I believe you. Just trying to start a discussion. Another bs poster I guess.I cannot stress enough how bullshit the idea of back porting Android features to a previous version of the OS is.
The company that fired Alison Rapp is not going to turn Link into a woman. The company that said Peach's skirt is too hard to program for NSMBWii is not going to turn Link into a woman.
They both run x86_64 architectures from AMD.What is x86 and what does the ps4 and bone run?
This was an obvious joke, Peach was in plenty of Wii games.
I know, its just that I'm doing some Android development and the idea of it is blowing NY mind.The android rumor debunked by Nintendo always irked me because they never comment on rumor or speculation but made an exception for that one. Just like they denied the 3DS XL from that Nikkei report and then two months later it launched, or denying Wii U production was ending but then saying it would be produced at least until the end of the quarter lol.
I believe you. Just trying to start a discussion. Another bs poster I guess.
What is x86 and what does the ps4 and bone run?
I understand where you're coming from, but whether or not it's a consumer product doesn't matter if it's actually running on the console. Or are you insinuating they ran that on an enthusiast level PC like some of those other devs tend to when showing off games?Naw! That would be everything but fair, since it isn't from an actual product available for purchase. It's not different than EA, Guerrilla, Ubi or Gearbox showing in game footage from an unreleased project. I'll gladly change my stance once they have a consumer product.
Knowledge of certification standards for Microsoft (TCR compliance), Sony (TRC compliance), or Nintendo (Lot Check).
I understand where you're coming from, but whether or not it's a consumer product doesn't matter if it's actually running on the console. Or are you insinuating they ran that on an enthusiast level PC like some of those other devs tend to when showing off games?
It's likely the latter which is wet I didn't link it lol.Huh, look at this, Monolith (western) has a QA job post, and it says:
https://careers.timewarner.com/tgwebhost/jobdetails.aspx?partnerid=391&siteid=36&jobid=752955
This was found by Reddit:
https://www.reddit.com/r/NintendoNX/comments/4dtwz9/monolith_productions_is_possibly_making_a_game/
Now only two possibilities here; they're working on NX, or they're happy with Nintendo lot check experience so that the person can just move on to Sony and MS stuff easily. Likely the latter, but you never know.
Huh, look at this, Monolith (western) has a QA job post, and it says:
https://careers.timewarner.com/tgwebhost/jobdetails.aspx?partnerid=391&siteid=36&jobid=752955
This was found by Reddit:
https://www.reddit.com/r/NintendoNX/comments/4dtwz9/monolith_productions_is_possibly_making_a_game/
Now only two possibilities here; they're working on NX, or they're happy with Nintendo lot check experience so that the person can just move on to Sony and MS stuff easily. Likely the latter, but you never know.
Its whatever to me. I just find it ignorant people always ask for gender options but when you say something about race, or disabilities or whatever people go mute and zip their mouths.Gender in games is a hotter topic than race in games, yes. White straight men have a vested interest in women. Mothers, daughters, wives, would-be lovers, etc. It makes closing those gaps more of an immediate interest than gaps with racial minorities, yes.
Idk. If it goes femlink half of me wants just one link that is female for the game and half of me would want a character creator with at least skin tone options as well as sex.
Come on, people. Stop falling for that.It's likely the latter which is wet I didn't link it lol.
So, any chance the NX having both x86 and ARM is Possible? The ARM part perhaps being the handheld built into the console unit?
You know, link has been a teenager, a ten year old, a wolf and even had pink hair once, but having a female or hispanic incarnation would just be too much. You're right.Honestly Nintendo are hateful against any group they don't allow you to play as in Zelda. They should just make Link a creatable character to avoid offending any groups. My Link would be a disabled, Hispanic, transgendered vegan Women. The nerve of them forcing us to play as a boy, it's clearly a plot to be keep dem wimins down. Every single iconic character in any medium should have a female alternative with her own TV series, book and video game.
No please no more! :'(
Yep. It is an awkward silence.Its whatever to me. I just find it ignorant people always ask for gender options but when you say something about race, or disabilities or whatever people go mute and zip their mouths.
Can anyone point me into the direction of Thraktor's posts where he estimates the best candidates for the NX hardware?
.I don't know how anybody would expect an NX home console released this year to have any more than 30% or so more CPU performance than PS4/XBO, let alone getting anywhere near a 125W desktop CPU.
Let's run through the different options Nintendo have open to them for a CPU for a home console releasing this year:
- x86 ISA -
Advantages:
- Large ecosystem of software, compilers, etc., etc.
