CornBurrito
Member
I think by "locations aren't spoilers" he obviously means don't get mad when someone says there's a jungle in The Jungle Book, or a forest level in Dark Souls.
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The Conversation-killing menace that is Spoilerphobia might finally be on the decline
- Thread starter Bobby Roberts
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I think by "locations aren't spoilers" he obviously means don't get mad when someone says there's a jungle in The Jungle Book, or a forest level in Dark Souls.
Steve Youngblood
Member
No. But I find this to be a weird takeaway. I made that argument to suggest that knowing beforehand what happens shouldn't automatically ruin the experience of a good story. I wasn't really making any assertions at all about the implications of ruining a bad story. I'm not at all clear on why you responded as though I was arguing in favor of spoiling bad narratives.
DryEyeRelief
Member
I'm gonna ask the obvious
What do their intentions after completing the game have anything to do with their first playthrough?
Because the sentiment is exactly the same? Telling someone "you're going to enjoy media A just the same even if you know everything ahead of time" is the same as telling someone "you're going to hate media B just the same if you know everything ahead of time."
The guy who told me about Heavy Rain wasn't malicious. He actually thought he was doing me a favor because he decided for me that the game wasn't worth playing.
Steve Youngblood
Member
This has nothing to do with what I'm talking about.
Edit: To expound on that a little more, what I mean is that my argument was that the craft of trying to tell a good story deserves more respect than what can be laid out in a brief summation. Further, a game also has going for it that gameplay should really need to be experienced and not just described to appreciate. The point I was attempting to articulate was that if something is described as good, it should still be a joy to experience how the story is told and not just the bullet point summation. And even if it's presented as something bad and not worth your time, if you're interested in it isn't it worth taking a look for yourself and being your own judge? Maybe the person who spoiled Heavy Rain for you just didn't "get it" and it would have clicked with you more?
That's what I'm getting at.
brianjones
Member
because its fun?
this is such a weird mindset to me
sharing surprise with other people experiencing something for the first time is also great.. some people must be drips to watch stuff with.. everyone gotta be a know-it-all
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Being surprised is fun, but the degree to which that fun makes up the whole worth of the entertainment in question is variable. When people are confused as to why spoilers are such a big deal that others will actively place themselves in stressful situations for months (or even years) trying to avoid them in anticipation of some upcoming movie/game/book, they're confused as to why someone would value surprise, and surprise alone, to the extent that they'd do that to themselves.
The poll seems to suggest most people are backing away from enabling that kind of thing. But it also shows that people respect the element of surprise to an extent, and feel that aspect should be protected to a reasonable degree.
The drama comes when people can't debate the reasonability in question in a very reasonable fashion, and the whole thing becomes an exercise in seeing who can erect the tallest strawmen in order to ensure they're percieved as being the most aggrieved party.
not trying to be an asshole..but I have literally no clue what you are talking about.
I think some of you should try and watch a movie, play a game, read a book or consume any form of media without knowing anything beforehand (besides basic stuff like the genre), it is truly an amazing experience. Sure sometimes you will get burned but it's well worth it.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
How do you know they don't do this, though? You can hold the opinion that spoilerphobia is an extreme sort of overreaction while simultaneously practicing a modicum of restraint in finding/discovering things about the media you're about to watch.
People who don't think spoilerphobia is a good thing aren't always spoiling themselves, either.
DryEyeRelief
Member
Steve Youngblood
Member
OK. I'm just going to be straight with you here and note that I have no idea what you're talking about and have mostly lost interest in pursuing a conversation with you.
OneEightZero
aka ThreeOneFour
I don't care about being spoiled. To me, it's less about what the spoiler is and more about experiencing HOW it happens.
DryEyeRelief
Member
If you don't want to clarify your own words thats fine with me. I think I got it right the first time.
Steve Youngblood
Member
I've clarified my argument over several posts. I don't mind you disagreeing with me, but that's not what you're doing. You're going on this bizarre tangent that I don't care about. That guy who spoiled Heavy Rain for you to save you the trouble of playing it has nothing to do at all about what I'm arguing.
