gundamkyoukai
Member
Well consoles have already change a fair amount over the gens or try to .
This is just the latest one but this time it may end up being the new standard .
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Sony confirms PS4 Neo, [Cites smartphone cycle, waiting until enough games post E3]
- Thread starter Thomper
- Start date
Well consoles have already change a fair amount over the gens or try to .
This is just the latest one but this time it may end up being the new standard .
There's no compulsion to upgrade.
It's merely an optional product, aimed at those in the market for a premium version of the PS4.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
There is no, "need".
GhostTrick
Banned
There's a "might" as "may" need to upgrade. There's no need but for some people it may be a need. It's not merely an optional product, it's a shift in business model.
StrongBlackVine
Banned
Yes it is completely optional. If you are content with your current PS4 there is no need to upgrade.
AyaisMUsikWhore
Member
Exactly. Not exactly sure why this is a concept that cannot be understood. On closed platforms, no one is losing especially when the core architectures are the same.
GhostTrick
Banned
That's not my point though. I'm not saying you need to upgrade, I'm saying it's not a side product or something meaningless.
It's not about Sony saying "Well, hardcore gamers might want something more powerful so let's just release this" but it's more about the introduction of incremental upgrades mid generation.
PLASTICA-MAN
Member
It will. That is something evident. Otherwise why too much emphasis on 4K then?
Even the Xbox Mini which doesn't have an upgraded hardware (same Xbox One hardware) will have an UHD Bluray Player.
The question that must be asked whether Sony will pack a 2 TB HDD for Neo since games will be mostly bigger in size due to higher res textures and higher resolution etc.
UnwrittenZero
Member
I just hope for a better seta port so ssd drives can scream if the person wanted to upgrade the drive. That's more important imo.
TLZ
Banned
$600? Make that 10TF and I'm sold.
Well in theory, you're right. I will still wait to see how the games perform on vanilla ps4 from the release of Neo before saying there is no need.
is that confirmed?
TLZ
Banned
$599 ?!
Are you guys crazy?
It's not a problem this time, because if you don't like it you can simply get the base PS4 model for cheaper. Solved. Plays same games and still looks good. Don't like? Want more power? Pay more money.
'Cites' doesn't mean 'copy' it means 'use as an example' which is whay House did.
In using it as an example it also doesn't necessarily follow that it will copy that example, House was using it as an example business case (given that the FT is a business newspaper) of why a new model of console releases might work.
I.e. it doesn't mean Sony are going to be releasing new hardware every 12 months, only that they are trying to change the 'traditional' 5-6 year cycle.
This thread tho...Thuway makes some piece of completely unsubstantiated ass talk and suddenly Sony are pushing an upclocked Jag+whatever GPU for $499, there's a $599 Zen-based plan-B and PSVR still doesn't run on PS4 well, and fuck it why don't we all spend twice as much on a PC, hey?
SweetJohnnyCage
Member
I don't want iterative consoles. Smart phones are different because you literally use them all day every day and get bored of them. Appa don't influence my phone purchases, the hardware does. Games influence my console purchases. One market trend shouldn't influence another in this case.
PLASTICA-MAN
Member
I am relying on the leaks of course.
PS4 Neo is already confirmed. Other leaks are sitting, waiting to be confirmed in few hours.
Keihart
Member
On the bright side, short half assed cycles will be a pretty meaningful if VR takes off with PSVR.
Since its pretty early on VR headsets the tech will leap pretty fast and a machine that its cheaper and easier to use than a VR PC (with a comparable experience) will be a pretty big thing. I'd like to think that Sony is chasing VR instead of hardware money, it makes a lot more sense to me.
Since its pretty early on VR headsets the tech will leap pretty fast and a machine that its cheaper and easier to use than a VR PC (with a comparable experience) will be a pretty big thing. I'd like to think that Sony is chasing VR instead of hardware money, it makes a lot more sense to me.
-ImaginaryInsider
Member
Agreed, even with the Neo being a higher end more niche product variation, I can't see them going $599 again.
The Neo doesn't need to be as powerful as Scorpio, being reasonably close with a good price and no immediate competition feels like a sounder strategy.
Given I seem to be upgrading phones every 3-4 I would. But then with phones I have very little reason to upgrade aside from it breaking or OS/security updates stopping.
With consoles/tablets I'm a much more enthusiastic upgrader. With PC the expense slows me down (hence I'm still using a 2500k/AMD 7870 base computer). With PC I'm slow enough that almost every update needs a full motherboard/ram/cpu/gpu update, and that puts me off more. Which is why I haven't moved off the 2500k. Hopefully just upgrading my GPU to a RX480 will be enough for a bit longer.
autoduelist
Member
You weren't asking me, but for me, PC isn't even a consideration. I know PCs are better. Heck, I know you can generally get a better PC at the launch of a new gen, let alone 4 or 8 years later. It's a non-issue, though. I used to be a PC gamer, still have steam, but moved to console for convenience and absolutely appreciate that any game I buy on the the shelf 'just works', and I know it's optimized [give or take] to the hardware.