- Several options which hit performance required for home console
Disadvantages:
- Only two vendors. If they want to create an NX successor with binary BC then Intel and AMD are their only options (unless VIA suddenly starts competing on performance)
- No options which hit energy efficiency required for handheld, which means using two different ISAs for the two devices, which means added cost in tools/OS/etc. development
- No binary-level BC with Wii U
Intel x86 cores:
Advantages:
- Higher end cores hit performance required for home console
Disadvantages:
- Likely more expensive than any other option
- No options which hit energy efficiency required for handheld
Synthesizable: No
Can be fabbed on-die with the GPU: No (unless they're crazy enough to use Intel IGP for a game console)
Broadwell, Skylake, etc.
Advantages:
- Probably the highest per-thread performance within a console CPU TDP
- Could be fabbed on 14nm for a 2016 launch
Disadvantages:
- Expensive
- Large die area
- See general Intel and x86 disadvantages above
Airmont (Atom)
Advantages:
- Small die area
- Low power consumption
Disadvantages:
- Lower performance per clock than either Puma or A72
AMD x86 cores:
Advantages:
- Plausible cores at least match performance required for home console (as they're already used in PS4/XBO)
- Should be cheaper than comparable Intel cores
- Nintendo have a longstanding relationship with AMD
Disadvantages:
- No options which hit energy efficiency required for handheld
Synthesizable: No
Can be fabbed on-die with the GPU: Yes (but only AMD GPUs)
Puma
Advantages:
- Would slightly outperform Jaguar cores used in PS4 and XBO
- AMD have ample expertise with Puma-based APUs
- Relatively small die area
Disadvantages:
- AMD aren't developing any x86 follow-ups to Puma, making the design of NX2 more difficult
- Likely lower performance than ARM A72 (which is one of the reasons AMD has dropped future development in favour of custom ARM cores)
Excavator
Advantages:
- Better performance per thread than Puma at high TDPs
Disadvantages:
- Power consumption required to get that performance is far, far beyond what's feasible in a console
- Large die area
- Even given the power consumption, performance per thread isn't that good
Zen
Advantages:
- Substantially better performance per thread than Puma
- Should provide high performance per thread even at console-level TDP
Disadvantages:
- Only available on 14nm, which means it's unlikely to be feasible for a 2016 console
- Probably a relatively large die area
- ARMv8 ISA -
Advantages:
- Large ecosystem of software, compilers, etc., etc.
- Several options which hit performance required for home console
- Several options which hit efficiency required for handheld
- Nintendo have a long history of ARM-based devices
- A large number of vendors developing binary-compatible cores across the performance spectrum
Disadvantages:
- Of the available cores, none quite hit the performance of high-end x86 or Power ISA cores
- No binary-level BC with Wii U
ARM in-house cores:
Advantages:
- Can be synthesised on-die with pretty much any GPU architecture
- Higher-end cores hit performance required for home console
- AMD have shown they're happy to work with reference ARM designs
- Relatively cheap
- Nintendo have already designed several SoCs with ARM's in-house cores
Disadvantages:
- No options which quite hit per-thread performance of Skylake/Zen
Synthesizable: Yes
Can be fabbed on-die with the GPU: Yes
A72
Advantages:
- Should moderately exceed performance of Jaguar on 28nm
- Relatively small die area
- See general ARM advantages above
Disadvantages:
- Not quite the per-thread performance of Skylake/Zen
A53
Advantages:
- Very energy efficient
- Tiny die area
- Could use exactly the same core on the handheld
Disadvantages:
- Doesn't have the per-thread performance necessary for a home console
AMD ARM cores:
K12
Advantages:
- Should exceed performance of Jaguar by a significant margin
- Nintendo have a longstanding relationship with AMD
Disadvantages:
- Won't be ready until 2017
Synthesizable: No
Can be fabbed on-die with the GPU: Yes (but only AMD GPUs)
Nvidia ARM cores:
Denver
Advantages:
- Probably exceeds the performance of Jaguar
- Could be integrated in a single die with Nvidia's GPU architecture
Disadvantages:
- Inconsistent benchmarks point to potential issues with dynamic recompilation to internal instruction set
- Nintendo may not have the best relationship with Nvidia, as the 3DS was apparently initially due to use a Tegra SoC, which was then dropped in favour of a custom chip with Pica graphics
Synthesizable: No
Can be fabbed on-die with the GPU: Yes (but only Nvidia GPUs)
Other ARM cores (Qualcomm, Samsung, etc.)
Advantages:
- Some offer performance exceeding ARM reference designs
- Some can be fabbed with synthesizable GPUs (eg Mali, PowerVR, etc.) on the same die
Disadvantages:
- Can't be fabbed on-die with AMD or Nvidia desktop-class GPUs
Synthesizable: No (in general)
Can be fabbed on-die with the GPU: Yes
- Power ISA -
Advantages:
- Nintendo have ample experience with Power ISA
- Could provide binary-level BC with Wii U
- Cores are available which hit performance required for home console (and then some!)
