of their yet-to-be named system years before their eventual release date.

Last gen was a fluke, both HD system had mid-gen reboots (Kinect, major PS3 rebranding) that made them viable for much longer than they normally would have been.

The original Xbox was a failure. PS4 is the market leading system.

Nintendo gradually shrunk the delay between their Japanese and North American console launches, which made the generations seem a bit shorter than they were, but their most successful consoles had longer generations.

FC/NES to SFC/SNES was over 7 years
SFC/SNES to N64 was a few months shy of 6 years
N64 to Gamecube to Wii were 5 year transitions, but N64/Gamecube weren't exactly setting the world on fire
Wii to Wii U was 6 years. Wii U to NX will be back to a shorter 4-5 year cycle since the Wii U flopped.


Sony isn't going to sit on a PS4.5 for very long as it will hurt the sales momentum of their current model. There is a difference between better hardware that plays the same games and new hardware that plays new games. If an half generation update gets officially announced, I would expect to see it in less than a year from that announcement.

 

[Mr Swine]

So, PS4.5 owner is fuck after 3 years?

Doesn't this apply to PS4 owners as well that buy their console a year or two before the PS5 gets released? I really don't see the problem here

 

[Sidewinder]

Just seen Mark Cerny trade in his PS4 at gamestop

I'm gonna brake my bathtub into pieces and throw it out of the window, why did you betray us Cerny?

 

[texhnolyze]

All I know is Digital Foundry is going to need a lot more employees.

Compare:

PS4
XboxOne
NX
PS4.5
XboxTwo
PC Ultra Settings
PC Low Settings

The reviews are gonna take an hour.

This is what I had in mind as well.

Moreover, more optimizations work for developers. It's gonna be a long, bumpy road ahead for them.

 

[Dinky Dino]

I mean they are both just poor PCs anyway. Maybe they can become a bit better PCs. Or we can all move to steam machines

Steam machines have the disadvantage of linux not running every game. Honestly I'd say a windows 10 machine is more plausible but MS wants a locked down os on their gaming machines like sony does most likely so that's not happening..they won't give up the online subs and we'll see another xbox.

So really nothing changes other than you skip the online fee on pc and the fact that you'll be seeing xbox games on pc and vice versa like perhaps games such as xcom 2 and pillars on the xbox since its the same os and system and would require little to no effort in sharing the games for devs. PSx will run it's own operating system solo.

To me, they're both now locked down pcs with custom oses vs a more open pc. In the ideal world the open platform would be on top so you can simply just buy what you want if they're going the upgrade route. I always gave consoles a plus because you knew you'd be running any game for a very long time even if it wasn't ideal.

To be perfectly honest, I'd rather there be an OS where all of them dumped their games but no one wants to give up that 30% cut from selling on their platform.

Like on tvs you can just buy one and then pay for the content you want to watch not buy specific brands that let you tune in on hbo and the such. I really wish it was the same for games because us consumers would benefit a lot if we simply just bought into one of the services especially now since they might do the upgrade thing. Course it's too much competition for companies which is why they prefer proprietary hardware.

 

[J-Skee]

Would they make an attachment for the original PS4 that would help achieve this power as well?

 

[hwy_61]

Would they make an attachment for the original PS4 that would help achieve this power as well?

What like the 32x? I don't think that would end well for Sony...

 

[GamerMax73]

Moreover, more optimizations work for developers. It's gonna be a long, bumpy road ahead for them.

I'm not a dev but...

For multiplats, how would it be different from supporting XB1@900p and PS4@1080p, or indeed PC development - Supporting GTX6/7/8/900 AMD R5/6/7/8, Intel i3/4/5, AMD FX/A8/A10, etc.

Got to be easier on a iPadified console base...

assets A+resolution X for 2013 console
assets B+resolution Y for 2017 console
assets C+resolution Z for 2021 console

A game released in 2023 might only support the 2017 and 2021 editions and be forward compatible with the 2025 console. All games from 2013 should be playable on the 2025 console when its released.

As a consumer I might skip 2017 and buy 2021, skip 2025 and buy 2029. Knowing that all games are forward/backwards compatible accordingly.

 

[Mass_Pincup]

And people on PC's have been getting along fine with it for decades. Don't make it bigger than what it is.

Because PC players can tweak the graphical settings how they want to.

That's not possible on consoles.

 

[onQ123]

So why we need this PS4.5 just 3 years in?

You don't need the PS4.5 but if you have a 4K TV & want a console that will look good on it why should you be left out? If Sony don't upgrade the PS4 to support 4K the people with 4K TVs will start to get FireTV , NVIDIA Shield & other multimedia devices that's staying up to date with new hardware.

 

[Saty]

Source?

Common sense. If what players want is even playing field then that's what the devs would do to make it so. Or risk their MP community dying.

 

[FantasticMrSnake]

I'm not a dev but...

For multiplats, how would it be different from supporting XB1@900p and PS4@1080p, or indeed PC development - Supporting GTX6/7/8/900 AMD R5/6/7/8, Intel i3/4/5, AMD FX/A8/A10, etc.