It's not our fault if you can't understand the console mindset. It exists. I have it. I don't really care if you can't identify with it. I used to spend countless hours customizing my PC experience [from game optimization and mods to OS hacks and whatnot]. Been there, done that. Now I just want my gaming experience to be absolutely plug and play. It's not so much that I want 'everybody the same' as it is that in order for it to be absolutely plug and play, by definition 'everybody is the same' within a relatively small window of options. You're looking at it from the outside in and turning the issue on it's head to try to ridicule it, but really those 'issues' are just the result of the underlying benefits of console gaming.
EatinOlives
Member
Faster console iterations sounds terrible for my wallet and highly doubt i'd be upgrading them any sooner than ~6 years. On the other hand, the idea of completely changing the architecture and forcing devs to make significant effort in switching to the next platform every single gen did always sound like a lot of wasted effort. If this eliminates the dumb "launch window" thing where we're flooded with pretty but short/shallow games then there's a good silver lining.
I'll have to wait and see. I barely use my consoles as it is, not really interested in spending even more on them considering I spend most of my gaming time on PC anyway. Given the choice I'd be going for a GTX 1070 sooner than a new console iteration.
I'll have to wait and see. I barely use my consoles as it is, not really interested in spending even more on them considering I spend most of my gaming time on PC anyway. Given the choice I'd be going for a GTX 1070 sooner than a new console iteration.
Why are you so sure that it will feature a bd uhd player ? The cheapest player on the market is 499 right now. And basically you want Sony to release a more powerful ps4 at that price with this type of player and a 2TB hdd whereas the standard ps4 is still 349 with à 500gb hdd. That is very optimistic.
Cheeseman Battitude
Member
But it's supposed to be sold alongside the PS4 for its life cycle, so the original PS4 isn't going anyhere and this won't be problem.
I don't believe that for a second, but that's what the OP says.
Bitch Pudding
Member
I don't think so. At some point in the future, Neo will have its own successor, which it will be sold alongside to (it then becomes the cheap entry solution). At that point Sony is going to stop selling - and supporting - vanilla PS4.
duhmetree
Member
http://vrworld.com/2016/05/11/amd-confirms-sony-playstation-neo-based-zen-polaris/
Haven't seen this posted before. Is this a reputable site?
I'm still using an iPad 2 and feel no need to upgrade to whatever the latest model is.
Cheeseman Battitude
Member
I suppose it could be read two ways. Either the original PS4's life cycle, so that eventually they will stop making and selling the original PS4 or the life cycle of the PS4 in general, so that by the end of the generation, the original PS4 and Neo are still on sale together.
yurinka
Member
Yes, it's a concern for many enthusiast gamers, the hardcore that House mentioned. But like the ones who get high-end PCs, even if they are vocal in gaming forums or in the comments of gaming websites they are a minority of the market, as we can see in the Steam Spy numbers.
I think normal people will go to Best-Buy or similar and will be told: you have the PS4 and the high-end PS4, that is more expensive because adds 4K media support and runs the same games but slightly better visuals and performance. And they will decide without getting mad.
Most current PS4 users (casuals, mainstream) won't notice that a more powerful PS4 Neo existed (they may think it's a Slim or Elite version) or won't care about the extra horsepower.
Well, Neo would release around 3 years after the normal PS4. If you add another 3/4 years it would be time to go next gen and release a PS5 that may be compatible with PS4 games for full BC but would feature exclusive games that would take advantage of the extra horsepower.
I see Neo as a mid-gen update, like a Slim but on steroids. The next update would be a next gen console. I think it would be too complicated -specially for marketing- to have a 3 PS4 SKUs with different performance and features.
PLASTICA-MAN
Member
A 4K console with no UHD Bluray Player? Ok XD NVM.
The first rumours already stated that it will include an UHD Bluray Player while many didn't expect it to be more powerful, for them it was just a 4K media only PS4. But now we got the opposite case of doubts?
PS3 at that time costed less than standalone Bluray Players accepting only Bluray Profile 1.0 while the PS3 got updated to BD profile 1.1 then to 2.0 until it got the 3D Bluray player update while the first Bluray players which were more expensive than the PS3 were suck at Bluray Profile 1.0.
Brad Grenz
Member
I don't think it's actually that far fetched, but by 2020 it's not clear that memory hierarchy will resemble today's paradigm. Intel's 3D Point memory could change the way things are tiered since it's non-volatile storage with large densities that's nearly as fast as RAM. So you may want lots of that in lieu of a hard drive/SSD or lots or memory
I think they're misusing the term "binaries" here. It's probably more accurate to say code paths or settings. You don't talk about a PC game needing different GPU binaries for a 7850 versus an R290.