Disadvantages
- No options which hit energy efficiency required for handheld
- Only one vendor actively working on Power cores, and they're not exactly the kind of mid-range cores you'd use in a games console
- No options to fab on the same die as GPU
IBM Power cores:
Advantages:
- Nintendo have a long history of working with IBM
- IBM have been putting out chips on 22nm for a while now
Disadvantages:
- See general Power ISA disadvantages above
Synthesizable: No
Can be fabbed on-die with the GPU: No
POWER8
Advantages:
- Massively exceeds performance required for home console
Disadvantages:
- Enormous die area, far too large for a console CPU
- Very high TPD, far too high for a console CPU
- Lot of redundant functionality that's a waste for a console CPU
PowerPC A2
Advantages:
- Should hit performance levels required for a home console
- Relatively small die area
- Relatively power efficient (particularly on 22nm)
- Lots of floating point/SIMD performance
Disadvantages:
- Excessive floating point performance (game consoles don't need an exclusively 64-bit FP pipeline)
- Probably not that great in non-floating point tasks
- While it could technically provide BC with Wii U code, it's a very different architecture to Espresso, so unlikely to be able to run Wii U code at full speed
PowerPC 750
Advantages:
- Same architecture as used in Wii U, so easy and reliable BC
- Small die area
- Relatively energy efficient
Disadvantages:
- A 32-bit core, so system RAM would be limited to 4GB
- Doesn't hit performance levels of Jaguar
- No successors in development, so just pushing the can down the road
- MIPS ISA -
Advantages:
- Em, easier N64 BC perhaps?
Disadvantages:
- More than are worth going into here
Now, I could go further down along the list into obscure ISAs like RISC-V, but we've more than covered every realistic option open to Nintendo.
Based on the above, I think it's safe to rule out all Power ISA cores, as Wii U binary-compatibility can't be worth than much to Nintendo. I think we can also rule out Intel's offerings as well, both due to cost of the chips themselves, and the inability to fab on a single die with the GPU. Similarly I'd rule out all non-reference ARM cores, as they're the only ones which could be included on an SoC with an AMD GPU (which has to be by far the most likely GPU option). Then Excavator can be ruled out for heat and die area, the same reasons Sony and MS ruled out its predecessors, and 14nm is very unlikely to feasible this year, ruling out Zen.
So, we (or more accurately Nintendo) are basically reduced to two options: Puma or A72. Judging by single-core Geekbench 3 32 bit benchmarks (which are unfortunately all I have to work with for both, even enough it will be affected by things like memory configurations), Puma provides about 10% performance per clock boost over Jaguar, and should be able to clock a bit higher in the same thermal envelope (although it's hard to say by how much). At 2GHz, you could expect about a 25% boost over XBO's CPU, for the same number of cores.
The A72 hits 45% higher single-core Geekbench score per clock than Jaguar, and should clock a bit higher as well (they're hitting 1.8GHz in 28nm phone SoCs, so in a console environment we could assume 2GHz at least). A 2GHz 8 core A72 with two cores reserved for the OS would then give developers about 40% more to work with than they have on XBO. (Again this is just on the basis of this one benchmark).
If Nintendo want more performance than that (and given their history, I would be very surprised if they did), then more cores would be pretty much their only answer, although such a route isn't without its difficulties, as developers may struggle to adequately parallelise their code to make proper use of such a CPU.
You know, link has been a teenager, a ten year old, a wolf and even had pink hair once, but having a female or hispanic incarnation would just be too much. You're right.
Hey, that's a pretty good writeup on the available CPU options and I totally missed it. Gaffers should do good to read it. Props to Thraktor.I don't know how anybody would expect an NX home console released this year to have any more than 30% or so more CPU performance than PS4/XBO, let alone getting anywhere near a 125W desktop CPU.
<snip>
I get a mighty strong feeling that these leakers are lurking on these forums looking at this thread for reactions to thier posts so they can follow up with more stuff to get more reactions.
The UE4 guy is definitely rehashing rumors nd ideas he's reading in this thread.
If that doesn't scream "doing it for the attention" I don't know what does.
Nothing :'( we got off topic and I'm a part of the problem :'( :'( :'( Lets just read some more bullshit reddit rumors and move on. On the bright side I'm really enjoying Thrakotrs post.What does Link's gender have anything to do with Reddit NX leaks?
What does Link's gender have anything to do with Reddit NX leaks?
I have to say that the chances a 3D Mario gets revealed that looks better than the new Ratchet and Clank makes me very excited.
Come on E3!!!!!!!
I'll be honest, after 3D World I'm not very optimistic. Ratchet PS4 is a VERY high bar.
Now if they made 3D Mario NX with the same scale that they're making Zelda U in, THAT has a lot of potential to indeed surpass Ratchet PS4.