Got to be easier on a iPadified console base...

assets A+resolution X for 2013 console
assets B+resolution Y for 2017 console
assets C+resolution Z for 2021 console

A game released in 2023 might only support the 2017 and 2021 editions and be forward compatible with the 2025 console. All games from 2013 should be playable on the 2025 console when its released.

As a consumer I might skip 2017 and buy 2021, skip 2025 and buy 2029. Knowing that all games are forward/backwards compatible accordingly.

Textures are not the only thing that held back games.
If you have to change the 3d models, that's almost twice the work for every console for example.
And there are thing that even in low will run at 10fps in older systems or don't run at all.

 

[Midn1ght]

Because PC players can tweak the graphical settings how they want to.

That's not possible on consoles.

You are also keeping your entire library with you when you upgrade on PC, that remain to be seen on modern consoles.

 

[wapplew]

You don't need the PS4.5 but if you have a 4K TV & want a console that will look good on it why should you be left out? If Sony don't upgrade the PS4 to support 4K the people with 4K TVs will start to get FireTV , NVIDIA Shield & other multimedia devices that's staying up to date with new hardware.

So make a PS4 that support 4K video output without changing the APU, like a slim?

 

[Trago]

I hope this means that there will be greater focus on making the online and system better, instead of employing the very outdated method of doing a hard fuckin' reset.

Just one PlayStation catalog.


It's kinda crazy that the console business model has pretty much remained the same almost since the beginning.

Good on Sony, Microsoft, and soon Nintendo for making that change.

 

[Guymelef]

With all this 4K gaming I'm starting to think it's simply a better upscaler chip for native 4K tvs to make 1080p games look a bit better with the new model.

 

[Asd202]

So is the PS4

This must be US thing which is less than 1/3 of total PS4 sales.

 

[Killer Queen]

What like the 32x? I don't think that would end well for Sony...

Would be better than making all the other adopters buy an entirely new console for better performance and 60fps.

 

[hwy_61]

Would be better than making all the other adopters buy an entirely new console for better performance and 60fps.

True, but can you imagine the clusterfuck on pitching this to the general audience? It would be DOA.

 

[MastaKilla]

If this is true then I see no reason not to just jump into PC gaming and upgrade whenever I want as opposed to being forced to every 2 years.

This move sucks.

 

[kswiston]

With all this 4K gaming I'm starting to think it's simply a better upscaler chip for native 4K tvs to make 1080p games look a bit better with the new model.

which would be fine. Sort of similar to the microsoft phasing in HDMI output in their 360s.

 

[pahamrick]

I don't really have an opinion one way or the other on this yet, but my main feeling is if they (Sony and/or Microsoft) take this approach and start doing it, heaven help the poor folks working in retail / retail support.

 

[Killer Queen]

True, but can you imagine the clusterfuck on pitching this to the general audience? It would be DOA.

I think it would depend on price, I can see plenty of people in the general audience being upset with a ps4.5 as it is, having no way to have parity between the two models would only make the backlash worse. I wouldn't mind buying a $200 attachment over a $400 console when my current console is in good condition and the console has been out for little over 2 years.

 

[NoMoreTrolls]

Not a fan of this idea at all. I likely won't buy new consoles at launch anymore with these rumors coming from both MS and Sony... Launch titles suck, and to date the only title I'd have been missing out on is Bloodborne. Had I known there would be a revision I would have waited for bbs release to buy it and saved some money.

Now we're also going to get all of our exposure to new games (in trailers, conferences, previews) in ps4.5 mode so we won't know what to expect for the old console version anymore.

 

[Bad_Boy]

Some of yall are trippin.

I dont see one negative out of this other than confusing the casuals.

 

[Killer Queen]

Some of yall are trippin.

I dont see one negative out of this other than confusing the casuals.

Read through the 100 pages or so and maybe you'll understand why some people including myself would be reasonably upset.

 

[timmyp53]

Well I'm definitely in.

 

[mckmas8808]

I'm really interested in these new plans from Sony and Microsoft, I just don't know how successful they can be.

I HATE these plans.

 

[KAL2006]

PS4.5 being the new PSOne, PS Two, Slim PS3 I would be happy with this and it would make me wanna upgrade. By year 4 in the PS4s life an average PC multuplatform game would look way better. They is nothing wrong with having a PS4.5 as a halfway point for the gen to bring some new momentum just as long as PS4 is for Ard compatible with all the games. People who hate this idea can continue to stick with PS4 until PS5 comes out. Peiple who have the money and want the latest tech but want to stick to console would not mind upgrading every 4 years.

I personally 4 years is a good balance for a refresh in hardware. Isn't that when we got PS3 Slim.

 

[Aceofspades]

Doesn't this nullify Consoles advantages as closed system?

I mean devs won't utilize PS4.5 capabilities to the fullest so original PS4 would be able to play all games.

I really don't like the sound of this, Sony should wait full generation for PS4 then go all out with PS5.