It'll be optional for now... The key difference is that what works for mobile devices won't work for gaming consoles because the market is so much smaller. I want to have faith that Sony won't be underhanded or exploitative, but I could see the "optional" thing as a Trojan Horse with the PS4 before mandatory upgrades to get certain games or content next time around. It seems too good to be true that they would allow people to upgrade at their leisure for long. The attitude behind this move is indicative of this to me.
What I find confusing though is their arrogance that this PC-lite model can work. The closer it gets to becoming a PC, the more its value diminishes comparatively in virtually all ways other than some exclusive software. As much as it doesn't sound like it, I am willing to listen to what the Neo has to say, or whatever.
Based on the information at hand, I simply don't trust Sony to do the right thing. I'd be more likely to bite on MS's new console right now (because of all the positive gestures they've made since Mattrick's blunders, which gives me more faith).
PLASTICA-MAN
Member
I don't think they would use the same memory hierarchy either since the new trend will be shifting to 3D stacked memory instead. Just like how many expected more traditional increase in CPU speed which would lead to exceed the infamous 5 GHZ but we got multicore, hyperthreading and multi-tasking instead.
Well that player is $399.99 and it is dramatically marked up. Store costs for it are around $270-280. And it's just overpriced and gouging customers right from samsung because there's no reason for that thing to cost as much as it does outside of greed and they're the only show out there now besides Panasonic in other countries.
It would be more surprising if the new consoles didn't have a UHD BD-player in them at this point.
Tatsumi Oga
Banned
Most people assumed the Neo would come this year in time for PSVR right? A realistic expectation if you ask me, but now i wonder when they will lift the curtains.
-ImaginaryInsider
Member
The Neo by all accounts is tied directly to the PS4, when the PS5 comes out, both the the PS4 and the Neo will be phased out as per usual.
It's a normal console generation with the "iPhone S" dynamic added in. All the forward compatibility talk is forum speculation, the PS5 might be backwards compatible with PS4/Neo games, but past that, there appears to still be a generational divide.
There is probably another 3-4 years of strong iteration on 14nm before it settles down. The node is brand new and GPUs are coming out barely ready - the 'high end' 1080 is still half the size of the 980ti and a lot smaller than the PS4 APU. There is plenty more to come with chips getting bigger, HBM becoming more available and affordable, and the usual architectural tweaks.
This phase right now is interesting because there is so much movement so timing is absolutely critical. Release too early and you'll get the basic advantages of a die shrink, but you leave yourself open to potentially large performance increases at similar cost 6-12 months later. Neo launching this fall Vs next fall could be the difference between an overclocked jaguar+double GPU, or a zen CPU+ same/even more GPU at a similar cost
I didn't say shit about an exodus. What I'm saying is that a console trying to compete with PC in power is dumb, and that attempting to do so would result more in people going to PC (notice I didn't say every single PS4 owner) than people deciding that upgraded consoles are a better value than PC.
peanutbutterlatte
Member
What are the chances of big releases being stuttering 20fps messes that are optimised for the Neo?
I mean, more so than they are now.
I mean, more so than they are now.
It seems to have become standard practice to always push console hardware to not-quite-30fps for a lot of games no matter how much power is given. Unless it's a remaster. Unless it's the Sleeping Dogs remaster.
Not to mention I recall hearing a lot of talk about how CPU-limited the Neo will be.
Insumatposa
Member
From this article: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/d...ion-4k-neo-and-the-original-ps4-will-co-exist
The only confirmation so far is that you will play the best experience on PS4 Neo. You may get regular experience on OG PS4 or a choppy one if "that emphasis shifts to Neo".
Risk Breaker
Member
Maybe some people will find upgrading their PC a waste if they can just upgrade their consoles! Plenty of people upgraded their PCs during the end of the last gen due to oooold console hardware.
Point being, nobody knows what this might cause, if anything at all. "B-but consoles are deaaad" like the PS4 was going to be
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
True it is, but even with a quite bad start and costs that were hard to bring down, Sony was able to catch Xbox 360 in the end WW which meant that they were able to take a console with the perceived worst third party ports and drive it neck and neck if not past the competitor who launched one year earlier at a cheaper price.
GhostTrick
Banned
Maybe some people will find upgrading their PC a waste if they can just upgrade their consoles! Plenty of people upgraded their PCs during the end of the last gen due to oooold console hardware.
Point being, nobody knows what this might cause, if anything at all. "B-but consoles are deaaad" like the PS4 was going to be
You misunderstood me. I'm talking business model you're talking form factor. I never said people will stop buying consoles or consoles will disappear and PC will rise. I said the old console business model is dying and disappearing and what we see is a new business model, with incremental upgrades and disappearence of the concept of generations. But the form factor, aka the box, the hardware, remains and will likely grow with this switch of business model.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
The requirements for 4K rendering and frame rate would seem to indicate that PS4 in the 1080p should be ok... With or without a dynamic frame buffer and some other minor cutbacks.
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