My whole argument is that execution in storytelling should be regarded as equally if not more important than knowing about plot points. This has nothing to do with this weird digression you're going on about as to the intent behind why someone is spoiling a story for you. Whether the person revealing information thinks the overall work is good or bad is completely irrelevant to my argument.
M0nochromatic
Member
I do agree that the Shyamalan twists are so heavily relied upon for his stories to have impact, that it is best to avoid those, but not all narratives are in that same vein. Of course it's not cool to actively ruin people's enjoyment of media, I'd hope that's a given in this discussion.
The problem with your point, is the age of the work, and reasonable expectations. We can't put spoiler warnings over references to Shakespeare's works. We can't expect those who use "I am your father" be more careful not to talk about the movie it's from without everyone's consent.
Some kid is going to get spoiled about that one thing everyone knows happens in Final Fantasy VII Remake. It's an unavoidable fact with how memetic that knowledge is. Asking for spoilers to not happen on accident is asking people not to talk about concepts that are popular.
Spoilers are an inevitable reality due to how humans share information. It can certainly be moderated and avoided, but it won't ever go away, it's always going to be around in some form.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Oh thank god.
One thing I hate about this spoiler-phobia shit is sometimes they really take things out of context. Like, "this shit is spoilers dude!" even though said item is in the opening of the fucking show. Or like "this character is spoilers dude!" even though said character is part of the cast introduced to you early on. Like they're more concerned on what entails to be a spoiler than the actual content.
Didn't gaf had people complaining about Thanos being in GotG as a discussion, despite the fact that the character has been stated to appear in news outlets?
One thing I hate about this spoiler-phobia shit is sometimes they really take things out of context. Like, "this shit is spoilers dude!" even though said item is in the opening of the fucking show. Or like "this character is spoilers dude!" even though said character is part of the cast introduced to you early on. Like they're more concerned on what entails to be a spoiler than the actual content.
Didn't gaf had people complaining about Thanos being in GotG as a discussion, despite the fact that the character has been stated to appear in news outlets?
Glass Shark
Banned
Glad my Jungle Book example is still seeing play in this thread. I still honestly cannot believe that was a thing.
crazygambit
Member
I agree with your point. Sometimes spoilers are indeed unavoidable, but I can at least make sure they don't come from me. I've never spoiled anything for anyone ever, unless they directly ask me to (some people actually like to just know what's gonna happen, who knew? Everyone's different) and even then I make really sure they want me to. It's really not hard at all to be mindful of other people's desire, or even obsession to not be exposed to spoilers, therefore I incorporate it in my daily life as a rule.
UncleSporky
Member
Same here. Spoilers will often make me MORE excited to see how the hell that thing happens and the events leading up to it.
Often I will spoil myself on video game plots as a side effect of wanting to do as much as possible on my first playthrough, because I know that I tend to not play games a second time, and thus consult walkthroughs on the first play (not all the time, just games I want to be completionist about). And over time I've realized that I haven't had any less enjoyment from knowing those spoilers. Most of the time I just can't wait to see how it happens.
More often than not I've caught myself spending a lot of time analyzing movies as I watch them the first time, trying to predict what will happen next. I get more enjoyment when I don't have to think about all that.
What a spoiler completely ruins is the suspense. Even a good suspense thriller can be severely diminished by a few spoilers. That won't make it a movie/book bad but the experience of seeing it for the first time is severely diminished.
Steve Youngblood
Member
Yes. I understand that and have acknowledged that in a previous post. It was in that long one I made that started this weird digression.
Naughty_Doge
Member
It's ridiculous and I hope it dies as soon as possible.
On the GoT season 6 thread I was surprised a mod edited my post to spoiler tag 100% of what I said just because I happened to mention something that was shown in the fucking trailer. The worst part was that I could have left out that tiny detail and my post wouldn't have lost sense.