You don't believe Nintendo could choice the cheaper solution for it's hardware? Personally I don't believe this hardware will be on par or slightly more powerful of the ps4 knowing the Nintendo philosophy and I can't believe every time Nintendo keeps something so secretly, people still presume the best possible specs when the past speak clearly for otherwise. I mean, I will be very happy if the hardware will be more powerful of the ps4 but they can realize easily an optimal hardware without exceed the Sony platform. I don't see them realize the best hardware possible but more to lean to the most cheaper solution with the optimal specs and I really doubt could overtake the ps4 if they want sell it at the lower price point possible.x86 is a catch all for the architecture x86 or x86_64, also more commonly known as 32-bit and 64-bit.
PS4 and Xbox One used the same CPU, AMD Jaguar and use x86_64 architecture
I personally still don't believe the reddit rumor as it could lock Nintendo into that line of processors when they could go with the Cortex-A72 ARM processor which exceeds the Jaguars by a good margin and allows both their handheld and home console to be on the same architecture.
You don't believe Nintendo could choice the cheaper solution for it's hardware? Personally I don't believe this hardware will be on par or slightly more powerful of the ps4 knowing the Nintendo philosophy and I can't believe every time Nintendo keeps something so secretly, people still presume so higher specs when the past speak clearly. I mean, I will be very happy if the hardware will be more powerful of the ps4 but they center realize an optimal hardware without exceed the Sony platform. I don't see them realize the best hardware possible but more the most cheaper with optimal specs and I really doubt could overtake the ps4 if they prioritize the cheaper solution.
Yeah I remember tons of reliable rumour before the Wii U announce. I could wrong but it's not ended how a lot of people presume at the time. We don't even know what exactly will be this NX platform and yet the common though seems the best scenario possible. Honestly I don't think NX will be a normal platform. I more inclined to think it will be a sort of tablet (3DS it's gone) and hardly a tablet could overtake the actual console. Of course maybe CPU could be even better but gpu? By the way, I wait to see what this platform exactly should be, because for now there is too much optimistic presumption in the air.Well our only reliable source on the CPU is LCGeek and they also don't know the architecture. They did say it was better than the Xbox One and PS4 and noticeable.
There is really no other option. There is no in between for PS4 and Xbox One and even I expect parity. They cannot go weaker because there's no room to go weaker and more newer tech has matured and gotten cheaper in these last 3 years. Anything can beat those crappy Jaguars.
Yeah I remember tons of reliable rumour before the Wii U announce. We don't even know what exactly will be this NX platform and yet people presume it will be a standard platform. Honestly I don't think NX will be a normal platform. I more inclined to think it will be a sort of tablet (3DS it's gone) and hardly a tablet could overtake the actual console. Of course CPU could be even better but gpu? I wait to see what this platform should be, because for now I'm very skeptical to the standard console scenario and I'm very cynic to the real final specs of this thing.
I thought Emily's twitter deactivated.
Haven't seen her online in forever.
Yeah I remember tons of reliable rumour before the Wii U announce. We don't even know what exactly will be this NX platform and yet people presume it will be a standard platform. Honestly I don't think NX will be a normal platform. I more inclined to think it will be a sort of tablet (3DS it's gone) and hardly a tablet could overtake the actual console. Of course CPU could be even better but gpu? I wait to see what this platform should be, because for now I'm very skeptical to the standard console scenario and I'm very cynic to the real final specs of this thing.
I cannot stress enough how bullshit the idea of back porting Android features to a previous version of the OS is.
You know, link has been a teenager, a ten year old, a wolf and even had pink hair once, but having a female or hispanic incarnation would just be too much. You're right.
I'll be honest, after 3D World I'm not very optimistic. Ratchet PS4 is a VERY high bar.
Now if they made 3D Mario NX with the same scale that they're making Zelda U in, THAT has a lot of potential to indeed surpass Ratchet PS4.
On the other hand I'm can't say I'm not excited to see what the NX's horsepower could do when it's focusing all its power on rendering the small, compact levels of a Galaxy/3D World/Captain Toad type game.
Huh, look at this, Monolith (western) has a QA job post, and it says:
https://careers.timewarner.com/tgwebhost/jobdetails.aspx?partnerid=391&siteid=36&jobid=752955
This was found by Reddit:
https://www.reddit.com/r/NintendoNX/comments/4dtwz9/monolith_productions_is_possibly_making_a_game/
Now only two possibilities here; they're working on NX, or they're happy with Nintendo lot check experience so that the person can just move on to Sony and MS stuff easily. Likely the latter, but you never know.
That is a link to a job at Time Warner's Monolith(Productions) not Nintendo's Monolith(Soft).
I do actually hope we get to see more Dragon Quest 11 at some point. And hopefully one day a localization! It was announced for PS4, NX and 3DS and I want to play it sometime soon!
Reddit certainly has gone crazy with NX rumors.