On the GoT season 6 thread I was surprised a mod edited my post to spoiler tag 100% of what I said just because I happened to mention something that was shown in the fucking trailer. The worst part was that I could have left out that tiny detail and my post wouldn't have lost sense.
UncleSporky
Member
I think well-shot suspense can still be suspenseful and full of tension regardless of knowing what's going to happen.
Even if you didn't know R2 was going to shut down the garbage compactor in time...really you still kinda knew they were going to make it out. But the scene was put together well and the acting and such was all on point to evoke the same feelings of tension every time you see it.
The main thing that gets ruined is for example a video game where you are supposed to be on your toes and scared the while time but you know there are no enemies in this area so you can rest easy.
Even if you didn't know R2 was going to shut down the garbage compactor in time...really you still kinda knew they were going to make it out. But the scene was put together well and the acting and such was all on point to evoke the same feelings of tension every time you see it.
The main thing that gets ruined is for example a video game where you are supposed to be on your toes and scared the while time but you know there are no enemies in this area so you can rest easy.
PreFire
Member
Lol
guilty. I hate to be spoiled, even by the simplest things. I have the knack of LOOKING for a particular scene or character or event whenever I'm told beforehand or like an idiot, click a black bar on neogaf knowing I shouldn't. When I'm looking for that particular thing, it ruins my entire experience.
Now, I'm not CRAZY like SOME people are about spoilers.. I'll watch every trailer (unless there's a mass crowd saying it's too spoilerific) , behind the scenes, speculations, enter and read threads and topics (before the movie, game or show releases) about whatever it is I'm trying to avoid spoilers for. I'd never go on a "media blackout"
I also love watching previews. It's up to the showrunners not to put shit that spoils character reveals or stuff like that, and most of them do.. Sometimes lol
Shit I don't like: Topics with spoilerish thread titles. Not everyone goes on day-one to the movies, so when you don't like a certain thing about a movie, like (BvS "spoiler?") Batman
and make a topic eluding to that when the movie is still in the theatres? That's just fucked up.
Trailers with the best jokes from the movie in it
or that show way too much. If you watched the trailers for
, you saw the fucking movie. It's just summarized in the trailer.
To be honest, Im surprised by some of those percentages on the charts. Some people said "it should never be discussed" lmfao
I've never seen ANY Star Wars movie, I probably will one day, but I wouldn't give two shits about any spoiler for that franchise.
is a pop culture reference, and I'm sure it was a huge reveal for anyone who saw that movie without knowing it. Point is, anything 2 years and older should have no restrictions when it comes to spoilers.
If you haven't watched a movie, or show, or played a game that's been out for 2 years, then you shouldn't care about the spoilers in those movies, shows or games. I don't care how busy you are.
On a side note, I have a friend who tapes his sports games and will go nuts if someone tells him if the team won or lost before he gets home from work to watch them. It's hilarious when there are bars full of people cheering or booing.. He covers his ears lol. I don't understand this, I can't be excited over a game I already know happened.
guilty. I hate to be spoiled, even by the simplest things. I have the knack of LOOKING for a particular scene or character or event whenever I'm told beforehand or like an idiot, click a black bar on neogaf knowing I shouldn't. When I'm looking for that particular thing, it ruins my entire experience.
Now, I'm not CRAZY like SOME people are about spoilers.. I'll watch every trailer (unless there's a mass crowd saying it's too spoilerific) , behind the scenes, speculations, enter and read threads and topics (before the movie, game or show releases) about whatever it is I'm trying to avoid spoilers for. I'd never go on a "media blackout"
I also love watching previews. It's up to the showrunners not to put shit that spoils character reveals or stuff like that, and most of them do.. Sometimes lol
Shit I don't like: Topics with spoilerish thread titles. Not everyone goes on day-one to the movies, so when you don't like a certain thing about a movie, like (BvS "spoiler?") Batman
murdering people
Trailers with the best jokes from the movie in it
Deadpool
The Martian
To be honest, Im surprised by some of those percentages on the charts. Some people said "it should never be discussed" lmfao
I've never seen ANY Star Wars movie, I probably will one day, but I wouldn't give two shits about any spoiler for that franchise.
"Luke, I am your father"
If you haven't watched a movie, or show, or played a game that's been out for 2 years, then you shouldn't care about the spoilers in those movies, shows or games. I don't care how busy you are.
On a side note, I have a friend who tapes his sports games and will go nuts if someone tells him if the team won or lost before he gets home from work to watch them. It's hilarious when there are bars full of people cheering or booing.. He covers his ears lol. I don't understand this, I can't be excited over a game I already know happened.
M0nochromatic
Member
Of course and that's reasonable, but it's still possible to spoil things for people unintentionally, due to forces outside your control.
A friend liked and shared this Dark Souls 3 invasion video, and he made sure all of his friends had finished it and couldn't be spoiled on Dark Souls 3. The problem is that the music in it, is a very significant piece from a very big moment in a game called Undertale. The friend who shared it didn't know that, he just thought it was some EDM on the background of a gank. Another friend who liked the music, and also didn't know what it was from, clicked the links to the songs in the description and was spoiled as a result.
Hell that's how I've come across a lot of spoilers, just looking up good music, or reverse image searching popular characters.
I've never really been able to relate to the 'spoilers don't matter'/'i don't care how much i know' mindset. It doesn't necessarily have to ruin a movie's quality, of course, but to me it takes a little something away from the finished product and likely from what the creatives behind it intended. I'd rather not do that to myself when going to experience a movie or book for the first time.
That said, 'spoiler culture' can definitely go overboard and there's nothing wrong with pulling that back a bit.
That said, 'spoiler culture' can definitely go overboard and there's nothing wrong with pulling that back a bit.
orthodoxy1095
Banned
Someone on gaming side just said that Joel and Ellie's names are spoilers and that we should stop saying them in a thread about a TLOU2.
Spoilerphobia must die.
Spoilerphobia must die.
Imperfected
Member
Thanks, orthodoxy, now I can't play TLOU because I know the entire story.
War Peaceman
You're a big guy.
THANKS MAN, I was about to read that thread and now you've gone and spoiled it for me.
benjipwns
Banned
Welp, now I've been spoiled that there's a The Last of Us 2 related thread on gaming side. Thanks for spoiling the possibility that a hit game might get a sequel.
BronsonLee
Member
If you guys want we can shoot orthodoxy right now
There's a GAF thread where someone spoiled that Joel and Ellie really are the last of us in the OP.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
I don't like it how people still put spoilers on a spoiler thread
Thinking back, I feel like LOST was where the whole spoiler obsession on the internet started. There was also some of that with the Star Wars prequels as well.
One of the big problems I have with excessive spoilerphobia is that it essentially idolizes pulpy "twists" and surprises in stories above things like themes, characterization, imagery, etc. Sure, there's nothing necessarily wrong with story twists, but to obsess excessively over the facts of the plot and the initial sensory experience is missing the forest for the trees. No great story has ever been great solely because of an unpredictable plot.
I mean, look at Oedipus Rex. That shit is like the Ancient Greece Game of Thrones, with the mother of all plot twists. And yet that very twist became so memetic that it's spoiled by a psychological theory. If the twist was all that mattered, people wouldn't still study Oedipus Rex in school. Who needs thematic depth and complex dramatic devices when you have PLOT TWISTS.
One of the big problems I have with excessive spoilerphobia is that it essentially idolizes pulpy "twists" and surprises in stories above things like themes, characterization, imagery, etc. Sure, there's nothing necessarily wrong with story twists, but to obsess excessively over the facts of the plot and the initial sensory experience is missing the forest for the trees. No great story has ever been great solely because of an unpredictable plot.
I mean, look at Oedipus Rex. That shit is like the Ancient Greece Game of Thrones, with the mother of all plot twists. And yet that very twist became so memetic that it's spoiled by a psychological theory. If the twist was all that mattered, people wouldn't still study Oedipus Rex in school. Who needs thematic depth and complex dramatic devices when you have PLOT TWISTS.
ThoughtsOfSpeaking
Banned
What pisses me off about spoiler culture is how closely related it is to hype culture.
Even here, I've people kick off at any kind of discussion on a game that doesn't revolve around how hyped they are for its release.
Even here, I've people kick off at any kind of discussion on a game that doesn't revolve around how hyped they are for its release.
benjipwns
Banned
The plot twists people remember are the ones that are well setup and executed. M. Night and Lost's style of out of nowhere HOLY CRAP BUT WHATEVER and forgotten has been mocked for years now.
Whereas something like the Usual Suspects is parodied and in common culture, but the impact of the revelation in the story isn't eliminated by knowing it before hand.
Although there are better examples, where clues and everything else have been telegraphed throughout films/games/comics/tv shows/etc. from the start and then the "REVEAL" is really just them all coming together.
Mr. Robot recently did both. Where the twists the first time through (until the last, and most obvious one) were fun. But then if you rewatch they're all laid out from the start in what seemed like innocent dialogue or the fact that certain characters are always blocked the same way, etc.
Whereas something like the Usual Suspects is parodied and in common culture, but the impact of the revelation in the story isn't eliminated by knowing it before hand.
Although there are better examples, where clues and everything else have been telegraphed throughout films/games/comics/tv shows/etc. from the start and then the "REVEAL" is really just them all coming together.
Mr. Robot recently did both. Where the twists the first time through (until the last, and most obvious one) were fun. But then if you rewatch they're all laid out from the start in what seemed like innocent dialogue or the fact that certain characters are always blocked the same way, etc.
orthodoxy1095
Banned
Alternatively guys, we can put Bronson in a potato sack and throw him in the ocean.
BronsonLee
Member
That treatment is reserved for Busty and goddamnit you know it
CornBurrito
Member
poppabk
Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
The usual suspects twist, the actual twist not the Keyser soze one, is really one you don't want spoiled upfront. A flawed narrator in a movie is fairly infrequent and knowing you aren't seeing what 'actually' happened going in is likely to spoil the whole movie. It's something you have to find out at the end of your first viewing.
Good post, my views exactly but far more eloquently stated.
Reminder that Gaming side makes spoiler threads for fucking E3, fucking press conferences and even conventions.
Grizzlyjin
Supersonic, idiotic, disconnecting, not respecting, who would really ever wanna go and top that
That is fucking ridiculous. It's a trade show. What's next, spoiler threads for political debates? News is news.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
People thought official pokemon reveals are spoilers. Yes there are people like that.
freenudemacusers
Member
Oh yeah I forgot about that. The worst.
While I agree that the definition of spoiler could become more agreed between everyone, as someone who lives in a country where Game of Thrones is the only series that I can watch at the same time than people on USA watch and besides a few exceptions, most movies start here almost a month after started on USA .... I have to be against spoilers because I will the be one fucked otherwise =P
"Spoilers free after X time" forget that not everything appears oficialy on every side of the earth at the same time. Not rare for books to take years, Movies to take months and tv show episodes to take days or even weeks to get here. "you will be spoiled if you don't watch this as soon as I can" not only is some kind of weird victim blaming (priorities, anyone ?) but forget that not eveyone lives in the Mecca of pop culture
"Spoilers free after X time" forget that not everything appears oficialy on every side of the earth at the same time. Not rare for books to take years, Movies to take months and tv show episodes to take days or even weeks to get here. "you will be spoiled if you don't watch this as soon as I can" not only is some kind of weird victim blaming (priorities, anyone ?) but forget that not eveyone lives in the Mecca of pop culture
Both sides has never been an argument I find compelling but in the spoiler debate it seems to really fit. Having people treat you like a monster for accidently spoiling something is a fucking shitty feeling, and yet on the other side it's not that difficult to keep from being a constant drip of spoilers. I have friends who exist on both polls and it's a nightmare to witness their discussions. People are walking on egg shells for the stupidest shit and others lack a filter at all.
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